The Energon Pub

Delicon wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:Sorry. This thread is just unbelieveable.

Just be glad we aren't have a discussion on the movie I saw tonight, Bruno.

If anyone thought ROTF was bad, next to Bruno it looks like Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, The Sound of Music and the Godfather all rolled into one.

I was kinda wondering about that. I'm not really too surprised.

Delicon wrote:

Prime Riblet wrote:Sorry. This thread is just unbelieveable.

Just be glad we aren't have a discussion on the movie I saw tonight, Bruno.

If anyone thought ROTF was bad, next to Bruno it looks like Casablanca, Gone with the Wind, The Sound of Music and the Godfather all rolled into one.

And yet, Ebert gave it a good review. How does he have ANY credibility?

Well, because it actually is a better film- and funnier. And since Transformers all of a sudden wants to shoot for scatological bathroom humor- it's safe to say it's in competition with Bruno- and Bruno wins hands down (or is that pants down?).

Bruno should also mop the floor with Transformers this weekend- paving the way for Potter next weekend. As Transformer's boxoffice returns diminish- hopefully it will fall out of the news cycle and we can all go on with our lives.

Me, I still haven't bought a toy or paid for the film (or anything from the first one), so I'm happy to say that I've contributed nothing to this apsect of the franchise, save hypno-beam disdain.


But I will say- for all of you who loved the pot eating dog humping big ball clanking aspects of Transformers- then Bruno is your man.

Maybe he could cameo in Transformers 3 and give Megatron some fashion advice- like how to wear purple.

All I can say is that if he didn't like the film.Good for him! I really don't give a crap about movie critics anyway.

DreadwindsGhost wrote:I didn't realise you spoke for the site. And perhaps HASBRO are just trying to sell their product? Longevity of a brand doesn't mean that people 'deserve' something. Regardless, meh.

It's called experience, young buck. And of course HASBRO's trying to sell its product, that's the whole reason the movie was made, despite our asking for it for years. When you're a consumer you expect a certain level of satisfaction for what you buy. According to your argument, if I go buy a case of mountain spring water that has dirt and rocks in it, I got what I wanted so being upset over rocks and dirt is pointless. You're saying don't get mad if you buy a product and it sucks to you, you got the product and you deserve nothing more. That's just absurd.

DreadwindsGhost wrote:Not disputing that. What I am disputing is whether people SHOULD care. Answer = they shouldn't.

Really. I didn't realize you spoke for the WHOLE WORLD.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Well, because it actually is a better film- and funnier. And since Transformers all of a sudden wants to shoot for scatological bathroom humor- it's safe to say it's in competition with Bruno- and Bruno wins hands down (or is that pants down?).

In your OPINION its a better film. In my opinion Transformers is far better then anything that hack can produce.

I love how so many people try to pass their opinions off as fact

I find it laughable how a Transformers fan could not like this movie. We grew up watching an unrealistic corny cartoon about giant robots and all became huge fans because of it. Now we get a $200 Million dollar version of that and people are going to complain. Also, most of the non_TF fans I spoke to really liked the movie and a lot of them have saw it more than once, which they say they don't do for most other movies.

The funny thing is we got all the stuff that we asked for in TF1 before TF1 came out and now it's not good enough.

GetterDragun wrote:I find it laughable how a Transformers fan could not like this movie. We grew up watching an unrealistic corny cartoon about giant robots and all became huge fans because of it. Now we get a $200 Million dollar version of that and people are going to complain. Also, most of the non_TF fans I spoke to really liked the movie and a lot of them have saw it more than once, which they say they don't do for most other movies.

The funny thing is we got all the stuff that we asked for in TF1 before TF1 came out and now it's not good enough.

You see though, GD, thats just it. We got alot of what was asked for, but in such a manner it was almost insulting. It's like they just took a bunch of key elements from different generations and just mashed them together with no real coherency.

GetterDragun wrote:Now we get a $200 Million dollar version of that and people are going to complain.

Not just complain, but complain that they thought we deserve better. We're happy with G1 and Beast Wars and everything, and when we get something far superior, something that actually IS better, people complain, and somehow believe that it's not good enough.

First Gen wrote:It's called experience, young buck. And of course HASBRO's trying to sell its product, that's the whole reason the movie was made, despite our asking for it for years. When you're a consumer you expect a certain level of satisfaction for what you buy. According to your argument, if I go buy a case of mountain spring water that has dirt and rocks in it, I got what I wanted so being upset over rocks and dirt is pointless. You're saying don't get mad if you buy a product and it sucks to you, you got the product and you deserve nothing more. That's just absurd.

Oooook. So now you're insulting me. Whatever.

When you're a consumer, and a product doesn't live up to your expectations, you don't buy the product anymore. In other words, you vote with your wallet, and that tells the company that their product wasn't liked. Of course you get mad about it, but at the end of the day you can't argue that you feel you deserved better as a loyal fan of the product.

You can't please everyone, and of course not everyone is going to like the movie. But imho, claiming that we as fans 'deserve' certain things, just doesn't make any sense.

Oh, and I never claimed I spoke for the whole world. I'm just trying to speak common sense. As in, it's common sense not to worry too much about what an overpaid critic's opinion of a movie is. There's better things to worry about.

Man, if we are really going to go for the opinion thing here- then this is what I think.

Fans who claim to like either of these films are simply settling, like in a bad relationship because you don't think you can get any better.

And to be honest, I'm not even sure if they're even fans of what used to be called "Transformers," as much as they're fans of female exploitation, casual racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism.

The people who somehow liked this film, got a bucket of eye candy and can't discern between a sugar high and a decent product, sorta like the movie toys.

None of your arguments have done a bit to change my mind- since all of them rely on you being okay with aspects of our culture that I find offensive and shameful.

I hope tons of people are reading this site because of Ebert, so they can see what kind of mentality made this film a success, and to see our community put its best face forward.

SoooTrypticon wrote:And to be honest, I'm not even sure if they're even fans of what used to be called "Transformers," as much as they're fans of female exploitation, casual racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism.

So I can't like both the movies and the rest of the franchise?

EDIT: I had a thought:

SoooTrypticon wrote:female exploitation

Arcee

SoooTrypticon wrote:casual racism

Carbombya

SoooTrypticon wrote:witless humor

Wheelie

SoooTrypticon wrote:and American Jingoism.

Carbombya again

First Gen wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:I find it laughable how a Transformers fan could not like this movie. We grew up watching an unrealistic corny cartoon about giant robots and all became huge fans because of it. Now we get a $200 Million dollar version of that and people are going to complain. Also, most of the non_TF fans I spoke to really liked the movie and a lot of them have saw it more than once, which they say they don't do for most other movies.

The funny thing is we got all the stuff that we asked for in TF1 before TF1 came out and now it's not good enough.

You see though, GD, thats just it. We got alot of what was asked for, but in such a manner it was almost insulting. It's like they just took a bunch of key elements from different generations and just mashed them together with no real coherency.

How? We got lots of robots transforming, looking cool, fighting, a proper Megatron and Starscream relationship, Soundwave, Cullen and Welker, Devastator, Pretenders, crap, even Wheelie! There was not one thing it that movie related to Transformers that wasn't in G1 (so I don't see how it lacked the consistancy of a single generation). So the coherency was there, just as it was in a G1 Cartoon. The only negatives was some of the corny stuff (which I didn't find offensive, more dorky) like Devestators balls. But it's not that they ruin it, it's just a little much. I think if you rewatched it without some of the dorky stuff, you'd like it a lot better. I can see where some of the points against this movie come, but it's actually a great film for a TF fan and an action movie fan, especially if you laugh off (or in some cases ignore) the over the top stuff. And like I said, I've had a lot of people I know go see it twice who say they never go see a movie twice in a theater.

DreadwindsGhost wrote:Oh, and I never claimed I spoke for the whole world.

I claim to speak for the whole world on a regular basis.

It's endearing.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Fans who claim to like either of these films are simply settling, like in a bad relationship because you don't think you can get any better.

What an absoloutely wonderfully insulting generalisation.

And to be honest, I'm not even sure if they're even fans of what used to be called "Transformers," as much as they're fans of female exploitation, casual racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism.

Don't question my status as a fan of this franchise.

The people who somehow liked this film, got a bucket of eye candy and can't discern between a sugar high and a decent product, sorta like the movie toys.

Yeah so basically we've yet to "evolve intelligence"? Whatever.

I don't get why some movie haters simply cannot accept that people liked the movie.

None of your arguments have done a bit to change my mind- since all of them rely on you being okay with aspects of our culture that I find offensive and shameful.

Convince YOU? Oh please, you hated the first movie before it came out. No one has a chance of convincing you of anything because you've made it clear over the last few years that you're not open to changing your mind.

I hope tons of people are reading this site because of Ebert, so they can see what kind of mentality made this film a success, and to see our community put its best face forward.

I also hope they see YOUR kind of mentality that feels they can sit behind their computers insulting the intelligence of others simply because they have an opinion that differs from yours.

I really can't wait for the hype of this movie dies down and you disappear back into the internet hole you crawled into after the hype of the first movie died down.

GetterDragun wrote:How? We got lots of robots transforming, looking cool, fighting, a proper Megatron and Starscream relationship, Soundwave, Cullen and Welker, Devastator, Pretenders, crap, even Wheelie!

Not that I think there wasn't enough G1 in the cartoon, but some of this argument is threadbare. Sure, we got Cullen, Megatron, Starscream, Welker, and a few others. But saying those characters were G1 Soundwave and G1 Wheelie is like saying that was G1 Skids. The Pretender I'll give a pass to, but it had more in common with a TX than a G1 Pretender.

Ravage, however, was handled awesomely, and Starscream was handled tons better than in the first. The Megatron/Starscream relationship was spot on.

Shadowman wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:female exploitation

Arcee

Why is having a female character in the cartoon considered female exploitation? It's not like Arcee took her skirt off. If anything, the Fembots from the second season were more exploitation since at least Arcee had an identity other than Optimus' or Ironhide's girlfriend, but even they weren't female exploitation.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Man, if we are really going to go for the opinion thing here- then this is what I think.

Fans who claim to like either of these films are simply settling, like in a bad relationship because you don't think you can get any better.

And to be honest, I'm not even sure if they're even fans of what used to be called "Transformers," as much as they're fans of female exploitation, casual racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism.

The people who somehow liked this film, got a bucket of eye candy and can't discern between a sugar high and a decent product, sorta like the movie toys.

None of your arguments have done a bit to change my mind- since all of them rely on you being okay with aspects of our culture that I find offensive and shameful.

I hope tons of people are reading this site because of Ebert, so they can see what kind of mentality made this film a success, and to see our community put its best face forward.

Do you realize that a lot of people really don't care what you think?

Why do people like a certain color? Noone knows. You seem to really think you are right, so that is fine. As stated millions of times, you have your opinion. Now you need to let others have their opinions.

You aren't just stating an opinion; you are expressing your points in a manner that basicly tells everyone they are wrong. That's ok too. We think you are wrong as well. I had fun watching Starship Troopers.........so what? It's a movie. It was pretty far from Masterpiece material, but it was fun. Also, if you want something different, then get out there and make it happen. Get into the business or whatever you have to do. Don't sit around bitching about it to a bunch of people who really have absolutely no control over it! Even if EVERY TF fan in the country or world boycotts a movie like this, it is still going to be a blockbuster. So, since it is a mainstream franchise now, am I supposed to sit here and not watch the movie (which I guess I am just too stupid not to like), not see things that I think are interesting and fun, and STILL NOT MAKE A DENT IN THE FINANCIAL BOTTOM LINE OF THIS MOVIE? Give me a break. I wanted to see it, so I went to see it. I liked it after I saw it. I like the toys that I have chosen to purchase.

List all the stuff in your life that you like to do. Seriously, what do you like to do besides TF stuff? Maybe we can then see what you do that WE disagree with. I'm sure you aren't quite as righteous as you are trying to have everyone believe.

SoooTrypticon wrote:so I'm happy to say that I've contributed nothing

Firmly established.

Now work towards making any future points you'd like to contribute without attempting to demean or portray those who enjoyed the film in a negative manner.

I am entirely serious when I say that the next person who drops the 'You aren't a real fan' argument is going straight to the corner for an infraction.

Friggen ridiculous that some of these points can be made in a more civil, less flame bait-ish manner.

You know, I keep repeating to myself the line Simmons had in the movie:

"ONE man. Betrayed by his country......"

Just the delivery of that line was funny enough, but then Simmons says it again with Leo in the car, prompting a response of something along the lines of "You're not even alone, I'm in the car!"

Aaahh....and now I cannot stop myself from just randomly blurting the line out while I'm at work.....



Granted, this has nothing to do with the current conversation, but what even really is the current conversation?


"ONE Man......"

No Death for Prowl wrote:"ONE Man......"

"Single handedly turns a thread filled with flaming into something funny".

Well done dude.

SoooTrypticon wrote:None of your arguments have done a bit to change my mind- since all of them rely on you being okay with aspects of our culture that I find offensive and shameful.

That comment would carry a lot more weight to me had you not just sung the praises of a movie that even my friends who are fans of the Bruno character (and his other work) left the movie theater being seriously repulsed at. I could elaborate on the content of the film, except that describing 95% of the movie in detail would result in me getting a warning from a moderator. No folks, I am not kidding.

SoooTrypticon, I do value what you had to say and you did make some very good points earlier, some of them very calmly while others were being morons.

However, I think right now at the moment the angry feelings that ROTF has stirred up in you (for whatever reason) are getting the better of you. That doesn't mean I don't value what you have to say on the movie or any other TF topic, but it's hard to have a good discussion with anyone about anything when anger seems to be overwhelming the discussion. We could be talking about anything from politics to sports.

PS - Admitting that you didn't pay to see the movie (unless a friend bought you a ticket or something) isn't a good move because Seibertron.com heavily discourages illegal/pirated copies of things like movies/CD's, etc.

Well, clearly you do care what I think or I wouldn't get so many replies to posts trying to defend a love for racist caricatures and shoddy story telling.

Secondly, I think my first post regarding this ugly little film was about its relationship to Carbombia and how we haven't had something so ugly enter the franchise until now.

Last. I only "climb out of my internet hole" (how cute) to talk about this film, because generally there's little for me to contribute (pull that one out of context too, please) aside from a "that's neat" type of comment. Example, those new Sharkticons are awesome. Not much more to report there.

What I don't get, and never will, is why people are willing to settle for this, when all the other big franchises are trying so hard.

So much better stuff is being made, and we get robot pee and dog humping.

Anyhow- the one consolation I can take from this- is once more, aside from monetary gains, this film will be rewarded in only the smallest ways.

I guarantee it will be forgotten once Avatar comes out, which also features robots and aliens and cool stuff blowing up- but also has a great cast, a strong director, and without even seeing the film yet, a better script (how can it get worse?).

Come award time everyone will be talking about how ground breaking Avatar was, and Transformers will be all but forgotten.

Until the Third one comes out, featuring Step and Fetchit, a replacement for Megan Fox, and that Nerdy guy as the main character...

SoooTrypticon wrote:Last. I only "climb out of my internet hole" (how cute) to talk about this film, because generally there's little for me to contribute (pull that one out of context too, please) aside from a "that's neat" type of comment. Example, those new Sharkticons are awesome. Not much more to report there.

But that's just the thing, these forums are filled with various discussions but the only time you bother to post is in relation to the movies.

And then you have the audacity to question whether a person is a fan just because they like the movie.

Care to pop into the cartoon forum and tell us your opinion on Animated? It's only recently finished and people are still discussing it.

Or maybe the Spotlight:Metroplex comic discussion?

What I don't get, and never will, is why people are willing to settle for this, when all the other big franchises are trying so hard.

Because we like it. You don't. It really is that simple.

What I don't get is why you feel the need to insult people who do like the movies. You did it the first time around, and you're doing it again. Why is that?

Delicon, in regards to the Bruno material- that was my point. If people love the dog humping in this film- then they will simply adore the hijinks to be found in Bruno.

If it's okay to knock Transformers down to the lowest common denominator, then it's living right down there with Bruno. The big difference is that as an insulting comedy full of gross out humor, Bruno outpaces Transformers.

Now if we were gonna compare Transformers to another science fiction film, like the latest Star Trek, well that's another matter...

Can someone here even begin to say that the characters in Transformers 2 were as well treated and fleshed out, as those in the new Star Trek?

There's a film based on a series that smacked of female exploitation and while I wouldn't say "American Jingoism" I'd certainly say American Imperialism, that still managed to avoid using Blackface as a comedy routine. Weird.

And I do thank you for the kind words- maybe I am coming from an "angry place" but its because I feel that this movie is really a hurtful and mean spirited thing, and it bothers me so many people like it.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Delicon, in regards to the Bruno material- that was my point. If people love the dog humping in this film- then they will simply adore the hijinks to be found in Bruno.

There is a major difference between "immature humor" which is what ROTF had and what Bruno brings to the table, simple as that. Again, the nature of this forum prevents me from elaborating much beyond that but if you truly have seen both films, I honestly shouldn't have to.

For the record, I could have lived without a lot of the "immature humor" in ROTF but they didn't put that in there for us, they put that in there for the teenage, young 20's mainstream they were also trying to attract. To have a truly successful movie, you have to put a little something in there for everyone, it's just how it goes.

SoooTrypticon wrote:And I do thank you for the kind words- maybe I am coming from an "angry place" but its because I feel that this movie is really a hurtful and mean spirited thing, and it bothers me so many people like it.

That's just it - if you get angry over everything in this world you feel is stupid that other people like pretty soon you're going to be a pretty unhappy person.

We were all made to like different things and that's human nature.