The Energon Pub

Neat! wow

After reading all this, I have something to say.

Give it up, you guys! There's no such thing as perfection. Nothing is good enough for you, is it? G1 was a 30 minute long glorified toy commercial riddled with enough animation errors to fill a whole website, half the characterizations seem to be fanon anyway, yet somehow nothing can measure up to it? It's a nitpicker's paradise and a half! And the '86 movie was little better. They killed off every character people loved, threw in a bunch of total strangers who didn't even pause to mourn the lost and expected us to instantly care about THEM instead, then threw them up against a random villain who came out of nowhere and took pulling an epic MacGuffin out of somebody's ass to kill. Now, I understand the nostalgia factor, but that can't be your only argument in favor of something! We've had a good dozen Transformers incarnations since then, yet each time you guys nitpick and nitpick each one until they unravel like spools of yarn, then crow about how awful they are and how much they suck. You don't bother to notice the good points. All that matters is the bad, and nothing else. To Hell with the fact that you had fun! That's the point of movies and TV shows. They're supposed to be fun ways to pass the time, not something to analyze to death. You're supposed to take them for what they are.

And as to the new movies, you're forgetting two things concerning human involvement and explosions. One: Given the fact that this is Earth and humans aren't likely to sit back and let a war rage for the fate of their planet without getting involved in it. If it was you, I doubt you'd say "Oh look, they're fighting over whether to spare me, my species and everything I hold dear or subject them all to a horrific death. I think I'll sit on the sidelines and watch to see who wins." Two: Things explode in war, especially when very powerful, highly advanced weapons are involved. Haven't any of you gone to at least ONE history class? Wars are full of things blowing up and getting blown up. Bombs, mortar shells, IEDs... And consider how advanced Cybertronian tech is. They've had EONS to make bigger weapons, stronger weapons, weapons that make bigger explosions, weapons that do more damage...

I'm sorry about snapping on you guys like that, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who overanalyze things that really don't need to be overanalyzed, rather than simply having fun with them.

Night Raid wrote:<snip>Post of pure awesome</snip>

*slow clap*

Autobot032 wrote:

Night Raid wrote:<snip>Post of pure awesome</snip>

*slow clap*

All I want is for people to stop and think before they diss.

Autobot032 wrote:

Night Raid wrote:<snip>Post of pure awesome</snip>

*slow clap*

OMFG, did you just bring LOGIC into a discussion? I think that's forbidden in some places......


BTW good post Night Raid.

Night Raid wrote:After reading all this, I have something to say.

Give it up, you guys! There's no such thing as perfection. Nothing is good enough for you, is it? G1 was a 30 minute long glorified toy commercial riddled with enough animation errors to fill a whole website, half the characterizations seem to be fanon anyway, yet somehow nothing can measure up to it? It's a nitpicker's paradise and a half! And the '86 movie was little better. They killed off every character people loved, threw in a bunch of total strangers who didn't even pause to mourn the lost and expected us to instantly care about THEM instead, then threw them up against a random villain who came out of nowhere and took pulling an epic MacGuffin out of somebody's ass to kill. Now, I understand the nostalgia factor, but that can't be your only argument in favor of something! We've had a good dozen Transformers incarnations since then, yet each time you guys nitpick and nitpick each one until they unravel like spools of yarn, then crow about how awful they are and how much they suck. You don't bother to notice the good points. All that matters is the bad, and nothing else. To Hell with the fact that you had fun! That's the point of movies and TV shows. They're supposed to be fun ways to pass the time, not something to analyze to death. You're supposed to take them for what they are.

I'm sorry about snapping on you guys like that, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who overanalyze things that really don't need to be overanalyzed, rather than simply having fun with them.

Ok, so I edited out the part of your very well made post that I'm not going to address, but yes, excellent post.
However, everyone who seems to be so anti-ROTF-disliking always seems to be missing one central element of the disenters' points: sometime, people just don't like something. I don't have to like ROTF or Animated, not for any reason on this planet. And it just so happens, that because I'm not forced to like them, I didn't care for either one of them. Did I have fun watching ROFT, was it enteraining to me? No, it was not. Am I bitter? No, but I didn't care for the movie. So what? Why, on a site dedicated to the exchange of ideas, do I have to have yours? Sure I like G1 better, and am aware of its flaws. But so what, am I not entitled to have that opinion, simply because something new has come along? G1 was a 30 minute commerical, how'sa bout all the toys that come out for the live action movies, some of which like Jolt for ROTF are figures of a 'charcater' who was on screen for mere seconds?

Hell, I don't care how much you liked the movie, and numerous times in numerous posts on all kinds of topics on this site for years I've said I was just stating my opinion, and if someone likes subject X then great for them, because life is about finding stuff that you like. I don't care what you enjoy, I'm just glad you enjoy it. That does not however preclude anyone elses' right to dislike something, no matter how much you like it.
Here you go, I love the films of Ed Wood. Ok? 'Worst Filmmaker of all time?" Want to talk continuity errors and little to no development, hamfisted scripts and all the other things? Ed was you man. I find that entertaining. Compared to Glen or Glenda, ROTF was not entertaining to me, in my opinion. Yes, before I get lectured about how there are movies that have come out since Ed Wood's time and ones with better effects and scripts and bigger budgets, I know all of that. But sometimes, there's just no accounting for taste, and that's what this boils down to. Don't like Ed Wood? Guess who doesn't care? Me. I like him and his work, so that's enough to keep me satisfied. Go ahead and complain about something I like, I could care less. I just am a firm believer in the idea that I don't have to pay lip service and laud something that I don't feel deserves lauding. Sorry that offends people.

Dagon wrote:

Night Raid wrote:After reading all this, I have something to say.

Give it up, you guys! There's no such thing as perfection. Nothing is good enough for you, is it? G1 was a 30 minute long glorified toy commercial riddled with enough animation errors to fill a whole website, half the characterizations seem to be fanon anyway, yet somehow nothing can measure up to it? It's a nitpicker's paradise and a half! And the '86 movie was little better. They killed off every character people loved, threw in a bunch of total strangers who didn't even pause to mourn the lost and expected us to instantly care about THEM instead, then threw them up against a random villain who came out of nowhere and took pulling an epic MacGuffin out of somebody's ass to kill. Now, I understand the nostalgia factor, but that can't be your only argument in favor of something! We've had a good dozen Transformers incarnations since then, yet each time you guys nitpick and nitpick each one until they unravel like spools of yarn, then crow about how awful they are and how much they suck. You don't bother to notice the good points. All that matters is the bad, and nothing else. To Hell with the fact that you had fun! That's the point of movies and TV shows. They're supposed to be fun ways to pass the time, not something to analyze to death. You're supposed to take them for what they are.

I'm sorry about snapping on you guys like that, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who overanalyze things that really don't need to be overanalyzed, rather than simply having fun with them.

Dagon wrote:Ok, so I edited out the part of your very well made post that I'm not going to address, but yes, excellent post.
However, everyone who seems to be so anti-ROTF-disliking always seems to be missing one central element of the disenters' points: sometime, people just don't like something. I don't have to like ROTF or Animated, not for any reason on this planet. And it just so happens, that because I'm not forced to like them, I didn't care for either one of them.

No one, not once, in this thread said anything about you having to like anything. In fact, my posts are one part of the many voices who said "If you didn't like it, don't watch it." And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You don't have to like it. Not one bit.

If you don't like it, so what? Don't like it! Do what makes YOU happy. The only thing we ask is that you don't cross the line and take away our like of it.

So many of the negative voices have basically called us tasteless and stupid for liking it, and can't understand how we'd find any enjoyment in the films. Well, the same can be asked of someone proclaiming G1 as the awesomest 3V@R.

People like what they like and they're entitled to that, but they should have the decency to show us enough respect to say "Okay, I don't agree, but hey, if it makes you happy, go for it! Enjoy!" I rarely see any anti-Bayverse voice say something like that.

A lot of people found Roger Ebert's comments to be rude and inflammatory. Well, a lot of our own fellow posters and fandomites do and say the exact same he has, and worse.

No one's forcing you to watch or like these shows and movies, all we're asking you to do is be patient and wait for the next thing to come along. You might like it, and it might be worth the wait. We pro-movie fans don't seem to have the same courtesy thrown our way.

Dagon wrote:Did I have fun watching ROFT, was it enteraining to me? No, it was not. Am I bitter? No, but I didn't care for the movie. So what? Why, on a site dedicated to the exchange of ideas, do I have to have yours? Sure I like G1 better, and am aware of its flaws. But so what, am I not entitled to have that opinion, simply because something new has come along? G1 was a 30 minute commerical, how'sa bout all the toys that come out for the live action movies, some of which like Jolt for ROTF are figures of a 'charcater' who was on screen for mere seconds?

You don't have to share the same view we have. You just have to respect that it's our opinion and that we're entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your's. See, it's not really an exchange of ideas much anymore. It's more of a "We're gonna ram it down their throats!" mentality. We're either with you or against you, and that's just silliness. This is part of the reason why I tell people not to take TransFormers so seriously. There are people picking apart every damned piece of the mythos, every piece of writing, design, etc. And all for what? Is it going to change your life? Absolutely not. (If you honestly do believe that it will, then you seriously need to find the line between fantasy and reality, come back across it, and don't let it blur again...)

And I commend you for being able to say what you said about G1. I feel the same way about the movie. Neither the cartoon, nor the movieverse are perfect. There are massive, visible flaws in each, but they're still enjoyable to the right audience. Just because they're right for one person, and not for another, doesn't mean we can't be a harmonious fandom. We are the ones stopping each other's happiness and joy. Everyone always has to be right and everyone else wrong, and that just doesn't work. No one, NO ONE, is right or wrong 100% of the time. And people seem to forget that an opinion is NOT a fact.

I think G1 sucks, I love the movieverse. Does that make what I FEEL, a fact? No. It's my OPINION. It's how I feel.

You feel the exact opposite. That's still your opinion and not a fact.

As for characters/figures like Jolt, you and I both know why that happened: You're right, it's a commercial, and he's there to make a buck. But even if they hadn't approached him from a commercial angle, the fans still would've cried out for a Jolt figure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. They'd have cried foul and Hasbro would seemingly be able to do no right by the people unless they caved and made the figure. So sometimes it's not purely to make a buck, but also to shut us up. (Not saying they listen to us. Listening to people's concerns and simply shutting them up don't go hand in hand all the time.)

Dagon wrote:Hell, I don't care how much you liked the movie, and numerous times in numerous posts on all kinds of topics on this site for years I've said I was just stating my opinion, and if someone likes subject X then great for them, because life is about finding stuff that you like. I don't care what you enjoy, I'm just glad you enjoy it. That does not however preclude anyone elses' right to dislike something, no matter how much you like it.

No one said you had to care how much we like the movie, but we also don't have to give a DAMN what you think of the movie and how much you love G1, either. If you're allowed to state your opinion, we are too. That's one of the prices you pay to use the boards. You open yourself up to response and criticism, and sometimes...you have to listen to what others say. If you can't handle that, then message boards aren't for you. Do you think I like all of what I read/see/hear? Of course not. But I don't expect the internet to be more than it is. See...I read that you say the words, but I'm not sure you actually mean it. The entire tone of this post of your's has a negative slant to it. And you're entitled to it, but don't expect to throw it in our faces without someone throwing it back.

Dagon wrote:Here you go, I love the films of Ed Wood. Ok? 'Worst Filmmaker of all time?" Want to talk continuity errors and little to no development, hamfisted scripts and all the other things? Ed was you man. I find that entertaining. Compared to Glen or Glenda, ROTF was not entertaining to me, in my opinion. Yes, before I get lectured about how there are movies that have come out since Ed Wood's time and ones with better effects and scripts and bigger budgets, I know all of that. But sometimes, there's just no accounting for taste, and that's what this boils down to. Don't like Ed Wood? Guess who doesn't care? Me. I like him and his work, so that's enough to keep me satisfied. Go ahead and complain about something I like, I could care less. I just am a firm believer in the idea that I don't have to pay lip service and laud something that I don't feel deserves lauding. Sorry that offends people.

No one's offended that you don't like what they do. It's your attitude and delivery that offend people. No one's telling you that you have to like this, or can't like that. People can only do that if you let them. If it really bothers you what people think and have to say, you have some options:

1.) Ignore those posters. (Most boards have an ignore feature.)
2.) Ignore those topics. (If you know it'll bother you...)
3.) Ignore the product. (Don't like it? Don't watch or buy!)

I know, I know, you're going to say "Why should I?" and I'll answer it with "Why shouldn't you?"

If their opinion sucks in your opinion, well then don't subject yourself to it. (You only have to listen when you choose to. Opt out.)

If the topic bothers you so much, don't read it. (Is it really that difficult to hit the "BACK" button, or...I dunno...not even load the page to begin with? Do you have to be a part of the conversation? Is it really necessary all the time? No. It isn't. BTW.)

If the product doesn't meet your standards, find something else. (And don't tell me "I shouldn't have to!" Plenty of fans have had to, you are NO different, nor are you special.)

You love G1, go collect G1 and wait for Movieverse to leave the shelves while Powercore and War For Cybertron come to the shelves. You might like them. If you don't, there's still plenty more G1 to find. There's also Beast Wars, Machine Wars, Beast Machines, RID, etc.

You don't HAVE to buy movieverse product, don't HAVE to like it, so don't even bother. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult thing to grasp. Does it suck that there's no current offering that pleases you? Sure, it sucks, but it's part of the price we pay to get what we want. Hasbro has to try new ideas to keep the line fresh, or it's going to die out like Power Rangers has. Some ideas are hits, others aren't. But at least Hasbro keeps trying. If you don't like it, just be a little bit patient and the next line might wow you.

If it doesn't wow you, that's your right, but past a certain point shouldn't you consider that maybe, just maybe, you're the one with the problem? When there's several options from past, present, and future to tide you over, and you can't seem to find much to like about it other than a handful of this or that...doesn't that tell you that you're the one with the problem? It should.

There's a difference between having an opinion and being completely closed off.

Hasbro's trying to meet us half way. Sometimes, they listen (rarely). They know we like combiners, we like Cybertron, so what are we getting? Cybertronian modes and a separate line full of combiners. Not to mention, Universe 3.0 (a different title when it comes out, but we all know what it is).

There's something to like for EVERYONE. Whether it's just a single figure, or an entire line, there has to be something for everyone. If you still can't find anything to like about what's on the table, then you're definitely the one with the problem. Perhaps it's time to find another fandom or hobby to join. We're not asking you to leave, but why subject yourself to something you obviously don't like, on a constant basis?

I don't like G1, I don't subject myself to it. Simple as that. *shrugs*

I don't get why this has to be so difficult for some people, I really don't.

Night Raid wrote:After reading all this, I have something to say.

Give it up, you guys! There's no such thing as perfection. Nothing is good enough for you, is it? G1 was a 30 minute long glorified toy commercial riddled with enough animation errors to fill a whole website, half the characterizations seem to be fanon anyway, yet somehow nothing can measure up to it? It's a nitpicker's paradise and a half! And the '86 movie was little better. They killed off every character people loved, threw in a bunch of total strangers who didn't even pause to mourn the lost and expected us to instantly care about THEM instead, then threw them up against a random villain who came out of nowhere and took pulling an epic MacGuffin out of somebody's ass to kill. Now, I understand the nostalgia factor, but that can't be your only argument in favor of something! We've had a good dozen Transformers incarnations since then, yet each time you guys nitpick and nitpick each one until they unravel like spools of yarn, then crow about how awful they are and how much they suck. You don't bother to notice the good points. All that matters is the bad, and nothing else. To Hell with the fact that you had fun! That's the point of movies and TV shows. They're supposed to be fun ways to pass the time, not something to analyze to death. You're supposed to take them for what they are.

And as to the new movies, you're forgetting two things concerning human involvement and explosions. One: Given the fact that this is Earth and humans aren't likely to sit back and let a war rage for the fate of their planet without getting involved in it. If it was you, I doubt you'd say "Oh look, they're fighting over whether to spare me, my species and everything I hold dear or subject them all to a horrific death. I think I'll sit on the sidelines and watch to see who wins." Two: Things explode in war, especially when very powerful, highly advanced weapons are involved. Haven't any of you gone to at least ONE history class? Wars are full of things blowing up and getting blown up. Bombs, mortar shells, IEDs... And consider how advanced Cybertronian tech is. They've had EONS to make bigger weapons, stronger weapons, weapons that make bigger explosions, weapons that do more damage...

I'm sorry about snapping on you guys like that, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who overanalyze things that really don't need to be overanalyzed, rather than simply having fun with them.

Autobot032][quote="Dagon wrote:Ok, so I edited out the part of your very well made post that I'm not going to address, but yes, excellent post.
However, everyone who seems to be so anti-ROTF-disliking always seems to be missing one central element of the disenters' points: sometime, people just don't like something. I don't have to like ROTF or Animated, not for any reason on this planet. And it just so happens, that because I'm not forced to like them, I didn't care for either one of them.

No one, not once, in this thread said anything about you having to like anything. In fact, my posts are one part of the many voices who said "If you didn't like it, don't watch it." And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.


You don't have to like it. Not one bit.

If you don't like it, so what? Don't like it! Do what makes YOU happy. The only thing we ask is that you don't cross the line and take away our like of it.

So many of the negative voices have basically called us tasteless and stupid for liking it, and can't understand how we'd find any enjoyment in the films. Well, the same can be asked of someone proclaiming G1 as the awesomest 3V@R.

First off, I never did. In fact, if you find the part where I said anything like that, I'll PM you an apology. Seriously. If I said anything that stupid and rude, like 'you are clearly a fool and a tasteless slob for finding enjoyment in these films,' I'd be disappointed in myself as a human. Saying that the movie stunk is not the same, and picking on the flaws of the movie is not the same as saying something that insensitive. So, find it for me, and I'll apologize. Otherwise, please dont paint me with the brush of ignorance just 'cause other people are ignorant. It's a damn movie, it;s not anything of consequence, and people who attack you as a goon of some kind becuase you like the movie, they should get preched at, not me for disliking the movie and 'daring' to say as much.[/quote]

People like what they like and they're entitled to that, but they should have the decency to show us enough respect to say "Okay, I don't agree, but hey, if it makes you happy, go for it! Enjoy!" I rarely see any anti-Bayverse voice say something like that.

No one's forcing you to watch or like these shows and movies, all we're asking you to do is be patient and wait for the next thing to come along. You might like it, and it might be worth the wait. We pro-movie fans don't seem to have the same courtesy thrown our way.

No, nobody says that I have to like any/everything. None of my posts have even insinuated that that's what anyone has said. That is something that I personally like about this site is that it SEEMS like people do get a fair shake in giving their opinions, more so than some of the other sites out there.

Dagon wrote:Did I have fun watching ROFT, was it enteraining to me? No, it was not. Am I bitter? No, but I didn't care for the movie. So what? Why, on a site dedicated to the exchange of ideas, do I have to have yours? Sure I like G1 better, and am aware of its flaws. But so what, am I not entitled to have that opinion, simply because something new has come along? G1 was a 30 minute commerical, how'sa bout all the toys that come out for the live action movies, some of which like Jolt for ROTF are figures of a 'charcater' who was on screen for mere seconds?

You don't have to share the same view we have. [/quote]

I know.

You just have to respect that it's our opinion and that we're entitled to it, just as you are entitled to your's. See, it's not really an exchange of ideas much anymore. It's more of a "We're gonna ram it down their throats!" mentality. We're either with you or against you, and that's just silliness.

Believe it or not, I do respect other's opinions.
It may not seem that way since I don;t share your opinion, but I do. In some other thread, LastJustice and I had a whole thing going about the 86 movie vs. ROTF and it came out really well. I'll let you guess what side of the conversation I fell on, but it was a well-reasoned conversation.
As for the throat ramming element, as long as you recognize that it comes from both sides of the aisle (like we're the Senate or something), I'm fine with your arguement. Both sides do it, whether they want to admit it or not. The flip side to your arguement is that people who feel that they're being attacked or whatever overwhelmingly tend to sit there and get all like "oh, what did I do?...." about everything, when they most of the time are just as intrangagent as the 'attacking' side.

And I commend you for being able to say what you said about G1.

IF you mean that I said it has its flaws, I don;t think I need to be commended. We're talking about a cartoon, it's not like I admitted I was a drug addict or something that people don't want to say but then get commended for having some epiphany. I'll tell you all day about the flaws of G1, it's not a big deal.

I feel the same way about the movie. Neither the cartoon, nor the movieverse are perfect. There are massive, visible flaws in each, but they're still enjoyable to the right audience. Just because they're right for one person, and not for another, doesn't mean we can't be a harmonious fandom. We are the ones stopping each other's happiness and joy. Everyone always has to be right and everyone else wrong, and that just doesn't work. No one, NO ONE, is right or wrong 100% of the time. And people seem to forget that an opinion is NOT a fact.

I think G1 sucks, I love the movieverse. Does that make what I FEEL, a fact? No. It's my OPINION. It's how I feel.

You feel the exact opposite. That's still your opinion and not a fact.

My favorite series is Beast Machines. So yeah, tell me about being internet-screeched at for something you like.

As for characters/figures like Jolt, you and I both know why that happened: You're right, it's a commercial, and he's there to make a buck. But even if they hadn't approached him from a commercial angle, the fans still would've cried out for a Jolt figure. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. They'd have cried foul and Hasbro would seemingly be able to do no right by the people unless they caved and made the figure. So sometimes it's not purely to make a buck, but also to shut us up. (Not saying they listen to us. Listening to people's concerns and simply shutting them up don't go hand in hand all the time.)

That's cause as fans, we suck. Like, catagorically and across the board, regardless of our personal preferences and/or 'respect' to the opinions of others. We see characters and we want them as toys. And when we get them as toys we are routinely unhappy 'cause they're not in scale or 'accurate' enough for our likings. When we can't find a particular toy we blame it on soulless scalpers and cry that no one thinks about the children so as to mask our own disappointment at not having the toy first/yet. When there's too much of a toy we cry that they aren;t stocking new merch fast enough. This unfortunately will probably never change. We are just an unhappy people by design, never content with the designs we get.

Dagon wrote:Hell, I don't care how much you liked the movie, and numerous times in numerous posts on all kinds of topics on this site for years I've said I was just stating my opinion, and if someone likes subject X then great for them, because life is about finding stuff that you like. I don't care what you enjoy, I'm just glad you enjoy it. That does not however preclude anyone elses' right to dislike something, no matter how much you like it.

No one said you had to care how much we like the movie, but we also don't have to give a DAMN what you think of the movie and how much you love G1, either. [/quote]
Very true.

If you're allowed to state your opinion, we are too.

I never once said that you weren't. I happen to enjoy conversation and the arguement and defense of differing views. That's kind of what I thought the purpose of virtually any of the threads on this site were for.

See...I read that you say the words, but I'm not sure you actually mean it. The entire tone of this post of your's has a negative slant to it. And you're entitled to it, but don't expect to throw it in our faces without someone throwing it back.

Ok, I know that this is going to end up being taken the wrong way, but try to read it open-mindedly. At the risk of sounding like some internet tough guy, which I'm really not trying to do, you don't know me at all, let alone well enough to question my sincerity in this or any other matter. Despite what my post may 'seem' like to you, don't question my intentions.
While my entire post may be negatively slanted, you come off like you're preaching to me, like I've been a bad boy or am a child or something. Please belive that I understand the principles on which exchange of opinions and ideas functions, and perhaps were this a verbal conversation things I may have said sarcastically would have been understood as such, and any vitriolic comments I made initially may have not been taken as being so bludgeoningly negative. I get it, honestly. This I also find to be a stupid defense, but if nothing else, I've been a site member here for like four years and have over 3000 posts, and all I mean by that is that it's relatively clear that this is not my first day, or that I don't know how to internet-behave.
I don't try to be condescending to people on this site, or in the more important matter of my actual life. Up to this point, your response has been smartly reasoned, but then you start doing this where you're 'not sure' if I meant the words I typed, and I do and I did. I'm 31 years old, I don't need to post on a website and act like a hardass to feel cool, so I don't come to Seibertron and make posts with the intention of being like "Yeah, showed them what a badass I am." I say what I mean, and I honestly do respect others opinions, and if you love the Movieverse and dont accept my sincere happiness for you, well, all I can do is try. I don't have to like it in order for you to like it, but my dislike of it isn't a condemnation against my sincereity as a human being.

Autobot032 wrote:

Dagon wrote:Here you go, I love the films of Ed Wood. Ok? 'Worst Filmmaker of all time?" Want to talk continuity errors and little to no development, hamfisted scripts and all the other things? Ed was you man. I find that entertaining. Compared to Glen or Glenda, ROTF was not entertaining to me, in my opinion. Yes, before I get lectured about how there are movies that have come out since Ed Wood's time and ones with better effects and scripts and bigger budgets, I know all of that. But sometimes, there's just no accounting for taste, and that's what this boils down to. Don't like Ed Wood? Guess who doesn't care? Me. I like him and his work, so that's enough to keep me satisfied. Go ahead and complain about something I like, I could care less. I just am a firm believer in the idea that I don't have to pay lip service and laud something that I don't feel deserves lauding. Sorry that offends people.

No one's offended that you don't like what they do. It's your attitude and delivery that offend people. No one's telling you that you have to like this, or can't like that. People can only do that if you let them. If it really bothers you what people think and have to say, you have some options:

1.) Ignore those posters. (Most boards have an ignore feature.)
2.) Ignore those topics. (If you know it'll bother you...)
3.) Ignore the product. (Don't like it? Don't watch or buy!)

See, this is what I meant up there. I know, I don't need to be told. You, or anyone else, could just as easily have ignored what I wrote, but you didn't. This idea works both ways as well. I don't mean that offensively, it's just the truth.

I know, I know, you're going to say "Why should I?" and I'll answer it with "Why shouldn't you?"

If their opinion sucks in your opinion, well then don't subject yourself to it. (You only have to listen when you choose to. Opt out.)

If the topic bothers you so much, don't read it. (Is it really that difficult to hit the "BACK" button, or...I dunno...not even load the page to begin with? Do you have to be a part of the conversation? Is it really necessary all the time? No. It isn't. BTW.)

I know all of this too. I entered a thread of my own volition, and it had a nebulous enough title that I figured it was alright to say what I thought. It's not like I was one of those fools that went into a pro-Bay thread and posted all kinds of things about how much I hate him or his body of work. I thought it was one of those threads where we could say stuff is all. I read most of the topics I find of interest on this site, and this one interested me, because I had already read what Bay said (extensive rhyme unintentional, really) and was disheartened by it. So, seeing as this thread was about Bay's comments on TF3, I entered and posted a response to said theme. It just so happened that hellkitty said much of what I was thinking, so I jumped on the back of her post. I knew what I was doing, and becuase I was/am sincere in my belief of what I posted, I posted it.

If the product doesn't meet your standards, find something else. (And don't tell me "I shouldn't have to!" Plenty of fans have had to, you are NO different, nor are you special.)


You don't HAVE to buy movieverse product, don't HAVE to like it, so don't even bother. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult thing to grasp.

If it doesn't wow you, that's your right, but past a certain point shouldn't you consider that maybe, just maybe, you're the one with the problem? When there's several options from past, present, and future to tide you over, and you can't seem to find much to like about it other than a handful of this or that...doesn't that tell you that you're the one with the problem? It should.

All things considered, I hardly think that being disinterested in the current offerings of an action figure line/cartoon series would classify me as having a problem.

There's a difference between having an opinion and being completely closed off.

There's something to like for EVERYONE. Whether it's just a single figure, or an entire line, there has to be something for everyone. If you still can't find anything to like about what's on the table, then you're definitely the one with the problem. Perhaps it's time to find another fandom or hobby to join. We're not asking you to leave, but why subject yourself to something you obviously don't like, on a constant basis?

While it's awful big of you not to be asking me to leave a website, if this entire conversation between you and I has dealt with the having of and respect for people's opinions, and that we have to deal with the opinions of others even if we (read: in this instance, me) disagree, isn't it slightly off the mark to say that if my opinion differs that I should probably not hang around a site where we (again, me) have to be open to the opinions of others? All things and posters considered, I'll bet you the deed to my house that I can find posters who are more fervently and more routinely whizzing on the movieverse than I am. (Take the bet, 'cause I rent, so I can't lose my house to you ) Even if I am the prime offender (which I all kindsa doubt) on Seibertron as far as this matter is concerned, if the premise once again of all this typing has been to share ideas, then I'm within my boundaries to be doing so. Sure I get sarcastic, most people do. Yes, I value my own opinion, and everyone should value their own opinion.

I don't like G1, I don't subject myself to it. Simple as that. *shrugs*

I don't get why this has to be so difficult for some people, I really don't.

It's not difficult at all. I'm jsut expressing my opinion, just like pro-Movievers-ers are. Only difference is that I'm in the negative as far as your view goes, but you're in the negative as far as my view goes.
Despite all of it, I still am glad lots of people enjoy the movies, and I still do hope you continue to enjoy the movies even though I don't, whether you feel that that should be believed or not, don't change the fact that it's true.

EDIT: Editted becuase my 'quote' tags were a nightmare. Had to fix them.

Anyone know the credentials of the new writer, what he has written???

I dont think that Ive ever seen a Michael Bay movie without ten thousand explosions but I believe that if he wanted to tone them down that it would help the movie that much more. It might get some of the critics, that say the last one was just a script with poor dialouge and action scenes, off his back. I cannot wait for this movie to come out

Whiteout8 wrote:I dont think that Ive ever seen a Michael Bay movie without ten thousand explosions but I believe that if he wanted to tone them down that it would help the movie that much more. It might get some of the critics, that say the last one was just a script with poor dialouge and action scenes, off his back. I cannot wait for this movie to come out

They will never get off his back. Bay's had one, maybe two movies that were given semi-positive reviews, but for the most part, he's panned universally.

Granted, his work isn't exactly what you're expecting, but I've seen worse. (And of course, I've seen better.)

The script could be made out of 24k gold, the actors could be replaced by robots programmed by the most brilliant minds at Julliard, the special effects and robots cleaned up and made even more realistic, and the critics would still find some way to complain.

It's built into them and they're not willing to shut it off.

I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK

Autobot032 wrote:
They will never get off his back. Bay's had one, maybe two movies that were given semi-positive reviews, but for the most part, he's panned universally.

Granted, his work isn't exactly what you're expecting, but I've seen worse. (And of course, I've seen better.)

The script could be made out of 24k gold, the actors could be replaced by robots programmed by the most brilliant minds at Julliard, the special effects and robots cleaned up and made even more realistic, and the critics would still find some way to complain.

It's built into them and they're not willing to shut it off.

I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK

With the full understanding that whatever I say will be vilified, here goes:

In all reality, critics are critics. Their job is to critique. True, lots of things that end up being popular with the masses have been dammned by the critics. But if all they did was say that everything everyone did was terrific, we would complain that they like everything. The problem is that when they don't like what we like, we get upset.
I've said this before, so feel free to skip it and yell at me. I love Ed Wood films. He is widely considered the worst director of all time, and his films go essentially 1-2-3 on the worst films of all time lists, regardless of who writes them up or when they were written up. But I don't care, 'casue I like Ed Wood films. Ed Wood to me is a better director than Michael Bay, and you can save the 'but Bay has money/makes money/zomg ROTF" arguement becuase it's pointless. None of Bay's movies are really worthy of critical acclaim. The guy makes action movies, and I don't know, maybe it's not this way in other people's universes, but action moives have never really been known for winning Oscars and getting universal critical acclaim.
As for critics finding something to complain about all the time, again, it's their job. I could say they're entitled to their opinions, but no one listens to that anymore. The point is they are critics, and they're doing their jobs. Sure, sometimes they're on the take and won't give good reviews for something for some siniter reasons, but I have a real hard time even entertaining the idea that it's like an anti-Bay conspiricay without thinking "Boy, that's a stupid idea."
I've repeatedly expressed my affinity for sub-ROTF quality films, and it doesn;t matter how much you loved ROTF, you know that Plan 9 From Outer Space is worse than ROTF, and yet the only thing that actually gets talked about it that somebody's trying to be 'trendy' by not loving ROTF. No one ever says "Yeah, such and what may not love ROTF, but at least they admit that things which are worse do exist." No one ever says that maybe Bay just hasn't made Citizen Kane, or Gone with the Wind, or Titanic, but instead he made PEarl Harbor and Bad Boys and Transformers. Just because he made a summer blockbuster or several doesn't mean that he must be given a star on the walk of fame. Although, they do tend to give those to anyone nowadays. Even Lugosi got one, and the kids from that insufferable Twilgiht crap will get them too maybe.
I'm sure you're just going to say that I'm being rude or ignorant or whatever, but it could be that the critics don't praise Bay becuase they don't feel that he's done anything praise-worthy as of yet. Not everyone gets a gold medal, since not everyone comes in first place.

Night Raid wrote:After reading all this, I have something to say.

Give it up, you guys! There's no such thing as perfection. Nothing is good enough for you, is it? G1 was a 30 minute long glorified toy commercial riddled with enough animation errors to fill a whole website, half the characterizations seem to be fanon anyway, yet somehow nothing can measure up to it? It's a nitpicker's paradise and a half! And the '86 movie was little better. They killed off every character people loved, threw in a bunch of total strangers who didn't even pause to mourn the lost and expected us to instantly care about THEM instead, then threw them up against a random villain who came out of nowhere and took pulling an epic MacGuffin out of somebody's ass to kill. Now, I understand the nostalgia factor, but that can't be your only argument in favor of something! We've had a good dozen Transformers incarnations since then, yet each time you guys nitpick and nitpick each one until they unravel like spools of yarn, then crow about how awful they are and how much they suck. You don't bother to notice the good points. All that matters is the bad, and nothing else. To Hell with the fact that you had fun! That's the point of movies and TV shows. They're supposed to be fun ways to pass the time, not something to analyze to death. You're supposed to take them for what they are.

And as to the new movies, you're forgetting two things concerning human involvement and explosions. One: Given the fact that this is Earth and humans aren't likely to sit back and let a war rage for the fate of their planet without getting involved in it. If it was you, I doubt you'd say "Oh look, they're fighting over whether to spare me, my species and everything I hold dear or subject them all to a horrific death. I think I'll sit on the sidelines and watch to see who wins." Two: Things explode in war, especially when very powerful, highly advanced weapons are involved. Haven't any of you gone to at least ONE history class? Wars are full of things blowing up and getting blown up. Bombs, mortar shells, IEDs... And consider how advanced Cybertronian tech is. They've had EONS to make bigger weapons, stronger weapons, weapons that make bigger explosions, weapons that do more damage...

I'm sorry about snapping on you guys like that, but if there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who overanalyze things that really don't need to be overanalyzed, rather than simply having fun with them.

Night raid...will you marry me....(snaps out of it) well said I mean haha. You saved me alot of typing. I relish the idea of revisiting G1 about as much as I would like to revisit Basic training. It served it's purpose but I don't need it again. Give me something new.

Don't turn us into Star Wars and Star Trek fans.

Honestly our ranks are becoming just as bad about being unaccepting to anything new as they are.


I've seen alot of really bad ideas posted in this thread, which I'd likely been much more unhappy with your fanwank than whatever Michael Bay going make.

Like Unicron, he was a useless villain. A plot device magnet. He won't provide an interesting foe, so lets hope he never shows up. I mean he ate a couple planets in the 86 film, he basically got his butt kicked(literally by the Dinobots.) by stuff much smaller than him. He then got blown up by the matrix which was fueled by Justcausism. I never want to see him in a movie. He's poorly handled and overused. Leave him out please.

As for going back to Cybertron? Not going happen on a large scale chances are.(referenced or shown briefly perhaps.) That would mean taking majority of humans out of the picture then, and there's no endorsements in that. They are going to Chicago though if that isn't cool landscape I don't know what is hehe. (I'm betting money the air and water show is why, free use of all vehicles there without having pay get them there.)

I don't foresee alot of use of Cybertron. They'd been better off making an all CGI movie like the new teenage mutant ninja turtles if they were going tell the entire story in space and without humans.

Autobot032 wrote:

Whiteout8 wrote:I dont think that Ive ever seen a Michael Bay movie without ten thousand explosions but I believe that if he wanted to tone them down that it would help the movie that much more. It might get some of the critics, that say the last one was just a script with poor dialouge and action scenes, off his back. I cannot wait for this movie to come out

They will never get off his back. Bay's had one, maybe two movies that were given semi-positive reviews, but for the most part, he's panned universally.

Granted, his work isn't exactly what you're expecting, but I've seen worse. (And of course, I've seen better.)

The script could be made out of 24k gold, the actors could be replaced by robots programmed by the most brilliant minds at Julliard, the special effects and robots cleaned up and made even more realistic, and the critics would still find some way to complain.

It's built into them and they're not willing to shut it off.

I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK

[quote="Autobot032]


I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK[/quote]

I don't think they have partners.....Ebert. Malten. Goofball 3. Goofball 4. Goofball 5.........

Honestly, this whole debate was boring before the 07 movie. Then it was boring after the 07 movie. Then it was boring before RoTF. Then after RoTF. And now it is here again. Such a waste of time. We aren't dealing with empirical facts here, people. Opinions are far different from facts. NOONE WILL BE ABLE TO WIN THESE DEBATES!!

Prime Riblet wrote:[quote="Autobot032]


I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK[/quote]

I don't think they have partners.....Ebert. Malten. Goofball 3. Goofball 4. Goofball 5.........[/quote]

Er...Ebert has a wife, actually. And at least one child with her, perhaps more.

Autobot032 wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:[quote="Autobot032]


I couldn't imagine living with a critic. Their spouses and significant others must absolutely dread conversations with them. They have to be marrying for love, money, or both, because their personalities SUCK[/quote]

I don't think they have partners.....Ebert. Malten. Goofball 3. Goofball 4. Goofball 5.........[/quote][/quote]


Er...Ebert has a wife, actually. And at least one child with her, perhaps more.[/quote]

I was just being silly, but if they do have families and offspring, then they you SHOULD NOT.

We hating critics in general here or just critics of ROTF? You can't watch something and not form an opinion..unless you're dead...or braindead.

Lastjustice wrote: Like Unicron, he was a useless villain. A plot device magnet. He won't provide an interesting foe, so lets hope he never shows up. I mean he ate a couple planets in the 86 film, he basically got his butt kicked(literally by the Dinobots.) by stuff much smaller than him. He then got blown up by the matrix which was fueled by Justcausism. I never want to see him in a movie. He's poorly handled and overused. Leave him out please.

Unicron is not over used. He was only in 4 series. 5 if you count Beast Wars. Out of all the other series out there. I think it'd be cool to see a movie Unicron and Primus. Heres somthing new. Unicron and Primus could fight! Thats somthing thats never happened yet. And there supposed to be nemisses and crap, and have never faught! I want to see that.

SlyTF1 wrote:

Lastjustice wrote: Like Unicron, he was a useless villain. A plot device magnet. He won't provide an interesting foe, so lets hope he never shows up. I mean he ate a couple planets in the 86 film, he basically got his butt kicked(literally by the Dinobots.) by stuff much smaller than him. He then got blown up by the matrix which was fueled by Justcausism. I never want to see him in a movie. He's poorly handled and overused. Leave him out please.

Unicron is not over used. He was only in 4 series. 5 if you count Beast Wars. Out of all the other series out there. I think it'd be cool to see a movie Unicron and Primus. Heres somthing new. Unicron and Primus could fight! Thats somthing thats never happened yet. And there supposed to be nemisses and crap, and have never faught! I want to see that.

I would definately like to see Unicron done... even if it was just as a flashback to the birth of the Transformers. The guy just brings in a whole bag of EPICness (i made that word up).

SEXFIGHTER wrote:We hating critics in general here or just critics of ROTF? You can't watch something and not form an opinion..unless you're dead...or braindead.

It is ok for an critic to form an opinion, but it is not ok when a critic tries to cram his opinions down peoples' throats as if they are fact. I am speaking mostly about Roger Ebert. That bastard hasn't had anyone willing to stand up to him since Gene Siskel died.

Prime Riblet wrote:

SEXFIGHTER wrote:We hating critics in general here or just critics of ROTF? You can't watch something and not form an opinion..unless you're dead...or braindead.

It is ok for an critic to form an opinion, but it is not ok when a critic tries to cram his opinions down peoples' throats as if they are fact. I am speaking mostly about Roger Ebert. That bastard hasn't had anyone willing to stand up to him since Gene Siskel died.

True, they were a great team because they kept each other in check. Now Ebert's ego is so out of control he calls people who disagree with him unevolved.