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Well, Grindor is a full-time Warrior with combat-oriented design, Optimus was builded to be a scientist. Grindor is bigger, physically stronger, better armored and have better weapons. Grindor don't need any kind of Upregade to fly. I really don't se much of superiority here. Plot armor and beign director's favorite aside.Rodimus Prime wrote:It's 1 thing to be taken out by a superior enemy face-to-faceRhA wrote:Let's not forget Grindor. Hooks tore his face apart, man.
Hooks.
Where in any of the movies is it stated that Optimus was built to be a scientist?TurboMMaster wrote:Well, Grindor is a full-time Warrior with combat-oriented design, Optimus was builded to be a scientist.
He might be bigger, but you're wrong on the other counts. Optimus overpowered him in a fight, so he's not physically stronger. Optimus also defeated him in hand-to-hand combat and killed him using his weapons. If Grindor had better armor and weapons, he would have been able to fend off Optimus's attacks and defeat him in hand-to-hand combat. But he lost, because his armor and weaponry, as well as his fighting skills, were inferior.Grindor is bigger, physically stronger, better armored and have better weapons.
Even with the innate ability to fly, Grindor still couldn't make that advantage work for him in the fight, making him inferior to Optimus even more than the reasons I listed above. So if you don't see Optimus's superiority, you're either in denial or blinded by hatred for Bay.Grindor don't need any kind of Upgrade to fly. I really don't see much of superiority here.
It was stated in Movie Prequels, as I recall, Alliance. When Megatron was defending planet and Allspark from aliens, Optimus was leading a team analysing The Fallen's obelisk. Also, Megatron's despise for Optimus in First Movie suggest that Optimus wasn't best tactician nor fighter during Cybertronian period of war.Rodimus Prime wrote:Where in any of the movies is it stated that Optimus was built to be a scientist?
He lost because he was a irrevelant decoy character. Fans were complaining that Prime was to weak in first movie. So they have created Blackout's clone A.K.A Grindor just ot Prime could punch him few times. However, Michael Bay decided that Optimus have to kill him (Grindor death wasn't part of original script since he survived in Comic and as I heard Novel). And since Bay never really cared about details, it was done the easiest way possible.But he lost, because his armor and weaponry, as well as his fighting skills, were inferior.
So it wasn't in the movies.TurboMMaster wrote:It was stated in Movie Prequels, as I recall, Alliance. When Megatron was defending planet and Allspark from aliens, Optimus was leading a team analyzing The Fallen's obelisk.Rodimus Prime wrote:Where in any of the movies is it stated that Optimus was built to be a scientist?
That's just your personal interpretation.Also, Megatron's despise for Optimus in First Movie suggest that Optimus wasn't best tactician nor fighter during Cybertronian period of war.
In the final cut of the movie he was killed. That's all that matters. He was killed in battle by a superior fighter.He lost because he was a irrelevant decoy character. Fans were complaining that Prime was too weak in first movie. So they have created Blackout's clone A.K.A Grindor just so Prime could punch him few times. However, Michael Bay decided that Optimus have to kill him (Grindor death wasn't part of original script since he survived in Comic and as I heard Novel). And since Bay never really cared about details, it was done the easiest way possible.But he lost, because his armor and weaponry, as well as his fighting skills, were inferior.
Killing The Fallen in RoTF wasn't illogical. Killing Demolisher was, as was killing Grindor. He was in a 3-on-1 fight for his life, eliminating the enemy was tactically logical. In DoTM, maybe murdering Sentinel was overkill, but killing Megatron needed to be done. Turns out, it didn't even work.However, Grindor isn't alone. In fact, it's hard to find a single Prime kill scene in ROTF and DOTM that wasn't forced and illogical.
So you're saying that in AoE the reason the Cons weren't Cybertronian was because that would make it easier to accept Optimus being a ruthless killer? As long as he is killing man-made mechanical beings instead of Cybertronians?In AOE Ehren Kruger decided to explain this by turning Cons into man-made mindless drones.
Yeah, and? It still offical prequels, Hasbro never stated it to be non-canon. So Prime's civilan origin is of few things in Bayverse Timeline that was never denied in any way. It's common for both Movies, video games and comic boooks alike.Rodimus Prime wrote:So it wasn't in the movies.
Some "personal interpreatations" are considered canon by fans, even when they are contradictionary to the movie itself (Like this "Prime was holding back in Mission City" nonsense or theory that only a Prime can kill Optimus)That's just your personal interpretation.
Medicore writing beats ad directing. When something in adaptation is more consistent than mainstream, it can be used as argument against mainstream.In the final cut of the movie he was killed. That's all that matters.
It was, because The Fallen wasn't using his abilities like teleportation. He could have beign killed by falling meteor and it wouldn't change movie in any way.Killing The Fallen in RoTF wasn't illogical.
I'm not questioning Prime "you can kill if it's necessary mentality" only his physical ability to do so. He was simply physically to weak and to inexperienced to make any of this kills belivable. Can you imagine Quentin Tarantino's movie with Rowan Atkison as main character? Until AOE, Bayverse was this level bad.Killing Demolisher was, as was killing Grindor. He was in a 3-on-1 fight for his life, eliminating the enemy was tactically logical. In DoTM, maybe murdering Sentinel was overkill, but killing Megatron needed to be done.
That's not canon, that's fanon.TurboMMaster wrote:Some "personal interpretations" are considered canon by fans
According to who?When something in adaptation is more consistent than mainstream, it can be used as argument against mainstream.
That's not what I meant. It was logical for Optimus to kill the Fallen because he was threatening Earth and its entire population with the Sun Harvester.It was, because The Fallen wasn't using his abilities like teleportation. He could have been killed by falling meteor and it wouldn't change movie in any way.Killing The Fallen in RoTF wasn't illogical.
How so? He was big enough, fast enough, smart enough and was armed enough. Where do you get this idea that Optimus was weak in the Bay films? Morally, maybe, but not physically.I'm not questioning Prime "you can kill if it's necessary mentality" only his physical ability to do so. He was simply physically to weak and to inexperienced to make any of this kills believable.
Yes, I can. If anyone can turn Mr. Bean into a total badass, it's Tarantino. Or, it used to be. Seems like he's been losing his mojo recently. The Hateful 8 and Inglorious Basterds were both worthless crap. Django was pretty good, but it wasn't an original idea.Can you imagine Quentin Tarantino's movie with Rowan Atkinson as main character?
I said earlier that killing Sentinel may have been overkill, but now that I think about it, it was exactly what Sentinel deserved. He shot Ironhide in the back and then pretty much executed him. What goes around comes around.william-james88 wrote:I love the way Optimus takes out Grindor in ROTF. The death that shocked me most though was Sentinel Prime. I didn't expect Optimus to be that cold.
Rodimus Prime wrote:I said earlier that killing Sentinel may have been overkill, but now that I think about it, it was exactly what Sentinel deserved. He shot Ironhide in the back and then pretty much executed him. What goes around comes around.william-james88 wrote:I love the way Optimus takes out Grindor in ROTF. The death that shocked me most though was Sentinel Prime. I didn't expect Optimus to be that cold.
Considering that is estabilished long ago that Humans in Bayverse always were a stronger side of this alliance, and Lockdown almost killed Optimus, it's very unlikely.I wonder if Ratchet had just started off guns blazing against cemetary wind, would he have escaped? He only has his gun for a few seconds when he's already wounded, and he does quite a bit of damage. And it can't be that hard to evade Lockdown, Prime is able to do it after being shot to a pulp
Henry921 wrote:Ratchet. Defiant to the end, and absolutely brutal to watch.
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