The Energon Pub

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:I haven't read back through the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone... But I have a theory.

All female, no ranged weapons, called "torchbearers"... Is it possible that Victorion's components are from Caminus?

Why wouldnt they be from the Sea of Rust?

In IDW continuity, there are no female Transformers native to Cybertron.

Don't ask about Arcee. There's drama there that you want no part of.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:I haven't read back through the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone... But I have a theory.

All female, no ranged weapons, called "torchbearers"... Is it possible that Victorion's components are from Caminus?

Why wouldnt they be from the Sea of Rust?

In IDW continuity, there are no female Transformers native to Cybertron.

Don't ask about Arcee. There's drama there that you want no part of.

What? But Alpha Trion clearly is said to be her father.

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:I haven't read back through the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone... But I have a theory.

All female, no ranged weapons, called "torchbearers"... Is it possible that Victorion's components are from Caminus?

Why wouldnt they be from the Sea of Rust?

In IDW continuity, there are no female Transformers native to Cybertron.

Don't ask about Arcee. There's drama there that you want no part of.

What? But Alpha Trion clearly is said to be her father.

If I remember correctly it has something to do with shockwave and an experiment, right?

Hellscream9999 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:I haven't read back through the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone... But I have a theory.

All female, no ranged weapons, called "torchbearers"... Is it possible that Victorion's components are from Caminus?

Why wouldnt they be from the Sea of Rust?

In IDW continuity, there are no female Transformers native to Cybertron.

Don't ask about Arcee. There's drama there that you want no part of.

What? But Alpha Trion clearly is said to be her father.

If I remember correctly it has something to do with shockwave and an experiment, right?

Hmmm how do I sum it up best? ah! "A beautiful woman with the soul of the devil: Jhiaxus Created Woman!"

Hellscream9999 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:I haven't read back through the thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone... But I have a theory.

All female, no ranged weapons, called "torchbearers"... Is it possible that Victorion's components are from Caminus?

Why wouldnt they be from the Sea of Rust?

In IDW continuity, there are no female Transformers native to Cybertron.

Don't ask about Arcee. There's drama there that you want no part of.

What? But Alpha Trion clearly is said to be her father.

If I remember correctly it has something to do with shockwave and an experiment, right?

Three words: forced gender reassignment.

Like I said, let's not go there.

It was furman's idea to introduce gender to a race with no gender...and got messy really quickly. Even got more messy when windlass got her first miniseries.

ZeroWolf wrote:It was furman's idea to introduce gender to a race with no gender...and got messy really quickly. Even got more messy when windlass got her first miniseries.

Usually, when an attractive female go into a "boy's club", it really... hmmmm... get messy pretty quickly.

*raises eyebrow, slowly*

In retrospect, jhiaxus' s treatment of arcee almost feels like an allegory for how furman treated arcee and the concept of fembots.

So last night I showed my niece the pics of Vicky, because she asked about the new "girl" transformer she heard about on the news. I'm well known as the nerd of my family, so the kids all come to me with toy questions, even though the bulk of my knowledge is thirty years old.

Anywhoo, I showed her, and her response was: "those are boys. Ugly boys".

Personally, I think the idea of gender in robots is silly, but Hasbro made a huge publicity deal out of this, and I think they spectacularly dropped the ball.

Look, we can argue gender looks and stereotypes all day long till we are blue in the face, and it t matters nothing. When I look at robots, I see robots, especially in toys. So do many of you. The public is not the same. When you say male or female, the average person gets an instant picture in their mind of what to expect. Vicky, I think, doesn't quite live up to that. I honestly didn't ev n think of this until my niece so strongly rejected Vicky. Personally, I hate the colors and I hate the fact it's a giant repaint, but at least it isn't any classic characters.

My final thought: brilliant idea Hasbro, but horribly pathetic execution.

I don't see how hasbro dropped the ball to the extent people are acting like, I now think people may of expected too much like Burn suggested (in a way, I know he was only on about the colours but it looks like it was universal)

Also on furman and arcee, I really don't think he would of done that story like that if he knew what lay ahead, after all it was an interesting attempt to try and explain why there was a female when it had already been established that they didn't have genders. Actually, with hindsight, furman would probably change her back story to something that didn't offend so many people

Ironhidensh wrote:

My final thought: brilliant idea Hasbro, but horribly pathetic execution.

I wholeheartedly agree. I can't remember being so excited for the idea of a completely new Transformer concept. I think of all the planning involved. Victorian's backstory,her design, her individual bot designs, her color scheme and the opportunity for a brand new piece of Transformer history/culture to add to the exciting mythology. And then this happens...

With respect to all those who anticipate this momentous release I must express my utter disappointment. First, let's get the obvious arguments out of the way."You knew she was going to be a (rehash)redeco/remold." I can think of a few recent molds that would have been better suited to express the teams femininity. Yes, they are closer to the runway model depiction of the female form but are far more appropriate then the highly angular designs chosen.

"You (the fans) chose the color scheme." Yes. Yes we did. Any good designer, who is the sum of all their expertise and experience knows that you choose a simple color scheme that complements the product or artwork. Let's look at the constructicons. Yellow-Green and Purple. It has worked for thirty years. It's also peppered with subtle additions of blue,red,silver and black (and I'm sure a few more colors). The designers seemed to have forgotten that with complex robot forms, the basic color palette needs to "interrupted" in order to draw attention to certain areas eg. the head, torso, weapons etc.

"The female figure takes on many different shapes." This is the most obvious statement. Let's look at some interpretations of this form as depicted in various cultures since the dawn of civilization.





I think that the second Hasbro decided to announce they were releasing their first "All-Female" combiner they shot themselves in the foot. The idea of robots that are now defined by gender is arguably ludicrous. Though that may be, I think we as fans have been curious to see how that development pans out in the mythology. (I know I am.) It is my extremely humble opinion that if you do decide to go the gender route you must make it obvious that the species (yes I said it)is clearly delineated according to their physiology. Unfortunately, in this case, the team that comprises Victorian are not.

My last concern is something that I don't think has been brought up (could be wrong, and I usually am). When I look at that fantastic Victorian head sculpt and sword I can't help but be drawn towards their unique design. I see them and it's clear they do NOT belong to any earth-based design. They are appropriately alien and call to attention their alien origins. The extreme angles on the Victorian head sculpt and the sweeping curves abundant in the sword indicate a specific culture that are otherworldly. If these ladies are indeed from Cybertrons Sea of Rust wasteland why are their vehicle designs earth-based? To put it succinctly, her limbs and torso are not congruous to the head,hands,feet and weapon designs.

I'm sad to say that I'm in the "disappointed" camp as I've been looking forward to this team for a long time. Anything worth doing is worth doing to the extent of one's abilities.

If they paint it better, change the head to look like Sara Pitre-Durocher interpretation of Victorion then I'll buy it, but if they don't let's hope a third party company makes a upgrade kit, if not, time to look up a shapeways artists or take up some 3d modeling and painting lessons.

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't see how hasbro dropped the ball to the extent people are acting like, I now think people may of expected too much like Burn suggested (in a way, I know he was only on about the colours but it looks like it was universal)

Also on furman and arcee, I really don't think he would of done that story like that if he knew what lay ahead, after all it was an interesting attempt to try and explain why there was a female when it had already been established that they didn't have genders. Actually, with hindsight, furman would probably change her back story to something that didn't offend so many people

no, probably not. Furman has not had the best intentions for arcee over the past 30 years. I mean the way he introduced her in the marvel G1 Comics was that angry "feminists" (quotations there because real old school feminism was more about having the same economic and social/educational opportunities as men) rallied against the autobots for gender equality in their ranks. This despite furman's writings always insisting that transformers have no gender or sex. Which always bugged me, I mean Bob Budiansky who created allot of the mythos of transformers, wanted there to be women in the transformers' ranks; notably ratchet was meant to be a woman. It always felt odd to me that the writers had to justify female transformers, when they had no problem using suspension of disbelief for everything else. I know it was just 80's sexism, but it came off from a story telling perspective as the writers saying:

"Giant transforming alien robots? that's cool."

"Alien robots that turn into things? makes sense."

"Alien robots that change into things waging a million year long intergalactic civil war?" perfectly logical.

"Alien robots that change into things waging a million year long intergalactic civil war and some of them happen to be dude bots or lady bots? Whoa, Whoa, I just need you to stop right there and get the **** out, that's too much for Suspension of disbelief.

Alpha Dominus wrote:
(a bunch of stuff I don't care about)

My last concern is something that I don't think has been brought up (could be wrong, and I usually am). When I look at that fantastic Victorian head sculpt and sword I can't help but be drawn towards their unique design. I see them and it's clear they do NOT belong to any earth-based design. They are appropriately alien and call to attention their alien origins. The extreme angles on the Victorian head sculpt and the sweeping curves abundant in the sword indicate a specific culture that are otherworldly. If these ladies are indeed from Cybertron's Sea of Rust wasteland why are their vehicle designs earth-based? To put it succinctly, her limbs and torso are not congruous to the head,hands,feet and weapon designs.

Uh, I dunno, maybe because we don't have any deluxe or voyager class figures with Cybertronic alt-modes?

Alpha Dominus wrote:"The female figure takes on many different shapes." This is the most obvious statement. Let's look at some interpretations of this form as depicted in various cultures since the dawn of civilization.
http://www.oberlin.edu/images/516S.JPG
http://www.jasondejong.ca/Muses/Prehist ... h_Horn.jpg
http://p2.la-img.com/1212/31113/12255377_1_l.jpg
https://elysesnow.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 082sp2.jpg

Uh, isn't it inappropriate to show these pictures?

SillySpringer wrote:

Alpha Dominus wrote:"The female figure takes on many different shapes." This is the most obvious statement. Let's look at some interpretations of this form as depicted in various cultures since the dawn of civilization.
http://www.oberlin.edu/images/516S.JPG
http://www.jasondejong.ca/Muses/Prehist ... h_Horn.jpg
http://p2.la-img.com/1212/31113/12255377_1_l.jpg
https://elysesnow.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 082sp2.jpg

Uh, isn't it inappropriate to show these pictures?

It is just art from antiquity.

Alpha Dominus wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

My final thought: brilliant idea Hasbro, but horribly pathetic execution.

I wholeheartedly agree. I can't remember being so excited for the idea of a completely new Transformer concept. I think of all the planning involved. Victorian's backstory,her design, her individual bot designs, her color scheme and the opportunity for a brand new piece of Transformer history/culture to add to the exciting mythology. And then this happens...

With respect to all those who anticipate this momentous release I must express my utter disappointment. First, let's get the obvious arguments out of the way."You knew she was going to be a (rehash)redeco/remold." I can think of a few recent molds that would have been better suited to express the teams femininity. Yes, they are closer to the runway model depiction of the female form but are far more appropriate then the highly angular designs chosen.

"You (the fans) chose the color scheme." Yes. Yes we did. Any good designer, who is the sum of all their expertise and experience knows that you choose a simple color scheme that complements the product or artwork. Let's look at the constructicons. Yellow-Green and Purple. It has worked for thirty years. It's also peppered with subtle additions of blue,red,silver and black (and I'm sure a few more colors). The designers seemed to have forgotten that with complex robot forms, the basic color palette needs to "interrupted" in order to draw attention to certain areas eg. the head, torso, weapons etc.

"The female figure takes on many different shapes." This is the most obvious statement. Let's look at some interpretations of this form as depicted in various cultures since the dawn of civilization.





I think that the second Hasbro decided to announce they were releasing their first "All-Female" combiner they shot themselves in the foot. The idea of robots that are now defined by gender is arguably ludicrous. Though that may be, I think we as fans have been curious to see how that development pans out in the mythology. (I know I have.) It is my extremely humble opinion that if you do decide to go the gender route you must make it obvious that the species (yes I said it)is clearly delineated according to their physiology. Unfortunately, in this case, the team that comprises Victorian are not.

My last concern is something that I don't think has been brought up (could be wrong, and I usually am). When I look at that fantastic Victorian head sculpt and sword I can't help but be drawn towards their unique design. I see them and it's clear they do NOT belong to any earth-based design. They are appropriately alien and call to attention their alien origins. The extreme angles on the Victorian head sculpt and the sweeping curves abundant in the sword indicate a specific culture that are otherworldly. If these ladies are indeed from Cybertrons Sea of Rust wasteland why are their vehicle designs earth-based? To put it succinctly, her limbs and torso are not congruous to the head,hands,feet and weapon designs.

I'm sad to say that I'm in the "disappointed" camp as I've been looking forward to this team for a long time. Anything worth doing is worth doing to the extent of one's abilities.

You missed out one thing in your first point, we choose the molds to use as well hence why they were always going to be repaints. So yes people actually voted for two helicopter limbs! (I hold up my hand on that one....I just love the alpha bravo mould that much)

Secondly, her backstory will probably be sorted out in the combiner hunters comic but guesses are she's actually from the colony world of camien. As for the alt modes, Alpha Bravo hasn't been to earth, neither has off-road and Rook. So that's a moot point really.

SW's SilverHammer wrote:This despite furman's writings always insisting that transformers have no gender or sex. Which always bugged me, I mean Bob Budiansky who created allot of the mythos of transformers, wanted there to be women in the transformers' ranks; notably ratchet was meant to be a woman.

To be fair to Furman, it was Budiansky who first established and enforced the "no girls/no genders" rule in the comics that Hasbro of the time requested of him. He, not Furman, was the one who wrote this:

[/quote]As for the alt modes, Alpha Bravo hasn't been to earth, neither has off-road and Rook. So that's a moot point really.[/quote]

Yeah that is a good point. I can say that I look forward to the teams story from IDW. The little I've seen looks pretty interesting. With the awesome new sculpts versus remolds I still think the limb and extremities designs don't jive though.

Ironhidensh wrote:
When I look at that fantastic Victorian head sculpt and sword I can't help but be drawn towards their unique design. I see them and it's clear they do NOT belong to any earth-based design.

Defenitely agree. Hell, I can make Victorion right now by buying Hotspot, two Alpha Bravos, two car stunticons, and spraying all that in red.

The girls should have been their own CYBERTRONIAN molds, for Cybertronian vehicles. That way, the fembots would look FEMALE. Why not a curvy TANK as the torso? The bot mode could have been a big mamma, but a defenitely FEMALE looking big mamma.

If we forget that the toy pretend to be female, it's still a nice set if it sell for cheap.

For all the SJWs deniers out there, I'm sorry, but I want my FEMBOTS to look the part. That repaint is just pure laziness and is a missed opportunuty. As if there's no market for FEMALE LOOKING fembots.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

Alpha Dominus wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:
When I look at that fantastic Victorian head sculpt and sword I can't help but be drawn towards their unique design. I see them and it's clear they do NOT belong to any earth-based design.

Defenitely agree. Hell, I can make Victorion right now by buying Hotspot, two Alpha Bravos, two car stunticons, and spraying all that in red.

The girls should have been their own CYBERTRONIAN molds, for Cybertronian vehicles. That way, the fembots would look FEMALE. Why not a curvy TANK as the torso? The bot mode could have been a big mamma, but a defenitely FEMALE looking big mamma.

If we forget that the toy pretend to be female, it's still a nice set if it sell for cheap.

For all the SJWs deniers out there, I'm sorry, but I want my FEMBOTS to look the part. That repaint is just pure laziness and is a missed opportunuty. As if there's no market for FEMALE LOOKING fembots.

Then don't buy the set. Stop complaining about them to those of us that actually like them

Decepticon Sunstorm wrote:Then don't buy the set. Stop complaining about them to those of us that actually like them

I never said I will never buy it. However, I will buy only if it's found for dirt cheap on clearance. I will also keep the set sealed because I would already have all the molds to play with, and the most female looking part will be the box artwork.

My cash and space is limited and one thing I told myself for combiner wars was to have has many different molds as possiple. For me, Victorion is just the Protectobots team with a limb-swap. I WILL have Defensor relatively soon so I don't see the point for me to have the Victorion team at full price. I also have Superion and Takara Menasor is coming soon. Will get Devastator too, but he don't count.

So, not counting Devastator, I'll wait for something truly unique to get for my 4th "Scramble City" Combiner Wars team. Maybe next years when/if they finally make Predaking and the Seacons.

I'm glad you saw my point there alpha dominus it was a surprise to see someone bring up depictions like that when some are insanely old and many refer to goddesses.

Kana, we voted for these molds so there was never going to be unique sculpts for them. The moulds were chosen before we even knew the gender.

Decepticon Sunstorm wrote:Then don't buy the set. Stop complaining about them to those of us that actually like them

As much as I disagree with the art direction of Victorion I genuinely hope that she sells like blueberry pancakes. I love Transformers and hope the brand continues for a long time. View any of my previous posts and you will know that I am not a naysayer. In fact, this is my first expression of disappointment. All of my opinions are backed up by constructive criticism with absolutely no personal attacks toward my peers.

Those of us that are not in the majority opinion have just as much right to express our opinions as those who view the topic favorably. I,for one, have read from previous designer videos that they frequent popular forums such as Seibertron to get a pulse on fan opinions. Great sites such as this one allow us an opportunity to see that all opinions are heard.