The Energon Pub

I'm not at all in the "I will hate this movie and everything about it before having even seen it just because it makes me feel more 1337 and old-skool" camp like a lot of people around here...And I've liked a lot of what I've seen from the new movie line...


This and his fellow constructicons, however, are not on my happy list...And my descision to just by the non-transforming-vehicle-made Devestator set is once again reaffirmed...

i like it.

the design is pretty cool looking and the head kinda reminds me of deaths head 2 .

i wont be buying it as i dont really do the toy thing anymore unless its something that really grabs me (currently waiting for universe cyclonus to hit the shops in my area. ) but as movie toys go its nice.

i'd just like to echo the comments about how stupid non combining combiners are. what ever suit came up with that idea deserves to be sacked.

still at least im jazzed to see how this guy and the others wil look on the big screen

From behind, it looks like he's wearing a skirt

Totally Totally awesome design and one of the better looking figures for ROTF and just a bad mo'fo!!!

partholon wrote:i'd just like to echo the comments about how stupid non combining combiners are. what ever suit came up with that idea deserves to be sacked.

still at least im jazzed to see how this guy and the others wil look on the big screen

Perhaps it was partially influenced by a "Lets make all the money we can by splitting the Constructicons in two sets" thought coming from some guy high up in Hasbro (in that case that guy really deserves the boot), but has anybody in the "non combining combiners suck" group (which I might add, spontaneously appeared due to released info and pics) spent a good amount of time thinking of the 'compromising' factor?

We all know that a gimmick in the Devastator toy is his turbine suck-you-all-in maw of doom, with Mixmaster's alt-mode barrel becoming said maw, so the way I see it, how can Mixmaster's robo-bits, stuck in that chamber be massaged outwards to create a sizeable hole as well as to give the semblance of grinder belts lining Devastator's mouth without having to expand the barrel in some sort of way, should the constructicons have been made in 1 set rather than being split in two?

What about cramming the circuitry and mechanism necessary for Devastator's "eyes light up and mouth expands" gimmick all in that voyager-sized frame (admit it, Hasbro just loves finding ways to cram electronics in big TFs)? If that were to happen, surely Mixmaster would be HORRIBLY compromised in ALL 3 modes should he still maintain his price-point at the voyager class. This would take some heckuva prodigy to come by and design movieverse constructicons that have robot and combiner modes, AND pass it all off as a toy that the general fandom would find as decent at best. There is such a thing as having too many panels to move, as well as small fragile parts (Just look at Masterpiece Megatron).

Lastly, if said combiner Mixmaster was indeed released as a voyager with all features, all other Constructicons will have to be in scale with him to form Devastator, which would result in an underwhelmingly small combiner (given the movie incarnation of Devastator complete with gorilla-esque proportions). The only way to fix this in order to make a big Devastator(as well as to provide more space for all mechanisms in current size class) is to have all constructicons increase up 1 size-class, voyager to supreme and deluxe to voyager, which as a result all 6 Constructicons would be extremely expensive for both Hasbro to produce and collectors/parents to buy.

So yes, that's my thoughts that it's better to have two sets of Constructicons with minimized compromise, instead of scenarios of 'shambling kibble-strewn-everywhere-mess that almost everybody would surely boycott upon first sight' or 'an excellent-looking and massive combiner whose total price tag on all component members would scare off parents whose kids make up the majority of Hasbro's profits, not fans, unfortunately'. To put it optimistically, people who buy both sets wouldn't be torn between posing the group as Devastator or as all 6 seperated constructicons, not when they have both of them already!

And yes, I myself can't wait to see the constructicons in action on the silver screen as well!

he looks pretty cool most of the kibble is on ball joints so I can just remove it.

Warbreaker wrote:

partholon wrote:i'd just like to echo the comments about how stupid non combining combiners are. what ever suit came up with that idea deserves to be sacked.

still at least im jazzed to see how this guy and the others wil look on the big screen

Perhaps it was partially influenced by a "Lets make all the money we can by splitting the Constructicons in two sets" thought coming from some guy high up in Hasbro (in that case that guy really deserves the boot), but has anybody in the "non combining combiners suck" group (which I might add, spontaneously appeared due to released info and pics) spent a good amount of time thinking of the 'compromising' factor?

We all know that a gimmick in the Devastator toy is his turbine suck-you-all-in maw of doom, with Mixmaster's alt-mode barrel becoming said maw, so the way I see it, how can Mixmaster's robo-bits, stuck in that chamber be massaged outwards to create a sizeable hole as well as to give the semblance of grinder belts lining Devastator's mouth without having to expand the barrel in some sort of way, should the constructicons have been made in 1 set rather than being split in two?

What about cramming the circuitry and mechanism necessary for Devastator's "eyes light up and mouth expands" gimmick all in that voyager-sized frame (admit it, Hasbro just loves finding ways to cram electronics in big TFs)? If that were to happen, surely Mixmaster would be HORRIBLY compromised in ALL 3 modes should he still maintain his price-point at the voyager class. This would take some heckuva prodigy to come by and design movieverse constructicons that have robot and combiner modes, AND pass it all off as a toy that the general fandom would find as decent at best. There is such a thing as having too many panels to move, as well as small fragile parts (Just look at Masterpiece Megatron).

Lastly, if said combiner Mixmaster was indeed released as a voyager with all features, all other Constructicons will have to be in scale with him to form Devastator, which would result in an underwhelmingly small combiner (given the movie incarnation of Devastator complete with gorilla-esque proportions). The only way to fix this in order to make a big Devastator(as well as to provide more space for all mechanisms in current size class) is to have all constructicons increase up 1 size-class, voyager to supreme and deluxe to voyager, which as a result all 6 Constructicons would be extremely expensive for both Hasbro to produce and collectors/parents to buy.

So yes, that's my thoughts that it's better to have two sets of Constructicons with minimized compromise, instead of scenarios of 'shambling kibble-strewn-everywhere-mess that almost everybody would surely boycott upon first sight' or 'an excellent-looking and massive combiner whose total price tag on all component members would scare off parents whose kids make up the majority of Hasbro's profits, not fans, unfortunately'. To put it optimistically, people who buy both sets wouldn't be torn between posing the group as Devastator or as all 6 seperated constructicons, not when they have both of them already!

And yes, I myself can't wait to see the constructicons in action on the silver screen as well!

That took a lot of explaination to get around why Hasbro isn't making the Devastator toy that we all want.

I think I've been in this hobby too long to settle for "second best" now.

Pass.

I CAN'T STAND IT! First 100 buck must-get Devastator, then leader Prime, Megs, and Jetfire, then Sideswipe, Soundwave, new Starscream, the yellow constructicon, that blue bike, now this. I can't afford this movie!

Anyways, nice figure, looks evil and huge, that's perfect. Looks kinda unsturdy though, like he'll fall over a lot in a stop motion.

To the dude who wrote a four page letter I agree with your point about Hasbro just wanting to make more money. However, I can offer a reasoning for 2 different sets of constructicons. The voyager/Deluxe set is for scale detail of the individual robots. The combiner set is focused more on the detail of Devastator. To build a good Devastator that wont fall apart like my G1 toy does, certain details in the individual robots must be compromised to make Devastator better as a whole. Any toy that has everything would cost like 500 bucks or higher and they are trying to market this toy so that parents will actually buy it for their kids. My friend returned an 80 dollar ultimate Bumblebee cause it was too complex for her 7 year old son to transform. And the kid ain't dumb ! Somewhere down the line Hasbro has to meet both collecters and kids at the halfway. The "Devastator everybody wants" would cost them more to make then they would make back in profit.

And Im not sticking up for Hasbro cause they are cheap. Im very anti-Henkei because how does a new paint scheme or different bolt on seeker wings justify a 40 dollar price increase ???

Peace

Warbreaker wrote:has anybody in the "non combining combiners suck" group (which I might add, spontaneously appeared due to released info and pics) spent a good amount of time thinking of the 'compromising' factor?

QFT.

It seems like a large number of people think these things are made using magic, and should, like their onscreen counterparts, not be beholden to the laws of mass conservation or the concept of basic structural integrity.

If Hasbro made a Devastator toy at the size people want, with components that transform into robots as well as vehicles, either the gestalt would crumble under its own weight like a jellyfish on land, the individual components would have to have the articulation of spychangers, or the individual components would have so many tight joints and locking mechanisms that no one could transform them without breaking them.

Sure, I could see such a figure made by the guys who design the Masterpiece figures and Alternators, which in my experience tend to be fragile and feature parts that are either too tight, too loose (to the point of falling off), or require surgical precision in lining up to properly transform, but such a toy wouldn't be well suited for the kids they're marketing too.

Anyway, stepping off the soap-box, thinking about the big caboose of a truck cab on his back side made me think of Beast Wars Inferno. Is that weird or can other people see it too?

How could anyone like this? It's fugly, and its colors suck.

The color in alt. mode is awsome, his bot colors match every 3rd home in every suburb in North America. (even the red tone since everyone seems to be using that for front doors)
His robot mode design, however, makes up for the bad color choice.

Megatron_wolf, I totally agree about the Ramulus comparison, especially aftering seeing the red on the legs and the general design of the lower torso. The claws on the arm are a bit over-exagerated compared to Ramulus', but the arm design is pretty similar, too.

This makes 3 "must haves" for me from the movie line. I'm just hoping that the quality on Smokescreen was a fluke cause so far this guys alt. mode paint job has looked pretty awsome. I'm praying that's the case for the rest of the line.

I encourage people to avoid being apologists for this Constructicon issue.

If you like the toys, genuinely like them, and are happy to buy two different sets, then this post isn’t directed towards you.

If the idea that combiners should have a bot, alt, and gestalt mode aspect to their toys is rattling around in your head and you feel bad that you will have to buy two sets in order to get what once would have been one set, then don’t hold back.

I think the situation is absurd. If I learned anything from the BotCon seeker debate, it’s that Hasbro’s explanations of things ALWAYS have a ‘but…’ clause to them.

There’s no good reason to not have engineered a 3 mode combiner. They’ve managed to do it for years. While the G1 combiners were simplistic, Beast Wars and RiD both had complex combiners with significant size to them.

Now we have big budget, Hollywood backing, and more attention/capital than ever…and we can’t have a well-engineered three-mode combiner?

‘It’s too hard and the engineering won’t work’

…and we’ll never get a Soundwave reissue
…and Classics is a dead line
…and we’ll never see other releases of BotCon toys
…and running changes will correct Armada HotShot, Universe Ironhide, etc…

Counterpunch wrote:‘It’s too hard and the engineering won’t work’

…and we’ll never get a Soundwave reissue
…and Classics is a dead line
…and we’ll never see other releases of BotCon toys
…and running changes will correct Armada HotShot, Universe Ironhide, etc…

There's a huge difference between reversing corporate financial decisions and overcoming the realistic limitations binding Hasbro's engineers.

As the man said:

"I cannot break the laws of physics captain!"

If you shrank it down to the size of RID Landfill it might work, as the decreased mass would resolve most of the problems, but then many people would be upset that he was the same size as Optimus.

Caelus wrote:There's a huge difference between reversing corporate financial decisions and overcoming the realistic limitations binding Hasbro's engineers.

As the man said:

"I cannot break the laws of physics captain!"

If you shrank it down to the size of RID Landfill it might work, as the decreased mass would resolve most of the problems, but then many people would be upset that he was the same size as Optimus.

I don't believe there is enough plastic involved in 2 voyagers and 4 deluxe toys that the engineering can not be overcome.

I really don't.

It's not like movie toys are anywhere near as big as deluxes from Armada or Cybertron.

G1 Predaking is a huge toy with significant weight (die-cast metal) to it. Though the combination scheme is simple, there are no structural issues with the limbs falling off or with Razorclaw breaking down over time.

I just don't believe Hasbro when they make claims about being unable to produce a three-mode combiner. I'm sure they have their reasons for not doing it, but I won't apologize for them for not doing it.

Counterpunch wrote:I don't believe there is enough plastic involved in 2 voyagers and 4 deluxe toys that the engineering can not be overcome.

That's actually the problem. Too much mass.

G1 Predaking is a huge toy with significant weight (die-cast metal) to it. Though the combination scheme is simple, there are no structural issues with the limbs falling off or with Razorclaw breaking down over time.

That's what I was saying about Spymaster-simplicity. I'm confident you could make a combiner that was a couple feet tall, with transforming components, if you sacrificed the articulation of the individual components to make them more sturdy in their limb-forms, especially the legs and torso.

I guess if you lik/don't mind the brickishness of the old G1 toys that's fine, but it doesn't really meet the standards of modern Transformers.

i'm sure he'll look cool onscreen, but i don't really like this toy.

Counterpunch wrote:There’s no good reason to not have engineered a 3 mode combiner. They’ve managed to do it for years. While the G1 combiners were simplistic, Beast Wars and RiD both had complex combiners with significant size to them.

Now we have big budget, Hollywood backing, and more attention/capital than ever…and we can’t have a well-engineered three-mode combiner?

‘It’s too hard and the engineering won’t work’

…and we’ll never get a Soundwave reissue
…and Classics is a dead line
…and we’ll never see other releases of BotCon toys
…and running changes will correct Armada HotShot, Universe Ironhide, etc…

Especially when the flippin' bot modes for the non-combining constructicons SUCK SO BAD and have awkward, unrealistic, kibbletastic bodies! It's not like these things are geniusly engineered, full of articulation, and insanely limited with their options to keep them "realistic" and the bot modes would just be way too compromised. Yeah...wouldn't wanna compromise the retarded unicycle or have even more kibble hanging off the cement truck backpack! That it woulda been too difficult to pull off or too cost prohibitive is the biggest load…

Technically weird wrote:How could anyone like this? It's fugly, and its colors suck.

Well, I like it because it reminds me of '07 Bonecrusher who happened to be a surprisingly good toy himself despite his shortcomings (scale and kibble). What's more, his alt-more is so amazingly detailed and realistic, with all the parts one would expect to find on a normal cement truck molded on and almost no prescence of robo-kibble except for the underside(then again, that can be said for most of the entire movie line). Oh, and I think his bright bot-colour scheme's a nice contrast compared to his predominantly dark alt-mode. If there's something I don't like about him, it's that he's rather small for a voyager(alt-mode's slightly smaller than Ironhide's alt-mode). To each, his own!

NotEnoughKibble wrote:Especially when the flippin' bot modes for the non-combining constructicons SUCK SO BAD and have awkward, unrealistic, kibbletastic bodies!

Awkward, unrealistic bodies? As if in "Alien Robot" awkward, unrealistic bodies? Kibbletastic? Yes, you're right about that but it's nothing a bit of pulling apart won't fix

NotEnoughKibble wrote:It's not like these things are geniusly engineered, full of articulation, and insanely limited with their options to keep them "realistic" and the bot modes would just be way too compromised.

Erm... look carefully at the pictures of Mixmaster, and tell me if he doesn't seem to be 'full of articulation' If one of his mechalive gimmicks involves having his BFG flip up his back and atop his head, I'd say he's already genuisly (sic) engineered!

NotEnoughKibble wrote:Yeah...wouldn't wanna compromise the retarded unicycle or have even more kibble hanging off the cement truck backpack! That it woulda been too difficult to pull off or too cost prohibitive is the biggest load…

Sure, sure, there's always room for improvement what with that big seemingly untransformable truck cab hanging off Mixmaster's rear. Perhaps Demolishor and Chromia could have better body designs with a stabilizing pair of legs, but you have to think deeper than just 'too difficult' and 'too cost-prohibitive', as there are countless more factors pitching in on the end-result. Initially, I too thought that Demolishor was terrible but after all the knee-jerk dislike subsided I gave it a bit of a serious thought, coupled with the 'Hey, nothing's perfect' belief I have, I can say I'd be happy to snatch him up wherever I see him now.

P.S. I think it's rather ironic that somebody called NotEnoughKibble complains of the figures having too much kibble

Warbreaker wrote:look carefully at the pictures of Mixmaster, and tell me if he doesn't seem to be 'full of articulation'

Yeah, I wish I had that many joints in my arms.

if it werent for those retardedly placed tan paint apps i'd love it.

Warbreaker, you’ve apparently missed the point completely. The point was that we’re not exactly talking about finding a way to combine the Masterpiece figures here. We’re talking about a combiner with distinguishable construction vehicle limbs (aka that don’t look to require a whole lot of altering to form its corresponding body part) and crappy individual bot modes. In other words you ALREADY had built in compromises to make it doable! And that they’re unrealistic (sorry, without standard bodies would have better stated my intent,) full of kibble, and without standard limb articulation weren’t necessarily the reasons the individual bot modes suck so bad (though in some case it surely contributed!) but rather were more examples as to why they had A LOT of wiggle room to make it work. Hope that’s more clear this time…

Caelus wrote:

Warbreaker wrote:look carefully at the pictures of Mixmaster, and tell me if he doesn't seem to be 'full of articulation'

Yeah, I wish I had that many joints in my arms.

Thanks for that. Now you got me thinking back to ex-girlfriends. especially 1 in particular...

Anywho, after reading all of your guys' debates and after doing some doodling, I'm inclined to say that articulation of the individual units would have to be lost in order to make combining of the larger toy practical. Notice I did not say possible since I believe that it is doable with the present articulation. I also firmly believe that the combined toy would be floppy, sloppy and an irritating pain in the butt to transform and/or display and that children especially would find it frustarting and likely break the "kibble" and/or smaller robots limbs inside of a day. The RID Constructicons were irritating enough to deal with and keep together and I feel that the Movie versions would be even more so. Reverting to G1 Predaking style would be the best way to go and I feel that maybe 5 Voyager and a Leader class would have been the only way they could have pulled it off and kept decent articulation on the larger, combined figure.
It sucks for us collectors but if you think about it from Hasbros point of view, the only way they were going to be able to keep us, kids and their parents happy (more or less) was to give us the articulation and the kids a non-transforming, freaking Megazord.

NotEnoughKibble wrote:Warbreaker, you’ve apparently missed the point completely. The point was that we’re not exactly talking about finding a way to combine the Masterpiece figures here. We’re talking about a combiner with distinguishable construction vehicle limbs (aka that don’t look to require a whole lot of altering to form its corresponding body part) and crappy individual bot modes. In other words you ALREADY had built in compromises to make it doable! And that they’re unrealistic (sorry, without standard bodies would have better stated my intent,) full of kibble, and without standard limb articulation weren’t necessarily the reasons the individual bot modes suck so bad (though in some case it surely contributed!) but rather were more examples as to why they had A LOT of wiggle room to make it work. Hope that’s more clear this time…

Yeah, I get what you mean. I wouldn't be so sure about the 'wiggle room' idea you've proposed, it's a good thought along with the already-built-in-compromises point, but looking at photos for any period of time just won't do the job completely, and it's not as if we've handled any of the 6 constructicons well enough (or at all, for that matter) to see how they could have had extra engineering here and there to enable turning into gestalt limbs. The way I see it, some aspects of each bot-mode would have to be compromised even further than what they are right now to enable combining i.e. Mix loses his BFG and most of his arm mass in the cement barrel for him to become a barely-okay Devastator head. That's...pretty much the gist of my thoughts on it.

This debate wouldn't have existed if the Constructicons were just a subfaction and never combined, like the Dinobots, right?