The Energon Pub

ChrisR291 wrote:Best movie of the year??? i think not..... I recall watching a Little Movie Called 300 this year.

The movie was decent but I don't think its something i'd watch over and over again.

I actually think Transformers has a more original storyline (about 3000 years fresher), better character motivation, more exhilerating action, and better special effects. I mean, I could actually feel the characters were acting as they really would have in such an instance, and agree there was a true good/bad line. If Transformers felt 2-D, then fight scenes and cinematography were all that were driving 300.

It's like...

Xerxes: "Kneel before me, and not only will no one in your city will be hurt, you can command my armies and have all of Europe. And I'll give you tacos."

Leo: "No thanks, I'd rather die keeping the people of my nondemocratic, infanticidal kingdom free."

VS.

Megatron: "I'm a mega douchebag out to conquer the universe. I did just kill hundreds of people and rip Jazz in half."

OP: "No-- I'm going to give my life to save these humans, and show it by risking my own life and my men's to avoid collateral damage."

DesalationReborn wrote:
It's like...

Xerxes: "Kneel before me, and not only will no one in your city will be hurt, you can command my armies and have all of Europe. And I'll give you tacos."

Leo: "No thanks, I'd rather die keeping the people of my nondemocratic, infanticidal kingdom free."

VS.

Megatron: "I'm a mega douchebag out to conquer the universe. I did just kill hundreds of people and rip Jazz in half."

OP: "No-- I'm going to give my life to save these humans, and show it by risking my own life and my men's to avoid collateral damage."

The 300 movie always bothered me. I am an admirer of Persian civilisation and although the Hoplites were indeed powerful fighters, Spartan society was indeed twisted and as much as how Frank Miller and his fan club love to rant on about the greatness of free Greece (i.e. white and Caucasian Europeans, and Americans of course!) and mighty guardian Sparta, they would NEVER want to live in that society. Never.

I had the misfortune to see the DVD cover of 300 today. I looked at the back description and they said that it was actually historical and based on the actual battle (the movie). Surely it wasn't too much of an effort to type in 'Based on Frank Miller's great comic'? Sheesh.

And Prime is indeed a better role model than Leonidas.

Burn wrote:

Riotflea wrote:Expectations- G1 done more seriously in live action.

And this is where a big part of the problem is. A lot of people expected it based on G1, because of that idiot Don Murphy.

Except it was never going to be about G1 despite what was said.

We were strung along and people got their expectations up for something that was never going to be.

Forget blaming Bay, it's Murphy they should be blaming. Blaming for promising things that were never going to be.

Good point... not helped one tiny bit by all the excitement shown by fans on his site for images of sweet-assed G1 colored photoshop repaints of possible vehicles.

Don Murphy... messing things up from day zero.

"We are movie GODS! We're actually listening to the G1 FANS!"
My ASS. lol

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-3CDBf8Rr3M

LOL at 2:20

It was a good, stupid movie.

Maybe Don can redeem himself by bringing in Dinobots and Constructicon in the sequel. I hope he lives up to his words this time.

The movie from an action/robot movie standpoint and will all expectations set to minimnum, wasn't a bad movie, it wasn't great but it also wasn't bad. The problem is that most of us Transformers fans have absorbed a lot of lore during the years, some of us don't want to let go of G1 and forget that it's been more than 20 years since those days. From a Transformers fan point of view with all expectations set to high, it was disappointing.

We have to remember that eventhough they took fans into account the movie was made for everyone.

It was great. The only thing that could have made it better was ARCEE BEING IN IT!!!!

Was it REALLY all that good?

Yes. Yes it was. And I'm no Michael Bay fan, but it was good, whether G1-OCDFs, movie critics, Academy-award specialists, or straight-up haters disagree with me, it was good. And you enjoyed it.

300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

As for Transformers, I'm still puzzled as to how a movie that barely features Transformers for more than half of the movie, and only features one proper Transformers fight and where the Decepticons aren't even characters apart from Megs and Frenzy(and then only briefly, same with the autobots), could be considered the defining point in TF fiction.

There's so much non-TF stuff that it just irritates me when people claim this is the perfect TF movie. I got driven off TFW2005 for pointing out that this is bullshit and it's taking it too far when you not only say this but push acceptance of it on other people when it doesn't even have a lot to do with Transformers for 60% of the film.

Maybe, just maybe people are being taken in by the big bangs and hype?

Spark Light wrote:300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

How is 300 racist?

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe Don can redeem himself by bringing in Dinobots and Constructicon in the sequel. I hope he lives up to his words this time.

The constructicons would never work under the current design aeshtetic. They'd be a jumbled mess. The movie bots only have very small recognising vehicle parts.

The Constructicons were the epitomy of what was cool about TFs - they were robots that not onyl turned into, but resembled vehicles. Devestator was cool because once you built him, he looked like he was made from construction equipment(his cartoon model was simplified so not quite as cool).

This is why the designs really don't have the charm of the older ones however much people claim to like them. Devestator is no good unless he's a bunch of construction vehicles that merge together and still LOOK like construction vehicles. That's what Devestator is. People getting excited finding new alt modes for Devestator, feeling all Ultimate Marvel, are missing the point. Devestator was a very simple concept, but not so simple as "The biggest Decepticon".

I am strongly against names being re-used like trash. I'll accept homages in Beast Wars since it's in the same timeline as G1 and it's also a very different context. But just doing something as stupid as calling a character that is blatantly Brawl to begin with(or at least as much as some of these movie designs go) Devestator is just insulting to the original, nifty concept.

Shadowman wrote:

Spark Light wrote:300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

How is 300 racist?

For a very long list of reasons. The comic being written by Frank Miller is a good clue, for a start, and helps put context on it. The way that the greeks were way more white than they should be, the persians considerably more black. It was flat out using race to emphasise difference. The persians were complete and utter charicatures - the Spartans took slaves just the same, too, not to mention. They were a vicious people.

It was just a completely skewed misrepresentation of events to fit a personal agenda from the same writer that gave us Holy Terror, Batman!

Spark Light wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe Don can redeem himself by bringing in Dinobots and Constructicon in the sequel. I hope he lives up to his words this time.

The constructicons would never work under the current design aeshtetic. They'd be a jumbled mess. The movie bots only have very small recognising vehicle parts.

The Constructicons were the epitomy of what was cool about TFs - they were robots that not onyl turned into, but resembled vehicles. Devestator was cool because once you built him, he looked like he was made from construction equipment(his cartoon model was simplified so not quite as cool).

This is why the designs really don't have the charm of the older ones however much people claim to like them. Devestator is no good unless he's a bunch of construction vehicles that merge together and still LOOK like construction vehicles. That's what Devestator is. People getting excited finding new alt modes for Devestator, feeling all Ultimate Marvel, are missing the point. Devestator was a very simple concept, but not so simple as "The biggest Decepticon".

I am strongly against names being re-used like trash. I'll accept homages in Beast Wars since it's in the same timeline as G1 and it's also a very different context. But just doing something as stupid as calling a character that is blatantly Brawl to begin with(or at least as much as some of these movie designs go) Devestator is just insulting to the original, nifty concept.

thats your opinion

Spark Light wrote:300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

Hmm i more thought....awesome there goes a dismembered leg, or look at the blood splatter, i couldn't give two shits about any underlying message a film may or may not contain, anyone who does, needs to take one of these.

autobot comander wrote:

Spark Light wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe Don can redeem himself by bringing in Dinobots and Constructicon in the sequel. I hope he lives up to his words this time.

The constructicons would never work under the current design aeshtetic. They'd be a jumbled mess. The movie bots only have very small recognising vehicle parts.

The Constructicons were the epitomy of what was cool about TFs - they were robots that not onyl turned into, but resembled vehicles. Devestator was cool because once you built him, he looked like he was made from construction equipment(his cartoon model was simplified so not quite as cool).

This is why the designs really don't have the charm of the older ones however much people claim to like them. Devestator is no good unless he's a bunch of construction vehicles that merge together and still LOOK like construction vehicles. That's what Devestator is. People getting excited finding new alt modes for Devestator, feeling all Ultimate Marvel, are missing the point. Devestator was a very simple concept, but not so simple as "The biggest Decepticon".

I am strongly against names being re-used like trash. I'll accept homages in Beast Wars since it's in the same timeline as G1 and it's also a very different context. But just doing something as stupid as calling a character that is blatantly Brawl to begin with(or at least as much as some of these movie designs go) Devestator is just insulting to the original, nifty concept.

thats your opinion

It's not my opinion. The fact that Devestator was made out of construction equipment is what made him so popular. Ask any casual fan who remembers him. That much is not opinion. Otherwise, Bruticus et all would have been equally popular.

Spark Light wrote:

autobot comander wrote:

Spark Light wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Maybe Don can redeem himself by bringing in Dinobots and Constructicon in the sequel. I hope he lives up to his words this time.

The constructicons would never work under the current design aeshtetic. They'd be a jumbled mess. The movie bots only have very small recognising vehicle parts.

The Constructicons were the epitomy of what was cool about TFs - they were robots that not onyl turned into, but resembled vehicles. Devestator was cool because once you built him, he looked like he was made from construction equipment(his cartoon model was simplified so not quite as cool).

This is why the designs really don't have the charm of the older ones however much people claim to like them. Devestator is no good unless he's a bunch of construction vehicles that merge together and still LOOK like construction vehicles. That's what Devestator is. People getting excited finding new alt modes for Devestator, feeling all Ultimate Marvel, are missing the point. Devestator was a very simple concept, but not so simple as "The biggest Decepticon".

I am strongly against names being re-used like trash. I'll accept homages in Beast Wars since it's in the same timeline as G1 and it's also a very different context. But just doing something as stupid as calling a character that is blatantly Brawl to begin with(or at least as much as some of these movie designs go) Devestator is just insulting to the original, nifty concept.

thats your opinion

It's not my opinion. The fact that Devestator was made out of construction equipment is what made him so popular. Ask any casual fan who remembers him. That much is not opinion. Otherwise, Bruticus et all would have been equally popular.

are you mentally retarded? this is not g1, have you seen devestator bay style? no? then how would you know it wouldn't look good? you're just bullshit

You call me mentally retarded yet that post shows evidence of an extremely simple thought process.

Devastator "looking good" isn't enough. It has to look like Devastator, or there's no point calling him that. I don't want a robot that just "Looks good"(which he probably won't), it has to be Devastator. And Devastator, visually, does not mesh with the aesthetic of the movie bots because Devastator's popularity was borne from the fact that he looked like a bunch of construction equipment stuck together. Technology gone mad.

I don't care if this "isn't G1", it still should be heavily based on G1 for a long list of reasons, mainly that it was the only universe developed over the course of seven years, and subsequent series have been throw-away continuities, so it's not a good idea to base the movie on those, or make a new one. G1 is what the public know, and it's what they'll be expecting even moreso from the sequel now that the introduction is out of the way.

I didn't read every post... And as I skimmed through this last page, I'm glad-- 300? imo, pshhh...

First off, I really did enjoy the movie.
And I'm 30 yrs. old, was REALLY into the G1 cartoon and not the Beast Wars at all.

I'm gonna agree with most of what Spark Light said in his last post.
His argument about Devastator is exactly the way I feel about Soundwave...
Even if he looks "cool", if he doesn't resemble the G1 character very well,
the voice or "loyalty" isn't gonna mean dirt.

While I think there could've been more G1 likeness done,
overall, I won't complain.
However, I definitely don't think it should go the other way (stylistically) any further.
ESPECIALLY if you all are wanting to see more than one more movie made.

In fact, if you get bored, check out my post in the "Transformers 2" Thread.
I'd like to hear other opinions on sequel ideas.
(I'm still really new here, and haven't dug around for past threads).

G1 is what the public know

Your dead wrong about that. My generation (80's) and TF enthusiasts are familiar with the original. Several generations have come after that and have no clue as to what G1
is. I firmly believe it has to be a modern take on things to get the masses interested in the movie.

Would a fresh take on the constructicons work,, hell yeah!!

http://www.joshnizzi.com/dump.htm

Spark Light wrote:300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

As for Transformers, I'm still puzzled as to how a movie that barely features Transformers for more than half of the movie, and only features one proper Transformers fight and where the Decepticons aren't even characters apart from Megs and Frenzy(and then only briefly, same with the autobots), could be considered the defining point in TF fiction.

There's so much non-TF stuff that it just irritates me when people claim this is the perfect TF movie. I got driven off TFW2005 for pointing out that this is bullshit and it's taking it too far when you not only say this but push acceptance of it on other people when it doesn't even have a lot to do with Transformers for 60% of the film.

Maybe, just maybe people are being taken in by the big bangs and hype?

I don't think anyone has said it was a perfect TF movie, but that it was a perfect intro movie, or a perfect movie for non-TF fans. No one has said it's perfect.

FuriousRodimus wrote:

Spark Light wrote:300 is a bunch of racist bullshit that didn't stir up controversy because people are so doped up by right wing complacency propoganda that they don't believe that any mass media can actually be prejudiced or incorrect in any way, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a PC nut.

As for Transformers, I'm still puzzled as to how a movie that barely features Transformers for more than half of the movie, and only features one proper Transformers fight and where the Decepticons aren't even characters apart from Megs and Frenzy(and then only briefly, same with the autobots), could be considered the defining point in TF fiction.

There's so much non-TF stuff that it just irritates me when people claim this is the perfect TF movie. I got driven off TFW2005 for pointing out that this is bullshit and it's taking it too far when you not only say this but push acceptance of it on other people when it doesn't even have a lot to do with Transformers for 60% of the film.

Maybe, just maybe people are being taken in by the big bangs and hype?

I don't think anyone has said it was a perfect TF movie, but that it was a perfect intro movie, or a perfect movie for non-TF fans. No one has said it's perfect.

And it all comes back to what I said earlier... this is the "reset" of the transformers storyline for the big screen format, setting the stage for sequels, and making the concept commercially marketable to everyone. Mission accomplished.

I've finally seen it for the first time today, and I've gotta say, it was a lot better than I was expecting. I went in pretty excited, but trying not to expect too much barring a good action film.

I got a brilliant action film.
And the Autobots were better characterised than I thought they were going to be, too, with the possible exception of Jazz. I didn't entirely agree with the characterisations (Ironhide was somewhat over-triggerhappy in my opinion, and Jazz was too much "yo, my bitches", and not enough "hey, cool, man"), while they weren't quite the characters I would've liked, they were pretty good characters nonetheless.

The Decepticons somewhat less so; we got a pretty good impression of Barricade, Frenzy and Megatron, and Blackout was okay, but Starscream, Bonecrusher and Brawl got pretty much nothing... and I don't think Scorponok had a personality to demonstrate.

But whatever, it was damn good fun. Bit of luck, I might go and check out another early showing later in the week.

Nugget wrote:

G1 is what the public know

Your dead wrong about that. My generation (80's) and TF enthusiasts are familiar with the original. Several generations have come after that and have no clue as to what G1
is. I firmly believe it has to be a modern take on things to get the masses interested in the movie.

Would a fresh take on the constructicons work,, hell yeah!!

http://www.joshnizzi.com/dump.htm

I'm from the 90s and I still know G1. G1 is still the thing Hasbro keeps going back to, Titaniums, Classics, Alternators, etc. You don't see images of armada Optimus stuck up everywhere or appearing on Family Guy(alright, Energon Starscream got a brief cameo but the toy was out at the time).

Only G1 has had a lasting impression. Many movie supporters seem to be under the illusion that RiD through Cybertron were just the same for kids today as G1 was for us. It really isn't. It's not as successful, for a start, and it isn't near as memorable.

All you did was re-iterate the argument I was countering. It's a little irritating, to say the least.

I feel the reason behind G1's lasting "impression" is simple.

The people putting it into the likes of Family Guy, Robot Chicken etc are at the age where they grew up with it.

Add to that it was the first incarnation. When new fans come a long some of them make an effort to go back to the start to learn the whole mythology.

Ask a person who the captain out of Star Trek was, they'll say Kirk, because he was the first. And because he gets referenced the most because those referrencing grew up with him.

Burn wrote:I feel the reason behind G1's lasting "impression" is simple.

The people putting it into the likes of Family Guy, Robot Chicken etc are at the age where they grew up with it.

Add to that it was the first incarnation. When new fans come a long some of them make an effort to go back to the start to learn the whole mythology.

Ask a person who the captain out of Star Trek was, they'll say Kirk, because he was the first. And because he gets referenced the most because those referrencing grew up with him.

I guarantee you in several years time that you won't be seeing Armada Optimus in the same position. It's just not feasible.

If RiD, Energon, et all, where really that memorable, they would have lasted more than a year without having to change. G1 lasted at least 3, debatedly you could stretch that as far as 10 years. Yeah, the movie shook things up, but you still had more than 2 years of G1 TFs not to mention the fact that the comic continued on with the Super Robot Life stuff into the 90s.

G1 Optimus as an icon lasts to even this day. Armada Optimus was already forgotten about. Unicron Trilogy Optimus, in general, has already been forgotten.

You have nothing to back up the idea, you're just presuming it. It's a presumption that Transformers today is the same for kids now as it was back in the 80s. You need to prove it, because there are many things that point to it being otherwise.

Kirk remains to this day an icon even among people that didn't grow up with him. I didn't grow up with him, I grew up with Jean Luc Picard. But I still recognise Kirk as an icon. Why? Because he had that lasting quality. So does Jean Luc. People won't remember Johnathan Archer the same way, or else we'd already know it by now.

No series pierced the mainstream like G1 did, no series had the expanded universe(s) G1 did with the sheer volume of toys and fiction it received. It is nowhere near the same as recent series which as I've said, are a shot in the pan. The only thing comparable is Beast Wars - which was "The Next Generation". And that's iconic in it's own right - but it's not "Transformers", it's "Beast Wars Transformers". It's a spin off. Transformers, in it's essence, to this day, remains G1. It's not a "phase", it's not "being stuck in the 80s" it IS Transformers, even if it's being constantly reinvented, G1 is ALWAYS the base. This is what some of the avid movie supporters either don't understand or refuse to acknowledge.

People really underestimate kids - older kids will most certainly know G1 Transformers. Kids love to be experts on things, and many will read up on the history even from an early age. A huge portion of youngsters would be heavily aware of Generation 1 Transformers. It's what their parents grew up with, and it's what will last practically forever.

The other generations, even the Beast Era which saddens me, won't. Plus, RiD through Cybertron was utter shite. Come on.