The Energon Pub

Rodimus_Prime13 wrote:"When you finally come down off of your high horses (gotta be nosebleedin' by now I'd figure..., and before you say it, no the air isn't better up there.) and pull the saddle out of your asses, you might...just might wake up and say "Ya know what? They're right. I still don't like the movie because of what they did to my favorites, but doggone it...it was fun. And I didn't even have a heart attack either. YAY! I CAN HAVE FUN AND IT WON'T KILL ME! WHEE!""

I am not on the level that some haters are about this. And I did enjoy the film. That is why I said it is teetering on the edge. If Bay doesn't make some serious changes, it will be in the 5.99 rack next to Godzilla. There is enough to work with that I feel he can do it. But this franchise is in critical condition. Films with no character development and a hard to follow plot die off after the initial buzz.

Amen brother. We all know the cartoons past (since beast wars) and future aren't doing much to promote the franchise in the best possible fashion.

First off, we can practically expect to see a sequel because of the money it is making and the way sequels are happening all of the time.

I had my doubts, but I loved the movie. I think Bay did a great job, and if there is a sequel, I sure hope he does it. Nothing is worse than someone else taking the reigns.......

Master_Prime wrote:I had my doubts, but I loved the movie. I think Bay did a great job, and if there is a sequel, I sure hope he does it. Nothing is worse than someone else taking the reigns.......

Um, so would it be safe to assume you've never seen Aliens, Empire Strikes Back, Batman Begins, etc. etc.?

Asderiphel wrote:I deserve a better movie.

Urination jokes and racial stereotypes certainly don't legitimize any mythology. It does erode 20+ years of creating one, though.

I went in to the theater knowing it was going to be dumb, but excited to see big robots...but what I saw was a shining example of lowest-common denominator writing. Bay's directing was fine; Orci & Kurtzman should go back to whatever it is they're good at (apparently selling themselves, cause they sure can't write). They failed the concept: there are TWO warring factions of Transformers, and each side is full of characterization. I don't need cops tackling a fat black guy into the pool, I don't need Anthony Andersen AT ALL, and I don't need Bumblebee 'lubricating' anybody.

Why do we have to "settle"? Think about this for a second, if there are no FX fight scenes, what sort of movie is left? Star Wars IV-VI, Batman, all the really good action movies...Terminator, Die Hard for crying out loud, had something else besides big explosions. This movie is about as good as ROTS; some parts are great, and some parts are "NOOOOOOOOO!" bad.

Bay & Co. made the Hollywood equivalent of a good porn film; all the big scenes keep you interested, and the money shots are great, but the rest of the film is just filler.

Yay, sequel. I hope it's better than this one. If not, we'll have to wait 10 years for somebody to 'revive' the franchise and hope they get it right then.

qft

Buttz wrote:

Master_Prime wrote:I had my doubts, but I loved the movie. I think Bay did a great job, and if there is a sequel, I sure hope he does it. Nothing is worse than someone else taking the reigns.......

Um, so would it be safe to assume you've never seen Aliens, Empire Strikes Back, Batman Begins, etc. etc.?

Aliens is not better than Alien IMHO.
Empire strikes back isn't even a complete story...there's no end...
and please....we all begged for someone to take over the Batman franchise after the whole...let's put Batnipples on the suit while they fight the Governator.

And why do people blame bay for the script anyway...he's the director, not the writer? What was wrong with the direction of the film?

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:

Buttz wrote:

Master_Prime wrote:I had my doubts, but I loved the movie. I think Bay did a great job, and if there is a sequel, I sure hope he does it. Nothing is worse than someone else taking the reigns.......

Um, so would it be safe to assume you've never seen Aliens, Empire Strikes Back, Batman Begins, etc. etc.?

Aliens is not better than Alien IMHO.
Empire strikes back isn't even a complete story...there's no end...
and please....we all begged for someone to take over the Batman franchise after the whole...let's put Batnipples on the suit while they fight the Governator.

And why do people blame bay for the script anyway...he's the director, not the writer? What was wrong with the direction of the film?

Can't comment on Aliens.

ESB, was a complete story. With a cliffhanger ending, which was necessary, but it was a complete story.

Batman Begins is not a sequel, it's a rebirth of the entire mythos, a new direction for the whole series. <- for Buttz

Buttz wrote:Dammit now I'm pissed. I'm going to the gym.

Okay, now that's excessive. If a person's differing opinion can piss you off enough that you feel a need to work out your aggression on workout machines, then perhaps it's not relaxation you need...

Autobot032 wrote:Can't comment on Aliens.

That's just not right ...

Burn wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:Can't comment on Aliens.

That's just not right ...

I couldn't stomach the gore. I just couldn't do it. When something brings me that much discomfort, then I need no part of it.

Sorry.

*sniffles* You won't hate me, will you?

Asderiphel wrote:Bay & Co. made the Hollywood equivalent of a good porn film; all the big scenes keep you interested, and the money shots are great, but the rest of the film is just filler.

That was kind of funny considering that according to IMDb one of his directoral debuts was a Playboy Centerfolds video.

Asderiphel wrote:Why do we have to "settle"? Think about this for a second, if there are no FX fight scenes, what sort of movie is left? Star Wars IV-VI, Batman, all the really good action movies...Terminator, Die Hard for crying out loud, had something else besides big explosions. This movie is about as good as ROTS; some parts are great, and some parts are "NOOOOOOOOO!" bad.

I was just thinking about that. All three Pirates of the Carribean movies are just as action-packed, but I'd be able to watch them over and over again. Lots of characterization, plot twists, story arcs, and tasteful humor throughout. Both the 2007 movie and the 1986 movie were nothing more than big toy commercials, but I'd rather see the 1986 movie because the characterization was strong. I'd rather watch the entire run of Beast Wars because the writers were competent. Pirates was made to hock a Disneyland ride, so you can't tell me that a "toy commercial" can't have heart or depth.

Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:And why do people blame bay for the script anyway...he's the director, not the writer? What was wrong with the direction of the film?

That's right; that's why I've lightened up a little on Bay (although he's also listed as an Executive Producer). The lack of depth is largely the fault of the scriptwriters. I've been considering putting my money where my mouth is and writing my own take on the Transformers movie that should have been, but I won't be able to start on it for a few weeks at the least, if my interest doesn't wane.

Blozor wrote:

Asderiphel wrote:Bay & Co. made the Hollywood equivalent of a good porn film; all the big scenes keep you interested, and the money shots are great, but the rest of the film is just filler.

That was kind of funny considering that according to IMDb one of his directoral debuts was a Playboy Centerfolds video.

Asderiphel wrote:Why do we have to "settle"? Think about this for a second, if there are no FX fight scenes, what sort of movie is left? Star Wars IV-VI, Batman, all the really good action movies...Terminator, Die Hard for crying out loud, had something else besides big explosions. This movie is about as good as ROTS; some parts are great, and some parts are "NOOOOOOOOO!" bad.

I was just thinking about that. All three Pirates of the Carribean movies are just as action-packed, but I'd be able to watch them over and over again. Lots of characterization, plot twists, story arcs, and tasteful humor throughout. Both the 2007 movie and the 1986 movie were nothing more than big toy commercials, but I'd rather see the 1986 movie because the characterization was strong. I'd rather watch the entire run of Beast Wars because the writers were competent. Pirates was made to hock a Disneyland ride, so you can't tell me that a "toy commercial" can't have heart or depth.

I've been considering putting my money where my mouth is and writing my own take on the Transformers movie that should have been, but I won't be able to start on it for a few weeks at the least, if my interest doesn't wane.

Pirates II was a half hour two long, but that's not the point. The point is that II and IIII were filmed at the same time.

Here's hoping they'll do the same thing with Transformers.

I'm just thankful this movie was made. Who ever thought a live action Transformers movie would ever be made? I sure didn't. I'm sure Hasbro had just as much or more say as Bay did when it came to the new designs. It's there baby after all. They are the one selling the toys. Auguring back and forth about it isn't going to change anything. It's made, It's done.
Like it or don't like it, we all get the point.

Fans are TOO demanding these days.

I hope a sequel has less people in it. I loved the transformers themselves but all the people not so much. It was too much, scattered all over the place, stuff that never went anywhere or finished, too much attempted humor. So yea, I think with a movie like this the sequel will be a lot better, at least I hope. I wanna see lots of machines.

This movie doesn’t have the reachable factor to me at all. Unlike say the POTC movies I can watch over and over or an older movie, talking machines, like Terminator 2. I have higher hopes for a sequel.

You guys (most of you) I feel are all making good points. I completely agree that there was no character development. However those of you that expected character development (the TF's) should not have. The TF's were super expensive to render and they had to minimize their screen time. So do you want them standing around talking or fighting? And I too felt we were really jipped when jazz died and Op just goes "awww we lost a good friend" give him a little more props then that. That was my biggest gripe with the film. Othen than that I loved it and I accept it for what it is.

Buttz wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:

Buttz wrote:ah crap. I hope he goes and does one of the "couple things... on the horizon" and they hire someone- ANYONE - else for the sequel.

Your opinion is wrong.

The movie kicked ass.

Thousands of Transformers fans at BotCon and around the world are in support of my statement (See above).

Millions of dollars have been made in like, oh, two days, which also goes a long way to saying your opinion is wrong.

Credit where credit is due.

Bay made an excellent movie and did the Transformers modern day justice.

The same could be said of Episode 1 when it came out. But now that time has passed and reality has sunk in, not even the most die-hard fan can justify Jar Jar.

Wrong.

Die Hard Fan Here. Jar Jar had just a big a part to play in the Star Wars Saga as Chewbacca did.

You are so, SO wrong.

All of you haters make me laugh. We've had 20 years of character development. Good luck to the script writers that have to compact that into a 2.5 hour movie.

All I gotta say is if sequil(s) are made I don't want anyone responsible for the designs or the script involved in future movies. That of course includes Micheal Bay, Roberto Orchi and everyone else whoes names I'm forgetting at the moment.

At this point I wouldn't even care if they for no reason got new forms in the next movie as long as they don't like gient piles of scrap metal anymore. That really ruined all the fight sceens for me.

I want designers/animators and a director who will give more classic designs a chance and I want wrighters who will actully give the Transformers screen time.

I can tell you more about the lives of any human in that movie than any of the Transformers. I don't know 1 damn thing about any of their personalitys or backrounds with Bumblebee being the only exception. It was like, the Transformers had so little character development I didn't even care about them weather they lived or died but Bumblebee and all the humans I worried about, I cared about them.

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:Die Hard Fan Here.

That's the problem, when people get to that extreme stage of blind idolization (more commonly referred to as being a "fanboy") there is no capacity left for objectivity.

LuckytheWonderLlama wrote:Jar Jar had just a big a part to play in the Star Wars Saga as Chewbacca did.

Have you seen The Phantom Edit? Much better, much less Jar Jar. Also the idea that he is as indispensable to the story as Chewbacca is complete rubbish, since his role is greatly reduced in Episode II and completely eliminated in Episode III.

DJediX wrote:I'm just thankful this movie was made. Who ever thought a live action Transformers movie would ever be made? I sure didn't. I'm sure Hasbro had just as much or more say as Bay did when it came to the new designs. It's there baby after all. They are the one selling the toys. Auguring back and forth about it isn't going to change anything. It's made, It's done.
Like it or don't like it, we all get the point.

Fans are TOO demanding these days.

Fans weren't demanding, they were disgusted and shocked by the horrids choices for the movie designs but we forgived and moved on.

If there's a sequel, I don't expect it to be more than it is, especially if it's Bay directing. Bay wasn't bad, he did what was expected from him, he just a action-chase with loud explosions, some side comedy and hot eye candy attaction for us, a very simple director. I enjoyed the movie very much, the special effects were amazing. Could have been done so much beter, but ...well it's a summer blockbuster with Bay.

I'm not even holding my breath for a better looking anything, they will ignore us, which totually blows. So, all I hope for is more of my fave deceptions to come back and autobots, with a bit more deep character development, that would be cool. Can't wait!

"It was like, the Transformers had so little character development I didn't even care about them weather they lived or died but Bumblebee and all the humans I worried about, I cared about them."

My thoughts exactly.

I did care for them personally, but it was just because they were "Ironhide" "Ratchet" "Bumblebee" etc. Not because they where developed in this film.

As for Episode 1, the acting (minus Jar Jar) was better in Episode 1 then it was in any of the other movies by far. I wanted to pimp slap Whinykin Skywalker in 2 and 3 every time he was on the screen. Darth Maul was a far more convincing Sith then Count (lets put someone from LOTR in there!) Dooku. Even Samuel Jackson was off in 2 and most of 3. The fight choreography in 2 (Looked like they where wielding flashlights) was laughable. And in 3 it looked like they where desperetly trying to top what they did in 1. (Fell short of the mark though there was improvement.)

Something else that bugged me, is that people because of Jar Jar hate the whole Gungan race. Watch Episode 1 sometime and ignore Jar Jar and watch what the rest of the Gungans are doing. One of them takes a battle droid's gun and starts beating it do death with it. Another one dive tackles a Destroyer Droid. Jar Jar was the village idiot. They threw him out for a reason.

People focus too much on Jar Jar when it comes to Episode 1. It became the "Fanboy" thing to tell everyone you hated that movie.

People complain alot.

Robinson wrote:People complain alot.

I'd argue that remark but I'd be further proving your point. So, touche'.

take a step back ppl. its only a 2 hr movie ppl. minus fanboy's knowing every detail of what character development COULD happen...

what do we have here? a first movie to introduce an amazaing concept...

GIANT ALIEN ROBOTS ON EARTH .. .and like fighting with them and them amoungst themesevlves.

that's a lot to swallow for a movie IN ITSELF. so what CAN a director and script accomplish in a first movie. If I was a director/script writer... I'd be psyched if fans only real complaints were complaining about not enough development of 20yr history of a like 100s of characters and design issues.

NOT a word of complaint about robots transforming and fighting? the reality of it?

WOW. that says a lot. The CORE of transformers is TRANSFORMING ROBOTS being amoung us--as a BELIEVABLE REALITY. missions accomplished.

The rest of the movies can go from there...now that we've bought into the concept.

oh PS. if ppl expected MORE outta the film... I think they did a GREAT job given the limits of well...2 hrs for ANY movie.

like I said, I think the main goal was to sell the concept. and have a helluva lot of fun doign it (watching it). DONE. so, that said.... even according to many hatas here... they DID accomplish a lot:

- Give humans character development and one contact robot character (bumblebee), and brief history (op's recap) of the transformers. good enough (if for now).

- Let us be amazed by the giants robots...as the rest of humanity in the movie.... and be blown away. Imagine from the movie character's perspective: they didn't have time to worry about the personality of decepticons as they don't know their 20 yr history and are well...getttin attacked. And thus its reasonable ... neither should we AT THIS POINT.

We are now hyped/overwhelmed with the giant robots (as we should be) and hyped to see more and get into "character development" of the TRans in other movies (as we should be). We know there IS character to be had as an audience as we already have aa "touch point" and idea with bumblebee (again, good enough for now).

you have plenty of movies (this threads is about possiblily going into 6 movies no?) to get into Transformer character development. starscream blast off into space at the end... can't imagine there isn't going to be a lot about him in next movie.

I just can hear the complaints of TOO much about a character in later movies and why its not right from the history etc. sheeesh. I'm an old shchool Marvel comic reader..but gave up on movies matching comic histories exactly long ago. its a different universe BASED off those characters.

character development will come. RELAX. the point of the first movie is to be blown away and in awe.

mission VERY accomplished.

Best time I had going to the movies in as far as I can remember. (irongically since maybe seeing Return of the Jedi as a kid). that's says A LOT. and as such Bay and Co should be given MAJOR PROPS for it.

bring on 4...5...6 with pleasure.

First Gen wrote:

Robinson wrote:People complain alot.

I'd argue that remark but I'd be further proving your point. So, touche'.

I think I summed up this thread nicely

I agree with Hot Rod. I read an article (in WIRED I think) that describes Bay as "more of a jock than a geek." I thought that was a perfect analogy. Here we have someone who embodies the "showbiz" aspect of filmmaking and has an utter disregard, perhaps even contempt, for the artistic potential of the medium. The directors mentioned above all have one thing in common, and that is a maniacal passion for making movies; you know they'd still be doing it even if there was no money involved. With Bay it is clear that this is not the case.