The Energon Pub

who here has some strange notions that megatron is more patriotic than optimus in the movie trilogy? while he did instigate a civil war which claimed the lives of thousands bsaed on optimus' actions(destroy the allspark plan, destruction of the solar harverster...), megs cares more about the cybertronians than optimus. while it maybe contradictory... i think megatron would find pity on what happened to bumblebee during the first movie because he almost experienced what megatron experienced at the hands of humans for decades. though that is mere speculation, but compare that to optimus' on-screen reaction to bumblebee's capture...

while it was a one-sided solution, megatron did present a viable way to end the war then and now (again, he did start it so it's fitting he should end it).

Were talking about the same Megatron that ripped Jazz in two and Stabbed Prime in the back right?

And Prime in the first movie said I'm sorry brother, but you left me no choice as Megs was dying.

People are always saying Prime showed a lack of care when Jazz was killed. And Ironhide. But after the third movie I think he had enough.

At the end of the third film, yes he was beaten down and weak but..... whats that saying. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.... I think Prime was done with being fooled. In ROTF where Megs said isn't one life worth our entire race? And prime said you'll never stop at just one. What if that one life was you?

If Megs and prime would have walked away hand in hand..... yeah, bravo Prime and Megs, but this was the ending Bay ran with.

megatron was a maniac.
his hunger for power was to destroy and dominate.
throughout all his egoistic behavior he seemed to care more for their home-planet cybertron than Optimus Prime ever did.
certainly that wouldn't justify his action to tyrannize the world. and same goes for Sentinel Prime.

at least they aren't that selfless like Optimus Prime.

Yeah, after thinking about this one again I'd have to say years, decades, centuries... whatever of being a terrorist/villian/backstabber and a movie covering a short time period of you playing on the edge of villian/nice guy doesn't make you a nice guy.

And Megs line at the end..... where would you be without me?.... oh lets see.... sitting back on cybertron that wasn't destroyed by war.

I'd like to see some fan though put up a spoof interview with the 3 Prime, Megs and Sentinel and there.... "real intentions" on youtube if done right could be hilarious.

Megatron's cause may have been just at one time, but his goals became corrupt with his rise to power. Starscream suffered a similar degrading of ideals.

You ask if Megatron is a Patriot or a Maniac, in truth he is both. He still thinks that his end goal of Cybertron's rebirth justifies the horrific means that he's attempted.

i say both, for patriotism is a form of madness

Where would Prime be without Megatron?

Back on Cybertron in a golden age, his planet at peace and the hub of a mighty empire that probably spans the galaxy.

shamone wrote:i say both, for patriotism is a form of madness

Only in excess. As it is with pretty much anything ans before that, we have obsession.

Megs is pretty much there, though.

Cybertron was a flourishing planet where everyone lived in peace and harmony. The planet now lies in ruins and most of it's inhabitants are dead because of Megatron. He's not patriotic - he's a tyrant. This could not be more obvious. I'm not really sure why people are all of a sudden thinking he's some sort of good guy.

The way I see it both Optimus and Megatron care about Cybertron.
Megatron would stop at nothing to see his planet restored even if that meant the destruction of countless other civilizations. To Megatron the restoration of Cybertron is the only thing that matters. If he was the one that saved Cybertron then he would be the new ruler of it. From the prequel comics I read, The Fallen is the one who egged Megatron on to start the war, but I don't really remember why. Megatron I see as a maniac, but to him he thinks he is being a patriot. Megatron sees a justification in his actions. He doesn't think he is wrong. In fact he thinks he is helping the planet, but infact his real motivation is to help the planet so he can rule as a tyrant.

Optimus on the other hand wants to restore Cybertron, but not at the cost of another civilization. He has more in common with the ancient Primes which is why he is deserving of his title. Optimus believes that all right is sacred and any who stand in the way of that deserve to be stopped. He is not willing to sacrifice any intelligent life form for the survival of another. Megatron probably thinks Optimus is stubborn and a traitor to stand up for the "fleshlings" over his own kind.

To put it short, Megatron wants cybertron restored in order to rule over it and will stop at nothing to see this happen. Optimus wants Cybertron restored but not if that means sacrificing another race in the process. This is why he destroys the All-Spark, Sun harvester and Space Bridge pillars.

i think that megatron's methods were flawed but he does care about cybertron (mainly because he probably thinks it's HIS) because rather than leave and settle else where, he;d rather bring it back from ruin... then again they're cybertronians... kinda makes you look bad if you're a conquering empire and your home planet is a dump.


back then they were an empire...so would that mean they were expanding militarily?



and anyone get the joke based on the topic title?

I would have to say he is a radical because he would give everything to get his Cybertron back for him to rule. If you are strictly loyal to cybertron then you would have to side with cybertron because prime keeps stopping the restoration of cybertron because in order to do so it would involve wiping out another race. Prime won't allow their war to effect any other races as much as he can but, Megatron will stop at nothing to get Cybertron back for him to rule. His intentions may have been pure in the beginning but complete power corrupts completely.

More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Hell, I heard somebody said that the prequel material shows the war only happening because Optimus was jealous to give Megatron the authority over the cybertronians that Prime got from Sentinel.

Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.

Bleak5170 wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.

Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc

dirk2243 wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.

Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc

most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive

shamone wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.

Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc

most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive

Key there is "they believe"! and I'd say that only makes them patriotic in there own mind.

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:

Chaoslock wrote:More patriotic than Optimus in the movieverse, that's sure. He did everything he could for a chance of his planets and his races' survival, while Prime would left all of them to slowly dying.

Huh? Megatron was responsible for completely decimating what was once a healthy, thriving planet, and the deaths of most of it's inhabitants. The only thing he cared about was tyranny and ruling everyone with an iron fist. He's the complete opposite of "patriotic". People who are patriotic love their country - they don't destroy it.

Yeah, how can you start a war on a peaceful planet in which you had 50% of the leadership in and call yourself a patriot? I'm thinking Dictator... power hungry.... selfish... jealous....etc, etc, etc

most dictators are patriotic though

they beleive that there way is the only way for their country men to prosper and survive

Key there is "they believe"! and I'd say that only makes them patriotic in there own mind.

thats the point, patriotism is a stat of mind, its not tangible

Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

shamone wrote:

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....

i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot

shamone wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....

i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot

I agree with you about hitler (in his mind) But for Osama it was about a religion which is idealy bigger right, then a country? Wanting Westerners out of Muslim countries? And yet, his thoughts wern't in line with actual Muslim teachings. I think (and my opinion) that he saw himself as a patriot for the Muslim cause, yet he seemed to shift his teachings around to fit his needs.

Reminds me a bit of Hitler.... Aryan race supremacy, Communism needs to be crushed.

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:

shamone wrote:

paul053 wrote:Justice comes with victory. Winner makes their own history.

If Megatron wins, he is a patriot. Since he lost, he is just a maniac or even a moron. Patriots or winners don't listen to a skinny hotdog lip girl.

this

Prime himself says to Sentinel when he ask did they win the war he said no.

Patriotism is in the eyes of the beholder. Osama Bin Laden and his followers think there patriots. I do not share there same idea's and do not see them as patriots.

so....if you see megs as a patriot....thats your point of view...if not.....

i think i see your point, but osama wouldnt consider himself a patriot,its not about nation for him tbf

but yeh hitler was a patriot

I agree with you about hitler (in his mind) But for Osama it was about a religion which is idealy bigger right, then a country? Wanting Westerners out of Muslim countries? And yet, his thoughts wern't in line with actual Muslim teachings. I think (and my opinion) that he saw himself as a patriot for the Muslim cause, yet he seemed to shift his teachings around to fit his needs.

Reminds me a bit of Hitler.... Aryan race supremacy, Communism needs to be crushed.

im not saying osama wasnt following a cause, just that patriotism refers to nations. osama equivalent is probably a religious zealout

islam (his version) transcends nationhood as nations are seen as anti islam