The Energon Pub

If this could somehow incorporate with MP 22, that would be PERFECT!

I know it can't, but I can hope can't I?

rpetras wrote:If this could somehow incorporate with MP 22, that would be PERFECT!

I know it can't, but I can hope can't I?

can MP10 pull the UM trailer? cause if so....

shajaki wrote:

rpetras wrote:If this could somehow incorporate with MP 22, that would be PERFECT!

I know it can't, but I can hope can't I?

can MP10 pull the UM trailer? cause if so....

No it can't but I'm going to put them on the shelf anyway.

Is this available yet?

shajaki wrote:

rpetras wrote:If this could somehow incorporate with MP 22, that would be PERFECT!

I know it can't, but I can hope can't I?

can MP10 pull the UM trailer? cause if so....

No, the truck bed on the MP-10 mold is too high in order to accommodate the proper proportions for the legs. Here's a comparison:

i see they went with a silver bumper...

i wonder what the possibilities of takara making a white MP10 are?

shajaki wrote:i see they went with a silver bumper...

i wonder what the possibilities of takara making a white MP10 are?

Next to nothing I think, with the release of both MP-02 and MP-22, both of which cover Ultra Magnus' possible forms.

And the makers putting down copyright information on their images is just plain bold.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
No, the truck bed on the MP-10 mold is too high in order to accommodate the proper proportions for the legs.

That truck bed on MP10 is one of the reasons I prefer the MP01 mold. But MP10 sure scales better.

Wasnt the whole point of MP-22 to eliminate that silly white prime ?

Not silly to some people, myself included...

Agamemnon wrote:Not silly to some people, myself included...

Even as a kid I always thought the "armor" was lazy and wanted to know why they didnt make it transform like the cartoon. It took 30 years for Hasbro to make good on that transformation. (too bad I dont collect MP) You could use him as Prime "insulated" from catching the hate plauge, but is that really a necessary homage in any display ? It's not like theres a bunch of red translucent figures in any scale to compliment the white Prime.

Ad a kid, I loved that UM was a white Prime inside an armor shell. But, then, I never actually had Optimus as a kid.

Just sayin', X, that not everyone shares your opinion, and it sometimes comes off as condescending...

Agamemnon wrote:Ad a kid, I loved that UM was a white Prime inside an armor shell. But, then, I never actually had Optimus as a kid.

Just sayin', X, that not everyone shares your opinion, and it sometimes comes off as condescending...

I dont think my comment came off in an offensive fashion. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. Its no secret im not a fan of vintage toy accuracy. While the cartoon had a lot of things that didnt make sense, it addressed alot of the issues that made the toys look too much like toys. The white prime with armor worked well for a toy, but really would have been awkward in the cartoon. The same thing goes for ironhide/ratchet diaclone robot mode. It was just too bizzare. And the mini bots being up to primes knees like the vintage toys would have looked really silly if they were that size in the cartoon. Granted some people love vintage toy accuracy because they have this "connection" to the toys they had as a kid. My connection is more to the cartoon and having the figures I never had as a kid because they didnt exist. Thats why Im so big on classics. For me classics are my G1. The vintage versions are more like a sideshow these days, not to be taken too seriously when compared to their updates which model closer to the cartoon. 1980s toy technologhy and aesthetics is not something I yearn to relive through modern engineering. Just my opinion, not trying to be offensive. As Ryan said earlier on the CW thread, if we all agreed on everything these forums wouldnt be so fun.

I don't mind disagreeing with you, X. It just appears that you don't ever take into consideration others' opinions. The 1980s was a very different time than today. What you call lazy was quite innovative for the time. Plus, Hasbro was taking a risk with the re-purposed Diaclone toys. Well, at the end, it appears that they were trying to ride the wave of popularity of transforming toys and getting whatever they could that was similar into their line.

The cartoon was a commercial for the toys. This is where the reasoning fails. As far as I recall, the toys came first then the animators tried to work them into the cartoon.

And I wasn't offended. But try to think of it from other people's perspective; what does it say when someone calls someone else's opinion "silly" when both are very valid? Just something to consider...

Back to this, while I do like it as a concept, and would maybe get my first MP-10 mold as UM, I feel a little icky about pursuing a KO. But I do have to admit, the paint applications are impressive for a KO. Depending on the plastic quality this could be a quality item. But, still, it's a KO...

Agamemnon wrote:I don't mind disagreeing with you, X. It just appears that you don't ever take into consideration others' opinions. The 1980s was a very different time than today. What you call lazy was quite innovative for the time. Plus, Hasbro was taking a risk with the re-purposed Diaclone toys. Well, at the end, it appears that they were trying to ride the wave of popularity of transforming toys and getting whatever they could that was similar into their line.

The cartoon was a commercial for the toys. This is where the reasoning fails. As far as I recall, the toys came first then the animators tried to work them into the cartoon.

And I wasn't offended. But try to think of it from other people's perspective; what does it say when someone calls someone else's opinion "silly" when both are very valid? Just something to consider...

Back to this, while I do like it as a concept, and would maybe get my first MP-10 mold as UM, I feel a little icky about pursuing a KO. But I do have to admit, the paint applications are impressive for a KO. Depending on the plastic quality this could be a quality item. But, still, it's a KO...

Well I never quoted anyones comment on this thread when I said this was "silly" so I wasnt responding to anyone elses opinion, just stating my own. One of the biggest problems with this site is if 4-5 people like something, the first person who doesnt like it is deemed a troll. (Im not saying youre calling me one here) On a side note, I totally forgot UM (trailer and all) was one of the last Diaclone molds worked into the Hasbro line. They picked an odd time to release that trailer considering every other character introduced the 1986 movie got its own Hasbro designed mold.

As far as KOs, open up your mind. High quality KOs are doing the fans a service by giving them obscure repaints and characters Hasbro has no plans of doing. I highly endorsed CHMS Rainmakers, Sunstorm, Purple seeker, Blue Diaclone Prime, SG City Commander, Black Death Starscream, etc. If you really like the white prime character then pop your KO cherry and buy it. Take advantage of the stuff Hasbro/Takara says you have no right to own because they dont want it to exist.

And out of pure curiousity, do you own MP-22 ? Or did you skip it because it didnt have the white prime ?

I own MP-22. I love it! I also own Titanium UM, and I love the engineering and transformation that went into it, especially considering the line it was in. (I also loved the Titanium take on Rodimus.) I am not opposed to having an UM that is not a white prime in armor. It's just that my first exposure to UM was when my cousin got one for his birthday. This was before I saw the movie. So I always thought UM was a white bot in armor. (Hence why I said that some of us don't think it's silly. That's why there was chatter, and hope, that MP UM was going to be a white Prime in armor. There's nothing wrong with that opinion, nor with wanting the opposite. Neither are really "silly" though...)

As far as KO, I'm not going to rehash the whole debate. Intellectual Property is an interesting monster to consider, especially from the many different perspectives. However, regardless of your arguments for the quality of KOs, it is still theft, which is something that bothers me a lot. It's not an artist's interpretation of a figure, it is an exact copy. That for me completely crosses the line into unethical territory.

Perhaps I justify the dive into 3P because I mostly get figures that don't already have a Classics Hasbro version. Yet, I almost always buy the Hasbro version when it does come out. I don't feel great about it. And some 3P stuff is truly innovative. (FP's Smart Robin is a prime example of outdoing Hasbro, in my opinion.)

But, KOs are just copies...

Agamemnon wrote:I own MP-22. I love it! I also own Titanium UM, and I love the engineering and transformation that went into it, especially considering the line it was in. (I also loved the Titanium take on Rodimus.) I am not opposed to having an UM that is not a white prime in armor. It's just that my first exposure to UM was when my cousin got one for his birthday. This was before I saw the movie. So I always thought UM was a white bot in armor. (Hence why I said that some of us don't think it's silly. That's why there was chatter, and hope, that MP UM was going to be a white Prime in armor. There's nothing wrong with that opinion, nor with wanting the opposite. Neither are really "silly" though...)

As far as KO, I'm not going to rehash the whole debate. Intellectual Property is an interesting monster to consider, especially from the many different perspectives. However, regardless of your arguments for the quality of KOs, it is still theft, which is something that bothers me a lot. It's not an artist's interpretation of a figure, it is an exact copy. That for me completely crosses the line into unethical territory.

Perhaps I justify the dive into 3P because I mostly get figures that don't already have a Classics Hasbro version. Yet, I almost always buy the Hasbro version when it does come out. I don't feel great about it. And some 3P stuff is truly innovative. (FP's Smart Robin is a prime example of outdoing Hasbro, in my opinion.)

But, KOs are just copies...

I agree with you about Smart Robin. But he still needs a face plate. I feel no guilt in buying 3rd party figures that “resemble” G1 characters. After 30 years the IP is pretty much community property. I see Transformers more as a “universe” than a brand. Everybody has an equal opportunity to contribute to the folklore and help keep its roots alive when it’s owner on paper fails to do so. On a separate note, it’s very likely we are only getting Combiner Wars because 3rd parties exist. Hasbro needed some motivation and competition drives a healthy economy.

There’s nothing wrong with a little KO talk on a KO thread I presume. I’m very liberal about this kind of stuff. I see old molds very similar to old books and movies in a library. They had their time in the box office and made a killing. Now it’s time to let them go back to the community and move on to another venture. Sure you can make a “2nd edition” like books or a re-release like movies for the hardcore fans and collectors. But everyone else will go to the library (physical or online) and enjoy the product without paying any royalties to the copyright holder. Once again competition drives a healthy economy and Hasbro needs some motivation in this area. Instead of having a silly fan built repaint combiner, Hasbro should have had a vote saying “which molds would you like us to re-issue and in which decos” ? CHMS was the spawn of Hasbro’s incompetence. Now high quality KO’s’s are carrying on into the MP line. It was only a matter of time before these new KO guys start offering MP molds in obscure decos Hasbro won’t make. And let’s not forget the Igear coneheads and the upcoming upsized MP Grimlock. If somebody will buy it, these Chinese guys will make it. Hasbro’s got the kids market. These KO’s are for us collectors from somebody who listens to our wants and makes them into a reality.

I never said I was opposed to talk of KO. (I did say I wouldn't rehash the same old KO arguments...) I was replying to this statement in particular:

Rated X wrote:As far as KOs, open up your mind. High quality KOs are doing the fans a service by giving them obscure repaints and characters Hasbro has no plans of doing.

This statement seems to be you telling me to open my mind on purchasing/collecting KOs. I justified why I do not like them. I didn't say that I did not like talking about them, nor advocated for not talking about them.

As far as community property rules and IP transitioning to them, you do realize that there are laws that govern this, right? It isn't up to us to decide some arbitrary amount of time. It is up to the government to decide some arbitrary amount of time.

So, you may feel that a significant amount of time has passed, and that some of the molds should be open to the community. I will say that as long as there are legal implications on why that is wrong, it is unethical to outright copy someone else's design. That's my opinion, and why I do not, in general, condone straight up KOs.

And in the fairness in disclosure realm, I do have to admit that I can only recall 2 KOs that I have. The first is one that I am not sure because I bought a loose and incomplete Megatron a great number of years ago off of Ebay that I am now pretty sure is a KO. When I sell some of my stuff of, I'll replace with a G1 or Encore version. (And, ouch says my wallet, which is why I will sell some of my current stuff.) The other was a Vehicle Voltron I picked up at Fleet Farm more than 20 years ago, so I thought it was more or less legit. I'm pretty sure that is a KO as well as some of the paint scheme isn't completely accurate to the toys.

And here I said I wasn't going to rehash this discussion...

So, yeah, this KO UM looks really great, but it still makes me feel queasy...

Agamemnon wrote:I never said I was opposed to talk of KO. (I did say I wouldn't rehash the same old KO arguments...) I was replying to this statement in particular:

Rated X wrote:As far as KOs, open up your mind. High quality KOs are doing the fans a service by giving them obscure repaints and characters Hasbro has no plans of doing.

This statement seems to be you telling me to open my mind on purchasing/collecting KOs. I justified why I do not like them. I didn't say that I did not like talking about them, nor advocated for not talking about them.

As far as community property rules and IP transitioning to them, you do realize that there are laws that govern this, right? It isn't up to us to decide some arbitrary amount of time. It is up to the government to decide some arbitrary amount of time.

So, you may feel that a significant amount of time has passed, and that some of the molds should be open to the community. I will say that as long as there are legal implications on why that is wrong, it is unethical to outright copy someone else's design. That's my opinion, and why I do not, in general, condone straight up KOs.

And in the fairness in disclosure realm, I do have to admit that I can only recall 2 KOs that I have. The first is one that I am not sure because I bought a loose and incomplete Megatron a great number of years ago off of Ebay that I am now pretty sure is a KO. When I sell some of my stuff of, I'll replace with a G1 or Encore version. (And, ouch says my wallet, which is why I will sell some of my current stuff.) The other was a Vehicle Voltron I picked up at Fleet Farm more than 20 years ago, so I thought it was more or less legit. I'm pretty sure that is a KO as well as some of the paint scheme isn't completely accurate to the toys.

And here I said I wasn't going to rehash this discussion...

So, yeah, this KO UM looks really great, but it still makes me feel queasy...

Fair enough...I get it. You abide by the laws by the book.

But in retrospect, think about all the labor laws that are broken by Hasbro in China to make the offical product. Also think about all the laws congress breaks because they think they are above the laws they make. Im not that rightous, I admit it.

Dude, straw men again, X....

Agamemnon wrote:Dude, straw men again, X....

If you want to call it that.

I call it looking at the bigger picture...

Let the powers that be lead by example and more people will follow.

Rated X wrote:

Agamemnon wrote:Dude, straw men again, X....

If you want to call it that.

I call it looking at the bigger picture...

Let the powers that be lead by example and more people will follow.

No, what I mean is that you are diverting the argument to avoid the issue at hand by introducing more stuff that is irrelevant...

Thinking if HasTak wants to release MP-10 in the White Ultra Magnus colors. HasTak can call this the Pre MP Magnus toy version. The Ultra addition could be explained he got called that when he got the armor.