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If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.
Booda wrote:They said the same thing about Jazz. "Which Autobot did they kill? The black one!"
*scratches head* I thought Ironhide was the black one.
This is a question of culture, not race or skin color.If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.
So we'll just ignore Sergeant Eps I guess.
Mykltron wrote:Kuribohfett wrote:I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I don't think it's racist at all. The so called "stereotype" is so over blown it's not realistic
And what about the anti-semetic cartoons published by the nazis in the second world war? By your standards that was also not racist.
TCJJ wrote:Oh for goodness sakes. They're robots, and they're awesome. I am so damn sick of these critics. There was one on New Zealand TV the other day saying ROTF had "major plot holes" (which ok, it had one or two plot holes, but not lots of major plot holes as the retard pointed out). Although it was funny for her to point out that Transformers 3 was already underway with creation, which we all know is 110% false. But these "critics" are nothing more than a bunch of idiots that sit around and have a go at movies because they've seen every other movie ever made, and so each new movie never excites them.
Dr. Heavy B wrote:I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, I've met more white guys who talk like that
Caelus wrote:Dr. Heavy B wrote:I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, I've met more white guys who talk like that
Given their asymmetrical deformed faces, their incompetence, and their exaggerated dialogue... I thought they were supposed to be inbred southeastern trailer-park white-trash posers.
When I first saw them carrying on I thought "black", and then realized that the fact I jumped to that was actually what was really racist, especially when they were so much more like 50% of the white guys I knew back home. Of course, I found those guys to be offensive in and of themselves...
Ballistic90 wrote:The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans.
Ballistic90 wrote:And Kuribohfett, you don't see it because you don't have to. It doesn't affect you personally, so you let it pass. I'm sorry, but when I look at stills of the twins faces, you can easily see it.
karellan wrote:Ballistic90 wrote:The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans.
http://www.amazon.com/Ren-Stimpy-Show-Seasons-Half-ish/dp/B0009CTV4U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1246158314&sr=1-3
While that may have been true a hundred years ago, you need to look at it in context today. Not every instance of "big ears, big teeth and stupid," is a black stereotype. Even putting urban slang in the mix doesn't necessarily imply blackness, since every video game, movie, TV show, and song today that's trying to be cool and hip uses that language.
In cartoons, like the Ren and Stimpy I linked above, when the artist wants to depict "stupid," the first thing they do is add big ears and big teeth. Skids and Mudflap are basically cartoons, so their look isn't surprising at all.
Kuribohfett wrote:Ballistic90 wrote:
"First off, you don't know me from the next person on the internet, so you can't say that it doesn't affect me personally.
Second, racism affects everyone personally, as a human. So I don't just let racism "pass." To me, it's fairly offensive that you would suggest that I would do that. Just because I don't see it here doesn't mean I ignore it elsewhere.
I could look at a tree and see a danish if I tried hard enough. I'm not saying your wrong, I'm just saying that the fact that this issue is not clear cut proves this isn't a simple case of "Song of the South" racism. There's a good case that it's not there at all."
First, I can tell that you are a white man by what you just said. To you, it's theoretical. To others, it's real life. It doesn't affect everyone the same way. You want to see how it affects people? Here. Let me help you REALLY understand.
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/caricature/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/men.htm
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/more/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/newforms/
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/cartoons/
You have got to be kidding me. Talk about hubris. I never said it was theoretical at all. Never even implied it. You made a judgement based on your interpretation of what you think I said, which is pretty damn bad on its own. And I got news for you, college professor, I don't think any of those look like the twins at all. So your attempts to "educate" me and help me "understand" have failed. Although I'm sure you just think I'm not looking at it properly, the way you do. You think I don't know how hurtful it is to people? You think I'm that insensitive? Shows what you know. Stop making judgements based on me for defending what is, in my mind, not racist. Or am I just one of the affected masses to you?
Kuribohfett wrote:Actually, I did. Nice to know you made another judgement because you think I'm stupid. And once again, how do you know what I know about racism and what I don't? Answer is, you don't. Just because I read your link doesn't mean I have to agree with you, in fact it furthers my opinion that the Twins are just stupid designs and not racist.
You're too pompous and high on your own degree to listen to other people's opinions, so maybe you shouldn't be on a public forum. No one here is defending racism.
Burn wrote:Am I the only one (because I mentioned it before and no one caught onto it) that Jetfire was also "stereotyped" as an old fuddy duddy with a British accent?
I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?
Burn wrote:I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?
TurbofireJames wrote:I finally saw the movie today. I enjoyed it. I am an African-American male who studied media driven oppression as the focus of my communication major at Denison University (granville, ohio).
The argument that the characters in question are racist is false. They are problematic but not racist. There are negative portrayals of all races in these films especially white people. The issue with the negative black stereotype in the movie (we can call it the poor socioeconomic stereotype- not able to read or speak well) is that there are very few or zero positive images to counter the negative ones. When you see a white person portrayed poorly you will see a white hero (or genius, or middle class citizen), but minorities are type cast into stereotypical roles all the time in media and they are not counter balanced with positive images.
All that said, I found skids and mudflap to be funny and well timed in their comedic actions. They were deliberate characters, Bay made them. It was not malicious in intent, but it is problematic none the less. The issue is perpetuating stereotypes that lay the underlying seeds of oppression. Also, never say its just a movie. I work in advertising now, and these images and messages are deliberate and powerful. The Chevy Camaro is selling like crazy thanks to this movie, clearly its images affect people. Portrayals of characters on the screen do impact people. All that said, really enjoyed the movie. I found the violence more problematic to the kids seeing the film, much more so than the characterizations of the robots.
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