The Energon Pub

News Credits: 5 · by **Omega Sentinel** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:30 am

All Minicon functionality and Kremzeeks will be going away over the next couple of days.

For now they are not feasible for the game.

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:55 am

And bot modes?

News Credits: 5 · by **Omega Sentinel** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:56 am

Tammuz wrote:And bot modes?

Sure. Why not. I'll go ahead and remove those too.

If there is anything else technical that I've implemented which you guys think should be removed just speak up. Now's your chance.

News Credits: 3 · by **Archanubis** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:04 am

Omega Sentinel wrote:
Tammuz wrote:And bot modes?
Sure. Why not. I'll go ahead and remove those too.

I think he was asking if those were going away as well, not requesting if they were leaving.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Tam

News Credits: 7 · by **Chaoslock** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:16 am

Omega Sentinel wrote:All Minicon functionality and Kremzeeks will be going away over the next couple of days.

For now they are not feasible for the game.

Are they going away for... forever or just for the current game...

and for second... why? there is only limited number of them (just sold one, it should be in the armory) and they are fun... :sad:

more fun than any other weapon.

News Credits: 1 · by **Jeep?** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:22 am

Ach, poop. May as well sell mine for the cash if I still can.

by **Rat Convoy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:27 am

I'd like to keep bot modes, thanks.

How come you're removing stuff? Guess I better start using those minicons I've got squirreled away before they go away.

by **Bun-Bun** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:32 am

I wasn't aware that there was a problem.. both Kremzeeks and Minicons have been working fine for me... I'll admit I don't read the insecticons thread so perhaps it's my own fault for knowing the trouble...

Other than the Comp/bulk problem I didn't think that the Bot mode needed removed as well...

Can someone point me to where I can find info about these problems?

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:45 am

Thunderscream wrote:
Omega Sentinel wrote:
Tammuz wrote:And bot modes?
Sure. Why not. I'll go ahead and remove those too.

I think he was asking if those were going away as well, not requesting if they were leaving.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Tam

correct, however the way the bot modes are implemented has some problems, the game mechanics in v1 are built about stats varying between 0-10 when you go past those limits stuff starts getting multiplied by less than 1, which starts boosting things by exponetial amounts, so removing them isn't exactly what i want, i like them just not the maths behind them

me and cealus (or sprokitz, or Mkall, can't remember who) came up with a rather simple way of making them viable(perhaps too simple)

kremzeeks and minicons going has made my day

News Credits: 1 · by **Jeep?** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:52 am

Tammuz wrote:the game mechanics in v1 are built about stats varying between 0-10 when you go past those limits stuff starts getting multiplied by less than 1, which starts boosting things by exponetial amounts

No it doesn't. The only exponents in the game are the xp per percent damage stats.

News Credits: 42 · by **Psychout** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:55 am

I thought the botmodes were great. Do we have to lose them too?

News Credits: 5 · by **Omega Sentinel** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:56 am

I'll leave the bot modes in.

FYI -
Don't panic when you see your minicon section gone. They have just been successfully removed.

News Credits: 1 · by **Jeep?** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:58 am

I demand a refund.

News Credits: 7 · by **Chaoslock** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:00 pm

Just a question: Instead of removing the Kremzeeks, can't you just make them plain weapons?

by **Rat Convoy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:00 pm

Crap, you removed them before I had a chance to use them up.

Again, I'm kinda curious as to why this stuff is going. But thank you for leaving bot modes, I like those.

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:03 pm

Jeep? wrote:
Tammuz wrote:the game mechanics in v1 are built about stats varying between 0-10 when you go past those limits stuff starts getting multiplied by less than 1, which starts boosting things by exponetial amounts

No it doesn't. The only exponents in the game are the xp per percent damage stats.

alright it's not exponetial but it gets beigger really quickly

1/2=0.5
1/1.5=0.67
1/1=1
1/0.5=2
1/0.1=10

so for the first 10 upgrades will improve it by the same amount each, but the next 9 will have much more of an effect, whith each additional upgrade increaseing the stat by more than the preivious so that by the time you get to the 19th upgrade its giving the same boost to your stat as the first 10 did cumulatively.

edit: got that wrong 19th upgrade is worth 100 times as much as the first ten upgrgrades are indivdually.

News Credits: 3 · by **DISCHARGE** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:09 pm

I would have liked to use up the minicons I had in my inventory. I spent good energon on them and now they are just gone. Some of them were members of my team and survived
several missions. Now Kremzeek is going too.
BOO!!

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:11 pm

I'd laugh at the Decepticons who hoarded their Minicons for endgame...

But I did too. :-(

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:14 pm

right for anyone who thinks this is bad; NERFING IS GOOD
!

Shadwolf wrote:"Nerf! Nerf!" is the eternal cry on dev boards whenever something is perceived as being weakened by the game's designers. Let us suspend disbelief for a moment and assume that for once the implementors of patches are not making a horrible mistake based on skewed misinformation about the way the game works, and that this "nerf" is being used correctly: as a balancing technique. Something in the game has been identified as being too powerful, and a nerf is required to bring it in line.

Used in this way, the nerf is an excellent and vital method of maintaining a sense of balance. If you choose to not nerf the offending object, a universal (and much misbegotten) policy in Asheron's Call, there are only two other options open to you:

* Buff everything else until it seems like everything is in line
* Leave it broken

Neither of these "solutions" works. The first option, the common solution for power problems in Asheron's Call, leads to unstoppable and never-ending inflation of player power. It also tends to lead to more problems than you initially had. If element 4 of a weapon set including 1 through 9 is considered overpowered and you subsequently buff weapons 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 to compensate, you run a tremendous risk that one of these weapons is now overpowered, which leads to another cycle of buffing, etc. etc. Compare this to the nerfing cycle: element 4 is nerfed back down to a balanced level, and if you nerf too far, you can always nudge it back up slowly until it works. This, coincidentally, was the "pendulum" method of fixes during Asheron's Call beta, and it worked considerably better than the "no nerfs" nonsense they use now.

The second method, leaving the game broken, is even worse, but it happens on a semiregular basis. In games that are not persistent, like Age of Kings (early), the trebuchet was horribly unrealistic and therefore could be used to devastating effect. Why bother building a mixed force if a trebuchet is as easy to maintain as a peasant levy, and far more devastating and hard to destroy? (To their credit, the publisher did eventually patch this.) In Heavy Gear, the bazooka was implemented as a guided weapon (which is incorrect from the standpoint of the original Heavy Gear tabletop system), and if you could get one, there was little reason to get anything else. This was never changed. Typically, such a game's publisher looks at a product like this as a product with built-in obsolescence, and so he leaves it broken rather than devoting company resources to fixing it, when that manpower could be steered into producing their next income-generating broken game. The buying public is gullible and stupid as a rule, and although I might never again buy a product made by that team as a result of their shortsightedness, many others will. It's easy to see where the profit lies. (NOTE: The only game to ever be successfully and persistently fixed for balance after publication is Starcraft. End result: Starcraft is one of the most popular computer games of its time, and the absolute best RTS game on the market even today.)

In a persistent subscriber-based game like an MMORPG, there is considerably more pressure on the development team to fix mistakes and address balance issues, but it doesn't always happen. In Ultima Online, lord of all buggy cesspools, bugs that allowed cheaters to loot houses and instakill other players were not fixed for a very long time, explained away as "creative uses of magic," until subscribers began cancelling in droves, at which point this sort of bug abuse suddenly became their biggest concern. In Everquest, there are character classes that have never been on par with other classes, and they have never been fixed despite subscribers leaving. In Asheron's Call, foolish mistakes like tuskers being worth an inordinate amount of XP for the risk involved in killing them should be considered game-destroying snafus, but it has been publically stated that they will not be reworking these creatures, most likely due to this "no nerfs" bullshit.

Let me digress a little more about Asheron's Call and the value of nerfing for a moment, as I have some experience with this game system and its absurd policy of not nerfing. One of the largest problems with Asheron's Call is the predominance of the 3-school archer/melee, particularly the melee. The initial buffing of these classes was due to a perceived dominance of mages in killing effectiveness. This was a correct observation, but the answer (buffing other character types) was absolutely the wrong one, and led to a nigh-infinite series of additional class problems that have only gotten worse through the game's history. The correct solution was to look at why the mage was so powerful. The answer was that the mage had an extremely powerful attack (war), but it was also nearly impervious to damage due to the overwhelming power of Life and Item protections. The correct response would have been to nerf these protections and their associated vulnerabilities, most especially Imperil. Had this been done right away, we would not be seeing the sorts of absurd class problems that fuel the fires of particularly vitriolic ranters.

yeah i'm sorry they didn't quite work, but i'm raking in xp far too easily, there's no challenge for me anymore i bung my lot in in the first 6 missions available, i don't bother looking at the levels, or my opponents and a week later i've earnt 50K in energon.

News Credits: 5 · by **Omega Sentinel** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:16 pm

DISCHARGE wrote: I spent good energon on them and now they are just gone.

Just gave everyone in the game 200,000 energon to compensate.

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:19 pm

Omega Sentinel wrote:
DISCHARGE wrote: I spent good energon on them and now they are just gone.
Just gave everyone in the game 200,000 energon to compensate.

can metroplex sue you for lsot earnings?

News Credits: 6 · by **Metroplex79** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:33 pm

Tammuz wrote:
Omega Sentinel wrote:
DISCHARGE wrote: I spent good energon on them and now they are just gone.
Just gave everyone in the game 200,000 energon to compensate.

can metroplex sue you for lsot earnings?

Whoa, did I ever give you people the impression I'm like that?

Besides, I'm Canadian, frivolous lawsuits are not in my nature.

by **Tammuz** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:38 pm

Metroplex79 wrote:
Tammuz wrote:
Omega Sentinel wrote:
DISCHARGE wrote: I spent good energon on them and now they are just gone.
Just gave everyone in the game 200,000 energon to compensate.

can metroplex sue you for lsot earnings?

Whoa, did I ever give you people the impression I'm like that?

Besides, I'm Canadian, frivolous lawsuits are not in my nature.

no, but if i went by real life there'd be less jokes