The Energon Pub

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I agree with you....not only was he a combiner but he was the "FIRST" combiner.

You mean in the cartoon? Because I think he came out as a toy as at the same time as Devastor?


I agree though that the mail-in portion probably screwed him.


As for the topic: I don't know if I can pick one. I'll have to think on it for awhile....

predacons were always my favorite. the figures individually were sized up against most of the autobots and as a kid that was important to me. i still have mine to this day.

1. Predacons
2. Technobots

Iron Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I agree with you....not only was he a combiner but he was the "FIRST" combiner.

You mean in the cartoon?

He was definitely first in both the cartoon and the comic.

Iron Prime wrote: Because I think he came out as a toy as at the same time as Devastor?

This one I cant be sure about.

I know the mail away forms came out with the first wave of Dinobots which was before the Constructicons hit stores but I couldnt begin to tell you when the firs Reflectors were mailed out to buyers.

Well in the better interest in Transformer kind...

In Japan, Reflector was 21 and Devestar was 37.

Iron Prime wrote:You mean in the cartoon? Because I think he came out as a toy as at the same time as Devastor?

Pretty sure Reflector was an 84 toy and the Constructicons were 85.

I'd have to vote for the Combaticons, I love their individual personalities. If we were just talking about the combined form itself then Devastator is the original and best in my mind.

I think my favorite combiner team is the Combaticons. But my favorite combiner is probably Devastator.

For the Decepticons I like the Combaticons. Basically, Swindle and Onslaught are two of my favorite canons to use in my writing. Their temperaments are so wonderful! **snicker**

For the Autobots I like the Aerialbots. Since Silverbolt's acrophobia makes for a lot of humor and Fireflight's recklessness can make for some good blunders. **LOL**

aerialbots or defensor

In regards to Reflector I think it has more to do with the fact with the fact he was portrayed in the cartoon as a single character with 3 seperate robot modes rather than 3 characters who combined into a single alt mode.

Their individual names were never used in the cartoon and with the animation models all looking alike it wasn't possible to tell them appart if they did have them as seperate characters so it was just easier to call them all Reflector.

To answer the original question...

It's hard to narrow it down to just one group.

I kind of like the Constructicons as being the only team with 6 members insted of the standard 5.

The Predacons is an obvious choice for me sence my favorite series is Beast Wars. I know it's just a name and they were really Decepticons but still. I would love it if they recreated the G1 Predacons in a BW Styal.

And then there's the Stunticons who I view as evil copys of the Autobots do to them sharing alt modes. (Motormaster is just the first evil Optimus Prime.)

I just can't say for sure which one is my favorite, I have different reasons for likeing all of them. I could much more easily answer which one is my least favorite.

Computron! He's vastly more intelligent than his componant parts (or at least that's how they're portrayed) who seem to be no more inteligent than any other poor smoe and yet it takes him FOREVER to come up with even the simpleist attack stratigys. That giant advanced computer brain was slower than real computers of that time when it comes to processing information. What good is a giant robot that just stands there doing nothing while another giant robot can beat the snot out of him before he finishes processing what to do for the first attack. Obviously some people in here like him but for the life of me I can't understand why.

Saber Prime wrote:I kind of like the Constructicons as being the only team with 6 members insted of the standard 5.

Thats not completely accurate.But they were the only team with more then 5 members to make it to the U.S. cartoon.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I kind of like the Constructicons as being the only team with 6 members insted of the standard 5.

Thats not completely accurate.But they were the only team with more then 5 members to make it to the U.S. cartoon.

Enter: Trainbots

SwipeScreamer wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:I kind of like the Constructicons as being the only team with 6 members insted of the standard 5.

Thats not completely accurate.But they were the only team with more then 5 members to make it to the U.S. cartoon.

Enter: Trainbots

And the.....

Seacons
Pretender Monsters

The Micromaster Combiner Six-teams
Sixliner
Sixtrain
Sixturbo
Sixwing
Sixbuilder

The Combaticons.

I don't own any, but I'd say the Constructicons and Predacons. Here's why:

Devastator- The original combiner, awesome use of re-spelling, and he combines really awesomely, unique. Lots of combiners afterward were scramble city style, which isn't bad, it's just that there are so many and they lost their originality, same combining scheme. Also nice uniformed color scheme.


Predaking- Made form wild animals for one, has awesome wings for two, and even though he is technically scramble city style, his limbs can't be swapped out and is slightly more unique. Great color scheme too. Wheeeee. I wish I owned these.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
And the.....

Seacons
Pretender Monsters

The Micromaster Combiner Six-teams
Sixliner
Sixtrain
Sixturbo
Sixwing
Sixbuilder

The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use. It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use. It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

Going by your reasoning, Long Haul shouldn't be taken into consideration either, as he's the..."crotch" of Devastator.

Anyway, the Seacons are still interchangable (or Scramble city styled), so there's no need to cast Overbite aside. They're all equally important.

Plaything wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use. It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

Going by your reasoning, Long Haul shouldn't be taken into consideration either, as he's the..."crotch" of Devastator.

Anyway, the Seacons are still interchangable (or Scramble city styled), so there's no need to cast Overbite aside. They're all equally important.

No there's a HUGE difference there. In the Constucticons, each member of the team is an arm, leg, or a part of the torso. It takes two members just to form the torso where other combiner teams INCLUDING the Seacons only need one member to become the torso. Seacon's sixth member is a GUN not a part of the robot and therefore is not needed to for the rest of the team to combine, the other 5 can function without him. The other 5 Constructicons can not function without their sixth member.

Saber Prime wrote:

Plaything wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use. It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

Going by your reasoning, Long Haul shouldn't be taken into consideration either, as he's the..."crotch" of Devastator.

Anyway, the Seacons are still interchangable (or Scramble city styled), so there's no need to cast Overbite aside. They're all equally important.

No there's a HUGE difference there. In the Constucticons, each member of the team is an arm, leg, or a part of the torso. It takes two members just to form the torso where other combiner teams INCLUDING the Seacons only need one member to become the torso. Seacon's sixth member is a GUN not a part of the robot and therefore is not needed to for the rest of the team to combine, the other 5 can function without him. The other 5 Constructicons can not function without their sixth member.

This one's a little trickier than that:
Each member of the team (except Snaptrap - the body) can be an arm, a leg, or the gun. So the are definitely in a different category then the Constructicons since they don't need all 6 to form the gestalt. However they are still a team of six, and if one of the 'cons who is traditionally a limb were out of commission the sixth could fill in as that instead of being a weapon....

aerialbots

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

That's incorrect.

That 6th member as well as the other 4 limbs are interchangeable as arm's,leg's or weapons for the combined form to use.

Any one of the 5 smaller members of that team can be an arm,leg or gun.

Its why the toy has become known as a combiner and a targetmaster.

Saber Prime wrote: It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

And?????Whats your point????

Saber Prime wrote: In the Constucticons, each member of the team is an arm, leg, or a part of the torso.

And with the Seacons, each member is "CAPABLE" of becoming an arm,leg or torso.

Saber Prime wrote: It takes two members just to form the torso where other combiner teams INCLUDING the Seacons only need one member to become the torso.

Thats incorrect also.

There are other combiner teams that require 2 members to become the torso.

Saber Prime wrote: Seacon's sixth member is a GUN not a part of the robot and therefore is not needed to for the rest of the team to combine,

He's a gun as needed.He can also be an arm or a leg.

Saber Prime wrote: the other 5 can function without him.

But how do you determine which is not needed?????

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote: It seems their BWII repaint even removed that member from the team and they still combine.

And?????Whats your point????

It's verry simple. If the BWII Seacon Pirates can function as a Gestalt as a team of 5 it proves that the original Seasons could of allso. I'm amazed I even have to exsplain this, it should be obvious.

Saber Prime wrote: In the Constucticons, each member of the team is an arm, leg, or a part of the torso.

And with the Seacons, each member is "CAPABLE" of becoming an arm,leg or torso.

What each member is capable of is not the point. What IS the point is that they only NEED 5 members to combine.

The Constructicons CAN NOT combine with only 5 members, the Seacons CAN. How hard is that to understand?

Saber Prime wrote:It takes two members just to form the torso where other combiner teams INCLUDING the Seacons only need one member to become the torso.

Thats incorrect also.

There are other combiner teams that require 2 members to become the torso.

That statement is not wrong unless you're stinking words in my mouth that aren't there.

Even if there are other combiner teams where it takes two to form the torso I never said the Constructions were the ONLY ones who combine that way, I just said "It takes two members just to form the torso" I allso never said "ALL other combiner teams".

That statement was phraised to allow for benifit of the doubt in case there were others like the Constructicons I didn't know about. It was not phraised to indicated the Constructicons were the only ones. Wheather there are others or not that statement was not wrong.

All it says is that the Constructicons need two members to form the torso which is true and that other combiner teams includeing the Seacons only need 1 member to form the torso which is allso true. If I had said ALL other combiner teams then you could say it was wrong but I never said "all".

Saber Prime wrote: Seacon's sixth member is a GUN not a part of the robot and therefore is not needed to for the rest of the team to combine,

He's a gun as needed.He can also be an arm or a leg.

He could allso just be a stand alone robot and not join them at all.

Saber Prime wrote: the other 5 can function without him.

But how do you determine which is not needed?????

I don't but if the BWII Seacon Pirates survived with only 5 Members then the original Seacons could of survived with only 5 members. It's just that simple.

There is no way the Constructicons can form Devistator with a missing member of their team. If the upper torso is missing they don't have any way to connect the arms or head. If the crotch is missing the have no way to connect the legs. ect. Devistator simply can't happen without all 6 of it's members.

The Seacons only need 5 members to form Pironacon. If they're missing a 6th member it's no big deal, they just lost a gun is all. They can still fuction as a giant robot. This is PROVEN FACT that can't be argued agenst as evidence by the BWII Seacon Pirates. If they NEEDED 6 members to combine they would of HAD 6 members but they decided to drop 1 member and go with just the main body. God Neptune is formed by FIVE members, not SIX. With the exception of the loss of ONE member who could of been a gun Pironacon and God Neptune share the same mold and transformations so if ONE of them can combine with only 5 members then BOTH of them can.

Saber Prime wrote:It's verry simple. If the BWII Seacon Pirates can function as a Gestalt as a team of 5 it proves that the original Seasons could of allso.

You still havent made a point on how that should dictate wether or not they should be considered a "6 member team".

Saber Prime wrote: I'm amazed I even have to exsplain this, it should be obvious.

It's not obvious because wether or not they were capable of combineing with 5 members is irrelivent to the point in hand.

The simple fact that they "WERE" a 6 member team.

Saber Prime wrote:What each member is capable of is not the point.

How is that not the point?????

Your trying to say that they shouldnt be considered a 6 member team do to the fact that one "ONLY" transformes into a gun.

Which you were wrong about.


Here is what you said:

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

The point is all five of the smaller members can become ether a gun, a arm or a leg.

So how can you discount 1 with out discounting the other 4???

How do you chose which one to cast aside?????

You cant simple because they were designed to be interchangeable and a 6 member team.

Saber Prime wrote: What IS the point is that they only NEED 5 members to combine.

The Constructicons CAN NOT combine with only 5 members, the Seacons CAN. How hard is that to understand?

How is that the point?????

You never said that they shouldnt be counted because they can function with out one of their members.

Here is what you said AGAIN.....

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

Now maybe you'll understand why no one understands you.

Saber Prime wrote:
That statement is not wrong unless you're stinking words in my mouth that aren't there.

Even if there are other combiner teams where it takes two to form the torso I never said the Constructions were the ONLY ones who combine that way, I just said "It takes two members just to form the torso" I allso never said "ALL other combiner teams".

That statement was phraised to allow for benifit of the doubt in case there were others like the Constructicons I didn't know about. It was not phraised to indicated the Constructicons were the only ones. Wheather there are others or not that statement was not wrong.

I then apologize.

It seem that you were saying that the Constructicons were the "ONLY" team with a two member torso.

Saber Prime wrote: He could allso just be a stand alone robot and not join them at all.

As can any of the other smaller members....so again whats the point.

Saber Prime wrote:I don't but if the BWII Seacon Pirates survived with only 5 Members then the original Seacons could of survived with only 5 members. It's just that simple.

There is no way the Constructicons can form Devistator with a missing member of their team. If the upper torso is missing they don't have any way to connect the arms or head. If the crotch is missing the have no way to connect the legs. ect. Devistator simply can't happen without all 6 of it's members.

The Seacons only need 5 members to form Pironacon. If they're missing a 6th member it's no big deal, they just lost a gun is all. They can still fuction as a giant robot. This is PROVEN FACT that can't be argued agenst as evidence by the BWII Seacon Pirates. If they NEEDED 6 members to combine they would of HAD 6 members but they decided to drop 1 member and go with just the main body. God Neptune is formed by FIVE members, not SIX. With the exception of the loss of ONE member who could of been a gun Pironacon and God Neptune share the same mold and transformations so if ONE of them can combine with only 5 members then BOTH of them can.

And again your not making a point.

The disscussion was not wether or not they needed all 6 members to form their combined form but why they should not be considered a 6 combiner member team.

You originally reason that they should not be counted as a 6 member team was because 1 member "ONLY" formed a gun.Which was wrong.

All 5 smaller members can form a gun,arm or leg.

If you want to change your "reason" or the conversation you should give notice.That way there's less confusion about what your saying.

So now that you've changed your reason for why they shouldnt be counted as a 6 member combiner team I'll ask you which one should go??????

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:It's verry simple. If the BWII Seacon Pirates can function as a Gestalt as a team of 5 it proves that the original Seasons could of allso.

You still havent made a point on how that should dictate wether or not they should be considered a "6 member team".

Saber Prime wrote: I'm amazed I even have to exsplain this, it should be obvious.

It's not obvious because wether or not they were capable of combineing with 5 members is irrelivent to the point in hand.

The simple fact that they "WERE" a 6 member team.

That would be just great if this were the "what's your fovorite team" thread but sence it's the "What's your favorite COMBINER team" thread that makes a HUGE difference in what we're talking about here.

Do I really have to say combiner in every sentence for you to understand what I've been saying or can you read the topic title?

The whole thing about the Seacons not counting as a 6 member team has EVERYTHING to do with the fact they don't need 6 members to combine. This is a COMBINER topic not an "any generic team" topic.

The point is all five of the smaller members can become ether a gun, a arm or a leg.

No the point is they only need 5 members to be a COMBINER team. If it wasn't for the added 6th member and the gun alt modes they'd be exactly like the standard 5 member groups.

Again you seem to have forgotten this was a Combiner topic. Wheater or not the Seacons have 6 members was never in question. What was in question was weather or not they should be considered a 6 member COMBINER when they don't need 6 to COMBINE.

Saber Prime wrote: What IS the point is that they only NEED 5 members to combine.

The Constructicons CAN NOT combine with only 5 members, the Seacons CAN. How hard is that to understand?

How is that the point?????

Because the topic title is about "COMBINER" teams. If we weren't talking about combiners this conversion would of played out ALOT differently.

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

Now maybe you'll understand why no one understands you.

All I understand is that everyone but me forgot this was a combiner topic so apperently I have to say combiner in every sentence so people can figure out I was saying he shouldn't count as a 6 member combiner because he only needs 5 members to combine.

And I thought my memory was bad.

Saber Prime wrote: He could allso just be a stand alone robot and not join them at all.

As can any of the other smaller members....so again whats the point.

Again, this is a COMBINER topic.

Saber Prime wrote:I don't but if the BWII Seacon Pirates survived with only 5 Members then the original Seacons could of survived with only 5 members. It's just that simple.

There is no way the Constructicons can form Devistator with a missing member of their team. If the upper torso is missing they don't have any way to connect the arms or head. If the crotch is missing the have no way to connect the legs. ect. Devistator simply can't happen without all 6 of it's members.

The Seacons only need 5 members to form Pironacon. If they're missing a 6th member it's no big deal, they just lost a gun is all. They can still fuction as a giant robot. This is PROVEN FACT that can't be argued agenst as evidence by the BWII Seacon Pirates. If they NEEDED 6 members to combine they would of HAD 6 members but they decided to drop 1 member and go with just the main body. God Neptune is formed by FIVE members, not SIX. With the exception of the loss of ONE member who could of been a gun Pironacon and God Neptune share the same mold and transformations so if ONE of them can combine with only 5 members then BOTH of them can.

And again your not making a point.

Again, combiner topic.

The disscussion was not wether or not they needed all 6 members to form their combined form but why they should not be considered a 6 combiner member team.

That statement doesn't make any sence. The words in bold/ittalic make the bold statement and the ittalic statment contridict eachother.

"The disscussion was not wether or not they needed all 6 members to form their combiner form." Yes the disscussion is about exactly that! I don't know what you think the disscussion is about.

"Why they should not be considered a 6 combiner member team." To answer this we have to talk about the thing you said this wasn't about. Now if you hadn't said combiner in that sentence then the whole thing would just be wrong because this is a combiner topic and we're not talking about them not being a 6 member team, they're just not a 6 member COMBINER. Sence you did say combiner in this sentence it contridicts the first part because you can't talk about one without the other so you're basically saying the conversation is and isn't about this at the same time. Some how you don't realize the two topics are the same.

Weather or not they can COMBINE without 6 members has EVERYTHING to do with weather or not they can be considered a 6 member COMBINER. Weather or not they're a 6 member team was never in question, it's allways been about weather or not they were a 6 member COMBINER team. The simple fact the conversion is about COMBINERS not just any generic team means weather or not they actully need all their members to COMBINE became the most important factor in how many COMBINER members they actully have.

I don't understand why you have to make this more complicated than it is. Simple facts.

YES the Seacons are a 6 member team.

NO the Seacons are not a 6 member COMBINER. They are a 5 member COMBINER.

There is a difference between just being a team and being a combiner. A combiner has EVERYTHING to do with how many members it actully takes to COMBINE that's why they're called COMBINERS.

You wouldn't consider the RID Decepticons to be a 6 member combiner team would you? Only 5 of the Decepticons combine, Scourge isn't part of Ruination.

You originally reason that they should not be counted as a 6 member team was because 1 member "ONLY" formed a gun.Which was wrong.

No it wasn't.

All 5 smaller members can form a gun,arm or leg.

That's irrelivant

So now that you've changed your reason for why they shouldnt be counted as a 6 member combiner team I'll ask you which one should go??????

I never changed my reason I just changed my phraising after I found out they were interchangable as the gun. The reasoning has allways been that they only need 5 to combine therefore they are not a 6 member combiner.

In order to be a 6 member combiner you would actully need all 6 of your members to combine like the Constructicons do. Sence the Seacons don't need all 6 of their members to combine they are not a 6 member combiner.

How can you possibly consider something a 6 member combiner that only needs 5 members to combine? By this reasoning the Energon Autobots are at least (I'm saying at least because I didn't bother to count them I'm just estimating how many there are.) an 8 member combiner despite the fact only 2 can actully combine at a time.

Saber Prime wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:It's not obvious because wether or not they were capable of combineing with 5 members is irrelivent to the point in hand.

The simple fact that they "WERE" a 6 member team.

That would be just great if this were the "what's your fovorite team" thread but sence it's the "What's your favorite COMBINER team" thread that makes a HUGE difference in what we're talking about here.

Do I really have to say combiner in every sentence for you to understand what I've been saying or can you read the topic title?

And do I have to say "Combiner" in every sentence for you to understand that my sentence still stands with of with out the word "Combiner" in it?????

Here it is again since you cant read "in between the lines"...

The simple fact is that they "WERE" a 6 member "COMBINER" team.

Some times you can be so foolish.....you try to criticize me for doing the same thing you did....we both left out the word "Combiner" in our statement.

Saber Prime wrote:The whole thing about the Seacons not counting as a 6 member team has EVERYTHING to do with the fact they don't need 6 members to combine. This is a COMBINER topic not an "any generic team" topic.

They may not need him but they have him.

Same as a person does not need both kidneys to function but we still have 2 and we count them as body parts.

And again your changing your first statement.

You did not say that the Seacons should not count because he doesnt need the 6th member....you said that the Seacons shouldnt count because the 6th member "ONLY" changes into a gun.

Which as I pointed out was incorrect.

If you want to change your reasons or add to them thats your right but it does not change your original statement from being wrong.

Saber Prime wrote:No the point is they only need 5 members to be a COMBINER team. If it wasn't for the added 6th member and the gun alt modes they'd be exactly like the standard 5 member groups.

But that wasnt in your original statement.If thats what you wanted to say you should have.

Saber Prime wrote:Again you seem to have forgotten this was a Combiner topic.

I havent forgotten that and there's nothing in my post to suggest that I have....except me forgetting to type "Combiner" once or twice.

Saber Prime wrote: What was in question was weather or not they should be considered a 6 member COMBINER when they don't need 6 to COMBINE.

Again what was in question was you saying that they should not be counted because the 6th member "ONLY" changed into a gun.

You did not bring up the fact that a 6th member was not needed to make the combined form untill after I brought up the fact that the 6th member could also change into an arm or leg.

If you want to add that to your argument now that is your right but you cant try to over ride your original statement from being incorrect with it.

Saber Prime wrote:Because the topic title is about "COMBINER" teams. If we weren't talking about combiners this conversion would of played out ALOT differently.

And your point is still lose.

I know were talking about combiner teams but nothing was ever said that every member has to combine all the time.

Saber Prime wrote:All I understand is that everyone but me forgot this was a combiner topic

No one forgot it buddy.

Point is he is a 6 member combiner team wether or not he needs all 6 to combine at the same time.

Depending on what kind of weapon the gestalt mode needs one of the limbs will change places with the weapon.

And again there's nothing in the topic or in the name that suggest that all 6 most combine all the time.

Saber Prime wrote: so apperently I have to say combiner in every sentence so people can figure out I was saying he shouldn't count as a 6 member combiner because he only needs 5 members to combine.

See above.

Saber Prime wrote:And I thought my memory was bad.

This has nothing to do with memory but with your inability to chose the right words to express what you want to say.

Saber Prime wrote:Again, this is a COMBINER topic.

And....like I said any one of the smaller members of the Seacon team can just sit around and do nothing.

How does that deter from the topic at hand?????

Any one of the smaller members of that team can ether be the gun,arm,leg or can stand alone and do nothing.

How does that change the fact that he is a 6 member combining team????

As for the toys instructions you could interchange a member of the Seacon team with the Combaticon team or the Terrercon team or the Stunticon team.

This feature did make it into the Japanese cartoon, and you cant say it doesnt count because the Seacons never made it into the U.S. cartoon so the Japanese cartoon is a valid source for info on this topic.

So how does the fact that he does not need all 6 to combine change the fact that he is a 6 member combiner team?????

All 6 members can combine to form the combined form just not at the same time but each member are based on the same theme and can interchange with an other as arm or leg with out any lose in fuction.

Saber Prime wrote:Again, combiner topic.

Still no point buddy.

There has been nothing said that all members "HAVE" to combine at the same time to be considered a "Combiner" team.

As a matter of fact we have seen some teams combine when one of their members were missing or damaged or anergy depleted.

Deverstator combined with out an arm in "5 faces of Darkness pt1"

Defensor combined with out an arm in "The Burden hardest to bear"

They did not fuction at full capacity but they were still able to combine with out one of their members.

Saber Prime wrote:That statement doesn't make any sence. The words in bold/ittalic make the bold statement and the ittalic statment contridict eachother.

Let me correct that a bit.

The disscussion was not wether or not they needed all 6 members to become their combined form but why they should not be considered a 6 member combiner team.

Hope that clears that up.

Saber Prime wrote:"The disscussion was not wether or not they needed all 6 members to form their combiner form." Yes the disscussion is about exactly that! I don't know what you think the disscussion is about.

It was not about that because your first claim was that they should not be considered a 6 member combiner team because the 6th member "ONLY" became a gun.

Here is your statement again.....

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

That statement is what I replyed to.

You said nothing about them not needing all 6 members to form the Gestalt at any one time.

And your statement implied that the 6th member could not even form a leg or arm if it wanted too.

So again if you want to add to your statement do so but you cant change it and try to make me out as the one that is confused.

I just replyed to what you "DID" say not what you "WANTED" to say.

The failure is yours buddy not mine.

Saber Prime wrote:"Why they should not be considered a 6 combiner member team." To answer this we have to talk about the thing you said this wasn't about.

?????

Saber Prime wrote: Now if you hadn't said combiner in that sentence then the whole thing would just be wrong because this is a combiner topic

First you complain that you need to put "Combiner" in every sentance but you also complain when I forget to use the word.

Why are you so argumentative?????

Just so that you understand, every time I said "6 member team" I ment to say "6 member combiner team".

But lets go on.......

Saber Prime wrote: and we're not talking about them not being a 6 member team, they're just not a 6 member COMBINER.

Prove it.

Saber Prime wrote: Sence you did say combiner in this sentence it contridicts the first part because you can't talk about one without the other so you're basically saying the conversation is and isn't about this at the same time. Some how you don't realize the two topics are the same.

One topic.

Combiner teams.

Why is the Seacons not a 6 member combiner team?????

Combiner teams have been shown to combine while missing a member so why is a combiner team designed with the capability of interchangeable members not considered a 6 member combiner team????

When you think about it their like a NFL "FOOTBALL" team.

A NFL football team could have as many as 46 team members but only 11 are allowed to take the field at any one time.

The team members are swapped when ether injured or when special needs or tactics are needed.

The fact that all 46 team members are not in play "ALL THE TIME" does not change the fact that they are "ALL" members of 1 team.

Saber Prime wrote:Weather or not they can COMBINE without 6 members has EVERYTHING to do with weather or not they can be considered a 6 member COMBINER.

Again thats not what your originally stated.

Saber Prime wrote: Weather or not they're a 6 member team was never in question, it's allways been about weather or not they were a 6 member COMBINER team. The simple fact the conversion is about COMBINERS not just any generic team means weather or not they actully need all their members to COMBINE became the most important factor in how many COMBINER members they actully have.

And again they have 6 "Combining" members.....they just dont combine all at the same time.

Just like a football team dose not all play in the same game at the same time.

Saber Prime wrote:
I don't understand why you have to make this more complicated than it is. Simple facts.

YES the Seacons are a 6 member team.

NO the Seacons are not a 6 member COMBINER. They are a 5 member COMBINER.

All 6 members are capable of combining to form Piranacon.Any one of the smaller members can be an arm or a leg or a gun depending on what the team needs at the time.

Again like a football team.

They are a 6 member combining team.

Saber Prime wrote:There is a difference between just being a team and being a combiner. A combiner has EVERYTHING to do with how many members it actully takes to COMBINE that's why they're called COMBINERS.

No..... being a "Combiner" has to do with the capability of combining.

Not all combiners form "Super-robots" and not all combiners only combine with their Sub-group team members or partners.

Saber Prime wrote:You wouldn't consider the RID Decepticons to be a 6 member combiner team would you? Only 5 of the Decepticons combine, Scourge isn't part of Ruination.

I dont see your point.

Saber Prime wrote:

You originally reason that they should not be counted as a 6 member team was because 1 member "ONLY" formed a gun.Which was wrong.

No it wasn't.

YES IT WAS

Here it is again......

Saber Prime wrote:The Seacons shouldn't even count sence one of their members only seems to transform into a gun for the gestalt to use.

You cant deny what you originally said buddy.

Saber Prime wrote:

All 5 smaller members can form a gun,arm or leg.

That's irrelivant

How so????

Its the definning factor to weather they are a "Combiner" or not.....the ability to form part of an other alt mode or super-robot is what a combiner is.

Saber Prime wrote:I never changed my reason

Yes you did.

Saber Prime wrote: I just changed my phraising after I found out they were interchangable as the gun.

First your reason was because you said that the 6th member "ONLY" transformed into a gun.

Now your saying your reason is because not all 6 are needed to form the Super-robot.

Thats not changing the "phrasing" thats adding more info to save face because your first statement was proven wrong.

Saber Prime wrote: The reasoning has allways been that they only need 5 to combine therefore they are not a 6 member combiner.

Thats not what you originally said.

And again I'll refer you to the 46 member "Football" teams.

Are the members that dont get to play all the time not members of those teams????

Saber Prime wrote:In order to be a 6 member combiner you would actully need all 6 of your members to combine like the Constructicons do.

Sence the Seacons don't need all 6 of their members to combine they are not a 6 member combiner.

Who says.....you??????

Boy are you full of your self.

As I stated the Constructicons have formed Deverstator with a missing member......the Protectibots have formed Defensor with one missing member.....and both happened in the original U.S. G1 cartoon.

There are combiners that dont form Super-robots, combiners that only form "Alt-modes" and those that combiner with other partners.

The only "Criteria" set forth by "HASBRO" is that they are capable of combining with one an other.

So in order for the Seacons to be considered a 6 member combiner team by "HASBRO" is each member is capable of serving as an arm,leg or torso.

And in that the Seacons fit the criteria.

Saber Prime wrote: How can you possibly consider something a 6 member combiner that only needs 5 members to combine?

2 reasons.

1] Not every member of a team gets a chance to play but they are still team members capable of doing what the other members are capable of doing.

2] Hasbro says they are.And Hasbro is the owners of the characters.Just like you can say and do what ever you like with your characters......Hasbro can say and do what they want with theirs.And according to Hasbro the Seacons are a 6 member combiner team.

Saber Prime wrote: By this reasoning the Energon Autobots are at least (I'm saying at least because I didn't bother to count them I'm just estimating how many there are.) an 8 member combiner despite the fact only 2 can actully combine at a time.

I dont know how many there are ether but for the most part that entire line of Autobots were "Combiners".

Any one that could combine with an other was a combiner.