The Energon Pub

Dark Zarak wrote:I think you read too deeply into my point.


I of course agree with you. The whole movie was obnoxious, even Lennox's baby for God's sake.


I only mentioned the black guys who were obnoxious because they were already the subject matter of the discussion. The other obnoxious people were just not relevant to the point at that time.

It's a matter of semantics I think.

I'm not reading to much into your point or the points of others.

I just find that there are way to many people [not saying you] reading "racism" into some aspects of this film that were just not there.

The "Spanish" speeking character, B.Mac's attitude twards the "grandmother" like character, her attitude in return, the Indian call center character, every thing we saw there were reflections of real word experances's and werent over the top.

Its the reason so many found those scenes humorus.....because so many could relate to those events.

I cant call it "stereotyping" or "racism" when nether race was singled out as the only to exsibit that behavior.

Dark Zarak wrote:So okay, I concede. It's not racist if everyone is equally as obnoxious. But that doesn't change the fact that everyone is obnoxious and therefore the movie is annoying, low-brow, and offensive.

I cant completly disagree.

Dark Zarak wrote:The only offensive and low-brow thing that I even like is South Park, and that's only because it's supposed to be that way, whereas the TF movie should not have been. And South Park is way more intelligent too, which is saying something.

And one of the best things ever on TV. I love "low-brow" humor when done right.

Dark Zarak wrote:Moldavite obviously has a university level liberal arts education, as do I. I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

You guys arent the only one's but truth be told I cant agree with all of his sentiments.

Dark Zarak wrote:

***Galvatron*** wrote:How in the hell is a newborn baby that's in a movie for two minutes defined as "obnoxious" ? That's so far out there I can't even fathom that right now.

I seem to recall a fart joke involving that baby. How is that not obnoxious? They can't even have a baby without making it fart. It's stupid.

And don't bother riding my nuts about that, like I'm some Church soccer mom who can't handle it. I'm just saying it's obnoxious.

Obnoxious to you yes not necessarily to everyone else but riding your nuts ? please, if you can't handle anyone else's responses then don't reply.

And yes, I will see the sequels, and yes I'll complain about them too.


I had the best laugh with this one above however!
I'm sure Bay and all the other card carrying racists that make these films will appreciate the extra money that you bring in for them but apparently since you believe so strongly in the things you've posted about this film already you are going to further support a low brow,racist,sexist,military propaganda franchise again ?.

Glad to see you stand behind your ideals and beliefs or do they just suit whichever side of the fence you may be on from day to day ?

Moldavite obviously has a university level liberal arts education, as do I. I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

Art snob mentalities for a giant robot smashing summer film is simply expecting too much from a franchise based on a toy line.

***Galvatron*** wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:And yes, I will see the sequels, and yes I'll complain about them too.

I had the best laugh with this one above however!
I'm sure Bay and all the other card carrying racists that make these films will appreciate the extra money that you bring in for them but apparently since you believe so strongly in the things you've posted about this film already you are going to further support a low brow,racist,sexist,military propaganda franchise again ?.

Glad to see you stand behind your ideals and beliefs or do they just suit whichever side of the fence you may be on from day to day ?

Read all my posts before responding. I said
1. That I found other aspects of the movie enjoyable.
2. That I am only defending Moldavite because I see where he's coming from. I don't agree completely with him.

This post:

I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

No, I have no problem supporting it, because I don't believe that it matters in the long run. But I do agree the problem is there.

***Galvatron*** wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Moldavite obviously has a university level liberal arts education, as do I. I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

Art snob mentalities for a giant robot smashing summer film is simply expecting too much from a franchise based on a toy line.

Again, read all my posts.

Die Hard and Rise of the Silver Surfer, also summer action flicks, were not even close to the lowbrow level of TF.

It's not art snob to ask for reasonable standards.

Dark Zarak wrote:Read all my posts before responding. I said
1. That I found other aspects of the movie enjoyable.
2. That I am only defending Moldavite because I see where he's coming from. I don't agree completely with him.

This post:

I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

right, so we've misunderstood you, and you dont agree with everything moldavite says, HOWEVER you do agree with everything moldavite says????? I think the thread is just going full on confusing.
Anyways, i find parts of the film irritating, but hell, im a cynical git and i find a lot of things irritating but even so, i dont rip a film apart because of a few things i dont like. Before you go on about liberal art quals and the like, i studied the media and disecting films and tv stuff, and yeah, there are parts that i think, hmmmmmmmm not quite sure about that, but then i stop thinking about it, and think poopers to it, its plain simple fun. As for spiderman and F4, dont even go there, they were so bad its not true, which pains me to say because i love spiderman, and F4 was once one of my fave comics

Am I the only one who went to the cinema, not expecting anything super Hitchcock/ Shakespeare/ super thought out movie, and just enjoyed what I saw without ruining the movie by trying to find a deeper meaning in a movie that is based of a toyline, financed by car/junk food companies and the US military?
Just what the **** was wrong with it?
It wasn't racist, why is it that everytime someone in a movie dies who isn't white make the movie racist? Can't I say the movie was racist cos loads of white people died while just one ore two black people died?
It's the same thing as with the new Resident Evil, it takes place on an African island, an island that is populated with Africans who turn into zombies, you want to survive and therefor have to kill the zombies, you can't have white zombies on an African island, cos it makes no sense, besides: Were there any black zombies in RE before?

Just please explain to me what exactly makes this movie racist and sexist.
The sexist part I may understand, but you have to admit, she kicked some serious but and could do things other woman in movies can't.

i think im right in saying that probably the 2 smartest people in the film were 1stly black, and the second was a female. I can see how reacist it was, and sexist........note the sarcasm. And yes DM, i went expecting a lot less than i got

Dark Zarak wrote:

***Galvatron*** wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:And yes, I will see the sequels, and yes I'll complain about them too.

I had the best laugh with this one above however!
I'm sure Bay and all the other card carrying racists that make these films will appreciate the extra money that you bring in for them but apparently since you believe so strongly in the things you've posted about this film already you are going to further support a low brow,racist,sexist,military propaganda franchise again ?.

Glad to see you stand behind your ideals and beliefs or do they just suit whichever side of the fence you may be on from day to day ?

Read all my posts before responding. I said
1. That I found other aspects of the movie enjoyable.
2. That I am only defending Moldavite because I see where he's coming from. I don't agree completely with him.

Actually, I did read all of your posts however either you stand by your beliefs and convictions or it seems rather hipocritical to me to say things like it's racist,sexist,military propaganda and so on then say you are going to watch, basically support such activities then if you do.

For example there is a store, a huge nationwide chain that I used to work for and I did not like their nasty tactics with employees and a whole host of other shady tactics that are too long to go into right now...point is that it's been almost twelve years since I worked for them and I have not once stepped foot into any of their stores contributing a penny to them. Just because you don't feel as strong about it as someone else means you can just basically turn your head to all of these things you feel are present in the film then ? as I said I feel that is hipocritical at best.

This post:

I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

No, I have no problem supporting it, because I don't believe that it matters in the long run. But I do agree the problem is there.

These are problems that do exsist to you but they are not important in the long run ? I'm honestly bewildered by that one... so what is the point in debating them if you feel they are not important ?

***Galvatron*** wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Moldavite obviously has a university level liberal arts education, as do I. I understand and agree with each and every point he's made, I just put a little less importance on it (but I do put some).

Art snob mentalities for a giant robot smashing summer film is simply expecting too much from a franchise based on a toy line.

Again, read all my posts.

Die Hard and Rise of the Silver Surfer, also summer action flicks, were not even close to the lowbrow level of TF.

It's not art snob to ask for reasonable standards

Those are your standards then but reasonable to you may not be reasonable for others...on that we can agree.

Dead Metal wrote:Am I the only one who went to the cinema, not expecting anything super Hitchcock/ Shakespeare/ super thought out movie, and just enjoyed what I saw without ruining the movie by trying to find a deeper meaning in a movie that is based of a toyline, financed by car/junk food companies and the US military?

Nope, that's how I went into the cinema.

It's how I go into all movies actually.

Burn wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Am I the only one who went to the cinema, not expecting anything super Hitchcock/ Shakespeare/ super thought out movie, and just enjoyed what I saw without ruining the movie by trying to find a deeper meaning in a movie that is based of a toyline, financed by car/junk food companies and the US military?

Nope, that's how I went into the cinema.

It's how I go into all movies actually.

Me too...I knew It was a summer popcorn movie with mass appeal (IE lowbrow humor would be there)

BumbleBee217 wrote:Whats disturbing is your comments. The movie was great and your complaint about product placement is garbage. The movie is supose to look and feel real. Well lets think for a sec...In real life there are xbox 360's real cars from real companys that make it seem like real life. Other then that "product placment" i dont get where your going with this. Im sick of people saying that with every movie. Thanks to the "product placment" That money helps pay for a part 2 which means more robots for us true fans which means more TRANSFORMERS. Companys pay for there product in a film which help money flow etc. People need to chill and enjoy the movie instead of acting like critics. The movie was fantastic and i love that BAY made this film real and not like giant toys with square blocks walking around jumping in the air and turning into guns. In the cartoon that was fine but for this century its not. Change is good and it made me very happy. And as far as the "slapstick" Im happy they added some humor to it. A lot of movies like this need some humor in it. Shia LaBeouf is great and was the perfect casting along with everyone else.

when was the last time you drove down the street and 99% of the vehicles there were from GM? How real is that

Burn wrote:

Dead Metal wrote:Am I the only one who went to the cinema, not expecting anything super Hitchcock/ Shakespeare/ super thought out movie, and just enjoyed what I saw without ruining the movie by trying to find a deeper meaning in a movie that is based of a toyline, financed by car/junk food companies and the US military?

Nope, that's how I went into the cinema.

It's how I go into all movies actually.

Same here.

The only ilms that I've gone to see in the last 10 years that I expected anything good from was "The Lord or the Rings" serries.

And I was not disappointed.

Pottermus_Prime wrote:right, so we've misunderstood you, and you dont agree with everything moldavite says, HOWEVER you do agree with everything moldavite says?????

No.

I agree with the ideas he is saying, the reasons why he doesn't like the movie, the existence of lowbrow bullshit in the movie. Those things are all true.

Therefore I decided to take his side in the debate.


But, I disagree as well, because (outside of this debate) I don't think these problems are enough to ruin the movie completely. The action still makes up for it in my mind.

That is what I am saying.

Dark Zarak wrote:

Pottermus_Prime wrote:right, so we've misunderstood you, and you dont agree with everything moldavite says, HOWEVER you do agree with everything moldavite says?????

No.

I agree with the ideas he is saying, the reasons why he doesn't like the movie, the existence of lowbrow bullshit in the movie. Those things are all true.

Therefore I decided to take his side in the debate.


But, I disagree as well, because (outside of this debate) I don't think these problems are enough to ruin the movie completely. The action still makes up for it in my mind.

That is what I am saying.

Then i fully apolagise. I found some things mentioned not to my liking, and i admit, the first time i watched it i was a bit on the fence, although i enjoyed it imensly, i wasnt sure if i would still be hyped about it 10 years later (like i still am with the 86 movie) but after watching it 20+ times since, it may not be anywhere near as good as the animated movie, it still ranks as one of my favourite all time films

why You wasted time to start a topic Like this, Only god knows...
Welcome to seibertron!!
Now get out of Seibertron!!:P

Ash wrote:why You wasted time to start a topic Like this, Only god knows...
Welcome to seibertron!!
Now get out of Seibertron!!:P

Ash don't be an ass. He's intitled to his opinion. I think he's wrong but there's no need to be rude.

Mrbond click on 'post reply'
And in the smilies area go to the smilie with its tongue out. click on it this > : D will come?
Now Please check the end of "Now Get out of seibertron" You'll see the same markings. a forum bug is not being rude.

Sorry its : P...

I loved the movie! First off i had no expectations and am very opened minded. With that being said the reason for the military influence in the movie is obviously money. Can you imagine the cost if the military did'nt help and they would'nt have gotten to use half of what was in Tfs if they had'nt. About the merchandising it's been like that in every high budget film as long as it can fit in with the movie somehow. I mean if Gm did'nt do it someone else would have and everyone would have been pissed if all the cars were say KIAS. It's a movie and a very entertaining one. Who would have thought in million years they would have made a TFs live action movie or for that matter a number of other movies LOTR, STAR WARS! Not me. I very much enjoyed this movie and in no way thought it was sexist, racist or full of military propaganda. It was'nt racist in 1984 when they had a black man voice Jazz and it's not racist now. I mean Jazz is a very loved character and may be back in the sequal because he was a fan fav. The spanish language thing also is'nt racist. One of my x girlfriends was Puerto Rican and originally from the Bronx and spoke Spanish. Every time i went to a party or over her house everyone spoke Spanish and i was the minority but i always tried to learn and they would always try to teach me. When she came over my house it was the same but reversed. People take things way to seriously and can't just sit back and enjoy a movie for what it is and not look into things too deeply. And if you can't poke fun at everyone or different topics sometimes then we're really getting out of hand. There's nothing like the healing power of laughter!

hear!!, hear!! words of wisdom..

Ash wrote:Mrbond click on 'post reply'
And in the smilies area go to the smilie with its tongue out. click on it this > : D will come?
Now Please check the end of "Now Get out of seibertron" You'll see the same markings. a forum bug is not being rude.

My bad didn't see it

Burn wrote:

***Galvatron*** wrote:They asked "Fig" to speak English because they did not speak Spanish NOT because they were racist but because they simply did not understand the language, come on people!

And as they were a military unit I think having everyone speaking a language everyone understood would pretty much be a pre-requisite.

This is just another case of people over analyzing this movie instead of sitting back and simply enjoying it.

What he said. If you're about to be shot, it's not going to help if the guy warning you is warning you in a language you don't understand.

moldavite wrote:I just saw the live-action Transformers movie on DVD with my friend last night. I could not believe all the xenophobic, racist, and sexist messages within it let alone those pertaining to military propaganda and product placement. Very disturbing indeed.

I suggest you write your concern to the studio paramount and Dreamworks. I found the same things you found out and I was very disapointed if not scared that this was the future of movies.

You know what I don't get? Why everyone is saying the "Black Robot" dies. The black robot doesn't die. Ironhide makes it all the way to the end of the movie. I don't see a black robot dying anywhere, unless you count Blackout as black, which he's more gray than black.

OK I'm gnna do it different now.
The Transformers movie is f**king racist!
In it just one black guy and one robot that acted like a douch died while thousends of white people died and Megatron, Blackout, Bonecrusher, Frenzy and the cute Nokia bot.
While all thease characters died just two blacks died, now thaT's what I call RACIST!

I agree with Optimus needing the military to help him, but only at a certain level. Optimus was getting his ass kicked by Megatron. You saw how the F-22 jets flew into Megatron and how the military helped him, but if you think about it Optimus was on a bad road to killing himself with the AllSpark. Come on now, do you really think the U.S. military would stand a chance against Megatron, they barely killed Scorponok...wait he didnt even die his tail came off!!! The one who really saved Optimus was Sam Witwicky. Optimus knew he was going to lose because he told Sam to put the cube into chest, but he put it into Megatron's chest. But overall Michael Bay did a fantastic job and I hope he does an even more better job in TF 2.