The Energon Pub

why is it that in the original transformers animated movie,when prime first passes the matrix of leadership to magnus he`s not bestowed the title of prime.am i wrong in thinking that only primes can carry the matrix......nova prime.....sentinel prime.....optimus prime.....ultra magnus?

energonjunkie wrote:why is it that in the original transformers animated movie,when prime first passes the matrix of leadership to magnus he`s not bestowed the title of prime.am i wrong in thinking that only primes can carry the matrix......nova prime.....sentinel prime.....optimus prime.....ultra magnus?

I kind of figured it was a contact thing. Notice how Hot Rod grabs it first, and it reacts to him, but not when he gives it to Ultra Magnus?

Although I don't think it didn't open for Magnus on Junkion for that reason. I think then, it would only activated depending on how much they needed it. Unicron destroying Cybertron, and a Hate Plague making the universe's population tear itself apart, those are good reasons. But since Magnus was put back together with Junkion Brand Super Glue, The Matrix must have figured it would be a waste of energy.

energonjunkie wrote:why is it that in the original transformers animated movie,when prime first passes the matrix of leadership to magnus he`s not bestowed the title of prime.am i wrong in thinking that only primes can carry the matrix......nova prime.....sentinel prime.....optimus prime.....ultra magnus?

Well to begin with your mixing your comic book continuity with your cartoon continuity.

In the cartoon we never learned the names of any of the bots to carry the Matrix before Optimus Prime so its possible that none of them had the suffix "Prime" in their names.And besides Ultra Magnus was only going to be a temperaroy leader.

Also in the cartoon the Decepticon Scourge took and used the Matrix and did not change his name.

As for comic book continuity......it depends on which publisher your talking about.

I'm not sure if Optimus Prime in the IDW universe is carring The Matrix at all.

In the Marvel Universe comics not all to carry the matrix took the name Prime as part of their names.The Decepticon Thunderwing took and carries the Matrix for sometime and never changed his name and Starscream did the same.

The Dreamwave comics explained it that only a Transformer with a true "affinity" for the Matrix would be transformered by the "Matrix Flame" and be knowen as "the Prime".

As for why Ultra Magnus of the cartoon was not changed by the Matrix or why his name was not changed....I believe it was very simple.

He was not worthy.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:He was not worthy.

It's because he couldn't deal with that now.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:He was not worthy.

It's because he couldn't deal with that now.

You're looking at it backwards.


It's not "only Primes can carry the Matrix". It's "only those who carry the Matrix are Primes."


Were any of them Prime before that? Orion Pax? Hot Rod? No, they became Prime.

Dark Zarak wrote:You're looking at it backwards.


It's not "only Primes can carry the Matrix". It's "only those who carry the Matrix are Primes."


Were any of them Prime before that? Orion Pax? Hot Rod? No, they became Prime.

Agreed.

Ultra Magnus was not meant to carry the Matrix, hence he was unable to use it. And when an Autobot carries the Matrix, it changes their physical size and strength, which didnt happen to Magnus.

Shadowman wrote:I kind of figured it was a contact thing. Notice how Hot Rod grabs it first, and it reacts to him, but not when he gives it to Ultra Magnus?

I've yet to see a solid argument that contact is a factor. Sure Hot Rod touched it first, but that seems like the worst way ever to pick a new leader. Whatever fool touches the Matrix first is the new head honcho? How about whoever blinks first? Or whoever sneezes first? What about the doc-bots like Ratchet who have to attend to the various leaders? Do they become next in line by squishing the Matrix and other internals out of the way to get to the chewy center? The Matrix glowed not because it imprinted onto Hot rod, but because he had already been chosen and it recognized him. That's how destiny works, not the equivalent of licking your sister's chocolate bar so that she can't (or won't) eat it. He was called the "Chosen One" for a reason. The "touching" thing seems like a very "Publisher's Clearing House" definition of the word "chosen": "You may already have won... the Autobot Mantle!"

Shadowman wrote:It's because he couldn't deal with that now.

It's been 20 years; getting a little sick of this old chestnut. Particularly because people are entirely aware that "I can't deal with that now" was not "ooh, I'm so stressed, too much, too much", it was the more polite (and concise) way of saying: "We're about to die in a less-than-happy giant ball of intergalactic flames and you want me to stop what I'm doing to help us, you know, NOT die, and save the others, who quite frankly are most likely pancakes right now? Are you seriously freaking kidding me with this? Since we're already in the middle of not dying, how about we finish that off first, then do your thing. You know, like that old saying: pillage first, THEN burn."

Deathsanras wrote:I've yet to see a solid argument that contact is a factor. Sure Hot Rod touched it first, but that seems like the worst way ever to pick a new leader. Whatever fool touches the Matrix first is the new head honcho? How about whoever blinks first? Or whoever sneezes first? What about the doc-bots like Ratchet who have to attend to the various leaders? Do they become next in line by squishing the Matrix and other internals out of the way to get to the chewy center? The Matrix glowed not because it imprinted onto Hot rod, but because he had already been chosen and it recognized him. That's how destiny works, not the equivalent of licking your sister's chocolate bar so that she can't (or won't) eat it. Rodimus Prime was called the "Chosen One" for a reason. The "touching" thing seems like a very "Publisher's Clearing House" definition of the word "chosen": "You may already have won... the Autobot Mantle!"

I dont subscribe to the "first contact" theory ether but but its no less a valid theory then the "Chosen One" theory.

The consept of "destiny" in any fashion cant be proven to be more then a fantasy to those that chose to believe in it.

Deathsanras wrote:

Shadowman wrote:It's because he couldn't deal with that now.

It's been 20 years; getting a little sick of this old chestnut. Particularly because people are entirely aware that "I can't deal with that now" was not "ooh, I'm so stressed, too much, too much", it was the more polite (and concise) way of saying: "We're about to die in a less-than-happy giant ball of intergalactic flames and you want me to stop what I'm doing to help us, you know, NOT die, and save the others, who quite frankly are most likely pancakes right now? Are you seriously freaking kidding me with this? Since we're already in the middle of the not dying, how about we finish that off first, then do your thing. You know, like that old saying: pillage first, THEN burn."

Dont you recognize a joke when you see it???

Deathsanras wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I kind of figured it was a contact thing. Notice how Hot Rod grabs it first, and it reacts to him, but not when he gives it to Ultra Magnus?

I've yet to see a solid argument that contact is a factor. Sure Hot Rod touched it first, but that seems like the worst way ever to pick a new leader. Whatever fool touches the Matrix first is the new head honcho? How about whoever blinks first? Or whoever sneezes first? What about the doc-bots like Ratchet who have to attend to the various leaders? Do they become next in line by squishing the Matrix and other internals out of the way to get to the chewy center? The Matrix glowed not because it imprinted onto Hot rod, but because he had already been chosen and it recognized him. That's how destiny works, not the equivalent of licking your sister's chocolate bar so that she can't (or won't) eat it. He was called the "Chosen One" for a reason. The "touching" thing seems like a very "Publisher's Clearing House" definition of the word "chosen": "You may already have won... the Autobot Mantle!"

Optimus Prime died, dropped the Matrix, and the next person to touch it became the next Prime. It makes Hot Rod seem like much less of a Mary Sue, in any case.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Deathsanras wrote:

Shadowman wrote:It's because he couldn't deal with that now.

It's been 20 years; getting a little sick of this old chestnut. Particularly because people are entirely aware that "I can't deal with that now" was not "ooh, I'm so stressed, too much, too much", it was the more polite (and concise) way of saying: "We're about to die in a less-than-happy giant ball of intergalactic flames and you want me to stop what I'm doing to help us, you know, NOT die, and save the others, who quite frankly are most likely pancakes right now? Are you seriously freaking kidding me with this? Since we're already in the middle of the not dying, how about we finish that off first, then do your thing. You know, like that old saying: pillage first, THEN burn."

Dont you recognize a joke when you see it???

I guess he does not.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dont you recognize a joke when you see it???

I guess he does not.

What can you do

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Dont you recognize a joke when you see it???

I guess he does not.

What can you do

Until I get my death laser platforms into orbit? Nothing.

Shadowman wrote:
Until I get my death laser platforms into orbit? Nothing.

Hehe

As was said before, the whole Matrix = Prime thing is a comics thing. It doesn't apply to the cartoons. This is also true of those who carry the matrix and becoming Prime. Alpha Trion was also at one time leader of the Autobots, as his essense had merged with the matrix. (Prime journeyed inside the matrix and met a representation of Alpha Trion in The Return of Optimus Prime pt.2). And he was still Alpha Trion, not Alpha Prime or anything. There is also no evidence that other leaders in the cartoon changed their names with the matrix, apart for Hot Rod turning into Rodimus Prime, who was supposed to be unique in that regard, being the one autobot who rose through the ranks.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Shadowman wrote:
Until I get my death laser platforms into orbit? Nothing.

Hehe

Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week folks. I also do Bar mitzvahs and Corporate parties.

Raymond T. wrote:As was said before, the whole Matrix = Prime thing is a comics thing. It doesn't apply to the cartoons. This is also true of those who carry the matrix and becoming Prime. Alpha Trion was also at one time leader of the Autobots, as his essense had merged with the matrix. (Prime journeyed inside the matrix and met a representation of Alpha Trion in The Return of Optimus Prime pt.2). And he was still Alpha Trion, not Alpha Prime or anything. There is also no evidence that other leaders in the cartoon changed their names with the matrix, apart for Hot Rod turning into Rodimus Prime, who was supposed to be unique in that regard, being the one autobot who rose through the ranks.

There's also the fact that someone can be leader of the Autobots, and NOT have a Matrix. I don't really have any "Precedent" or anything, but, hey, why not? You don't see us strap the US Constitution to each president, though we should really look into that.

Shadowman wrote:There's also the fact that someone can be leader of the Autobots, and NOT have a Matrix. I don't really have any "Precedent" or anything, but, hey, why not? You don't see us strap the US Constitution to each president, though we should really look into that.

I'll give you "Precedent".Fortress Maximus in the Japanese Headmaster serries was the leader of all the Autobots after Rodimus went emo and left.F-Max was never givven the Matrix.

That being said in the Japanese serries the Matrix was nothing more then a power source.

Not every leader of the autobots (aka matrix keepers or users or whatever) were called prime...

for instance ancient robot the first matrix keeper, next was the powerful robot, then the brooding robot, after him was the pre-transformer, then the new narrator, and then the U-haul robot.
and when the u-haul robot defeated the decepticons in the war on cybertron, to gain freedom from the quintessions, later he was killed by megatron the new leader of the decepticons, but, as he was killed he handed the matrix to alpha trion to give to the next autobot leader when ever they emerged. thus we have optimus prime, who was built/repaired by alpha trion and his girlfriend elita one. Optimus prime was leader and was known as many different primes/convoy. then he dies finally and hot rod becomes leader and is changed into rodimus prime.

edit* optimus prime was a civilian robot at first, he was brought to alpha trion by a autobot recon team who found him injured, trion saw some spirit in the bot and decided to rebuild him thus creating optimus prime

Gigastorm wrote:Not every leader of the autobots (aka matrix keepers or users or whatever) were called prime...

for instance ancient robot the first matrix keeper, next was the powerful robot, then the brooding robot, after him was the pre-transformer, then the new narrator, and then the U-haul robot.
and when the u-haul robot defeated the decepticons in the war on cybertron, to gain freedom from the quintessions, later he was killed by megatron the new leader of the decepticons, but, as he was killed he handed the matrix to alpha trion to give to the next autobot leader when ever they emerged. thus we have optimus prime, who was built/repaired by alpha trion and his girlfriend elita one. Optimus prime was leader and was known as many different primes/convoy. then he dies finally and hot rod becomes leader and is changed into rodimus prime.

edit* optimus prime was a civilian robot at first, he was brought to alpha trion by a autobot recon team who found him injured, trion saw some spirit in the bot and decided to rebuild him thus creating optimus prime

You got some of your info wrong buddy.The "u-haul robot defeated the decepticons in the war on cybertron" did not do it to "gain freedom from the quintessions"....The Quitessions were defeted by A3 and a band of rebel Autobots long before that fight.

A3 would later become Alpha Trion.

And may I ask why your calling him the "U-Haul" robot in the first place???

okay so i made some mistakes, but most of it was right. i called him the u-haul robot becuase thats what teletraan refers to him as

Gigastorm wrote:okay so i made some mistakes, but most of it was right. i called him the u-haul robot becuase thats what teletraan refers to him as

Do you meen the teletraan wili page online???

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Gigastorm wrote:okay so i made some mistakes, but most of it was right. i called him the u-haul robot becuase thats what teletraan refers to him as

Do you meen the teletraan wili page online???

yep

Gigastorm wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Gigastorm wrote:okay so i made some mistakes, but most of it was right. i called him the u-haul robot becuase thats what teletraan refers to him as

Do you meen the teletraan wili page online???

yep

thanks

heres a link http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

heres a link to the u-haul robot http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/U-Haul_Robot

Gigastorm wrote:heres a link http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

heres a link to the u-haul robot http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/U-Haul_Robot

Again thanks.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Gigastorm wrote:heres a link http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

heres a link to the u-haul robot http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/U-Haul_Robot

Again thanks.

again, no problem