The Energon Pub

I don't actually think anyone hates the cartoon, they have just dismissed chunks of it from their own personal 'canon' because some episodes are sooo nonsensical and old-fashioned (even for the time) it is embarrassing. I realise the irony of using the word 'nonsensical' given that we are all talking about giant talking robots when I say this.

For me the issue is the huge clash in style and tone between what I would consider to be the better stories in all mediums, and what I would consider to be crappy filler. I'd say that about half of the entire US comics run is crappy filler, and I'd say the same for the cartoon. I may be biased here but I think the UK comics run is superior in almost every respect. Not that I would ever want to dismiss what Bob Budiansky did in giving pretty much every figure a personality and a name which was a tremendous achievement, given the time constraints he was under.

For me, the problem is this - I'd finish reading Time Wars for example and then the very next UK issue would be a reprint of some nonsensical story about robot wrestling or whatever. Or I'd switch on the TV and there would be spike turned into a demented robot who was a very lazily spliced amalgamation of several Autobots. There is just no coherency. It would be like mixing in silver, bronze and modern age Batman comic stories and interspersing golden age stories within the same timeframe and expecting no-one to say "what the hell?"

The US comic and cartoon also both suffered from having to provide 'one shots' all the time. It's no coincidence that the better stories were those which were allowed to develop properly and have a decent runtime, such as the movie, the original mini-series, Dark Star, the Matrix Quest etc. It can be hard to tell a good story in 20 pages or minutes. having said all that, I do enjoy watching the more surreal cartoon episodes because they are fun in a different way, they just don't particularly complement the more intelligent or 'Highbrow' (geddit?) stories of the time. And I certainly don't hate them.

I don't think anyone can 'hate' on G1. Like G1 is the whole reason we're here. More likely they're recognizing it as a flawed, sometimes silly, nonsensical 80's cartoon meant to sell toys. That doesn't at all mean it's bad...well, except for B.O.T. But we don't talk about that...

JetOptimus23 wrote:I don't think anyone can 'hate' on G1. Like G1 is the whole reason we're here.

False. I'm here cuz of Beast Wars. Others are here cuz of the same, or any other post-G1 series.

Also, it's not "G1" that's being "hated" on, just the cartoon. There's more to "G1" than just its cartoon. For the general discussion about the idea of "hating on G1", see here - http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=82127

Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

JetOptimus23 wrote:Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

Yep. Though, the cartoon wasn't. The true beginning, fiction-wise came in the form of the Marvel comics.

But if one wanted to get really precise, the actual beginning (fiction-wise) was the original eight-page story treatment written by Jim Shooter and then handed off to Bob Budiansky, but that's a bit much.

Sabrblade wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:Well, I mean G1 is literally the genesis of transformers. I'm in the fandom because of Armada, but G1 is the beginning,

Yep. Though, the cartoon wasn't. The true beginning, fiction-wise came in the form of the Marvel comics.

But if one wanted to get really precise, the actual beginning (fiction-wise) was the original eight-page story treatment written by Jim Shooter and then handed off to Bob Budiansky, but that's a bit much.

The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

I do see a lot of backlash to the original cartoon (which informed the idea of what TFs were to the vast majority of anyone familiar with the franchise in the '80's), but it does seem that most of this comes from fans that grew up later or are REALLY fond of the UK books. There's a lot of snobbery on the IDW boards towards the show.

Dean ML wrote:The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

In the U.S., maybe. In the UK, however, it was the primary TF story since the cartoon barely aired over there. It had 332 issues over seven or eight years, and placed a great deal of focus on the bots themselves, even the more obscure ones who didn't get any chance to shine or even appear in the U.S. issues.

Sabrblade wrote:

Dean ML wrote:The Marvel comic beat the cartoon by a matter of months and had a fraction of the audience compared to the show. Also, the show had like 98 episodes over four years and the book had 80 issues over seven or eight. It wasn't really till the show was canceled and TF mania cooled off that the Marvel book really found itself. Before then, the book placed a great deal of focus on human characters that had little appeal and treated most of the TFs as disposable background fodder.

In the U.S., maybe. In the UK, however, it was the primary TF story since the cartoon barely aired over there. It had 332 issues over seven or eight years, and placed a great deal of focus on the bots themselves, even the more obscure ones who didn't get any chance to shine or even appear in the U.S. issues.

I wouldn't really go that far. The show aired in its entirety and was the main TF fiction for me, my cousin and his school friends, he never even knew that TF comics existed and he would have been all over them had he. He did collect X-Men comics for almost 10 years.
I even remember seeing repeats of the show (or maybe it was just the G2 version now that I think about it).
There where multiple VHS releases and an active VHS "trading ring", well the later might have just been at my cousin's school, he kept showing up with VHSs he taped himself or bought off of someone else, he was real proud about getting a tape with the full episodes of the Rebirth as I remember.


However, I will say that the TF comic might have been the main TF fiction for about 90% of adult UK TF fans. Since that lasted until well after the cartoon ended, and the final UK G2 issue even directed its readers towards the at the time young online community and its fanzines.

And I think that's basically the same for the US fans as well, those that followed the comics, stayed aware of the brand for longer than those who didn't and then lost interest after the cartoon stopped and eventually grew out of it.

Same would have happened to me weren't it for my cousin and him taping G1 and Beast Wars for us to watch well after it all ended. He kept me interested, then introduced me to the DVDs, which then led me to the Dreamwave comics, which then led me to internet news sites, which eventually introduced me to the online fandom after I learned what forum ment.