The Energon Pub

SoooTrypticon wrote:but I will do my best to change their minds using history and maths. Or maybe just poking at your conscience and conjuring up crying grandmothers going "Why Burny, why? Think of the Egyptians."

Why are you so intent to convince others to think like you?

Why is it so hard for you to just accept that people think differently from you?

You sit there harping on about racism, yet by your own words, you're out to make people think like you.

GetterDragun wrote:The movie needs the sterotypical American to work. I can imagine the New Zealand version, they'd have Crop Dusters and Kayaks attacking the Decepticons and driving around in silly cars like Holdens and Vauxhalls.

You do realise that Bumblebee is one of those "silly Holden cars" right?
Well part of him at least. Though I thought the Camaro was going to see a Australian release through Holden but that has yet to eventuate.

SoooTrypticon wrote:And someone already made a kids film like Titanic, it was called The Dark Knight.

I'm not sure if you saw The Dark Knight, but it was a kids movie in the same way Silence of the Lambs was a kids movie.

SoooTrypticon wrote:The whole Skidz and Mudflap are “only racist if you are” debate doesn't work.

Yes it does.

SoooTrypticon wrote:It's the “bulgy eyes,” “big lips,” “big ears,” and “buck teeth” aspects that lock them firmly in old American racism. For any race, to be honest. Look at how immigrants were portrayed in cartoons in the 20's.

First off, that you're associating two robots with racial stereotypes from over 80 years ago doesn't really prove much, especially when anyone can look like that. Second, Bay has already admitted that Skids and Mudflap are supposed to be parodies of those white kids who think they're black, like Malibu's Most Wanted. So unless you have some way of proving Bay is lying...

Shadowman wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:The whole Skidz and Mudflap are “only racist if you are” debate doesn't work.

Yes it does.

I agree, saying this movie is racist is like calling a person racist because he has a a barbecue with friends and offers his friends a piece of watermelon, but someone only sees him offer it to a black friend and raises a fuss about it (again, neglecting to acknowledge the fact that the person had a barbecue with mulitcultures, completely ignoring stereotypes). That's the problem with this argument if someone of a culture is involved with something related to their stereotype people will claim racism. Basically my point of view is that the person pointing out racism is doing so because their qualifications for what make a stereotype for a particular culture has been fulfilled. Talk about narrow minded.

SoooTrypticon wrote:This is why I'm calling racist caricature on them, as they don't fit in with the rest of the movie design-wise.

I didn't see them as stereotypes, but I can understand why some would. Even in the movie, I wasn't offended by them, but knew in the back of my mind that someone could see them as offensive. It was more the street talk that tipped me off than the goofy looks. I didn't want them to be in the movie, but I found them about as offensive as I found Wheelie in the 86 movie: they were just annoying. Could have just replace them with Bubbatron and Big Heavy Thing.

Hmmm. Come to think of it, if Michael Bay is listening, he's free to use any of the Ineptibots for TF3 that he wants.

Burn wrote:Don't be so modest, Counterpunch knows you too! That just doubles your prestige points!

But zero times two is still zero.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:This is why I'm calling racist caricature on them, as they don't fit in with the rest of the movie design-wise.

I didn't see them as stereotypes, but I can understand why some would. Even in the movie, I wasn't offended by them, but knew in the back of my mind that someone could see them as offensive. It was more the street talk that tipped me off than the goofy looks. I didn't want them to be in the movie, but I found them about as offensive as I found Wheelie in the 86 movie: they were just annoying. Could have just replace them with Bubbatron and Big Heavy Thing.

I actually thought they were awesome. It's the exact same thing with Frenzy in the first movie; I think he looks ugly as sin, then he ends up being the best of the bunch.

Shadowman wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:racist caricatures

The thing about Skids and Mudflap is that it's only racist if you are.

Jesus, what did you put a quarter in the opinion machine and pop it outta the plastic egg? Cause OBVIOUSLY it's mutually exclusive that if you see something you think might be racially intensive that that automatically makes you a racist...

I'm not really on the whole racial crusade as the majority of the rest of the film deserve more hate-energy than that, but these bumper sticker answers that do nothing to absolve the point is a bit trying...

NotevenLMAO @ Frenzy being the best...

Me, Grimlock! wrote:

Burn wrote:Don't be so modest, Counterpunch knows you too! That just doubles your prestige points!

But zero times two is still zero.

You're using real world maths. Use internet maths. 0x0=infinity+1

Shadowman wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:And to be honest, I'm not even sure if they're even fans of what used to be called "Transformers," as much as they're fans of female exploitation, casual racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism.

So I can't like both the movies and the rest of the franchise?

EDIT: I had a thought:

SoooTrypticon wrote:female exploitation

Arcee

SoooTrypticon wrote:casual racism

Carbombya

SoooTrypticon wrote:witless humor

Wheelie

SoooTrypticon wrote:and American Jingoism.

Carbombya again

The series was animated in Japan. The entire series was based upon the line of transforming toys originally created by Japanese toy manufacturer Takara, which were developed into the Transformers line by Hasbro.

Wheelie was made mainly to appeal to your little annoying brother who didn't grow out of Sesame Street yet.
Arcee well she was cool in the movie but she kinda became weak in the headmasters where she was nothing more than Rodimus Prime's Administrative Assitant.

Japan and the US had in the 80's had a differnt perpective of robots and the world. and about that episode accroding to wiki "In "Thief In The Night", the character Abdul Fakkadi was introduced as the "Supreme Military Dictator, King of Kings, and President for Life of the Socialist Democratic Federated Republic of Carbombya." This was an obvious play on tensions between the United States and Libya. Fakkadi's name is a near anagram of Libyan President Moammar Kadaffi's name. Casey Kasem, who voiced the character Cliffjumper and the Autobots' computer Teletraan I and who is of Lebanese descent, objected to the parody, and quit the show when it was not removed from the episode. Cliffjumper, despite having survived the movie, was phased out as of that episode, and Teletraan I was destroyed with the Ark in the episode "Five Faces of Darkness (Part 5).""

Look Looney tunes had some episodes that were racist. But in the past we didn't know any better. And Micheal Bay being a grown educated man he is (oh God I hope so...) should have realized that time and money spent on thease twins could have spent on Bumblebee and the rest. As someone who writes herself you gotta beable to look at your own charectors and not see them as the most fantastic thing ever and remember KISS Keep It Simple Stupid That lesson took me a while to learn.

Hehe! my dragons are so cool!

wingdarkness wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

SoooTrypticon wrote:racist caricatures

The thing about Skids and Mudflap is that it's only racist if you are.

Jesus, what did you put a quarter in the opinion machine and pop it outta the plastic egg? Cause OBVIOUSLY it's mutually exclusive that if you see something you think might be racially intensive that that automatically makes you a racist...

I'm not really on the whole racial crusade as the majority of the rest of the film deserve more hate-energy than that, but these bumper sticker answers that do nothing to absolve the point is a bit trying...

First off, what's up with having one word in red?

Second, like I said, it's only racist if you are. Big ears, eyes and teeth, one of which is gold, doesn't make someone black, nor does acting the way the twins did. To associate that with a specific race, however, is racist.

wingdarkness wrote:NotevenLMAO @ Frenzy being the best...

What's so wrong with that? He was one of the most competent Decepticons, delved into the occasional physical comedy, and shot ninja star CDs out of his chest. It's my opinion, don't bash it.

Shadowman wrote:I actually thought they were awesome. It's the exact same thing with Frenzy in the first movie; I think he looks ugly as sin, then he ends up being the best of the bunch.

How's that working out for you?

Seriously, though, what did you find awesome? Or is it just one of those indefinable "I liked them just because I liked them" things?

I just couldn't get into them. They didn't offend me, but I couldn't get past the kid factor in them. I actually thought they were cool while they were an ice cream truck and then when they were fighting over who got to be what colour. The sibling rivalry worked for them. After that, though, ehhhhhhhh... I couldn't see them as anything more than this decade's Jar Jar Binks. (Oddly enough, Jar Jar Binks didn't annoy me much about Episode 1. Jake Lloyd, however.... heheh.)

Burn wrote:You're using real world maths. Use internet maths. 0x0=infinity+1

oooOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHhhhhhhhh......



So 61?

My goodness, I go out for a day and look what happens, back to accepting racist stereotypes as entertainment and saying it's okay because the stereotypes are old- and thus can't possibly be hanging around anymore. I mean, 80 years is so long ago. And since you're not aware of them, then you can't possibly be passing tacit approval.

Everything has changed since the "olden days." Just go walk down the street and proclaim that racism is over.

Do it.

Go walk down the street, imitating those characters- and tell people that you aren't being racist, just funny. Wear some big lips and gold teeth. Try some big ears and bulgy eyes. Recite the lines to perfect strangers. Bring a friend and brawl with them while calling strangers "pussies."

Do it, survive, and I'll believe that those characters aren't offensive.

Next, go tell a girl that you only enjoy her for her body.

After that, go tell an Egyptian citizen that nothing in the last act of the film is all that troubling.

Lastly, stop some random little kid, and tell them how much you laughed at dogs humping, pot brownies, jock straps, and giant metal testicles. If that comes off as weird, then it should- because the movie is directed at them too.

Bonus points to stop a little girl and tell her that you only count her worthy of your time if she grows up to look like Megan Fox.

You get a new car if the little girl is your daughter...



If for a single moment there- you felt a shrinking feeling in your gut, then you know I'm right.

I'd say I'm shocked- but instead I'll just stand by an earlier statement.

If you're a fan of female objectification, racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism then you're a fan of Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen.

To argue that racism isn't racism until it affects you, is a big step away from "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."

Well you said you were out to get people to agree with you, so guess what, I agree with you!

I am a fan of female objectification, racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism then you're a fan of Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen.
(If anyone takes offense to that then I suggest you go grow a funny bone and learn how to detect sarcasm, oh and while you're at it, make an effort to get to know me before judging me from one line you read on the interwebs)

SoooTrypticon wrote:Go walk down the street, imitating those characters- and tell people that you aren't being racist, just funny. Wear some big lips and gold teeth. Try some big ears and bulgy eyes. Recite the lines to perfect strangers. Bring a friend and brawl with them while calling strangers "pussies."

Do it, survive, and I'll believe that those characters aren't offensive.

1. We DO have people who walk around doing that over in the UK. We call them 'chavs'.

2. Where in the movie is ANYONE suggesting that anyone should act that way? They're not, are they? Is the movie setting itself up as a blueprint on how to live and act? No, of course it isn't. It's a movie. For entertainment.

This whole thing about Skids and Mudflap is completely and utterly ridiculous, now. People will always see what they want to see in anything, that's a fact of life. But for anyone to take as much offence as they seem to have regarding these two non-characters, is quite frankly, a farce. They are kiddie-appeal characters, who talk a certain way that is supposed to appeal to the youngins of today. That speech pattern just happens to be what is currently recognised as 'street'. Ten years ago, it would have been 'surfer dude speak' a la TMNT. Ten years before, more than likely it would have been punk or something. That's all it is. It's not a dig at blacks, or any other race. It's a gimmick to appeal to what the youth of today is supposed to be into.

Their looks? Well it wasn't so long ago that people thought they looked like 'hicks', so where all this 'O NOEZ BLACKFACE' stuff is coming from, I wouldn't like to say. Personally, I recognised them as atypical white kids trying to act 'gangsta' because they think it makes them look tough, when in fact, they just look like dweebs.

Sure, there's racial stereotyping in the movie (as regards the last third of the movie), but I'll tell you something. If ANYONE has a right to bitch and whine about their people being stereotyped by Hollywood, it's the Brits. In a good portion of US movies, the bad guys are either British, or speak with British accents. Why? Because the US sees us as sinister, perhaps? Because even after 200 years, we're still considered the bad guys by the US? Whatever the reason, who cares? 9 times out of 10 we're freaking awesome at it, and it's funny, damnit. There's always evil lurking in the shadows if you actively look for it. This sudden need to stamp perceived racism out of Transformers is quite sinister, if you ask me.

What next? The disabled claiming that lack of a Chip Chase style character in the movies is evidence of a plot by Bay to rag on wheelchair users? (And before I get an angry non-wheelchair using mob attacking me - my missus suggested that one, and she IS a wheelchair user).

Oh and addendum - I really don't see how aggravating and inciting racial hatred just on someone's say-so will prove anything about how good or bad the movie is. Do it, survive, indeed.

SoooTrypticon wrote:If for a single moment there- you felt a shrinking feeling in your gut, then you know I'm right.

I'd say I'm shocked- but instead I'll just stand by an earlier statement.

If you're a fan of female objectification, racism, witless humor, and American Jingoism then you're a fan of Transformers 2: Revenge of the Fallen.

You are not right.

You are over-reacting, hacking down straw-men, and falling into the tried and tired trap of 'Oh Lordy...think of the children'.

The racism isn't there. I could go on some silly tangent claiming how, "Black friends of mine didn't think there was any problem, so obviously there isn't." But that's stupid and ultimately not verifiable. So, unless you're African American, please stand back and let the potentially affected group speak for themselves.

As much as you want to get defensive and claim objectification of women, Mikeala was a genuinely strong female character who was important to the progression of the story. She was easily more than token arm candy and after her initial centerfold shot at the beginning of the film, was dressed relatively conservatively.

American jingoism? You have nothing here, not one leg to stand on.

The only thing I would be scared of is to have so low of an understanding of the implications of a science-fiction film about robotic intergalactic civil war, that I would be unable to teach my child the difference between right and wrong on those premises.

Me, Grimlock! wrote:

Shadowman wrote:I actually thought they were awesome. It's the exact same thing with Frenzy in the first movie; I think he looks ugly as sin, then he ends up being the best of the bunch.

How's that working out for you?

Seriously, though, what did you find awesome? Or is it just one of those indefinable "I liked them just because I liked them" things?

I just couldn't get into them. They didn't offend me, but I couldn't get past the kid factor in them. I actually thought they were cool while they were an ice cream truck and then when they were fighting over who got to be what colour. The sibling rivalry worked for them. After that, though, ehhhhhhhh... I couldn't see them as anything more than this decade's Jar Jar Binks. (Oddly enough, Jar Jar Binks didn't annoy me much about Episode 1. Jake Lloyd, however.... heheh.)

I dunno. I may have "just liked them because I liked them." They were the comic relief Autobots (Counting Wheelie as a Decepticon, and, actually, the first time I've ever liked Wheelie) and they pulled it off. I think it may be all the smack-talk. "It's supposed to hurt, it's an ass-whuppin'." That sounds like something I'd say.

As for Mikaela, she decapitated Frenzy, helped Bumblebee take down Brawl, tamed Wheelie, and crushed Alice. She did more than a lot of human characters.

Shadowman wrote:I dunno. I may have "just liked them because I liked them." They were the comic relief Autobots (Counting Wheelie as a Decepticon, and, actually, the first time I've ever liked Wheelie) and they pulled it off. I think it may be all the smack-talk. "It's supposed to hurt, it's an ass-whuppin'." That sounds like something I'd say.

Huh. Yeah, I can see that. They had some cool one-liners every so often. For me, I don't really know if there was one thing I can point out that made me not get into them (well, except maybe the kid factor), but I guess the opposite was for me. I just "didn't like them because I didn't like them." I felt they took up screen time that could have gone to some of the vastly underused characters such as Ironhide, Ratchet, or Arcee, or to someone else who deserved to be in the movie but wasn't (Prowl, Wheeljack, etc.).

I guess it's just some people will respond to some characters and some people won't. For me, I like Bumblebee, but I know there are people out there that just despise him. In the movie, I really liked Ravage but not so much Soundwave, but for someone else it might be the opposite.

SoooTrypticon wrote:Lastly, stop some random little kid, and tell them how much you laughed at dogs humping, pot brownies, jock straps, and giant metal testicles. If that comes off as weird, then it should- because the movie is directed at them too.

I've been silent on the main debate here, but I feel I have to jump in. I don't see what this has to do with racism, sexism, or the point you're trying to make. What does stopping some kid and telling them you laughed at pot brownies have to do with anything? Besides, it wasn't the pot brownies that people laughed at; it was how clueless the mother was about them and then her behaviour after she ate one. I don't even really know what you're attacking here. Bathroom humour?

Recite the lines to perfect strangers. Bring a friend and brawl with them while calling strangers "pussies."

Then you'd be using lines from the movie out of context. Stop anyone and say "I want you to hit me as hard as you can" and you'll get a different reaction than from someone who knew you were talking about Fight Club. I could stop someone randomly and say "Where we're going, you won't need eyes to see" and they'll still find something wrong. And I hardly think brawling while calling strangers "pussies" proves TF2 is the fall of morality. That kind of thing isn't acceptible no matter what the context. But then I invite you to find a movie where all characters behave totally moral.

Bonus points to stop a little girl and tell her that you only count her worthy of your time if she grows up to look like Megan Fox.

You get a new car if the little girl is your daughter...

I don't even know where to begin with this. First of all, if you're condeming the movie based partially on female objectivism, you've got much bigger fish to fry.

Second, where did having shots of Megan Fox suddenly turn into me telling my daughter she's not worth my time? Now we're not allowed to enjoy movies because we won't properly love our children? I didn't enjoy the movie, but I hardly come down on someone who liked it because Megan Fox had some money shots. By that token, no one is allowed to enjoy the Matrix because of Trinity's form-fitting outfits or the dessert scene at the Merovingian's restaurant. Or any episode of Married With Children. Or even Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Please. I hardly believe we're casting aside our children because of some camera shots in a movie.

Shadowman wrote:First off, what's up with having one word in red?

Just my calling card as it were…It’s how I post on most of my member sites…I usually use it to showcase the most important word or phrase in any debate post…I also tend to use red-avatars but my Starscream avy from 2007 seems to have vanished in my absence…

Second, like I said, it's only racist if you are. Big ears, eyes and teeth, one of which is gold, doesn't make someone black, nor does acting the way the twins did. To associate that with a specific race, however, is racist.

No a racist is someone who has prejudice against someone because of their race…A racist IS NOT someone who looks at something based on some reasonable common sense and determines what they saw might be “racist” or racially insensitive…

Again the twins didn’t piss me off that much as my brain was already on mush-status from everything else by the time they really got rolling….However if you saw 2 Ebonics-talking robots with gold-teeth talking slang ‘bout “they don’t be readin’” or whatever, yeah I can understand why some would be offended….Me not so much as the Twins were barely the cherry on top of this hot-garbage…Perhaps a sprinkle or two, but finding them racially insensitive if not intolerant isn’t something you have to be a racist to have a viewpoint on…

What's so wrong with that? He was one of the most competent Decepticons, delved into the occasional physical comedy, and shot ninja star CDs out of his chest. It's my opinion, don't bash it.

Well, the one thing that was always cool or special about the little Transformers is that they had personalities…You how Rumble and his brother would talk to the other BIG robots like they were the $hit? Frenzy was just a soulless TF-into-anything irritant….Why not TF into a tape-dispense or a pair of scissors too while you’re at it? (It’s just pure game-cheat) He was just devoid of any personality for me and really not reminiscent of any of the the smaller TFs that I used to love…I actually thought for a second I might like “Wheelie” until he transformed and showed us yet another wonderful $hitty Bayformer face…

I actually bought my son a Bayformer at Target last week (Yeah I’m such a bad dad), and once I decided which one wouldn’t scare him half to death on face alone, I saw that other than Prime and Bumblebee they’re all pretty fugly…Within this set Frenzy was pretty ugly in overall design aswell…

wingdarkness wrote:Frenzy was just a soulless TF-into-anything irritant….Why not TF into a tape-dispense or a pair of scissors too while you’re at it?

Yeah, only the worst TFs turn into boom boxes...

wingdarkness wrote:He was just devoid of any personality for me

So did you only listen to the movie? Look at the way he moves, how he twitches and moves like he's Secret Agent Crackhead. And the way he speaks cements that. (Even in just Cybertronian, he still speaks it much faster than anyone else) And it's not like he didn't do anything, he located the AllSpark, freed Megatron, and racked up more kills than most of the Decepticons. He's the hilarious little hyperactive ball of death and razor-wire.

Shadowman wrote:
Yeah, only the worst TFs turn into boom boxes...

Oh good one, another bumper sticker I presume…

You think I’m devoid of somehow understanding what physical comedy is? Frenzy was just overall plot hax wakness is all…If you were all “Man Frenzy’s kewl” I might give you an awkward eye, but he doesn’t set me off or anything…

So did you only listen to the movie? Look at the way he moves, how he twitches and moves like he's Secret Agent Crackhead. And the way he speaks cements that. (Even in just Cybertronian, he still speaks it much faster than anyone else) And it's not like he didn't do anything, he located the AllSpark, freed Megatron, and racked up more kills than most of the Decepticons. He's the hilarious little hyperactive ball of death and razor-wire.

Dude seriously if you were that impressed by Frenzy that is what it is, but just some bot flailing around TFing into everything from a cellphone to an actual boom-box (which is funny since you tried to own with that when your guy Tfs into one aswell) just didn’t remind me of anything I loved from TFs…As for all he did, see “plot haxness”….

And I guess we'll just skip the racial-debate part of this program...I'm good with that though...

wingdarkness wrote:

Shadowman wrote:Yeah, only the worst TFs turn into boom boxes...

Oh good one, another bumper sticker I presume…

I prefer the term "sarcasm." But I guess bumper sticker works. Though I'm not sure of anyone who would own a bumper sticker that says that, nor am I certain we have the same definition of "bumper sticker."

wingdarkness wrote:Dude seriously if you were that impressed by Frenzy that is what it is, but just some bot flailing around TFing into everything from a cellphone to an actual boom-box (which is funny since you tried to own with that when your guy Tfs into one aswell) just didn’t remind me of anything I loved from TFs…As for all he did, see “plot haxness”….

...What?

EDIT: As for seeing mountains from the Smithsonian, Washington DC is right near the edge of the Appalachian Mountains. It's kind of a stretch, but still.

@ Shadowman - Well given your “Random Nonsense” state of mind I didn’t think you’d object to some of your more random opinions being used as a bumper…

Additionally, I believe Frenzy turned into a CD player or radio in the first movie at some point; if so I was relating that to your boom-box diss as if that’s what’s really at play here (My desperate need to have a G1 something bot instead of Frenzy just being an indulgent-irritant that doesn’t have much to do with TF)…

EDIT: As for seeing mountains from the Smithsonian, Washington DC is right near the edge of the Appalachian Mountains. It's kind of a stretch, but still….

Oh I’m sure that was on Bay’s mind since we all know he’s a nuanced and detailed-oriented sort of guy when it comes to directing…Now that’s sarcasm…

wingdarkness wrote:Additionally, I believe Frenzy turned into a CD player or radio in the first movie at some point; if so I was relating that to your boom-box diss as if that’s what’s really at play here

Yes, he started as a boombox. He reformatted into a cell phone because he a) didn't have the mass to turn into anything larger and b) needed to keep close to Sam.

Speaking of, my boom box "diss" was referencing Soundwave, who happens to be quite popular.

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:Additionally, I believe Frenzy turned into a CD player or radio in the first movie at some point; if so I was relating that to your boom-box diss as if that’s what’s really at play here

Yes, he started as a boombox. He reformatted into a cell phone because he a) didn't have the mass to turn into anything larger and b) needed to keep close to Sam.

Speaking of, my boom box "diss" was referencing Soundwave, who happens to be quite popular.

I didn't hate Frenzy. He was twitchy and crazy, but you can't really hate him because we have the Dinobots who are dumber than dirt. I just thought he was butt ugly and his character design sucked, like all of the other Transformers in the movie.

Shadowman wrote:

wingdarkness wrote:Additionally, I believe Frenzy turned into a CD player or radio in the first movie at some point; if so I was relating that to your boom-box diss as if that’s what’s really at play here

Yes, he started as a boombox. He reformatted into a cell phone because he a) didn't have the mass to turn into anything larger and b) needed to keep close to Sam.

Speaking of, my boom box "diss" was referencing Soundwave, who happens to be quite popular.

That’s the whole thing, there we no TF’s like Frenzy I can remember (Especially in design)…I’m not gonna go all geewunner on you as there might be some obscure example somewhere in the pantheon of TF lore that relates to Frenzy, but in the spirit of TFs, he seemed overkill….But it’s much like this entire franchise, just random $hit that Bay wants to pass off as TF lore (like ALL the liquid aluminum looking stuff in these movies)…

Also preface this and don’t have a heart-attack because I actually liked Soundwave and found his inclusion creative with “ejecting” the missles and all….One of the 3-fingers’ full of stuff I enjoyed on this film…Would I have enjoyed a straight up TFing boombox instead of what I ultimately got? Hmmm maybe, maybe not…Guess we’ll never know…

wingdarkness wrote:But it’s much like this entire franchise, just random $hit that Bay wants to pass off as TF lore (like ALL the liquid aluminum looking stuff in these movies)…

That quote right there pretty sums up everything I feel about the movie franchise. I didn't like it the moment Bay said that giving them human features doesn't make sense because their aliens and it's not realistic. Transforming robots with feelings don't make sense and is not realistic. That comment there was a cop out. An excuse to take the franchise and run with it however he felt. Add a few Transformers tidbits here and there, and pass it off as his version.