The Energon Pub

Rated X wrote:Same pinkish-red color and as the original the arms are supposed to be grey. Wal-Mart version is G1 accurate. Everybody who wasted their money on the Henkei version please stop knitpicking and hating. And rumor has it these Henkei "imports" are selling for the same prices on the streets of Japan, making the price not an "import price", just hihghway robbery

I admit, had I known that they were going to release a G1 accurate colour scheme I would never have bought either Classics or Henkei Powerglide. At least I can make myself feel a little better in my money wastage, in that the combined cost of my Classics and Henkei Powerglides (now frankensteined) bought while overseas was still less than the cost to buy Classics Powerglide on the shelf here in NZ.

zodconvoy wrote:As cool as the A-10 Thunderbolt is they could've updated him to a Predator reconnaissance drone and kept him in scale. As it stands, I have the first Universe release of the mold and no desire to spend any more money on it.

Powerglide as a Predator? That is an AWESOME idea, I am gutted I did not think of it! Scratch that, I am gutted Hastak did not think of it!

Hey Counterpunch:

I got the upmost respect for you because I seen the video of your collection. Dont know your source of income but you get much credit for owning every figure in existance. But I gotta ask you a question buddy...Ever been to a Dollar general or 99 cents store ???

Where do you think all that junk comes from ??? Made in Taiwan (China) where there is no juristiction on copyright laws and no labor laws. All this stuff gets "imported" and sold for pennies in the USA so spare me the "Import costs" excuse. Its not the price to ship...Its just plain greed. Im from Miami where the embargo drives the price of smuggled Cuban cigars up 10 times higher than the price of Dominican cigars. Why ??? Because they can. Shipping and handling covers all company expenses. They are just pulling your leg about "import costs." Sugarcoating the truth at its finest.

I always keep it real so here is the pic from my camera to prove the wal-mart version and the G1 version are the same color. I wouldnt cast such an opinion without actually owning both figures. And you already know I dont own the Henkei version because Im the advocate for change on "Import" prices.

Much respect and I admire youre collection....

Rated X

I picked up Powerglide and Skyfall last night. I really like them both. I took a look at Ryan's gallery of Henkei Powerglide. It definitely is a different red. I think both look really good. I think the Universe is more G1 accurate which is a surprise for a Hasbro release. Skyfall rocks. I love the Silverbolt mode. I need to get some Cobra stickers from Reprolabels so I can make him a Night Raven:-) I wouldn't mind them coming out with a blue repaint of Powerglide either. Put some Cobra stickers on him and you have a Rattler.

Rated X wrote:Hey Counterpunch:

I got the upmost respect for you because I seen the video of your collection. Dont know your source of income but you get much credit for owning every figure in existance. But I gotta ask you a question buddy...Ever been to a Dollar general or 99 cents store ???

Where do you think all that junk comes from ??? Made in Taiwan (China) where there is no juristiction on copyright laws and no labor laws. All this stuff gets "imported" and sold for pennies in the USA so spare me the "Import costs" excuse. Its not the price to ship...Its just plain greed. Im from Miami where the embargo drives the price of smuggled Cuban cigars up 10 times higher than the price of Dominican cigars. Why ??? Because they can. Shipping and handling covers all company expenses. They are just pulling your leg about "import costs." Sugarcoating the truth at its finest.

I always keep it real so here is the pic from my camera to prove the wal-mart version and the G1 version are the same color. I wouldnt cast such an opinion without actually owning both figures. And you already know I dont own the Henkei version because Im the advocate for change on "Import" prices.

Much respect and I admire youre collection....

Rated X

Dude, it's all good. There's two issues here, the first being that I absolutely hate the red plastic Hasbro has been using. Universe Ratchet, Universe Ironhide, Universe Inferno...and others. I know you don't collect the Japanese versions, but if you could see them side by side, you'd be really annoyed at the color red plastics the US market has been getting. It has to be a choice too because Universe Blades and Sideswipe were fine. If the Universe Powerglide works for you, cool. For me, having the Universe and Henkei versions together, I could not in good faith pick the former.

The second issue in regards to import prices is different from the kind of stuff you find in Dollar General. Basically, if you have someone like BBTS selling Japanese toys, they have cost + import cost + their margin. That's why the price get so high so quickly. I think it's an entirely different issue than in regards to merchandise which is MASS produced.

I'd be all for the option of getting import toys cheaper. So, I'm with you on that.

Anyway, no hard feelings. I appreciate the thought out response.

Counterpunch wrote:Universe Inferno

Did you have problems with Inferno? Mine is a really solid plastic with a rich burgundy color. It's nothing like the cheap, thin, clown-shoe red plastic on Ironhide.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:Universe Inferno

Did you have problems with Inferno? Mine is a really solid plastic with a rich burgundy color. It's nothing like the cheap, thin, clown-shoe red plastic on Ironhide.

I think Counterpunch is referring to Universe Inferno's Burgundy verses Henkei Inferno's (much more fire-truck-ish) Candy-Apple red. The Henkei version is a lot nicer, in my opinion just not nice enough to justify the extra cost. (If I liked the mould more I would have opened my wallet wider and gotten the Henkei version). I regret not getting the Henkei Hound for the same reason, but the difference in price was the deciding factor sadly. The only times I have forked out for the nicer Henkei colour schemes are Megatron, Powerglide, Dinobot, Cyclonus, and the Seekers (minus Dirge and Skywarp that I could not afford).

I guess I have to see a Japenese version up close to appreciate the difference. And honestly I never have. I must admit though most Hasbro red figures could use a little more gloss. As far as the import issue, If the cost is true and not fabricated, I honestly wonder why companies arent shipping them into the USA in the same fashion that they are shipping in other collectibles. Lets use Jada "Dub City" Diecast model cars as an example which are made in China. Is there really a division of government saying "let the cars go, but red flag all transformers for import costs ?" The cars (also collectibles) always seem to find their way from USA Store shelves for under 20 bucks. What is the difference ??? One dude on this site once stated that if you visit Japan, you will pay the same amount in Yen at a toy store as you would through mail order because thats just the set price the company charges and they arent marketing them as "kids toys" like in the USA. Anyone know if this is true ???

Rated X wrote:I guess I have to see a Japenese version up close to appreciate the difference. And honestly I never have. I must admit though most Hasbro red figures could use a little more gloss. As far as the import issue, If the cost is true and not fabricated, I honestly wonder why companies arent shipping them into the USA in the same fashion that they are shipping in other collectibles. Lets use Jada "Dub City" Diecast model cars as an example which are made in China. Is there really a division of government saying "let the cars go, but red flag all transformers for import costs ?" The cars (also collectibles) always seem to find their way from USA Store shelves for under 20 bucks. What is the difference ??? One dude on this site once stated that if you visit Japan, you will pay the same amount in Yen at a toy store as you would through mail order because thats just the set price the company charges and they arent marketing them as "kids toys" like in the USA. Anyone know if this is true ???

I'm trying to make heads and tails of your post, can you please tell me if I'm interpretting this right?

Dub City model cars sell in the US for under 20 dollars, thus you believe that there's no import cost on them? Are these cars made to sell in the US, or are they primarily sold in Japan, and then some US stores pick them up (i.e. they had to special import them).

Edit: Ahh, Jada Toys, based in america and sells cars to the American Market.


OK I think I see where your confusion is coming from. You think that a Classics Hound is and should be the same as Hankei hound, after this so called "import fee."

Let me bring another comparison which is relevant and decently comparable to this import fee. That is the act of buying cocaine. Now it's fairly easy to make cocaine and if you asked around the local stuff would be cheaper than the imported stuff. However most people would tell you that the imported stuff is better? Why? I dunno I'm not a druggie so I can't tell you. However the imported stuff costs more. Why? because it passes through more hands and each hand wants its cut.

Let's bring that back to Hasbro vs Takara. Hasbro pays for their import fees, which is shipping/handling, loading/unloading, taxes, and whatever else. They then distribute that cost evenly among the millions of units that find their ways to the store shelves, thus being cheaper (completely ignoring the paint apps, QC, etc of the item itself).
Takara doesn't have to pay the shipping and handling to the US, or taxes to the US, or whatever else. Thus anyone looking to bring in Takara stuff has to do so on their own dime. Hasbro has cheaper costs because they ship millions of units, thus allowing for a wider base to spread their cost over. The importer (I'll use BBTS as an example) ships in thousands of units, but they have to go through a distributor that will orginize that for them. BBTS has to pay them for that. This means that so far there is Takara's Factories --> Distributor --> Importing --> BBTS. Compare that to Hasbro's model of Hasbro Factories (actually Takara Factories) --> Importing --> Store Shelves.

See that? Takara to the US would be at least 4 hands, Hasbro's direct-to-store is only 3. That's what we mean when we say Import Costs, those extra hands that are needed to get stuff from there to here.

I went out to Walmart tonight and I got to see the Powerglide in question for myself. I must admit, it does look good. Maybe I'll pick it up (on clearance) and ust it as a Masterpiece Powerglide and put it wuth the Alternators like I'm planning to do with Alternity Bee & Cliff.

Yeah, the Hardhead is so becoming Universe Bulkhead!

Can anybody tell me how much the Gathering at the Nemesis is? I don't have any of these figures yet and want to justify planning a trip to the nearest city with a TRU. I'm like 3 hours from it. Gotta make a day outta the journey.

It's $75 Canadian... frigging stupid. I think it's priced in the States at $60

Blurrz wrote:It's $75 Canadian... frigging stupid. I think it's priced in the States at $60

I paid $49.99 for mine, so it is a bit cheaper than current prices ($22 Voyagers and $13 Deluxes). It still feels like a ripoff because I can't get into the habit of paying that much, I'm still on the $10/$20 price points that have been around since A/E/C.

I walked into a local TRU last night and saw some guy carrying Back Road Brawl and then ran back to toy isle and saw that they had 1 left on the shelf. As i picked it up and took a look at it, Hoist looks freaking badass and is detailed very nicely. then looked at G1 Mixmaster, which his G1 colors look good and at the sametime odd on this movie line figure, but then i focused on his head! it was messed up, like someone took a lighter to it and then painted the silver mouth piece on him and because of his head deformity i passed on this 2 pack set. Will try another TRU later on today.

Then this morning i stopped by walmart to see if any Ultra class figures was instock. Saw the empty space for them on the shelf but nothing yet. I hope they will have some by tomorrow or by the end of the week.

Hey Mkall:

Thanks for clarifing that import thing. So if Im interpreting this correctly you are saying shipping things in mass quantity (such as Hasbro figures or Jada diecast cars) brings down the price because the huge corparation absorbs the cost ??? However with the small companies, somebody with alot less money is traveling to Japen and buying maybe 500 of these Henkei figures and is paying the import fees themselves ??? Obviously this explains the high price.

But nobody seems to know the actual street retail value of Henkai figures. If I take a vacation to Japan and stop by a toy store, am I gonna pay $69.99 in yen or $12.99 in yen since I am not importing it but buying it as a walk in customer ??? What is the real price Japanese kids pay for these things ???

And here comes the big question:

If Hasbro has so much money that they can ship in millions, Obviously the company they are doing business with has the mold. So why not pay them off to repaint all the seekers ??? Doesnt money talk ???

If they really wanted to, they could give us:

Classics Skywarp
Classics Thundercracker
Classics Thrust
Classics Dirge
Classics Sunstorm
Classics Hydrostorm (sombody's really cool take on the 3rd rainmaker)
Classics Ghost Starscream
A pink seeker with purple polka-dots just to let everybody know they got the mold and money talks

Rated X wrote:Hey Mkall:

Thanks for clarifing that import thing. So if Im interpreting this correctly you are saying shipping things in mass quantity (such as Hasbro figures or Jada diecast cars) brings down the price because the huge corparation absorbs the cost ??? However with the small companies, somebody with alot less money is traveling to Japen and buying maybe 500 of these Henkei figures and is paying the import fees themselves ??? Obviously this explains the high price.

But nobody seems to know the actual street retail value of Henkai figures. If I take a vacation to Japan and stop by a toy store, am I gonna pay $69.99 in yen or $12.99 in yen since I am not importing it but buying it as a walk in customer ??? What is the real price Japanese kids pay for these things ???

And here comes the big question:

If Hasbro has so much money that they can ship in millions, Obviously the company they are doing business with has the mold. So why not pay them off to repaint all the seekers ??? Doesnt money talk ???

If they really wanted to, they could give us:

Classics Skywarp
Classics Thundercracker
Classics Thrust
Classics Dirge
Classics Sunstorm
Classics Hydrostorm (sombody's really cool take on the 3rd rainmaker)
Classics Ghost Starscream
A pink seeker with purple polka-dots just to let everybody know they got the mold and money talks

For the seekers, the problem isn't that mold, it's a license or agreement on how it gets used. Fun Publications did Thundercracker/Thrust/Dirge for Botcon '07, and Hasbro won't remake those because it would diminish the value of the existing ones and piss alot of collectors off.

Skywarp exists; he was packed in with Classics Ultra Magnus in a Target-exclusive two pack.

After Universe Sunstorm shelf warmed, and Animated Sunstorm ended up as a clearance product, I don't think they're going to do another Sunstorm any time soon. Maybe in U 3.0, maybe not.

Ghost Starscream is a peculiar beast. The Henkei version is a mail away using a card from the Generations 2009 Volume 02. So you must buy the book, clip the card, mail it in, wait (it's only open to Japanese residents). So in order for us to get it, we need proxies which live in Japan and do the leg work of getting the figure. I don't think Hasbro will do a version which will diminish the value and rarity of the Henkei version. Plus, there isn't a huge draw for clear figures in the US.

Razorclaw0000 wrote:Ghost Starscream is a peculiar beast. The Henkei version is a mail away using a card from the Generations 2009 Volume 02. So you must buy the book, clip the card, mail it in, wait (it's only open to Japanese residents). So in order for us to get it, we need proxies which live in Japan and do the leg work of getting the figure. I don't think Hasbro will do a version which will diminish the value and rarity of the Henkei version. Plus, there isn't a huge draw for clear figures in the US.

Actually, you can order the Ghost Starscream from BBTS or TFSource, so you don't need to know anyone in Japan.

I always figured we'd get that figure as a Botcon exclusive. Acid Storm seemed to sell alright, so I think there is probably still a market for a US Sunstorm.

Rated X wrote:But nobody seems to know the actual street retail value of Henkai figures. If I take a vacation to Japan and stop by a toy store, am I gonna pay $69.99 in yen or $12.99 in yen since I am not importing it but buying it as a walk in customer ??? What is the real price Japanese kids pay for these things ???

Your numbers aren't fair...

and we DO know the Japanese retail cost.

Deluxe figures are between $12-16 US
Voyager figures are between $20-24 US
The USA Edition Powerglide, Silverbolt, and Onslaught were right at $30 if I remember correctly.

You can almost always bet that in order to purchase the figure and have it get to you in the US from overseas that you'll pay between 1.8 and 1.9 times the Japanese retail release cost.

Exclusive special editions are another story all together where you're looking at $80-100 flat charges because these toys require significant effort to obtain and then to get to you.

RodimusConvoy13 wrote:

Razorclaw0000 wrote:Ghost Starscream is a peculiar beast. The Henkei version is a mail away using a card from the Generations 2009 Volume 02. So you must buy the book, clip the card, mail it in, wait (it's only open to Japanese residents). So in order for us to get it, we need proxies which live in Japan and do the leg work of getting the figure. I don't think Hasbro will do a version which will diminish the value and rarity of the Henkei version. Plus, there isn't a huge draw for clear figures in the US.

Actually, you can order the Ghost Starscream from BBTS or TFSource, so you don't need to know anyone in Japan.

I always figured we'd get that figure as a Botcon exclusive. Acid Storm seemed to sell alright, so I think there is probably still a market for a US Sunstorm.

What I meant was, for BBTS or TFSource, etc, to obtain stock of these to sell, they must hire people (or use some other proxy in Japan) to do the leg work of being a Japanese resident and obtaining this exclusive.

It's even harder for things like Henkei Strafe. For that, the proxy must have good enough credit to get the credit card you must use to purchase the figure, and be a Japanese resident.

My point is that I personally don't need to know anyone in Japan, and what I'm paying for with my $80-$100 is the service for obtaining the figure and putting it into my hands. There's a lot of middle men in there, and each one takes a margin.

Counterpunch wrote:

Rated X wrote:But nobody seems to know the actual street retail value of Henkai figures. If I take a vacation to Japan and stop by a toy store, am I gonna pay $69.99 in yen or $12.99 in yen since I am not importing it but buying it as a walk in customer ??? What is the real price Japanese kids pay for these things ???

Your numbers aren't fair...

and we DO know the Japanese retail cost.

Deluxe figures are between $12-16 US
Voyager figures are between $20-24 US
The USA Edition Powerglide, Silverbolt, and Onslaught were right at $30 if I remember correctly.

You can almost always bet that in order to purchase the figure and have it get to you in the US from overseas that you'll pay between 1.8 and 1.9 times the Japanese retail release cost.

Exclusive special editions are another story all together where you're looking at $80-100 flat charges because these toys require significant effort to obtain and then to get to you.

Don't forget the exchange rate's gotten a lot worse. IIRC, A dollar used to be worth more than 100 yen, but now I think it's worth less, which also makes imports more expensive.

In other news, I got Hardhead today and absolutely love him to bits. I've never owned the mold before (I felt the Energon/ROTF version made a better Onslaught), so he is unique to me as Hardhead. Probably one of the most fun figures from the Universe line.

By the way, am I the only one who actually didn't mind white Powerglide?

Nekoman wrote:By the way, am I the only one who actually didn't mind white Powerglide?

I like his arms and hips, and the fact that I got him for less than 10usd!

Dread_Wing wrote:

Nekoman wrote:By the way, am I the only one who actually didn't mind white Powerglide?

I like his arms and hips,:mrgreen:

You flirt.

Hey thanks for all the responses guys. Ive really enjoyed keeping this forum live on my days off from work. As far as Thrust and Dirge being Botcon 2007 Exclusives and pissing alot of collecters off, I dont think anything only 2 years old should be monopolized as a collector's item. If you collect baseball cards or comic books, you know that reprints of famous issues are made all the time so that collectors can have a piece of history in their hands. Why not transformers too ??? Oh yeah...cause unless they stamp a big "RE-ISSUE" on Thrust's forehead, a few rich guys are gonna get pissed off that the the general public actually has a chance to enjoy their favorite characters too. Horrors...

I read all comments but still nobody answered the actual question:

If I was a Japanese kid living in Japan and I walked in a toy store, how much would I pay to buy a Henkei deluxe figure over the counter in yen ???

Anybody actually been to Japan ??? Im well aware of how much these figures are worth to collecters and importers, but how much are they sold to the public for in a country where you can buy them in any shopping mall ???

Rated X wrote:If I was a Japanese kid living in Japan and I walked in a toy store, how much would I pay to buy a Henkei deluxe figure over the counter in yen ???

Sunstreaker for example would cost you exactly 2,310 yen (around $24)

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/products/henkei/lineup/c07.html

That's a lot of money, but don't think just toys are expensive in Japan. A Japanese DVD will run you around $60 (in Japan), that's because a lot of stuff is different in Japan too. Like for example, their taxes, I believe Japan has higher, and more taxes than we do in the United States. This makes Takara have to charge more, to make a profit.

Nekoman wrote:

Rated X wrote:If I was a Japanese kid living in Japan and I walked in a toy store, how much would I pay to buy a Henkei deluxe figure over the counter in yen ???

Sunstreaker for example would cost you exactly 2,310 yen (around $24)

http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/products/henkei/lineup/c07.html

That's a lot of money, but don't think just toys are expensive in Japan. A Japanese DVD will run you around $60 (in Japan), that's because a lot of stuff is different in Japan too. Like for example, their taxes, I believe Japan has higher, and more taxes than we do in the United States. This makes Takara have to charge more, to make a profit.

Also, these "toys" are not really targeted at 5-year-olds like they are in the US. I'm pretty sure that they're geared towards adults alot more. I mean look at some of the exclusives. The Space Galaxy Destruction Team had each member blind packed inside Micron Legends Convoy Super Mode, which was something like 4,999Y. So, if you were perfectly lucky, at minimum, you'd be buying three Convoys. For $50 or $60 US a pop. Transformers are definitely targeted more to adults in Japan.

Rated X wrote:As far as Thrust and Dirge being Botcon 2007 Exclusives and pissing alot of collecters off, I dont think anything only 2 years old should be monopolized as a collector's item. If you collect baseball cards or comic books, you know that reprints of famous issues are made all the time so that collectors can have a piece of history in their hands. Why not transformers too ??? Oh yeah...cause unless they stamp a big "RE-ISSUE" on Thrust's forehead, a few rich guys are gonna get pissed off that the the general public actually has a chance to enjoy their favorite characters too. Horrors...

::Mod Powers Activate::
You know...you're pretty much openly flame-baiting here. That's really not going to cut it, especially considering how volatile that subject matter is.

If you do not understand the ins and outs, the hows and whys of exclusive figures, BotCon, or the end of the Classics line and FunPub's push to ensure Seeker availability, then I invite you to do a forum search here, at TFW, at the AllSpark, TFWiki, and any other remotely credible site for discussion.

We are not dredging this topic up again in an inflammatory manner.