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Sabrblade wrote:I can't think of a single Optimus Prime who has this much zest and excitement for life that he's willing to take more risks and bend more rules for better results.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I mean what has been said about Primal's characterisation already brings to mind he has been shoehorned into one of the Prime archetypes and not who he actually is. He isn't supposed to be 'Prime: The Gorilla'. Bringing him down to that level does seem to be missing the essence of the character himself.
If anything, this Optimus Primal is the living embodiment of the mantra "Sometimes crazy works!"
For their AGES, not their personalities! Compared to New Primal, Animated Prime was a rule-abiding square. The only thing the two have in common is that they're both young guys just starting their respective careers.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Sabrblade wrote:I can't think of a single Optimus Prime who has this much zest and excitement for life that he's willing to take more risks and bend more rules for better results.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:I mean what has been said about Primal's characterisation already brings to mind he has been shoehorned into one of the Prime archetypes and not who he actually is. He isn't supposed to be 'Prime: The Gorilla'. Bringing him down to that level does seem to be missing the essence of the character himself.
If anything, this Optimus Primal is the living embodiment of the mantra "Sometimes crazy works!"
Animated Prime I believe is the Optimus literally everyone on the last few pages has mentioned direct comparison with.
And what did I just say about New Primal's mindset? Oh yeah, it was "outside-the-box way of thinking".AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Also, ‘Crazy’ in that context is thinking outside the box. Not acting like Cheetor, who already has those character traits.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote: He's young, he's green, and he's ready to boldly go where no Maximal has gone before. I definitely still heard Garry Chalk's voice coming out of him, but 1980s Garry Chalk rather than 1990s Garry Chalk.
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Anyway, hot-headed, risky and impulsive = Cheetor. Giving those traits to Primal basically makes Cheetor redundant. Much in the same way the emphasis on Nyx is pushing him into the background elsewhere.
He hasn't even read it yet.william-james88 wrote:AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Anyway, hot-headed, risky and impulsive = Cheetor. Giving those traits to Primal basically makes Cheetor redundant. Much in the same way the emphasis on Nyx is pushing him into the background elsewhere.
I really think it's a bit nonsensical to write off this new series on an aspect of just one issue. I mean I had to give some kind of grade for review purposes but 1 issue isn't enough to write off any aspect about it, side from the art if one simply can't get past the style. I am curious of this take on Primal and it at least gives us something different. We can all judge it later if indeed it does not work or becomes a detriment to other characters.
I'm looking forward to seeing where all this goes, I'm a huge beast wars fan and I am glad this era is getting some more fiction for once, and from passionate creators too.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Anyway, hot-headed, risky and impulsive = Cheetor. Giving those traits to Primal basically makes Cheetor redundant. Much in the same way the emphasis on Nyx is pushing him into the background elsewhere.
Sabrblade wrote:So, by your logic, Optimus Primal has never been young, can never be young, and should never be young. He is only ever born as an middle-aged adult, already mature, and never has to grow up and learn to be a leader. And anything less than perfection from him is blasphemy. Got it.
william-james88 wrote:I really think it's a bit nonsensical to write off this new series on an aspect of just one issue.
I'm looking forward to seeing where all this goes, I'm a huge beast wars fan and I am glad this era is getting some more fiction for once,
Sabrblade wrote:He hasn't even read it yet.
william-james88 wrote:and from passionate creators too.
JazZeke wrote:Except Cheetor's even more hotheaded, impulsive behavior could be used as a mirror to Primal's own and provide a motivation for him to start leading more responsibly. That would be some good character writing, methinks.
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:william-james88 wrote:and from passionate creators too.
That however, remains to be seen. As I'm pretty sure those behind IDW 2.0 said similar.
"Bio-mechanical" was the term used on the original toys' packaging. Though, Beast Machines pretty much grouped all of the Beast Wars body forms as different variations under the umbrella term of just "organic". I'd probably just call the Season 1 forms as robots merely wearing organic (or "imitation organic", I suppose) shells that aren't actually integrated into their inner structures like how the organic aspects of their technorganic bodies on Beast Machines were.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Sabrblade wrote:Though, a term that this comic uses incorrectly as a carryover from the older IDW Beast Wars comics is the use of "techno-organic" to describe the material that makes up their new beast modes. That term, as originally used on Beast Machines (where it was just "Technorganic"), is supposed to refer to a molecular blending of the organic with the technological as a distinctly different concept from what was used in Beast Wars. It's not right for it to be used in this case, as the Beast Wars bodies of the Maximals and Predacons are not techno-organic.
That continues to be an oddity within Beast Wars. Whereas it is specifically vocalised in Beast Machines, I always took the descriptive 'Techno-organic' to reference Transmetal 2. As that form is more of a blend than any of the others. But, that said. Without using that term, how do you describe their forms in Season One?![]()
It's not like the cartoon handled Dinobot's defection that gracefully either. If anything, the pilot rushed it so as to get the series' status quo sooner than later.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Sabrblade wrote: Dinobot's honorable nature is on point and sets up his eventual defection to the Maximals (which the author notes in his interview at the end of the issue will NOT be executed the same as it was in the show, meaning there's no telling how it will play out whenever it does happen).
To me, that says padding. It reminds me of The Walking Dead and how the character of Shane was handled in the original comic and unfortunately, within the TV adaptation. Or the last Robocop reboot. Wherein the lead actor remarked on how they would emphasise Murphy more than his alter ego aka The Titular Character.
A case of "We know what is going to happen. If you are still going to do it, don't drag it out and just get on with it."
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:JazZeke wrote:Except Cheetor's even more hotheaded, impulsive behavior could be used as a mirror to Primal's own and provide a motivation for him to start leading more responsibly. That would be some good character writing, methinks.
The thing is, it works for Cheetor because he is the youngest on the team. It is a weird take on Primal, because he is commander of his own ship and crew. For example, Star Trek TNG wouldn't have worked if Picard had the same characterisation as Wesley.
Sabrblade wrote:"Bio-mechanical" was the term used on the original toys' packaging. Though, Beast Machines pretty much grouped all of the Beast Wars body forms as different variations under the umbrella term of just "organic". I'd probably just call the Season 1 forms as robots merely wearing organic (or "imitation organic", I suppose) shells that aren't actually integrated into their inner structures like how the organic aspects of their technorganic bodies on Beast Machines were.
Sabrblade wrote:It's not like the cartoon handled Dinobot's defection that gracefully either. If anything, the pilot rushed it so as to get the series' status quo sooner than later.
He starts off believing that Megatron led the Preds to the wrong planet and throws a hissy fit at his leader, disrespecting him like a child who doesn't get his way. In his disgrace, he huffs over to the Maximals and only decides to join them because of his petty vendetta with Megatron. He then spends much of the first season acting like Maximal Starscream until he finally moves past his pettiness later and grows to become the phenomenal character that he's remembered as being. But those early episode appearances of his did him no favors.
Conversely, this new Dinobot has been given no reasons to even think of betraying Megatron anytime soon because, so far, everything that's happened in this first issue has apparently gone all according to Megatron's plan. He tells his crew that the Golden Disk will lead them to an energon-rich planet, and that's exactly what happens. In the cartoon, Dinobot and Tarantulas were the only Predacons who knew of Megatron's true plan for the disk, but which seems to not be the case here.
Sabrblade wrote:If anything, it would make sense for Dinobot to remain a Predacon for a bit longer if there's going to be any promotional tie-in with the Kingdom line since Dinobot's Kingdom toy is being sold as a Predacon. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case since, according the interviews at the end of the issue, the decision to make this whole series a new take on the cartoon's premise seems to have come from on high at Hasbro for the sake of marketing consistency across the brand, meaning that any new Beast Wars comic couldn't have reinvented the wheel from the ground up even if they wanted to.
So, with the recycled cartoon premise having been an executive mandate, it's up to Burnham to take the story in whatever new directions he can within the confines of keeping things consistent for the brand. After all, Burnham mentioned that his original draft was "like 99% beat for beat" the same as the cartoon. Whereas the final version is riddled with tons of little differences in the details (the space battle's completely different, for one). He makes it clear that he wants to tell a new and different version of the story, but still has to adhere to what his bosses want from this series.
JazZeke wrote:AllNewSuperRobot wrote:JazZeke wrote:Except Cheetor's even more hotheaded, impulsive behavior could be used as a mirror to Primal's own and provide a motivation for him to start leading more responsibly. That would be some good character writing, methinks.
The thing is, it works for Cheetor because he is the youngest on the team. It is a weird take on Primal, because he is commander of his own ship and crew. For example, Star Trek TNG wouldn't have worked if Picard had the same characterisation as Wesley.
Picard was the captain of the fleet's flagship. Primal is seen here relegated to almost a punishment assignment for his behavior. It's not a fair comparison.
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:JazZeke wrote:AllNewSuperRobot wrote:JazZeke wrote:Except Cheetor's even more hotheaded, impulsive behavior could be used as a mirror to Primal's own and provide a motivation for him to start leading more responsibly. That would be some good character writing, methinks.
The thing is, it works for Cheetor because he is the youngest on the team. It is a weird take on Primal, because he is commander of his own ship and crew. For example, Star Trek TNG wouldn't have worked if Picard had the same characterisation as Wesley.
Picard was the captain of the fleet's flagship. Primal is seen here relegated to almost a punishment assignment for his behavior. It's not a fair comparison.
The fact the "punishment" backstory had to be brought in to justify the new characterisation is strange in itself.
Oh, Hasbro absolutely meddled in the original show. Primal's resurrection in Season 2's third episode, for instance, was a compromise between what Mainframe wanted vs. what Hasbro wanted. Mainframe wanted him to stay dead and not come back until the Season 2 finale, while Hasbro wanted him back immediately, as early as the first episode of Season 2, undermining the weight of his death in the Season 1 finale.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Naturally the meddling from Hasbro is the main difference between this book and the original show.
Yeah, he was not happy with that.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Conversely, the "99% beat for beat" script is not something I would have bought or wanted to read.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:Oh, Hasbro absolutely meddled in the original show. Primal's resurrection in Season 2's third episode, for instance, was a compromise between what Mainframe wanted vs. what Hasbro wanted. Mainframe wanted him to stay dead and not come back until the Season 2 finale, while Hasbro wanted him back immediately, as early as the first episode of Season 2, undermining the weight of his death in the Season 1 finale.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Naturally the meddling from Hasbro is the main difference between this book and the original show.
william-james88 wrote:AllNewSuperRobot wrote:william-james88 wrote:and from passionate creators too.
That however, remains to be seen. As I'm pretty sure those behind IDW 2.0 said similar.
this first Beast Wars issue is better than any issue from 2.0
Burnham: We didn't want to wait until whenever Blackarachnia shows up to have female characters in the book.
Burnham: ...or, no, maybe the first conversation between Dinobot and Nyx.
she starts off as strong, but otherwise shy and looking for acceptance. Eventually, she's going to come out of her shell (pun intended) and I think, at that point, if we've done everything right, fans will cheer.
Simple: To have female representation on both sides from the outset. Otherwise, it'd be an entirely male cast at the start of the series, and we apparently can't have that anymore in this day and age.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:RE: Nyx and SkoldBurnham: We didn't want to wait until whenever Blackarachnia shows up to have female characters in the book.
Why? There doesn't seem an earnest reason for that. The two female leads of Beast Wars are two of the strongest in characterisation in Transformers. I doubt it was a mandate either.
(No, Blackarachnia and Airazor weren't available from the jump. The answer to why is basically "because." No sarcasm, that's how it goes sometimes! And why did we start in such a similar place? Because those were elements asked to be included in issue 1!)
How... How did you get "shipping" out of the word "conversation"? That's a huge leap in logic, there. Talking doesn't automatically mean romance.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:However, a little further on, is likely the answer:
RE: Upcoming IssuesBurnham: ...or, no, maybe the first conversation between Dinobot and Nyx.
So, shipping then? That has ominous connotations on how Dinobot's story will be altered.
Character development is a bad thing? You don't want her to overcome her personal flaw by growing out of her shyness?AllNewSuperRobot wrote:RE: Skoldshe starts off as strong, but otherwise shy and looking for acceptance. Eventually, she's going to come out of her shell (pun intended) and I think, at that point, if we've done everything right, fans will cheer.
That sounds like latter IDWverse over humanising nonsense creeping in. Which makes me highly sceptical about where this book will go.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Sabrblade wrote:How... How did you get "shipping" out of the word "conversation"? That's a huge leap in logic, there. Talking doesn't automatically mean romance.AllNewSuperRobot wrote:However, a little further on, is likely the answer:
RE: Upcoming IssuesBurnham: ...or, no, maybe the first conversation between Dinobot and Nyx.
So, shipping then? That has ominous connotations on how Dinobot's story will be altered.
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:RE: Skoldshe starts off as strong, but otherwise shy and looking for acceptance. Eventually, she's going to come out of her shell (pun intended) and I think, at that point, if we've done everything right, fans will cheer.
That sounds like latter IDWverse over humanising nonsense creeping in. Which makes me highly sceptical about where this book will go.
Sabrblade wrote:Character development is a bad thing? You don't want her to overcome her personal flaw by growing out of her shyness?
The cast of the original cartoon was extremely humanized as they were, feeling more like real people than cartoon characters.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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