The Energon Pub

NightFall wrote:I just know it won't work, and I know he'll ruin some other design of fave bots. All I hope for is not so many pot holes, better actors, more bot action, less human interaction, a less alien ugly look to Starscream, Megatron to be less of a metal crappy toothy worm design, ...well better looking bots. Yup, I don't see anything changing soon, so I know it will be another Bay movie. Leak or not, I was hoping he would care more about the Transformers, but seems to be that he cares more about "his vision" of cool Transformers. Whatever, it going to be a fun ride...I guess.

Well put. This essay forms the very core of many fans's feeling out there.

May i use this as a sig for a while?

Burn wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:If Bay decided to end his ego trip. Come down from his own clouds, and listen to people. He may make some improvements to the sequel worth watching.

Explain to me why he should listen to people who haven't studied to become directors?

What? Because they're fans of the source material? That does NOT make them experts in making movies.

Reality check, the movie wasn't perfect. NO movie is perfect. EVERY director makes mistakes.

But not as gargantuan as Bay's mistakes.

Auto Bot wrote:But not as gargantuan as Bay's mistakes.

Oh get over it already. Bay hating is delving into the realm of pathetic, you want to go on that ride?

I don't hate Bay at all. Some of his movies are my favorites.

He's just too arrogant when it comes to Transformers. Somethings not right, putting Bay and TF together.

Bay made no mistakes my friend, the purpose of the movie was to
make money and he did it! Huge Sucess!
If Bay actualy listened to fans the movie would probably have grey giant humans in 3D dressed as cars and Barricade saying "YOU'RE RED!" to Frenzy, I wonder how much money that would make compared to the Bayformers!

BigDude wrote:Bay made no mistakes my friend, the purpose of the movie was to
make money and he did it! Huge Sucess!
If Bay actualy listened to fans the movie would probably have grey giant humans in 3D dressed as cars and Barricade saying "YOU'RE RED!" to Frenzy, I wonder how much money that would make compared to the Bayformers!

"Barricade saying "YOU'RE RED!" to Frenzy", this is hilarious!

It may have a chance to make it big as a comedy instead.

Actually, some of the reviews of the first film that I read said to "treat it as a comedy and you'll love it".

Actually, some of the reviews of the first film that I read said to "treat it as a comedy and you'll love it".

Leonardo wrote:Actually, some of the reviews of the first film that I read said to "treat it as a comedy and you'll love it".

That's a good way to look at it. Less frustrations.

Auto-Bot wrote:He's just too arrogant when it comes to Transformers. Somethings not right, putting Bay and TF together.

Its kind of hard to explain. But I think its because Bay can create bigger and badder action scenes with the Transformers. That and the fact that Transformers are...unique?

BigDude wrote:Bay made no mistakes my friend, the purpose of the movie was to
make money and he did it! Huge Sucess!

Big numbers in money do not mean the movie is a success. In the box office recipts yes but as I learned as a film student this isn't what makes a movie a success.
What does is the longeivity of the film. Such as Casblanca or Office Space. Good story structure in my honest opinon as I watch it more than a few times I give it about a c- for diologe that could have been better, the jokes fell flat and the over use of the catchphrase "More than meets the eye." also for Jazz's "What's up little bitches?" line. Also needless charector death of Jazz

If Bay actualy listened to fans the movie would probably have grey giant humans in 3D dressed as cars and Barricade saying "YOU'RE RED!" to Frenzy, I wonder how much money that would make compared to the Bayformers!

If he lisened to me I would have said simplify the design of the transformers. Not so much detail. Keep the humans to no more than you need to. First watch the cartoons read the comics and I would have hired a consulting firm to go out and see what fans and average Joe wants to see. Then I would tell him avoid the charector deaths watch the message boards and attend conventions and do reserch into robotics, outer space and Auto mechanics as well as millatary mechanics. I would understand this franchise by reserching the history of the toys creation and playing around with the toys. Read about the contraversy that happened in 1987. Why was it contraversial Study the storylines from the comics to cartoons. Ask what charectors don't work and what does and what hasn't been explored? Spend sometime in Portland Oregon at Mount St. Helen. Walk around the mountians and the woods and try to imangine what life would be like for robotic organisms to wake up in a world so differnt than the one they knew. Take pictures of locations at the autobots eye level and make notes on them,
Get a feel for the locals in portland get a car simlmuler to a autobots and drive around the access roads and ask around about the woods what animals can be seen and add that to your notes also look for little things that makes some one from portland such as speech patterns and diologe.
Give these things to your writers before they write. With the writers give them space check in on thier work take them to lunch as you do it. Be honest and open.
Get advice from other directors and producers. talk to peter cullen and frank walker, meet with the old writers directors and producers. Both japanese and American. Look into the history of a millatary dictatorships.
Talk to people about transformers. what do they remember about them?

Does that sound like bad advice?

Film Student and Slaggin' proud of it!
Sky

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:If he lisened to me I would have said simplify the design of the transformers. Not so much detail. Keep the humans to no more than you need to. First watch the cartoons read the comics and I would have hired a consulting firm to go out and see what fans and average Joe wants to see. Then I would tell him avoid the charector deaths watch the message boards and attend conventions and do reserch into robotics, outer space and Auto mechanics as well as millatary mechanics. I would understand this franchise by reserching the history of the toys creation and playing around with the toys. Read about the contraversy that happened in 1987. Why was it contraversial Study the storylines from the comics to cartoons. Ask what charectors don't work and what does and what hasn't been explored? Spend sometime in Portland Oregon at Mount St. Helen. Walk around the mountians and the woods and try to imangine what life would be like for robotic organisms to wake up in a world so differnt than the one they knew. Take pictures of locations at the autobots eye level and make notes on them,
Get a feel for the locals in portland get a car simlmuler to a autobots and drive around the access roads and ask around about the woods what animals can be seen and add that to your notes also look for little things that makes some one from portland such as speech patterns and diologe.
Give these things to your writers before they write. With the writers give them space check in on thier work take them to lunch as you do it. Be honest and open.
Get advice from other directors and producers. talk to peter cullen and frank walker, meet with the old writers directors and producers. Both japanese and American. Look into the history of a millatary dictatorships.
Talk to people about transformers. what do they remember about them?

Does that sound like bad advice?

Film Student and Slaggin' proud of it!
Sky

Not bad advice, but completely unnecessary. The movie has nothing to do with Mount st. Helens or oregon for that matter. Just because the cartoon did does not mean the movie has to. The whole point of the movie is to build something that will be diferent than what was done before. Not to keep rehashing the same tired storylines that have been done to death for nearly 25 years.

You may be a film student but with this particular film you may be a little out of touch when it comes to whats needed of it or what was done to make it. No one but the writers know what exptent of research they did. They also claim to be fans in their own right so they have an inclination of what the franchise is about, what can work, what absolutely won't work and what they can get away with.

If you feel you can make the "perfect" Transformers movie feel free to do so, let the "fans" view it and see what opinions go from there whether or not your movie is better than the one we have.

Robinson wrote:

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:If he lisened to me I would have said simplify the design of the transformers. Not so much detail. Keep the humans to no more than you need to. First watch the cartoons read the comics and I would have hired a consulting firm to go out and see what fans and average Joe wants to see. Then I would tell him avoid the charector deaths watch the message boards and attend conventions and do reserch into robotics, outer space and Auto mechanics as well as millatary mechanics. I would understand this franchise by reserching the history of the toys creation and playing around with the toys. Read about the contraversy that happened in 1987. Why was it contraversial Study the storylines from the comics to cartoons. Ask what charectors don't work and what does and what hasn't been explored? Spend sometime in Portland Oregon at Mount St. Helen. Walk around the mountians and the woods and try to imangine what life would be like for robotic organisms to wake up in a world so differnt than the one they knew. Take pictures of locations at the autobots eye level and make notes on them,
Get a feel for the locals in portland get a car simlmuler to a autobots and drive around the access roads and ask around about the woods what animals can be seen and add that to your notes also look for little things that makes some one from portland such as speech patterns and diologe.
Give these things to your writers before they write. With the writers give them space check in on thier work take them to lunch as you do it. Be honest and open.
Get advice from other directors and producers. talk to peter cullen and frank walker, meet with the old writers directors and producers. Both japanese and American. Look into the history of a millatary dictatorships.
Talk to people about transformers. what do they remember about them?

Does that sound like bad advice?

Film Student and Slaggin' proud of it!
Sky

Not bad advice, but completely unnecessary. The movie has nothing to do with Mount st. Helens or oregon for that matter. Just because the cartoon did does not mean the movie has to. The whole point of the movie is to build something that will be diferent than what was done before. Not to keep rehashing the same tired storylines that have been done to death for nearly 25 years.

You may be a film student but with this particular film you may be a little out of touch when it comes to whats needed of it or what was done to make it. No one but the writers know what exptent of research they did. They also claim to be fans in their own right so they have an inclination of what the franchise is about, what can work, what absolutely won't work and what they can get away with.

If you feel you can make the "perfect" Transformers movie feel free to do so, let the "fans" view it and see what opinions go from there whether or not your movie is better than the one we have.

Question: What storylines in Transformers have actually been done to death? People keep saying this, but I have yet to see any storyline that has indeed been "done to death" that the new movie didn't cover, such as Autobots & Decepticons appearing on Earth...Megs vs. Prime deathmatch, Starscream gunning for leader of decepticons, Megs telling him how incompetent he is...etc.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:If he lisened to me I would have said simplify the design of the transformers. Not so much detail. Keep the humans to no more than you need to. First watch the cartoons read the comics and I would have hired a consulting firm to go out and see what fans and average Joe wants to see. Then I would tell him avoid the charector deaths watch the message boards and attend conventions and do reserch into robotics, outer space and Auto mechanics as well as millatary mechanics. I would understand this franchise by reserching the history of the toys creation and playing around with the toys. Read about the contraversy that happened in 1987. Why was it contraversial Study the storylines from the comics to cartoons. Ask what charectors don't work and what does and what hasn't been explored? Spend sometime in Portland Oregon at Mount St. Helen. Walk around the mountians and the woods and try to imangine what life would be like for robotic organisms to wake up in a world so differnt than the one they knew. Take pictures of locations at the autobots eye level and make notes on them,
Get a feel for the locals in portland get a car simlmuler to a autobots and drive around the access roads and ask around about the woods what animals can be seen and add that to your notes also look for little things that makes some one from portland such as speech patterns and diologe.
Give these things to your writers before they write. With the writers give them space check in on thier work take them to lunch as you do it. Be honest and open.
Get advice from other directors and producers. talk to peter cullen and frank walker, meet with the old writers directors and producers. Both japanese and American. Look into the history of a millatary dictatorships.
Talk to people about transformers. what do they remember about them?

Does that sound like bad advice?

Film Student and Slaggin' proud of it!
Sky

Not bad advice, but completely unnecessary. The movie has nothing to do with Mount st. Helens or oregon for that matter. Just because the cartoon did does not mean the movie has to. The whole point of the movie is to build something that will be diferent than what was done before. Not to keep rehashing the same tired storylines that have been done to death for nearly 25 years.

You may be a film student but with this particular film you may be a little out of touch when it comes to whats needed of it or what was done to make it. No one but the writers know what exptent of research they did. They also claim to be fans in their own right so they have an inclination of what the franchise is about, what can work, what absolutely won't work and what they can get away with.

If you feel you can make the "perfect" Transformers movie feel free to do so, let the "fans" view it and see what opinions go from there whether or not your movie is better than the one we have.

Question: What storylines in Transformers have actually been done to death? People keep saying this, but I have yet to see any storyline that has indeed been "done to death" that the new movie didn't cover, such as Autobots & Decepticons appearing on Earth...Megs vs. Prime deathmatch, Starscream gunning for leader of decepticons, Megs telling him how incompetent he is...etc.

The storylines that follow the introduction. Of course the movie will begin with the same template but now is its chance to move into something else completely.

Some examples of things done to death.( Now I dont know every story in transformers lore but these are the ones that jump out instantly)

Unicron
Meg's becoming Galvatron
Rodimus/ Ultra Magnus leadership


Now I know those are primarily things from the 86 movie, but thats what I am constantly reading in different threads that people want to see, the same thing done over again. They writers really have a chance to create something unique now and I hope they follow through with it

Robinson wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Sky Glory of Iacon wrote:If he lisened to me I would have said simplify the design of the transformers. Not so much detail. Keep the humans to no more than you need to. First watch the cartoons read the comics and I would have hired a consulting firm to go out and see what fans and average Joe wants to see. Then I would tell him avoid the charector deaths watch the message boards and attend conventions and do reserch into robotics, outer space and Auto mechanics as well as millatary mechanics. I would understand this franchise by reserching the history of the toys creation and playing around with the toys. Read about the contraversy that happened in 1987. Why was it contraversial Study the storylines from the comics to cartoons. Ask what charectors don't work and what does and what hasn't been explored? Spend sometime in Portland Oregon at Mount St. Helen. Walk around the mountians and the woods and try to imangine what life would be like for robotic organisms to wake up in a world so differnt than the one they knew. Take pictures of locations at the autobots eye level and make notes on them,
Get a feel for the locals in portland get a car simlmuler to a autobots and drive around the access roads and ask around about the woods what animals can be seen and add that to your notes also look for little things that makes some one from portland such as speech patterns and diologe.
Give these things to your writers before they write. With the writers give them space check in on thier work take them to lunch as you do it. Be honest and open.
Get advice from other directors and producers. talk to peter cullen and frank walker, meet with the old writers directors and producers. Both japanese and American. Look into the history of a millatary dictatorships.
Talk to people about transformers. what do they remember about them?

Does that sound like bad advice?

Film Student and Slaggin' proud of it!
Sky

Not bad advice, but completely unnecessary. The movie has nothing to do with Mount st. Helens or oregon for that matter. Just because the cartoon did does not mean the movie has to. The whole point of the movie is to build something that will be diferent than what was done before. Not to keep rehashing the same tired storylines that have been done to death for nearly 25 years.

You may be a film student but with this particular film you may be a little out of touch when it comes to whats needed of it or what was done to make it. No one but the writers know what exptent of research they did. They also claim to be fans in their own right so they have an inclination of what the franchise is about, what can work, what absolutely won't work and what they can get away with.

If you feel you can make the "perfect" Transformers movie feel free to do so, let the "fans" view it and see what opinions go from there whether or not your movie is better than the one we have.

Question: What storylines in Transformers have actually been done to death? People keep saying this, but I have yet to see any storyline that has indeed been "done to death" that the new movie didn't cover, such as Autobots & Decepticons appearing on Earth...Megs vs. Prime deathmatch, Starscream gunning for leader of decepticons, Megs telling him how incompetent he is...etc.

The storylines that follow the introduction. Of course the movie will begin with the same template but now is its chance to move into something else completely.

Some examples of things done to death.( Now I dont know every story in transformers lore but these are the ones that jump out instantly)

Unicron
Meg's becoming Galvatron
Rodimus/ Ultra Magnus leadership


Now I know those are primarily things from the 86 movie, but thats what I am constantly reading in different threads that people want to see, the same thing done over again. They writers really have a chance to create something unique now and I hope they follow through with it

Unicron has been done twice in the past 25 years...once for G1, once for the Unicron trillogy.
The Megs/Galvy thing I'll give you.....though in all but one instance, it was a simple repainting....only G1 gave him an actual body upgrade.
Rodimus was only leader in G1, & only temporary then...though in energon he was the leader of a splinter group of autobots, but was not their supreme commander.
Ultra Magnus since G1 has never had a leader status, though he was Prime's brother in RID.

But all of this given, who outside the more hardcore fans even know of these storylines? Certainly casual moviegoers that were more fascinated with Mojo than catching the split second you can see Starscream shooting Megatron wouldn't even have a clue who Unicron, Galvatron, Magnus, or Rodimus even are....let alone wether they've been done to death or not. But don't get me wrong...I'm not saying redo G1 scripts word for word, or any other series for that matter...but honestly, if you want to see giant robots doing something completely new...go watch Gundam, or Evangelion, or some other non-transformer anime show with giant robots in it. There's no need to give the past 25 years the middle finger & do something completely unrelated in order to come up with something everybody will love to watch.

Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

Robinson wrote:Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

How about a mix of both?

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

How about a mix of both?

A mix will be the middle path to take. It gives hardcore fans soemthing to relate to, and yet inject some new elements into it.

Auto Bot wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

How about a mix of both?

A mix will be the middle path to take. It gives hardcore fans soemthing to relate to, and yet inject some new elements into it.

Not to mention, it's what most good movie translations do. I mean hell, look at some of the Marvel stuff...Venom in Spiderman 3 is a good example. They kept the Venom intro similar to other introduction stories, yet after he became Venom, instead of going solo for awhile fighting Spidey, he immedeately teamed up with Sandman.....& then they flat-out killed him...no "maybe he survived, maybe he didn't"...burned into nothingness. makes way for another round of new/old mix if they happen to make a 4th Spider-man movie.

& the homages there are were a lot more respectful of the older stuff than that scene in Transformers where the new bumblebee pulled up next to his older car type & then busted it up.

I didn't read all 10 pages...
But I'm wondering if Bay is gonna pull something like "half truths" in his "leaks".

As in, "3 of the Constructicons will be introduced. Soundwave makes a solo (no cassettes) appearance, and there will be a Decepticon triple-changer".

Then in the movie, we see all of the Constructicons and Devastator, Soundwave and 3 different cassette characters, and both Astrotrain and Blitzwing.

As someone said before, why would he lead info that is BETTER than what actually shows up in the movie?
I think if anything, he'll hold back and intentionally "disappoint".
It would make it easier for the movie to "deliver".

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

How about a mix of both?

A mix will be the middle path to take. It gives hardcore fans soemthing to relate to, and yet inject some new elements into it.

Not to mention, it's what most good movie translations do. I mean hell, look at some of the Marvel stuff...Venom in Spiderman 3 is a good example. They kept the Venom intro similar to other introduction stories, yet after he became Venom, instead of going solo for awhile fighting Spidey, he immedeately teamed up with Sandman.....& then they flat-out killed him...no "maybe he survived, maybe he didn't"...burned into nothingness. makes way for another round of new/old mix if they happen to make a 4th Spider-man movie.

& the homages there are were a lot more respectful of the older stuff than that scene in Transformers where the new bumblebee pulled up next to his older car type & then busted it up.

Maybe it was Bay's way of getting even with VW, for not allowing their lovable bug to be involved.

Auto Bot wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

Robinson wrote:Theres no reason to not move forward for the next 25 years either. What I'm saying is that the stories have been done before, so why not make new stories that the next generation of fans will be anxious to see and if they want to know whats been done before they can research it.

How about a mix of both?

A mix will be the middle path to take. It gives hardcore fans soemthing to relate to, and yet inject some new elements into it.

Not to mention, it's what most good movie translations do. I mean hell, look at some of the Marvel stuff...Venom in Spiderman 3 is a good example. They kept the Venom intro similar to other introduction stories, yet after he became Venom, instead of going solo for awhile fighting Spidey, he immedeately teamed up with Sandman.....& then they flat-out killed him...no "maybe he survived, maybe he didn't"...burned into nothingness. makes way for another round of new/old mix if they happen to make a 4th Spider-man movie.

& the homages there are were a lot more respectful of the older stuff than that scene in Transformers where the new bumblebee pulled up next to his older car type & then busted it up.

Maybe it was Bay's way of getting even with VW, for not allowing their lovable bug to be involved.

No, I just got the HD-DVD version of the movie & listened to the commentary. There was no mention of VW's stance...just that Bay hated the idea of Bumblebee as a Bug. That & not once did they ever seem to get why fans didn't want flames on the wrong Prime. Not saying it dosen't look decent on Optimus, but honestly, it's kinda like putting Venom's spider design on Spider-man's costume. Sure, it still fits Spider-man...but it's a design that should be reserved for Venom.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote: There was no mention of VW's stance...just that Bay hated the idea of Bumblebee as a Bug. That & not once did they ever seem to get why fans didn't want flames on the wrong Prime. Not saying it dosen't look decent on Optimus, but honestly, it's kinda like putting Venom's spider design on Spider-man's costume. Sure, it still fits Spider-man...but it's a design that should be reserved for Venom.

One Bay hated the Bug, versus 5 millions fans loving the Bug. And the choice is... kill the Bug. Pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head, with regards to the flames issue.

He's the director, he has a vision for how the movie is going to look.

Bumblebee is suppose to be this tough seasoned warrior.

What's going to look better? A VW bug or a Camaro?

Yeah, doesn't take a genius to see which is the better look.

Take off the nostalgia glasses people and see the new take on characters.

The Movie produced some good cars and good robots.

But a very crappy Megatron. And a ho-hum storyline.

The focus is the boy. Remember?