The Energon Pub

Fair or not Fair


1. He's a liar
2. He did it his way
3. Because he is a liar, don't be surprised if he goes back on his word about wanting nothing to do with the new trilogy and decides to come back along with dragging Shia's corpse back into it
4. Proof of the above goes back to when articles came out about how he was against 3D in movies
5. More proof that either he doesn't have a lot of pull with Paramount or that he caves pretty easily and is a puppet under Spielberg's control

That's a bit harsh. And yes, not Fair. Without Bay we most likely wouldn't have the live action movies, whether we liked them or not. He made the Transformers come alive and more mainstream than they had ever been. He put 6 years of his life into something we treat as a hobby. Yeah, he got paid for it, but he still did it when he didn't have to. And I highly doubt the movies would have been what they were had it not been for him. Yeah, they all have their faults, especially RotF, but in the end, we should be thankful they were on the big screen to begin with.

whoa there hoss!

If i may interject..

We learned also that - no matter how much we wish for a big screen - modern take on the much hallowed Generation One - The Codex of transformerdom (yikes I ate a dictionary this morning!) We - the fans, will be met with a compromise that will have to suit not only the millions of TF Fans global - but also to appeal to the wider market - so we got a modern take - someone called it transtech at one time.

we also got a big showing that said that it can be done!

For the record. I don't hate Bay. Fact I enjoy some of his movies and I think TF 2007 was a fun movie.

Just saying he seemed to lie a little bit and the real mysterious part about the creative process is whether or not he actually had any say over Paramount on some things in the trilogy. Either his hand was forced or they were genuinely meh.


ROTF and DOTM are watchable but they both mirror each other more than they mirror TF 2007 with DOTM being a shade darker.

ReDPATH wrote:1. He's a liar

Most of humanity does that.

2. He did it his way

Wait ... a movie director directing HIS way? Stop the presses! Someone call TMZ!

3. Because he is a liar, don't be surprised if he goes back on his word about wanting nothing to do with the new trilogy and decides to come back along with dragging Shia's corpse back into it

People are allowed to change their minds. That doesn't make them liars.

4. Proof of the above goes back to when articles came out about how he was against 3D in movies

I seem to recall his reasoning being that he didn't fully understand the technology. Once he sat down and spoke to the experts of it he changed his mind.
Stop the presses again! Someone changed their mind!

5. More proof that either he doesn't have a lot of pull with Paramount or that he caves pretty easily and is a puppet under Spielberg's control

You don't know what went on behind the scenes.

So yeah, whatever.

dude, seriously....This is how it goes down.
TF 1-Experiment, therefor it's closest to G1, wich is why they liked it so much!
TF 2-Wow, TF 1 was so popular, I should branch out in part 2! Not the best move, but an awesome movie none the less, even with it's flaws
TF 3-Wow, the first two were VERY Popular, but the first one is supposedly better? Maybe I should go back to the basics, and branch out at the same time: Lesson learned. Also, 3D is kinda cool and makes more money and It's what the people love!
I was smart for making the wreckers different, they WERE Rednecks, but I listened to the people, and made them different at the last moment, and that turned out great!

Moral of the story is: Guy learned from what mistakes he made, made a few new ones along the way, Learned alot about his experience, and moved on, but if he decides to return, then more power to him for making a comeback! Honestly, With all he's learned, TF 4 by Michael Bay could be a good thing. DOTM Was not Flawless! Anything but! But with it's setbacks, it definantly opened up a new realm for Transformers in general! TF4 has so much to build on now because of bay. Three movies. all of them made so much money too! I think, that we, as the TF Fandom, owe him a dept of graditude for bringing this, dead thing, back to life, kicking and screaming and pulling in the dough! He's a director. He's hollywood. you want what is in your mind, a flawless transformers movie? Make it yourself! See how it stacks up. I await the final cut. Hell, if it looks good enough, I may go see it in theaters, like I did the first three transformers movies.

What i learned was that not everyone is gonna be pleased.

The movies were preety cool,even with some small flaws,are still awesome.

BeastProwl wrote:dude, seriously....This is how it goes down.
TF 1-Experiment, therefor it's closest to G1, wich is why they liked it so much!
TF 2-Wow, TF 1 was so popular, I should branch out in part 2! Not the best move, but an awesome movie none the less, even with it's flaws
TF 3-Wow, the first two were VERY Popular, but the first one is supposedly better? Maybe I should go back to the basics, and branch out at the same time: Lesson learned. Also, 3D is kinda cool and makes more money and It's what the people love!
I was smart for making the wreckers different, they WERE Rednecks, but I listened to the people, and made them different at the last moment, and that turned out great!

Moral of the story is: Guy learned from what mistakes he made, made a few new ones along the way, Learned alot about his experience, and moved on, but if he decides to return, then more power to him for making a comeback! Honestly, With all he's learned, TF 4 by Michael Bay could be a good thing. DOTM Was not Flawless! Anything but! But with it's setbacks, it definantly opened up a new realm for Transformers in general! TF4 has so much to build on now because of bay. Three movies. all of them made so much money too! I think, that we, as the TF Fandom, owe him a dept of graditude for bringing this, dead thing, back to life, kicking and screaming and pulling in the dough! He's a director. He's hollywood. you want what is in your mind, a flawless transformers movie? Make it yourself! See how it stacks up. I await the final cut. Hell, if it looks good enough, I may go see it in theaters, like I did the first three transformers movies.

TF 1 was NOT like G1 at all. The Autobots don't even show up until the end of the movie. ROTF was more like G1 than anything.

TulioDude wrote:What i learned was that not everyone is gonna be pleased.

The movies were preety cool,even with some small flaws,are still awesome.

Small flaws? Lots of flaws. The only thing that Bay got right was getting Peter Cullen's to voice Optimus. But over all, the movies were enjoyable and brought alot of new people into the fandom. We should just be happy with what we get. As much as we don't want to accept it.

What's this "as much as we don't want to accept it" garbage?

I accept it. YOU do NOT speak for me. So please stop make generalised comments like that as there's plenty of TF fans out there who actually enjoyed the movies.

As surprising as the list is, I can't help but laugh at the "Shia's corpse" part. If that makes me insensitive, so much the better.

Rodimus Prime wrote:That's a bit harsh. And yes, not Fair. Without Bay we most likely wouldn't have the live action movies, whether we liked them or not. He made the Transformers come alive and more mainstream than they had ever been. He put 6 years of his life into something we treat as a hobby. Yeah, he got paid for it, but he still did it when he didn't have to. And I highly doubt the movies would have been what they were had it not been for him. Yeah, they all have their faults, especially RotF, but in the end, we should be thankful they were on the big screen to begin with.

All due respect, I'm not exactly sure that we need to feel thankful for anything. This is not a "movies sux/rulz" statement, but we are all intelligent enough here to know that if someone thinks a property can make them money, they will use said property to make said money. We don't exactly need to be thankful for anything. When you work for two weeks and then get paid, do you feel thankful that you've been compensated for what you've done, or do you feel that a fair exchange is taking place, based on the exchange of money for your services? Had I not seen the Transformers movies, my life would not have been diminished, and so I find it hard to believe that 'thankful' should be my response. Afterall, out of my own free will and choice I gave money that I earned to someone who made a movie. I wasn't required to see it or anything like that. If anything, the movie personnel should be thankful that so many people paid to see it rather than either not doing so or downloading or otherwise pirating the movie. The idea that some corporation makes a profit by my giving them money does not at all equal the need for me to be thankful.

I am not trying to sound bad towards you Rodimus, I'm just saying. The idea that we should be greatful that someone has made money by offering us something that we would choose to spend their money on is just wrong to me.

I didn't mean it that way. I meant that for as long as I have been a part of a Transformers online community, I've heard wishing for a live action movie. We finally got not 1 but 3, and as a fan I am thankful he made them. That's what I should have said. My mistake for speaking for anyone else. For myself, I am thankful the live action movies exist, even if they weren't made by the most saintly person in Hollywood.

ReDPATH wrote:1. He's a liar

In all fairness, whatever "lying" he did was mearly to throw people off the trail of the details of the movie. So many people felt inclined to know every aspect of the movie before hand to the point that key plot points get reveled and the surprise gets ruined. If i were directing a movie as big as TF and i had to fib a bit in hopes of shutting up some "fanboys" from digging up what My team and i had been working on for over a year, then so be it.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

ReDPATH wrote:1. He's a liar

In all fairness, whatever "lying" he did was mearly to throw people off the trail of the details of the movie. So many people felt inclined to know every aspect of the movie before hand to the point that key plot points get reveled and the surprise gets ruined. If i were directing a movie as big as TF and i had to fib a bit in hopes of shutting up some "fanboys" from digging up what My team and i had been working on for over a year, then so be it.

This.

having re-read - I agree with Burn on his points, i actually agree with a lot of points raised, but you cannot judge someone for being human, nor can you judge them on making changes once they understood the technology that they were using/going to use.

Ultimately though, what has to be understood is the following:

Its gone from attraction for fans and kids to a multi-million franchise, it has to be catered for the majority market. If it was just made for the fans and the fans of the franchise - or dumped into the "its got to be this and nothing else" the entire franchise would effectively be crippled, and leave a lot of people with egg on their faces - and a shovel load of people going "they should have done this.." etc

in short, "you cant break an omlette without breaking a few eggs"

Give the next set of movies tot he guys working on Transformers Prime, that show is far better than anything in the Bay movies

Avinash_Tyagi wrote:Give the next set of movies tot he guys working on Transformers Prime, that show is far better than anything in the Bay movies

You do realise that Orci and Kurtzman who wrote the first two TF movies are executive producing TF: Prime right?

Let's keep those two hacks far away from ANYTHING TF related in the future. I dread the day they decide to stop being executive producers and take up writing TF:Prime.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I didn't mean it that way. I meant that for as long as I have been a part of a Transformers online community, I've heard wishing for a live action movie. We finally got not 1 but 3, and as a fan I am thankful he made them. That's what I should have said. My mistake for speaking for anyone else. For myself, I am thankful the live action movies exist, even if they weren't made by the most saintly person in Hollywood.

And I did not mean to sound as though I were crusading against your opinion.
I agree with your sentiment, and even though the movies aren't the greatest, or perhaps I should say, they're not exactly what I would have wanted, I do think it's terrific that they were made. I just take exception to this idea that we as fans need to be grateful that we're provided the opportunity to buy product or support a brand. People who push that BS line are the same ones who push the line that Hasbro doesn't care about fans and I just have a personal issue with that.
You, Rodimus Prime, you're an alright guy, I've got no problem with what you said, or even the way you said it I guess. No offense, ok? I didn't mean to come across poorly if I did, or make you restate your opinions.

Maybe the problem is that people are posting in the movie forum and we're not screaming at each other or insulting each others' fan level/intelligence.

Burn wrote:

Avinash_Tyagi wrote:Give the next set of movies tot he guys working on Transformers Prime, that show is far better than anything in the Bay movies

You do realise that Orci and Kurtzman who wrote the first two TF movies are executive producing TF: Prime right?

Let's keep those two hacks far away from ANYTHING TF related in the future. I dread the day they decide to stop being executive producers and take up writing TF:Prime.

they produce yes.. I doubt that they have a single writing bone in their bodies combined...

Orci and Kurtzman aren't half bad. Many seem to forget that ROTF was produced while the majority of the script was written under fire during the Writer's Guild strike.

Blurrz wrote:Orci and Kurtzman aren't half bad. Many seem to forget that ROTF was produced while the majority of the script was written under fire during the Writer's Guild strike.

I still don't get how that movie was "confusing".

Burn wrote:

Avinash_Tyagi wrote:Give the next set of movies tot he guys working on Transformers Prime, that show is far better than anything in the Bay movies

You do realise that Orci and Kurtzman who wrote the first two TF movies are executive producing TF: Prime right?

Let's keep those two hacks far away from ANYTHING TF related in the future. I dread the day they decide to stop being executive producers and take up writing TF:Prime.

Producing is different from writing and directing though, as long as they don't screw with the writing and directing its ok, all they need to do is keep the money flowing

I'm well aware of the differences, i'd just prefer to have neither of them anywhere near the franchise at all.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Blurrz wrote:Orci and Kurtzman aren't half bad. Many seem to forget that ROTF was produced while the majority of the script was written under fire during the Writer's Guild strike.

I still don't get how that movie was "confusing".

Not confusing. Just poorly written, full of lame jokes, annoying characters, and overused clichés.

Shadowman wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Blurrz wrote:Orci and Kurtzman aren't half bad. Many seem to forget that ROTF was produced while the majority of the script was written under fire during the Writer's Guild strike.

I still don't get how that movie was "confusing".

Not confusing. Just poorly written, full of lame jokes, annoying characters, and overused clichés.

So was Crash, but it won best picture at the Oscars.