The Energon Pub

[o.supreme]

All the criticisms on TF Wiki are pretty much valid. The only one I take exception to is the timing. If Hasbro really wanted to plan this series to sell toys, it would have been in production well in time for it to debut during the lines run between Summer of 2015 and Spring of 2016. I think it was truly intended, like most Marvel & DC animated films -to be a story that stood on its own merit, not needing the toys to generate interest. Unfortunately in that it failed miserably.

Also I had no idea Tatsunoko was somehow involved...I wonder if they outsourced this one to India...

[Kurona]

All the criticisms on TF Wiki are pretty much valid. The only one I take exception to is the timing. If Hasbro really wanted to plan this series to sell toys, it would have been in production well in time for it to debut during the lines run between Summer of 2015 and Spring of 2016. I think it was truly intended, like most Marvel & DC animated films -to be a story that stood on its own merit, not needing the toys to generate interest. Unfortunately in that it failed miserably.

While I suppose it's not out of the realms of possibility; it then brings forward the question of why it featured four combiners, had Starscream and Megatron in their CW Leader bodies; and was named after the toyline.

[o.supreme]

Why did Warner animation release a direct-to-dvd film, Superman-Doomsday, with animation models based on characters in that story, 13 years after the comic series had been released?

[Kurona]

Why did Warner animation release a direct-to-dvd film, Superman-Doomsday, with animation models based on characters in that story, 13 years after the comic series had been released?

Couldn't say; never even heard of it. I'm just going by Hasbro's own precedence here - especially since the CW series is so, so close to being in the toyline's timeframe that it feels much more likely that it was simply came late to the party.

[Fox Thiagarajan]

Windblade's personality is different to me compared to the comics imho. Far more aggressive compared to being a more compassionate character in the comics.

[karyuudo]

TFWiki has an analysis of the show, and it ain't pretty.

The criticism write up should be broken down a bit more in point form. It reads more like someone's opinion rather than just stating the facts. Maybe I'm just alone on this opinion, but I feel that a wiki should be neutral and simply fact based information for the public to read.

[Sabrblade]

TFWiki has an analysis of the show, and it ain't pretty.

The criticism write up should be broken down a bit more in point form. It reads more like someone's opinion rather than just stating the facts. Maybe I'm just alone on this opinion, but I feel that a wiki should be neutral and simply fact based information for the public to read.

It also really should have been written only after the show was done and over with, like what was done on the Wiki for the Criticisms section for each of the Unicron Trilogy cartoons.

And this isn't just me saying this. Back when the first version of the write up was written, some of the Wiki higher ups expressed their disappointment that those who wrote the write up didn't wait until after the show had finished.

[Sabrblade]

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

It's an average morning on Caminus
When combiners fall out of the sky

Computron is brawlin’ with Menasor

And ol’ Maxima’s gonna die

And it's gritty, mature, dark and edgy!
Adult Transformer shows are just great!
They got Youtube VAs, and they pay 'em okay,
even though this is seven months late

La la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum

Machinima, give us Combiner Wars
Give us a kerfuffle tonight
Well, we're all in the mood for a smackdown now,
Please skip to the big gestalt fight.


Now the Council is some kind of government
We never find out what they’re for
Hot Rod’s kinda lame and the Mistress of Flame
Makes a “doink” when her staff hits the floor
They say “We’ve got this weird super-powered thing”
And nobody knows what it does
Maybe it makes combiners, or it just makes ‘em finer,
And everyone wants it… because?

Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum

Now Prime is a shellshocked old veteran
He fought for ten million years
In the dark of the night he and Windblade must fight
But the audience is still bored to tears

And then Megatron joins with the Autobots
Cause we have ten more minutes to fill
He’s a ‘Con with some stigma, but he hates the Enigma
And his voice actor sounds like Cy-Kill

Machinima, give us Combiner Wars
Give us super robots tonight
Why did you bother to name it this
when there’s not a combiner in sight

And we finally get to the climax,
It’s lazy and rushed to all hell
Victorion’s sniped, even though she was hyped
As Space Jesus-slash-Buddha… oh well.
Oh and Starscream’s some weird giant floating thing
‘Cause the CG has run out of steam
He shrieks and he shouts as he thrashes about
And the plot falls apart at the seams

Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum

Machinima, what was Combiner Wars?
What was the point of all that?
They say it’s a clone of HBO’s Game of Thrones
But frankly the whole thing fell flat.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

TFWiki has an analysis of the show, and it ain't pretty.

I agree with that page surprisingly.

[Sunstar]

I am attempting to maintain an open mind, but so far... story has been short of confusing, too little time to tell what is going on. There is one more episode? this last one left me confused. It felt as if I walked in on a conversation.

points, I really feel the animation is good. The designs are nice, I think what would have been better done with the time spent would be to re-animate an original episode or two.

I hope to watch the full series end to end and see if it makes better sense that way next week.

[DedicatedGhostArt]

I am attempting to maintain an open mind, but so far... story has been short of confusing, too little time to tell what is going on. There is one more episode? this last one left me confused. It felt as if I walked in on a conversation.

points, I really feel the animation is good. The designs are nice, I think what would have been better done with the time spent would be to re-animate an original episode or two.

I hope to watch the full series end to end and see if it makes better sense that way next week.

It won't. It already ruined itself.

Another thing I want to point out again is that I had no time to connect with Windblade. Even though she has been a "major" part in every episode, her personality makes me feel like she's just a character in the background that needs a spanking. When she; well, I supposed "died" in this new episode, I was left thinking, "Oh, she was supposed to be important?"

[Sunstar]

I am attempting to maintain an open mind, but so far... story has been short of confusing, too little time to tell what is going on. There is one more episode? this last one left me confused. It felt as if I walked in on a conversation.

points, I really feel the animation is good. The designs are nice, I think what would have been better done with the time spent would be to re-animate an original episode or two.

I hope to watch the full series end to end and see if it makes better sense that way next week.

It won't. It already ruined itself.

Another thing I want to point out again is that I had no time to connect with Windblade. Even though she has been a "major" part in every episode, her personality makes me feel like she's just a character in the background that needs a spanking. When she; well, I supposed "died" in this new episode, I was left thinking, "Oh, she was supposed to be important?"

I just hate to be that person who... finds it disappointingly blah...

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

this is brilliant.

[Sabrblade]

I just hate to be that person who... finds it disappointingly blah...

No one likes to be disappointed, but it is a healthy thing to be able to recognize when something is a disappointment.

[King Kuuga]

TFWiki has an analysis of the show, and it ain't pretty.

The criticism write up should be broken down a bit more in point form. It reads more like someone's opinion rather than just stating the facts. Maybe I'm just alone on this opinion, but I feel that a wiki should be neutral and simply fact based information for the public to read.

It also really should have been written only after the show was done and over with, like what was done on the Wiki for the Criticisms section for each of the Unicron Trilogy cartoons.

And this isn't just me saying this. Back when the first version of the write up was written, some of the Wiki higher ups expressed their disappointment that those who wrote the write up didn't wait until after the show had finished.

I agree that it's a bit early for this, but it's there, and I felt like sharing.

Windblade's personality is different to me compared to the comics imho. Far more aggressive compared to being a more compassionate character in the comics.

It's not just your opinion, it's pretty clear to see that she's radically different from her comic personality.

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

That.... is amazing. I need someone to actually record this cover now.

[Madeus Prime]

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

That brought a tear to my eye.

[Decepticon Stryker]

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

That brought a tear to my eye.

That was beautiful. Now only if we had something to describe the Bay movies.

[karyuudo]

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

That brought a tear to my eye.

That was beautiful. Now only if we had something to describe the Bay movies.

A car accident in slow motion. Even though you know it's wrong to watch it, you can't help yourself at least once.

[1984forever]

Knew discussion of "bringing back the G1 cartoon" was coming. Been waiting to play the following card for some time now on the subject of continuing the G1 cartoon in this day and age: Jim Sorenson wrote the following about this very subject awhile back, explaining why continuing the G1 cartoon today wouldn't work at all:

Precisely. I just rewatched the last 4 minutes of The Rebirth and there's nothing there designed to lead the audience to believe that the series is meant to continue. The deliveries, the musical cues, the overall tone, and of course the Golden Age bit are all designed to make you feel a sense of satisfaction and conclusion. What dangling plot points that are left seem clearly to be of the "it never ends" variety, rather than the "tune in next week" variety.

But to address the larger issue, even if S4 didn't end with a very satisfying conclusion (though what I wouldn't give to be able to skip over to the parallel universe where they gave David Wise 5 episodes to accomplish all of this rather than three!) a direct sequel, today, would be a certain misfire. Consider.

It wouldn't SOUND like the G1 cartoon. Many of the vocal cast has passed on. Some no longer act. Some would just be prohibitively expensive. Wally Burr just had a serious stroke. So you'd be casting new people, with a new vocal director. Maybe the old music and sound effects could be dug up. Maybe. But the voices would certainly be different.

It wouldn't LOOK like the G1 cartoon. The animation industry has evolved. Would it be IMPOSSIBLE to make something look just like Sunbow? I suppose not. But no one's doing that right now, which means you'd have to relearn all those techniques. And that'd, again, be prohibitively expensive. Much much much more likely you'd bring in a modern studio using modern techniques and then get a modern looking cartoon. Maybe they'd use the old animation models. Maybe. But creative people like to put their own spin on things, as they should, and I suspect you'd get all the characters redesigned.

It wouldn't be WRITTEN like the G1 cartoon. Admittedly this would probably be the easiest one to get right, since guys like Wise and Dille are still around. But, as we saw with ReGeneration One, there's this weight of history and expectations that would be hard to resist. Had we gotten a full-on season 4 or a proper season 5 back in the day, the show would have continued to have a zany, episodic structure only loosely punctuated by a few tentpole continuity-heavy episodes. Were someone to try to revisit it now, there would be an overly big focus on the classic characters (the Bumblebees, Soundwaves, Galvatrons, Hot Rods, Grimlocks, etc) and not the new waves of toys we actually got in year 4 and 5. And there would be the temptation to make the series bigger, include season-long arcs and subplots, and that just wasn't how TV was written back them.

And a show that looks, sounds, and is structured differently than the G1 toon, well, it just wouldn't be the G1 toon, no matter what continuity it purports to be in. Better to just move on, make something that can be unabashedly, unashamedly new. If you must, MUST have more Sunbow, I'd suggest that a Dille / Guidi partnership could probably do a credible job of bringing it to the pages of a comic. But I think the whole idea is flawed and unnecessary.

-JimS

Sorenson has no idea what he's talking about. Everyone with common sense knows that it would be difficult to make a recreation/continuation of the G1 cartoon exactly as it was. I don't believe people are asking for that. What I think pro G1 cartoon people want is to see the G1 S1,2,3&4 line ups back in the Sunbow fictional universe, with TFTM levels of violence. Minus the casualties.

I don't want to see that CGI garbage thats in Prime, BW and CW. I want to see an actual cartoon using current animation techniques. I don't think people would mind a season long story arc, or a few sub plots. Just as long as it's not drawn out like in Prime.

Sorensons' comment about the idea being flawed and unnecessary is wrong. ALL Transformers shows after the G1 cartoon have failed to generate the excitement surrounding the brand that people experienced in '85, '86 and especially Christmas 1984. What fans of BW,Rid,Prime etc fail to realize is that as good as you believe these shows to be, more people say that the Sunbow stuff was better. And we vote with our wallets, which is why there is so much merchandise released based on a cartoon that wrapped 30 years ago.

Combiner Wars is a joke. And yes I believe that CW was late to the party. It was meant to sell the CW toys. After being told that the episodes would be released after the Combiner Wars toys were off the shelves somebody green lit it anyway. I spent money on the Constructicons and a few other figs that I felt were done right. Everything else I left to warm the pegs until it became an eyesore fit for Marshalls and the like.

Idw is a passing fad. They've put out comics for 10 years now, but the majority of their fans say that only the last 5 years are any good. CW fails because it follows a fad instead of the G1 source material.

[Tyrannacon]

I just found this amazing post written about the show, and just HAD to share it with you guys.

That is absolutely hilarious. Wonderful!

TFWiki has an analysis of the show, and it ain't pretty.

The criticism write up should be broken down a bit more in point form. It reads more like someone's opinion rather than just stating the facts. Maybe I'm just alone on this opinion, but I feel that a wiki should be neutral and simply fact based information for the public to read.

It also really should have been written only after the show was done and over with, like what was done on the Wiki for the Criticisms section for each of the Unicron Trilogy cartoons.

And this isn't just me saying this. Back when the first version of the write up was written, some of the Wiki higher ups expressed their disappointment that those who wrote the write up didn't wait until after the show had finished.

I am coming to the point of myself of seeing the Machinima's series in pretty much the same regard here. I defended it at first because I thought it would improve as it did have room to do that, but it did not and that is meh. So I definitely feel this is a creative matter on why it is not exactly good with the creative people ramping this up into something it is definitely not in the final product. I do think how short the episodes are how this thing totally under performed. So creatively, train wreck. It has some fun stuff, but that doesn't mean it is good.

Actor portrayal was somewhat decent for the most part - I did love this Megatron's characterizations specifically, I felt it was one of the positives. I am disappointed the Starscream's "change" was just a red herring overall with trying to atone for the past and clashed with the prelude video for him. That is just craptacular story-telling right there. I feel that's like a huge disservice you can do to your audience in some ways. It could've been very much hinted earlier that he was deceiving everyone and everything.

Animation, bleh. That is a bunch of bleh.

TFWiki is pretty accurate in their assessment as are folks that are in line with it and my overall opinion too. Basically I see it more constructive than a lot of the flailing about it in circles. I am disappointed it hasn't exactly improved from where it first started. There were ups and downs though with it, but now it is coming to a close it is definitely a downer - an epic sized one. I do still say the episodes are so short you have to watch it all in one sitting. Sometimes that does work, but definitely not in this case.

The Combiners themselves are I think get the greater disservice in the whole thing though. I never watched Energon, but if this is on the level of that? Bunch of meh right there.

[o.supreme]

I just rewatched the last 4 minutes of The Rebirth and there's nothing there designed to lead the audience to believe that the series is meant to continue. The deliveries, the musical cues, the overall tone, and of course the Golden Age bit are all designed to make you feel a sense of satisfaction and conclusion. What dangling plot points that are left seem clearly to be of the "it never ends" variety, rather than the "tune in next week" variety.

So Sorensen is right, and everyone that feels that "The Rebirth" was opened ended is wrong...because you know…he makes comics. Sorry not buying it. The reason why Combiner Wars fails has nothing to do with similarities to the original series, for which I find none in CW. It’s this toy/IDW amalgamated monstrosity that can only be defined as in a world of its own. Galvatron’s last line... "We will attack other planets! We will suck them dry! We will build a planet a hundred times more powerful than Cybertron and I WILL RULE THE GALAXY!!!"
Yep...nothing more to see here...nope.

But to address the larger issue, … a direct sequel, today, would be a certain misfire. Consider.
It wouldn't SOUND like the G1 cartoon. Many of the vocal cast has passed on. Some no longer act. Some would just be prohibitively expensive. Wally Burr just had a serious stroke. So you'd be casting new people, with a new vocal director. Maybe the old music and sound effects could be dug up. Maybe. But the voices would certainly be different.

“Many” is an exaggeration…more like a handful. We still have most of the primary players, and enough respectable talented VA’s to stand in for the ones who have passed on. Death didn’t stop Looney Tunes, The Flinstones, Scooby-Doo, or even The Muppets need I go on? As for Wally Burr yes his deteriorating health is unfortunate, but Sue Blu (who worked with Burr) has proven herself, and Andrea Romano is the best in the business, I’d trust either of them with the task..as for the financial aspect, I guess I can’t really argue that, which is sad, it should happen money be damned. In actuality, if The Return of Optimus Prime had been the end, that would have been a better ending. "The War" was in question since Galvatron and Prime had been forced to work together, and Prime had basically saved literally everyone. Honestly though...I have been content to let Headmasters, Masterforce, & Victory be the original series continuation we should have had. I've posted this in other threads, but I've actually known about these series since their beginning, so I believe my feelings are valid. Sure, if Rebirth never happened, I would have loved to see animated forms of the 87 toy line, but I wanted them for the 88, and 89 line as well...and only Japan delivered in that fashion (and no I'm not counting a few seconds of commercial animation from Hasbro)

It wouldn't LOOK like the G1 cartoon. The animation industry has evolved. Would it be IMPOSSIBLE to make something look just like Sunbow? I suppose not. But no one's doing that right now, which means you'd have to relearn all those techniques. And that'd, again, be prohibitively expensive. Much much much more likely you'd bring in a modern studio using modern techniques and then get a modern looking cartoon. Maybe they'd use the old animation models. Maybe. But creative people like to put their own spin on things, as they should, and I suspect you'd get all the characters redesigned.

I'll use an example- Gundam Unicorn is the first return to the Universal Century story since it was departed from in 1994, and is one of the most universally acclaimed series in recent years. If we did a return to the Original Transfomers and it looked half as good, I don’t think anyone would complain. What I would like to see however is one of three things... Obviously an animated series that takes place during the 20 year span between S2 and TF:TM...or, fully animated versions of Zone, Return of Convoy/Battlestars, and Operation: Combination...or lastly...a series that takes place in the 300 year gap between Operation: Combination & Beast Wars (obviously leading up to the latter).

It wouldn't be WRITTEN like the G1 cartoon. Admittedly this would probably be the easiest one to get right, since guys like Wise and Dille are still around. But, as we saw with ReGeneration One, there's this weight of history and expectations that would be hard to resist. Had we gotten a full-on season 4 or a proper season 5 back in the day, the show would have continued to have a zany, episodic structure only loosely punctuated by a few tentpole continuity-heavy episodes. Were someone to try to revisit it now, there would be an overly big focus on the classic characters (the Bumblebees, Soundwaves, Galvatrons, Hot Rods, Grimlocks, etc) and not the new waves of toys we actually got in year 4 and 5. And there would be the temptation to make the series bigger, include season-long arcs and subplots, and that just wasn't how TV was written back them.

The main reasons why Bumblebee, Grimlock etc…are used so often is because of the demands of the parent company. Takara/Toei departed from this bringing in new leaders each year, and it seemed to do well. Admittedly, I think you would probably want to keep Optimus & Megatron/Galvatron around as much as possible, but seeing the 1987-1989 characters take precedence would not be a bad thing, depending on when the series was set. If it was set between 1986-2005 then you would have most of the 84/85 toyline everyone loved, perhaps even a chance to properly introduce characters featured in TF:TM. If it was set in the far future, you could actually have Megatron & Prime return, since after all their many deaths and reformatting’s, they could easily be “reset’ to something close to original design.

If you must, MUST have more Sunbow, I'd suggest that a Dille / Guidi partnership could probably do a credible job of bringing it to the pages of a comic. But I think the whole idea is flawed and unnecessary. -JimS

I respectably disagree; based on my counterpoints I think it would be amazing, but I recognize because of cost (Hasbro is too cheap), and their unwillingness to look back it will never happen. A comic might be nice, but then all the Original Series naysayers would just pick-it-apart. Leave animation to animation, and comics to comics. I guess the point is...I do not agree that it would be "awful" in and of itself. I do agree that the powers that be think it would be too expensive, and that may be true, and if so that is sad. So we are left with fans, cobbling together footage from the existing series, and making Youtube videos BETTER than what has been presented in CW. It’s kind of depressing when you think about what could be...but what never will.

[Braker]

This episode gave me the worst case of indigestion I've ever had.

[karyuudo]

Knew discussion of "bringing back the G1 cartoon" was coming. Been waiting to play the following card for some time now on the subject of continuing the G1 cartoon in this day and age: Jim Sorenson wrote the following about this very subject awhile back, explaining why continuing the G1 cartoon today wouldn't work at all:

Precisely. I just rewatched the last 4 minutes of The Rebirth and there's nothing there designed to lead the audience to believe that the series is meant to continue. The deliveries, the musical cues, the overall tone, and of course the Golden Age bit are all designed to make you feel a sense of satisfaction and conclusion. What dangling plot points that are left seem clearly to be of the "it never ends" variety, rather than the "tune in next week" variety.

But to address the larger issue, even if S4 didn't end with a very satisfying conclusion (though what I wouldn't give to be able to skip over to the parallel universe where they gave David Wise 5 episodes to accomplish all of this rather than three!) a direct sequel, today, would be a certain misfire. Consider.

It wouldn't SOUND like the G1 cartoon. Many of the vocal cast has passed on. Some no longer act. Some would just be prohibitively expensive. Wally Burr just had a serious stroke. So you'd be casting new people, with a new vocal director. Maybe the old music and sound effects could be dug up. Maybe. But the voices would certainly be different.

It wouldn't LOOK like the G1 cartoon. The animation industry has evolved. Would it be IMPOSSIBLE to make something look just like Sunbow? I suppose not. But no one's doing that right now, which means you'd have to relearn all those techniques. And that'd, again, be prohibitively expensive. Much much much more likely you'd bring in a modern studio using modern techniques and then get a modern looking cartoon. Maybe they'd use the old animation models. Maybe. But creative people like to put their own spin on things, as they should, and I suspect you'd get all the characters redesigned.

It wouldn't be WRITTEN like the G1 cartoon. Admittedly this would probably be the easiest one to get right, since guys like Wise and Dille are still around. But, as we saw with ReGeneration One, there's this weight of history and expectations that would be hard to resist. Had we gotten a full-on season 4 or a proper season 5 back in the day, the show would have continued to have a zany, episodic structure only loosely punctuated by a few tentpole continuity-heavy episodes. Were someone to try to revisit it now, there would be an overly big focus on the classic characters (the Bumblebees, Soundwaves, Galvatrons, Hot Rods, Grimlocks, etc) and not the new waves of toys we actually got in year 4 and 5. And there would be the temptation to make the series bigger, include season-long arcs and subplots, and that just wasn't how TV was written back them.

And a show that looks, sounds, and is structured differently than the G1 toon, well, it just wouldn't be the G1 toon, no matter what continuity it purports to be in. Better to just move on, make something that can be unabashedly, unashamedly new. If you must, MUST have more Sunbow, I'd suggest that a Dille / Guidi partnership could probably do a credible job of bringing it to the pages of a comic. But I think the whole idea is flawed and unnecessary.

-JimS

Sorenson has no idea what he's talking about. Everyone with common sense knows that it would be difficult to make a recreation/continuation of the G1 cartoon exactly as it was. I don't believe people are asking for that. What I think pro G1 cartoon people want is to see the G1 S1,2,3&4 line ups back in the Sunbow fictional universe, with TFTM levels of violence. Minus the casualties.

I don't want to see that CGI garbage thats in Prime, BW and CW. I want to see an actual cartoon using current animation techniques. I don't think people would mind a season long story arc, or a few sub plots. Just as long as it's not drawn out like in Prime.

Sorensons' comment about the idea being flawed and unnecessary is wrong. ALL Transformers shows after the G1 cartoon have failed to generate the excitement surrounding the brand that people experienced in '85, '86 and especially Christmas 1984. What fans of BW,Rid,Prime etc fail to realize is that as good as you believe these shows to be, more people say that the Sunbow stuff was better. And we vote with our wallets, which is why there is so much merchandise released based on a cartoon that wrapped 30 years ago.

Combiner Wars is a joke. And yes I believe that CW was late to the party. It was meant to sell the CW toys. After being told that the episodes would be released after the Combiner Wars toys were off the shelves somebody green lit it anyway. I spent money on the Constructicons and a few other figs that I felt were done right. Everything else I left to warm the pegs until it became an eyesore fit for Marshalls and the like.

Idw is a passing fad. They've put out comics for 10 years now, but the majority of their fans say that only the last 5 years are any good. CW fails because it follows a fad instead of the G1 source material.

I have to respectfully disagree with several parts of your statement.

Jim Sorenson's opinion is very valid and relevant, While it may not be the only way to look at why we shouldn't go back and continue G1, I would definitely he's on the right track. I, myself, would love to see a continuation of G1 past Season 4 - but that's a pipe dream, so I'll simply be content with the Japanese G1 universe.

In terms of TF series failing to gain excitement... until Beast Wars came along, Transformers was pretty much dead. And while I personally didn't get into Beast Wars until the second season, the show gave us some great story telling and a blue print that even if it was a kids show, you could write about mature themes that both kids and adults could understand. Whether you like / hate Beast Wars, you have to recognize that it's because of that show, that Transformers is still alive today. I think most of the G1 nostalgia out there weighs heavily on TF: The Movie due to the impact it had on the kids at that time.

In regards to your comment about CGI being garbage, I don't agree with that simply because it's just another form of media to tell a story. As much as I love hand-drawn animation, you're only going to have a good looking production if the in-between animators are able to draw the characters consistent. Just look at some of the poor hand drawn animation in G1.

[1984forever]

So many people believe that without Beast Wars we wouldn't have Transformers today.

Nostalgia would have brought Transformers back eventually... without the Beast Wars stain.

Hasbro is starting to wake up. It's why we got things like "Devastation". Platinum could have easily made a video game based on idw, but they knew it would only appeal to a niche market.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

:lol: So many people believe that without Beast Wars we wouldn't have Transformers today.

Nostalgia would have brought Transformers back eventually... without the Beast Wars stain.

Hasbro is starting to wake up. It's why we got things like "Devastation". Platinum could have easily made a video game based on idw, but they knew it would only appeal to a niche market.

And yet... things like Fall of Cybertron sold 105,000 copies in it's first week and to date has sold 860,000 copies on 3 platforms, whereas Devastation has sold, total, 570,000 copies on 5 platforms. And Fall of Cybertron got a recent re-release, and it was critically better received. (http://www.vgchartz.com/game/85656/tran ... vastation/, http://www.vgchartz.com/game/70351/tran ... cybertron/, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transform ... _Cybertron, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformers:_Devastation)

And also, Generation 2 flopped, and then Beast Wars came and the spark was reignited. How many other 80's TV shows have yet to be redone, to have nostalgia bring them back to the front? What if, instead of Beast wars, we had let Transformers go and the cartoon was gold and no one wanted to touch it for fear of anything ruining it, similar to how you don't touch classic films like Back to the Future. Or, what if Transformers had tried to have a reboot like it did, but it had flopped like when they tried redoing Charlies angels or Knight Rider.

It worked. Beast Wars did bring Transformers back, and besides the whole point is Shape-shifting robots. One would think that the original cast of like 50 or so combined robots could be expanded and given new depth. Every franchise has a flop or so, as this appears to be one, but ya learn and move on.

[DarkEnergon]

Transformers has a good bit of continuity fatigue. A universe that is constantly being rebooted, reimagined, oft-times in parallel. Between the comics, RiD cartoon and movies, we have three versions out right now - (I don't count rescue bots - they can cleverly fit into almost any continuity if you just look at it as being designed with a different look and feel).

The truth is, what we all love about transformers is the characters - and we don't fully mind mind the competing continuities because we love seeing how our favorite characters are interpreted in the next world. When our favorite characters get basically turned into new characters, even if they are awesome like prime Wheeljack, it's not always welcome.

This series takes Windblade and inexplicably turns her into IDW Arcee.

One thing I love about IDW - as inconsistent as its universe is with the stories from the G1 era - the characterizations more often than not totally echo the original cartoon/comics, and often will directly reference the character profiles from the marvel universe yearbooks or toy tech specs.

That's what I disliked about Bayverse - my favorite characters were not characters at all, just like, really cool weapons from outer space.