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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I did like how they aged Spike to show time passing within the series.

They kinda had to since it would've been weird to for him to look, sound, and act the same after a 20-year time skip.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It's a shame we never got to see where the Transformers would be by the time Daniel was an adult.

In Western fiction, at least.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It's a shame we never got to see where the Transformers would be by the time Daniel was an adult.

In Western fiction, at least.

After a quick look on the Wiki..


Indeed!

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:It's a shame we never got to see where the Transformers would be by the time Daniel was an adult.

In Western fiction, at least.

After a quick look on the Wiki..


Indeed!

All except for this, but nobody liked that:

G2?

I mean I did write a little G1 myself once upon a time and even included Daniel. As plot progression is my thing.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:G2?

Issue #1 of Transformers: The Wreckers, from 2001.

People hated it.

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:G2?

Issue #1 of Transformers: The Wreckers, from 2001.

People hated it.

Another look to the Wiki..


I can see why that one was hated...

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:G2?

Issue #1 of Transformers: The Wreckers, from 2001.

People hated it.

Another look to the Wiki..


I can see why that one was hated...

I personally liked the rest of the Beast Machines-set story that followed after that G1-set flashback, but said flashback only existed to turn Arcee angsty and give her a bad attitude when she later showed up in her spider form.

(also, that story's Wiki article is in serious need of an overhaul; been on my to-do list for years, but keep putting it off )

There is such a thing as too many characters though.
You know The Walking Dead comic and even Game of Thrones might be infamous for culling their casts. But they at least bothered to show those killed as characters first.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:There is such a thing as too many characters though.
You know The Walking Dead comic and even Game of Thrones might be infamous for culling their casts. But they at least bothered to show those killed as characters first.

At the very least, the finale written years later by different writers is wonderful.

ZeroWolf wrote:The only time evil will truly win is part one of a duology, a part 2 of s trilogy, on in Star Wars example parts 3 and 5 (in a certain point of view you can chalk the entire prequel trilogy as a bad guy win).

Also Aronjlove, Spider Man is only Peter Parker..
When he's not Miles Morales (or who ever the guy from the live action Japanese show was)

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Going back to the Spider-Man comparison. The main difference being that Spider-Man isn't hard rebooted every 3-5 years. Plus, there has been actual plot progression for many years. In fact the one time Spider-Man's status quo was seriously reset, One More Day, it was universally reviled. Because unlike those in charge at the time, the fans didn't want to stick their heads in the sand and relive 60's Spider-Man forever. Which sounds oddly familiar

In hindsight, I probably should have used Superman instead of Spider-Man for this analogy as he has been hard rebooted several times and while there have been a few Superboys, they only become Superman in alternate futures.

But, at the same time, maybe Spider-Man was a perfect analogy because you both showed how Spider-Man has evolved, he has had growth and change of his own and he has a legacy that other characters have filled, such as Mile Morales or any of the alternate Spider-Men like the anime ones.

Now I want Into the Spider-Verse but with a bunch of Cliffjumpers. Maybe this way he won't die in the first season. Or every season a different Cliffjumper dies.

ZeroWolf wrote:The only time evil will truly win is part one of a duology, a part 2 of s trilogy, on in Star Wars example parts 3 and 5 (in a certain point of view you can chalk the entire prequel trilogy as a bad guy win).

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Anyway, in spite of the characterisation misfires, Beast Machines was the last time in a main series the villain was allowed to win.

There was... one time, that the bad guys beat the good guys, in an ordinary episode.

Beast Wars season 1 episode 11, "The Probe". The Maximals made a plan of their own in that episode, and Megatron ruined it. He won, they lost.

And now that I think about it, the Maximals lost a second time in the very next episode, "Victory".

The Preds faked their own demise, successfully tricking the Maximals into thinking they were destroyed. The Maximals looted the Preds' ship for tech to make the Axalon fly again, and nearly left the planet to return to Cybertron... until Megatron ruined that plan too, forcing the Maximals to remain stranded. They lost, again.

But, Beast Machines was victory to a far greater extent than winning an episode's skirmish. Megatron conquered Cybertron. On his own. With an army under his command so vast, he could not be overcome. A victory or two against a handful of Vehicon drones was ultimately meaningless. Because the enemy numbers realistically made such loses immaterial.

aronjlove wrote:But, at the same time, maybe Spider-Man was a perfect analogy because you both showed how Spider-Man has evolved, he has had growth and change of his own and he has a legacy that other characters have filled, such as Mile Morales or any of the alternate Spider-Men like the anime ones.

Which is the whole point. Given Transformers is no longer allowed to do those things...

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:But, Beast Machines was victory to a far greater extent than winning an episode's skirmish. Megatron conquered Cybertron. On his own. With an army under his command so vast, he could not be overcome. A victory or two against a handful of Vehicon drones was ultimately meaningless. Because the enemy numbers realistically made such loses immaterial.

I didn't say that Beast Machines didn't count. You guys were saying that the bad guys aren't ever allowed to win outside of exceptional circumstances that are ultimately thwarted by the good guys in the long run (e.g. multi-part cliffhangers and series beginnings), so I wanted to add in two cases of the bad guys being allowed to actually win in normal circumstances that never got undone. Two cases in which Megatron actually successfully foiled the Maximals' plans.

Oh I meant "big" wins. As in Plot changing wins. The kind that The Agenda pt 3 would have been if they didn't backpeddle.
One of the great missed opportunities of Sunbow is Not Showing both times Megatron gained control of Cybertron. Something that has been replicated in Siege.

Both times in Sunbow? I assumed the stuff at the beginning was just because the Autobots (apart from a small few) had effectively left Cybertron, leaving that small few behind to become saboteurs.

That's the thing. Wherein both times it was offscreen. So the details were always sketchy.

Switching topics just a bit. I want to talk about Astrotrain for a bit, in this series. I see comments online talking about how "Massive" he is. I've watched the entire series through twice, and am going through a 3rd watch now. I could be wrong, but Astrotrain was in exactly two shots of the last episode. Had no dialogue and IIRC wasn't in scene with anything else that could really be compared to scalewise. In fact to me he looked rather haphazardly slapped in at the last second so it could just be said "Astrotrain was in the show". He didn't interact with anything, and very literally just filled space. I'm more than willing to admit if I am wrong, just trying to understand where this idea is coming from, unless I just totaly missed it.

o.supreme wrote:Switching topics just a bit. I want to talk about Astrotrain for a bit, in this series. I see comments online talking about how "Massive" he is. I've watched the entire series through twice, and am going through a 3rd watch now. I could be wrong, but Astrotrain was in exactly two shots of the last episode. Had no dialogue and IIRC wasn't in scene with anything else that could really be compared to scalewise. In fact to me he looked rather haphazardly slapped in at the last second so it could just be said "Astrotrain was in the show". He didn't interact with anything, and very literally just filled space. I'm more than willing to admit if I am wrong, just trying to understand where this idea is coming from, unless I just totaly missed it.

Is it ironic that Astrotrain his massive in contrast to his toy's size?

o.supreme wrote:Switching topics just a bit. I want to talk about Astrotrain for a bit, in this series. I see comments online talking about how "Massive" he is. I've watched the entire series through twice, and am going through a 3rd watch now. I could be wrong, but Astrotrain was in exactly two shots of the last episode. Had no dialogue and IIRC wasn't in scene with anything else that could really be compared to scalewise. In fact to me he looked rather haphazardly slapped in at the last second so it could just be said "Astrotrain was in the show". He didn't interact with anything, and very literally just filled space. I'm more than willing to admit if I am wrong, just trying to understand where this idea is coming from, unless I just totaly missed it.

The cinematography presented him from low angles looking upward to see him, giving the impression of him being taller than the average bot.

Sabrblade wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Switching topics just a bit. I want to talk about Astrotrain for a bit, in this series. I see comments online talking about how "Massive" he is. I've watched the entire series through twice, and am going through a 3rd watch now. I could be wrong, but Astrotrain was in exactly two shots of the last episode. Had no dialogue and IIRC wasn't in scene with anything else that could really be compared to scalewise. In fact to me he looked rather haphazardly slapped in at the last second so it could just be said "Astrotrain was in the show". He didn't interact with anything, and very literally just filled space. I'm more than willing to admit if I am wrong, just trying to understand where this idea is coming from, unless I just totaly missed it.

The cinematography presented him from low angles looking upward to see him, giving the impression of him being taller than the average bot.

Didn't he totally step on and crush a Cog repaint too? Pretty sure he did

Yeah from what I was able to see Astrotrain was like Combiner size for some reason, absolutely bigger then Jetfire for sure.

Astrotrain's appearance was so damn odd, he gets a brief menacing presence like he's going to be some big deal but does literally nothing and disappears.

This and Moonracer's appearance were the most bamboozling things in the show for me.

Astrotrain just came across to me as blatant last minute product placement. It was Sixshot's scene in The Rebirth, all over again.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Astrotrain just came across to me as blatant last minute product placement. It was Sixshot's scene in The Rebirth, all over again.

Probably, they do have the cad files and all right?

That shot of the mercenaries.... geez. conehead tetrajets, and straight repaints instead of new heads at least.

I think I'm just gonna read the TFwiki summaries on this one