Sadly, to the majority of the world, a toy is a toy no matter what kind of label is slapped on its box, or what kind of market it is sold to.Convoy wrote:Remarkable.
Why can't it just be rated, "M" for mature? Just restrict the sale to children, like, I don't know, like cigarettes!?
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:It is disappointing to see how at this point there are still people who think Philip Morris USA is the main force behind this toy's inability to be sold to U.S. consumers, when it is actually a much greater force at work here: The United States government.
No joke, no crazy conspiracy theories; this toy cannot be sold to U.S. consumers not because of some IP infringement or something, but because doing so would be a U.S. Federal law violation.
Under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement and the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, it is illegal for any company to sell any product to U.S. consumers if said product even remotely gives off the slightest minuscule impression of advertising tobacco-based goods to children.
While we fans know good and well that that's not the intention behind this figure's existence at all, no matter how much we may try to separate our hobby from being mere children's playthings and instead being "collectibles" for adults, the courts WILL consider this thing a "toy" and WILL consider its Marlboro-homaging deco as advertisement of tobacco-based goods on that which they consider to be a children's product.
As small-minded and ignorant as that sounds, the world we live in is still not yet ready to accept the reality of adults who buy and collect toys, as the concept is still fairly new and infantile in the grand scheme of things.
If this toy were to be sold to U.S. consumers, it is Philip Morris USA who would face federal charges for allowing their brand of tobacco goods to be advertised on a children's product, regardless of whether it would be their direct fault for making the toy or not. They would still be at fault for letting it happen, and the courts would most assuredly see that they suffer the consequences of TakaraTomy's actions.
If we put things into perspective, it really isn't Philip Morris USA's fault that TakaraTomy decided to make this toy, but it's their hide on the line here, not Takara.
Had Takara decided to not be so faithful to the real life car's deco in the first place, instead going the route of Hyperspeed Wheeljack by using a deco that gives off only the vaguest hint of the Marlboro chevron, then it is far less likely that Philip Morris USA would have made such a fuss over this toy in the first place since a deco like Hyperspeed Wheeljack's wouldn't be deemed by the U.S. federal courts as something that might be trying to advertise tobacco-based goods on a children's toy.
Even the changes that Takara made to the deco after the fact might have possibly let this toy come to America had they gone with that changed deco from the start. But since they didn't, and had instead begun with the Marlboro-accurate deco, the deco changes came too little too late for them to fix this toy's situation. As soon as word hit everyone's radar that this toy was meant to resemble the Marlboro-sponsored racecar, this toy was forever doomed to its current fate.
The only possible way this toy could be sold to U.S. consumers at this late in the game would be for its deco to be given an extreme, radical, drastic alteration to its deco to make it almost completely dissimilar to the look of the real life Marlboro racecar. Like, by getting rid of the entire amount of its red paint altogether, or something. But that simply isn't economically financially feasible for Takara to do at this point, what with the toy virtually ready and set to go on the Japanese market.
The global embargo was more Hasbro's doing than PM since those non-U.S. Hasbro markets that tend to import Takara figures are imported by those foreign branches of Hasbro itself, like Hasbro Asia and Hasbro Australia. Hasbro's foreign branches' not carrying this figure is similar to BBTS's and other retailers' not carrying the figure. And while all of them can't sell it because of PM, PM can't let them sell it because of the federal laws prohibiting it.durroth wrote:That's all well and good Sabrblade, and it was the impetus for this whole thing, but PM went well beyond due diligence, almost excessively. Look at the aftermath. We don't have a ban on selling to the US. We have what seems to be a complete stop on shipments ANYWHERE outside japan. We have effectively gone from an embargo on imports to the US to an almost global ban. There is no part of a scorched earth aftermath that doesn't indicate PM's efforts were in drastic excess of their legal obligations.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
No, it isn't verbatim, but a paraphrasing on my part. But as far as the courts are concerned, any merchandise they deem to be a "toy" would be considered merchandise meant to be sold to children, regardless of who its intended demographic really is. Even if it's being sold to adults, they will come down on PM for letting it be sold, period, because it is perceived as merchandise meant for children.fenrir72 wrote:Sabrblade posted
Under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement and the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, it is illegal for any company to sell any product to U.S. consumers if said product [b]even remotely gives off the slightest minuscule impression of advertising tobacco-based goods to children.
If that is the verbatim ruling, the more my thesis on selling would be most applicable.
Don't sell to children, even remotely. Check.
Again, I mentioned an overseas company selling a non transforming model of Lancia Malboro (well slightly modified patterns to be exact). (Same as Exhaust with modified decal/stamp graph)
Don't sell to children........process the transaction via Credit Card. The root of this all is selling to children is it not?
If the transaction is NOT at all sanctioned by Hasbro, well fine. They want to play safe, understandable but the way this is being handled borders to hysterically stupid.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement and the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, it is illegal for any company to sell any product to U.S. consumers if said product even remotely gives off the slightest minuscule impression of advertising tobacco-based goods to children.
Comic books aren't considered children's merhandise anymore.Rated X wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement and the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, it is illegal for any company to sell any product to U.S. consumers if said product even remotely gives off the slightest minuscule impression of advertising tobacco-based goods to children.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
sol magnus wrote:Hmm...Sabrblade posits the laws regarding Tobacco product marketing is the real reason behind PM's argent pursuit of this matter, but it can't be ALL the reason - if it were the term "trademark infringement" would not have been used.
PM wasn't making a dime off of licensing of their "brand" via this toy. The quotes are there because Exhaust never specifically uses the Marlboro name, but heavily references the design.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:sol magnus wrote:Hmm...Sabrblade posits the laws regarding Tobacco product marketing is the real reason behind PM's argent pursuit of this matter, but it can't be ALL the reason - if it were the term "trademark infringement" would not have been used.
PM wasn't making a dime off of licensing of their "brand" via this toy. The quotes are there because Exhaust never specifically uses the Marlboro name, but heavily references the design.
One reason is used to cover up the other. The change in design may have made the trademark infringement itself practically moot, but the other claim still stands.
To make a long story short, the major problem is the US legislation regarding merchandise referencing tobacco products. All Phillip Morris is doing is acting upon it by trying to eliminate any possible lead to the company via Exhaust (first citing "trademark infringement" to get TakaraTomy to radically change the design and remove the connection). Given he's directly based on the Diaclone figure that bares the Marlboro marks, which is part of its appeal to the hardcore fans, that'll be hard to do.
Sabrblade wrote:Comic books aren't considered children's products anymore.Rated X wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Under the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement and the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, it is illegal for any company to sell any product to U.S. consumers if said product even remotely gives off the slightest minuscule impression of advertising tobacco-based goods to children.
Nor are PG-13 movies.
And that thing on Human Alliance Jazz's packaging isn't advertising anything.
I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Cobotron wrote:Hey! You seemed to have attracted a wild Megatronus. They're hard to find, but boy are they fun when you catch one!
Sabrblade wrote:I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Sabrblade wrote:I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Rated X wrote:Sabrblade wrote:I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Who legally owns the MP Wheeljack mold ? If there was a dispute between Hasbro and Takara/Tomy, who would wint rights to that mold (or any mold) in court ?
I was under the assumption that Hasbro runs the show and "allows" Takara/Tomy to do their thing. (Hence Hasbro Asia Divison and the molds being stored in China, not Japan) Correct me if Im wrong.
The Masterpiece line is all Takara's baby, as it was Takara's idea. Hasbro's fine with Takara making it, but it's all Takara whose behind that particular line.Rated X wrote:Sabrblade wrote:I think you mean TakaraTomy, not Hasbro, since this toy is all Takara's doing.Rated X wrote:Hasbro's big bad leagal department turned into a bunch of pu**ys. They should have taken Phill Morris to court, for sure they would have won.
Who legally owns the MP Wheeljack mold ? If there was a dispute between Hasbro and Takara/Tomy, who would wint rights to that mold (or any mold) in court ?
I was under the assumption that Hasbro runs the show and "allows" Takara/Tomy to do their thing. (Hence Hasbro Asia Divison and the molds being stored in China, not Japan) Correct me if Im wrong.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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