The Energon Pub

Even in science fiction there still has to be boundaries to make it believable, and I think this is less so much about nit-picking as it is about inconsistency.

prowl24 wrote:Maybe the big Allspark was just an illusion made by Mirage.

Impossible...

Auto Bot wrote:Well, you still got to respect some physics laws and scientific theories.

Agree ^_^

Auto Bot wrote:Otherwise, it wouldn't be science-fiction. But only, just plain fiction.

Agree for that one too.

From the new ILM article:

"QUESTION: What is the ratio or car-to-robot? It would appear that the robots contain much more material than could actually fit into their car form.

FARRAR: It's a cheat. There is scaling up and down and sizes of parts may increase or decrease in going from the car to the transformed robot. The upshot was that we added a tremendous amount of parts and pieces beyond our first designs. Optimus got a huge layering of parts. Again, you're making a movie, so you're always judging what you're creating by what the camera sees, so you're constantly saying, 'Oh, we need a hubcab here, a clutch-plate there.' We had to add a lot of movement that we didn't anticipate in the beginning. "

ARRRRRRRRG

Starscream wrote:From the new ILM article:

"QUESTION: What is the ratio or car-to-robot? It would appear that the robots contain much more material than could actually fit into their car form.

FARRAR: It's a cheat. There is scaling up and down and sizes of parts may increase or decrease in going from the car to the transformed robot. The upshot was that we added a tremendous amount of parts and pieces beyond our first designs. Optimus got a huge layering of parts. Again, you're making a movie, so you're always judging what you're creating by what the camera sees, so you're constantly saying, 'Oh, we need a hubcab here, a clutch-plate there.' We had to add a lot of movement that we didn't anticipate in the beginning. "

ARRRRRRRRG

I knew it!

Bay realism my ass!

This is more disappointing than G1 designs.

I can't say that I'm surprised

Auto Bot wrote:

Starscream wrote:From the new ILM article:

"QUESTION: What is the ratio or car-to-robot? It would appear that the robots contain much more material than could actually fit into their car form.

FARRAR: It's a cheat. There is scaling up and down and sizes of parts may increase or decrease in going from the car to the transformed robot. The upshot was that we added a tremendous amount of parts and pieces beyond our first designs. Optimus got a huge layering of parts. Again, you're making a movie, so you're always judging what you're creating by what the camera sees, so you're constantly saying, 'Oh, we need a hubcab here, a clutch-plate there.' We had to add a lot of movement that we didn't anticipate in the beginning. "

ARRRRRRRRG

I knew it!

Bay realism my ass!

This is more disappointing than G1 designs.

WhatI actually got out of that is that while Bay & the concept designers were going for "no cheating" once ILM got ahold of it they cheated in places where Bay himself couldn't even tell it was cheating because it was so subtly thrown into the transformation. I mean, if you think about it, who's really going to notice a clutch plate increasing in size by %125 when 10,000 other parts are whirring about it?

ITS A FREAKIN MOVIE, ITS FICTION! GET OVER IT!

Sonray wrote:ITS A FREAKIN MOVIE, ITS FICTION! GET OVER IT!

Heh.....I'd like to see what would happen if you stood up at a Star Trek or Star Wars convention & said that.....


Nobody's questioning the fiction. They're questioning the blantant inconsistancies made at the film production level by people that....well, let's face it, Bay has all but admitted he hates Transformers as a whole except for his movie......who specifically stated that a lot of the changes made were supposedly fix inconsistancies in previous series...& G1 in particular.

one example in particular I could mention: Prime was changed from a flat-nosed truck to what he is now simply because Bay thought he would have more "truck" to work with when coming up with the pieces to make him a robot without "cheating" by just making pieces bigger than they should be in real life. & Now we find out that part of his height was acheived by doing just that. Yes there would still be a difference, & the biger truck wouldn't have to be scaled up so much, but the point is it was still scaled up....Bay's sole reasoning for Prime not being his classic flat-nosed truck.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Sonray wrote:ITS A FREAKIN MOVIE, ITS FICTION! GET OVER IT!

Heh.....I'd like to see what would happen if you stood up at a Star Trek or Star Wars convention & said that.....

A bunch of whiny fanboys and girls with nothing better to use their energy and time on would start crying and complaining over something that has absolutely no importance what so ever.

Hmm....bit like here then?

I mean come on guys! I dont think you quite realize how silly and pointless these discussions are.

I mean let me put it into perspective for you:

Giant alien robots that can feel pain and talk and can transform into anything they like isnt the least bit implausible BUT a giant cube with god like powers that creates said living robots being able to shrink down to the size of an xbox is totally unbelievable?

Seriously....guys....see a doctor, get some meds and get a reality check, this isnt healthy. lol

How very dismissive of you, Sonray. What I have read here is not obsessive but a healthy use of people's minds to consider the possibilities of something they all have in common while in the process of conversation. As the old saying goes, there are no stupid questions. Anything which gets the mind working and considering is better than sitting back, letting your thoughts stagnate and only taking what one sees at face value.

As to your comment on the realism of the source material, what is, after all, the subject matter of this whole website? Transformers. It is the commonality here for people from around the world and from all walks of life. So singling out people's conversation on a subject matter which is the focus of the website, and which you with your post count have obviously contributed to, as being unhealthy is simply foolishness.

My quick thoughts on the subject, Bay has always been a hypocrit who favors flash over reality, as can be seen in any of his prior movies. Space is enormous, from any launching point, an arc second of a degree in your angle can translate into thousands of lightyears of physical space in which the object can be located, and impacting objects, gravitational eddies, and energy waves can all alter the trajectory of an object moving unpowered through a vacuum. The Allcube, if it retains the same mass but changes size then the density change from it's small size to large size would turn it to a gaseous state unless it is a thin film shell in large form and a solid object in small form. My contrast the additional mass could be converted into stored energy within the cube, which would not weigh anything, though this has tons of it's own questions.

Oh, and not all of us who go to sci-fi cons are whiny geeks. I'm a physicist and a teacher, plus a security guard and a bouncer in my free time.

rictheron wrote: Space is enormous, from any launching point, an arc second of a degree in your angle can translate into thousands of lightyears of physical space in which the object can be located, and impacting objects, gravitational eddies, and energy waves can all alter the trajectory of an object moving unpowered through a vacuum. The Allcube, if it retains the same mass but changes size then the density change from it's small size to large size would turn it to a gaseous state unless it is a thin film shell in large form and a solid object in small form. My contrast the additional mass could be converted into stored energy within the cube, which would not weigh anything, though this has tons of it's own questions.

This is exactly what im talking about right here. Too much picking and prodding into something that doesnt make any sense to begin with, but alas people need to try and make something make sense to make themselves feel better by trying to sound smarter than the other guy. Think of it as a strange form of e-penis comparing.

It can be fun sometimes, especially with stuff that actually exists and matters but to put this much thought into something out of a summer blockbuster movie about big robots that transform into cars that are based off a kids toy from the 80's is really stupid in my eyes.

If only people put this much effort into their own real lives, maybe the world as a whole would be a better place if people didn't waste all their time and energy and their ability for greatness on dumb, stupid, totally meaningless crap.

Thats my point here, as i know how valuable human energy and personal drive is, and to waste it on stuff like this is appalling to behold.

Why not go to college then? Why not use your knowledge of space and physics to better human life? Why not try and go to NASA and help develop technology that can allow humans to travel off-earth with ease and colonize other space bodies like the moon to help the problem of over-population on earth?

Why not go into chemistry and help find a cure for cancer? Or even just the common cold would be a huge breakthrough?

Nope, we all have to sit in our little houses at our computers trying to over-complicate the physics contained within an action film about a kids toy instead.


So yeah, forgive me if i am just a tincey wincey bit dismissive of this "conversation".

Being dismissive doesn't help anything either, though. At the end of the day, we are all still here. It is a movie, and considering it can be fun. To the greatest of minds, relaxation can come in the simpliest of pleasures. And of course, no matter how large we grow, we can never forget where we got out start. My point is, almost no one here knows what anyone else does, no one here is being obsessive on the point, it is some light hearted conversation about something we all like, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all still have lives beyond this.

Sonray wrote:

rictheron wrote: Space is enormous, from any launching point, an arc second of a degree in your angle can translate into thousands of lightyears of physical space in which the object can be located, and impacting objects, gravitational eddies, and energy waves can all alter the trajectory of an object moving unpowered through a vacuum. The Allcube, if it retains the same mass but changes size then the density change from it's small size to large size would turn it to a gaseous state unless it is a thin film shell in large form and a solid object in small form. My contrast the additional mass could be converted into stored energy within the cube, which would not weigh anything, though this has tons of it's own questions.

This is exactly what im talking about right here. Too much picking and prodding into something that doesnt make any sense to begin with, but alas people need to try and make something make sense to make themselves feel better by trying to sound smarter than the other guy. Think of it as a strange form of e-penis comparing.

It can be fun sometimes, especially with stuff that actually exists and matters but to put this much thought into something out of a summer blockbuster movie about big robots that transform into cars that are based off a kids toy from the 80's is really stupid in my eyes.

If only people put this much effort into their own real lives, maybe the world as a whole would be a better place if people didn't waste all their time and energy and their ability for greatness on dumb, stupid, totally meaningless crap.

Thats my point here, as i know how valuable human energy and personal drive is, and to waste it on stuff like this is appalling to behold.

Why not go to college then? Why not use your knowledge of space and physics to better human life? Why not try and go to NASA and help develop technology that can allow humans to travel off-earth with ease and colonize other space bodies like the moon to help the problem of over-population on earth?

Why not go into chemistry and help find a cure for cancer? Or even just the common cold would be a huge breakthrough?

Nope, we all have to sit in our little houses at our computers trying to over-complicate the physics contained within an action film about a kids toy instead.


So yeah, forgive me if i am just a tincey wincey bit dismissive of this "conversation".

Sonray I'm with you 100% of the way.

rictheron wrote:Being dismissive doesn't help anything either, though. At the end of the day, we are all still here. It is a movie, and considering it can be fun. To the greatest of minds, relaxation can come in the simpliest of pleasures. And of course, no matter how large we grow, we can never forget where we got out start. My point is, almost no one here knows what anyone else does, no one here is being obsessive on the point, it is some light hearted conversation about something we all like, and there is nothing wrong with that. We all still have lives beyond this.

yeah... some of said lives involve lots of WoW...

Let's all be a teensy wheensy bit dismissive of Sonray. He said his piece and now the conversation moves forward.


We are all angry about the news of CG cheating, because even though it was subtle, it was still obivious in places and we wanted to have a movie that we thought would be realistic.

And I for one am angry that the director doesn't even like the damn subject, like he's "correcting" it to the way it ought to be and all the fans are the bad guys for liking the old ways.

Maybe that's what it needed for its success though. Everyone, literally everyone, I talk to about it loved it. Except for older generations. A true TF fan would have make it Lord of the Rings meets Mecha anime and it would have bombed. But now I'm not a fan of the movie anymore, despite loving it initially.

Dark Zarak wrote:Let's all be a teensy wheensy bit dismissive of Sonray. He said his piece and now the conversation moves forward.


We are all angry about the news of CG cheating, because even though it was subtle, it was still obivious in places and we wanted to have a movie that we thought would be realistic.

And I for one am angry that the director doesn't even like the damn subject, like he's "correcting" it to the way it ought to be and all the fans are the bad guys for liking the old ways.

Maybe that's what it needed for its success though. Everyone, literally everyone, I talk to about it loved it. Except for older generations. A true TF fan would have make it Lord of the Rings meets Mecha anime and it would have bombed. But now I'm not a fan of the movie anymore, despite loving it initially.

On things such as transformers and star trek and star wars sometimes you need someone who isnt in love with the concept and could "hate" it. They have a fresh take on the subject and they dont have to worry about hurting their own emotional attachment. A true third party point of view.

Robinson wrote:On things such as transformers and star trek and star wars sometimes you need someone who isnt in love with the concept and could "hate" it. They have a fresh take on the subject and they dont have to worry about hurting their own emotional attachment. A true third party point of view.

QFT!

Oh and Dark Zarak, i'll be dismissive of all your comments too then alright? Take your ass hat off why dontcha? Freaking nerve...

Sonray wrote:

Robinson wrote:On things such as transformers and star trek and star wars sometimes you need someone who isnt in love with the concept and could "hate" it. They have a fresh take on the subject and they dont have to worry about hurting their own emotional attachment. A true third party point of view.

QFT!

Oh and Dark Zarak, i'll be dismissive of all your comments too then alright? Take your ass hat off why dontcha? Freaking nerve...

One thing though Sonray, at times you come off very defensive. That may be why people are so quick to dismiss your opinion.

Sorry, but I reacted the way I did because of your little IT'S A MOVIE PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP post.

Dark Zarak wrote:Sorry, but I reacted the way I did because of your little IT'S A MOVIE PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP post.

Was he untrue in what he said? Are people picking apart "Gameplan" because its not a real nfl team being represented as much as the community has picked apart transformers. Sometimes we need to see things for what they really are.

Robinson wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Sorry, but I reacted the way I did because of your little IT'S A MOVIE PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP post.

Was he untrue in what he said? Are people picking apart "Gameplan" because its not a real nfl team being represented as much as the community has picked apart transformers. Sometimes we need to see things for what they really are.

He's entitled to his opinion. It's the way he jumped in here mad about it.

Dark Zarak wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Sorry, but I reacted the way I did because of your little IT'S A MOVIE PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP post.

Was he untrue in what he said? Are people picking apart "Gameplan" because its not a real nfl team being represented as much as the community has picked apart transformers. Sometimes we need to see things for what they really are.

He's entitled to his opinion. It's the way he jumped in here mad about it.

I wasnt "mad" until you came along.

I came in, metaphorically speaking, as if you was a buncha people sitting around a large table with professors and physisists (sp?) and charts and advanced computers trying to work this stuff out, and amongst that madness i just came in shouting "ITS JUST A FREAKING MOVIE GET OVER IT!".

Tis the truth though isnt it? Stop wasting your time picking apart every little thing you see in all works of fiction and just embrace it for what it truly is: Entertainment.

But instead you just get on the pissy side and "dismiss" peoples opinions.

And people wonder why i get defensive! Can you blame me when **** like this happens?

Sonray wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Sorry, but I reacted the way I did because of your little IT'S A MOVIE PEOPLE LIGHTEN UP post.

Was he untrue in what he said? Are people picking apart "Gameplan" because its not a real nfl team being represented as much as the community has picked apart transformers. Sometimes we need to see things for what they really are.

He's entitled to his opinion. It's the way he jumped in here mad about it.

I wasnt "mad" until you came along.

I came in, metaphorically speaking, as if you was a buncha people sitting around a large table with professors and physisists (sp?) and charts and advanced computers trying to work this stuff out, and amongst that madness i just came in shouting "ITS JUST A FREAKING MOVIE GET OVER IT!".

Tis the truth though isnt it? Stop wasting your time picking apart every little thing you see in all works of fiction and just embrace it for what it truly is: Entertainment.

But instead you just get on the pissy side and "dismiss" peoples opinions.

And people wonder why i get defensive! Can you blame me when **** like this happens?

Sonray, when you feel like you have to post a defensive reply on something that may or may not need it, sometimes it helps to take your owm advice. Its a freakin movie, does getting all worked up about it really change that fact?

Sonray wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Sonray wrote:ITS A FREAKIN MOVIE, ITS FICTION! GET OVER IT!

Heh.....I'd like to see what would happen if you stood up at a Star Trek or Star Wars convention & said that.....

A bunch of whiny fanboys and girls with nothing better to use their energy and time on would start crying and complaining over something that has absolutely no importance what so ever.

Hmm....bit like here then?

I mean come on guys! I dont think you quite realize how silly and pointless these discussions are.

I mean let me put it into perspective for you:

Giant alien robots that can feel pain and talk and can transform into anything they like isnt the least bit implausible BUT a giant cube with god like powers that creates said living robots being able to shrink down to the size of an xbox is totally unbelievable?

Seriously....guys....see a doctor, get some meds and get a reality check, this isnt healthy. lol

YOu know, it's great how you picked this part out of my post yet virtually ignored the more important part:

Nobody's questioning the fiction. They're questioning the blantant inconsistancies made at the film production level

From what I've seen in this thread, most of everybody here are not trying to figure out how magic cubes shrink.....they're questioning the hollywood magic used to make said cube shrink. Personally I find the behind the scenes stuff fascinating.

But to be perfectly honest, if you're so sick of "fanboy whining", as you mistakenly put it, this website has a great option...it's called, "if you don't like a thread, don't post in it." Make your own about something else, go to a different forum....but coming into a discussion just to tell people to shut up........you're just asking to get responded to.....negatively.......

Whatever. You still need to get a reality check. Nothing will change the fact that bickering over something like this is an utter waste of time and energy.(hence why im not gonna bother defending myself against the predictable flames i have received for simply saying my part on the matter. )

Do something more productive with it instead of picking apart movies based on kids toys.

Its people like you who ruin the fun for everyone else by trying to justify every little thing, and thus end up ruining the source material.

And the whole speech about seeing a thread you dont like and not posting in it is a load of crap too. Id like to see you do the same when you see a bunch of people blatantly and blindly trying to make sense of something that was never intended to make sense in the first place, and thus they are just wasting their time and trying to make the source material out to be something that it isnt. Just enjoy the freaking stuff for what it is for once!

Like i said get a reality check.

It is just a movie