The Energon Pub

chaosmage42 wrote:as ive said i don't think they were originally going to be the same -whats happened is they both are form the same source matterial -the bible of this stuff-

The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

chaosmage42 wrote:and thats why they have enough similaries that morons at the top think they can smash them together but they are different enough that the flaws are obvious.

The reason they have their differences is because Hasbro willfully chose to let each party do their own thing with little regard to what others were doing. To Hasbro, "continuity" doesn't mean "making everything fit together neatly", but rather "an avoidance of contradiction". It ought to mean the former, but their lax viewpoint is really the latter.

chaosmage42 wrote:For example the starscream in primes is survila and doesn't directly oppose megatron he tries to steal command. the cybertron starscream actally directly opposes megatron tries to get an army to fight him and even orders his death to his face. Overall their different people.

You do realize that people can change over the course of thousands of years, right? Or do you today act exactly the same way as you did when you were a toddler? I sincerely hope you don't.

chaosmage42 wrote:Also in the primes premier he is shocked megatron found dark energon and put it into his spark chamber but he already would have had it accourding to the game plus starscream of the game guarded the stuff -i don't think he would be that surprised if it had been used in their war.

How do you know Megatron still has Dark Energon inside himself from the games by the time of TF: Prime, huh? How do you know he didn't run out of the stuff after thousands of years had passed?

And why is it wrong for Starscream to have been surprised that Megatron found Dark Energon in a sector of the universe that had, for all intents and purposes, not been known to contain Dark Energon until then, especially when the last known time they had access to the stuff was before they left Cybertron thousands of years ago?

I'd be surprised too if I found something today that I used to have back when I was 4 if I hadn't seen it since then due to its relative scarcity in this day and age.

chaosmage42 wrote:Also unicron of the primes series was trying to poison cybertrons core with dark energon -thats what megatron did in the game.

"Destroy" =/= "poison". He was gonna physically kill Primus inside the Core. All Megatron did in the game was infect the Core itself, without killing the slumbering Primus inside.

chaosmage42 wrote:like i said i just don't think they were originally part of one another and we shouldn't treat them as such -i know there was the beast hunter comic but i still say it doesn't match up with the actual events.

Whether they were intended or not is superfluous at this point, since so much more fiction that's been released since has patched up a ton of the continuity issues between the two.

Chaosmage42@ facts are facts. Prime, the Cybertron games, the new cartoon series, the novels, the beast hunter comics. All in one timeline. You may like it, and you might make a personal canon where they are not connected, but facts are facts.

im pointing out that it may be offical but its not correct -remember when they combined cybertron into the armada energon mess -they added something saying any errors were because of the black hole -personally i didn't like it i felt it would have been better if it was its own series -yes have unicron being defeated create the black hole but the rest of the plot holes don't make sense which is what we have here -several things unrelated to each other rammed together because marketing says so -im saying their not and its more likely the actual case -plus i don't know if it will hold for much longer the cybertron games are really popular i don't see how they will be making another one set after fall if they don't remove it form the prime continuity=also its not exactly like you can remove energon form a bot without killing them -also the personalities -also megatron's ship in primes becomes alive -if it was actually connected to the games it would have been alive to begin with as its trypticon -like i said there are tons of plot holes -like the omega keys in prime operate the omega lock in cybertron games its omega supreme who accesses the core -which is another thing the cores seals in the game and right down the well of all sparks in the other-it makes no sense.

Sabrblade wrote:The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

do you mind breaking down what you mean by this

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

do you mind breaking down what you mean by this

The Binder of Revelation is the core component of the Aligned Continuity, and is the source from which both WFC and Prime were derived. As both were products of the Binder's specific content, the two are connected by their each portraying the events from specific timeperiods within the timeline of the continuity created by the Binder.

chaosmage42 wrote:im pointing out that it may be offical but its not correct -remember when they combined cybertron into the armada energon mess -they added something saying any errors were because of the black hole -personally i didn't like it i felt it would have been better if it was its own series -yes have unicron being defeated create the black hole but the rest of the plot holes don't make sense which is what we have here -several things unrelated to each other rammed together because marketing says so

You do realize that TF: Cybertron was always intended to be the sequel to Energon, right? It was the fault of GONZO for not adhering to the original plans and rewriting it to be its own series at first, before Hasbro stepped up to the plate and tried to mend the changes GONZO committed.

Plus, several things from both Armada and Energon appeared in the Cybertron cartoon, even in the original Galaxy Force version in Japan. Like, one episode shows a flashback that depicts debris from Unicron's corpse floating in space. And another episode has Alexis appear in her Energon design on TV with Colonel Franklin and the President. And the Street Action Mini-Con Team appears on murals of the Giant Planet. Again, these were all even in the original Japanese version.

chaosmage42 wrote:-im saying their not and its more likely the actual case -plus i don't know if it will hold for much longer the cybertron games are really popular i don't see how they will be making another one set after fall if they don't remove it form the prime continuity=

They chose to make "Rise of the Dark Spark" instead of making another game set after FOC.

chaosmage42 wrote:also its not exactly like you can remove energon form a bot without killing them

What does that have to do with anything?

chaosmage42 wrote:-also the personalities

...can change over time.

Look at Starscream in Prime, for instance. His personality changed in just two seasons.

chaosmage42 wrote:-also megatron's ship in primes becomes alive -if it was actually connected to the games it would have been alive to begin with as its trypticon

You are forgetting that the game showed Trypticon to no longer be alive when his corpse was reconfigured into the Nemesis.

And an interview with one of the Prime creators confirmed that the ship coming alive for an episode was indeed a reference to the ship being Trypticon.

chaosmage42 wrote:-like i said there are tons of plot holes -like the omega keys in prime operate the omega lock in cybertron games its omega supreme who accesses the core -which is another thing the cores seals in the game and right down the well of all sparks in the other-it makes no sense.

The game had the characters take a scenic route down to the Core. The game chose not to have them go down the Well to the Core for the sake of gameplay, as a straight drop down is not as fun as traversing the treacherous lower levels of the planet. Plus, nowhere in the game does is say that the Core can't be accessed from the Well. The game just chose to have the characters go the long way down for better gameplay enjoyment.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

do you mind breaking down what you mean by this

The Binder of Revelation is the core component of the Aligned Continuity, and is the source from which both WFC and Prime were derived. As both were products of the Binder's specific content, the two are connected by their each portraying the events from specific timeperiods within the timeline of the continuity created by the Binder.

wfc and prime , i'm not as well versed in
but is seems you are implying that they are 1 continuity only because they stem from the same source martial

if thats not what you ment, sorry.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

do you mind breaking down what you mean by this

The Binder of Revelation is the core component of the Aligned Continuity, and is the source from which both WFC and Prime were derived. As both were products of the Binder's specific content, the two are connected by their each portraying the events from specific timeperiods within the timeline of the continuity created by the Binder.

wfc and prime , i'm not as well versed in
but is seems you are implying that they are 1 continuity only because they stem from the same source martial

if thats not what you ment, sorry.

Read this - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Aligned_timeline

War for Cybertron, Exodus, Prime, Exiles, Rescue Bots, Fall of Cybertron, Rage of the Dinobots, Beast Hunters, The Covenant of Primus, Retribution, Rise of the Dark Spark, and so much are all part the Aligned continuity, all derived from the Binder of Revelation.

you realize that the novels are also full of errors and plot holes and also are in contradiction to the store already -im sorry no -this is not a single story across several media this is several different stories based on one base set of instructions it is not connected by any means. Read the summary of the exodus novel it is not anything like the games and their hunting the all spark not headed into a space bridge to earth its all one big mess.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:The fact that they came from the same source material is what puts them together.

do you mind breaking down what you mean by this

The Binder of Revelation is the core component of the Aligned Continuity, and is the source from which both WFC and Prime were derived. As both were products of the Binder's specific content, the two are connected by their each portraying the events from specific timeperiods within the timeline of the continuity created by the Binder.

wfc and prime , i'm not as well versed in
but is seems you are implying that they are 1 continuity only because they stem from the same source martial

if thats not what you ment, sorry.

Read this - http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Aligned_timeline

War for Cybertron, Exodus, Prime, Exiles, Rescue Bots, Fall of Cybertron, Rage of the Dinobots, Beast Hunters, The Covenant of Primus, Retribution, Rise of the Dark Spark, and so much are all part the Aligned continuity, all derived from the Binder of Revelation.

thank you but my question was more related to how you feel on the topic.

do you feel they are all 1 continuity just because they all have/are connected 1 source?

chaosmage42 wrote:the novels are also full of errors and plot holes

Examples, please.

chaosmage42 wrote:you realize that the novels are also full of errors and plot holes and also are in contradiction to the store already -im sorry no -this is not a single story across several media this is several different stories based on one base set of instructions it is not connected by any means. Read the summary of the exodus novel it is not anything like the games and their hunting the all spark not headed into a space bridge to earth its all one big mess.

I don't have to read the summary because I've read the book itself. Twice. And Exiles. And Retribution. And the Covenant of Primus.

You say that they didn't go through a space bridge at the end of Exodus, when that is exactly how that book ended. They may not have gone directly to Earth, but neither did that happen in FOC either. They went up to the portal and disappeared through it, with Optimus specifically calling out its instability, meaning that there's no telling where they ended up as far as the game is concerned. But thanks to other media, it is canonical FACT that they did not go straight to Earth right after the game.

You act as though contradictions and inconsistencies have never happened in TF fiction until now. The G1 cartoon itself, for example, was full of plenty of contradictions and inconsistencies, so if all the Aligned material cannot be one story simply because of some mistakes that you refuse to forgive for ill good reason, then by that logic the G1 cartoon must also be a bunch of unconnected stories because of all the errors and plot holes that that series had. You can't refuse one for one reason and then accept another for the same reason.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:thank you but my question was more related to how you feel on the topic.

do you feel they are all 1 continuity just because they all have/are connected 1 source?

More like I feel they are 1 continuity for the same reason as Armada, Energon, and Cybertron all are: That's the official canon. It matters not how I personally feel about them all being tied together, as I go by what's canonical.

just making it the offical line doesn't make it correct think about it in more than one way

chaosmage42 wrote:just making it the offical line doesn't make it correct think about it in more than one way

See, you're thinking of "correct" from a subjective, opinionated viewpoint, whereas I'm looking at it from an objective, fact-based viewpoint. I'm leaving my opinions out of this because they don't matter.

I don't like the errors and plot holes they keep coming up with each time they introduce another piece of Aligned material, but I don't let them get to me or blind me to the canonicity. Cuz for every plot hole being created, there is another preexisting one being mended. Having viewed so much media created for this continuity, I can easily see that the original errors created in the earliest days of this continuity's existence have been recognized, and that the people behind the fiction have tried, they have tried, really tried, to make things work. But for everyone trying to fix something is another unaware person making a new inconsistency. And then someone else tries to fix that error. Hasbro simply gave so much creative freedom to so many parties that they can't have all of them on leashes.

Retcons and inconsistencies are simply a thing in this brand, and have been since the beginning, 30 years ago. And that's likely not ever going to change, nor can we do anything to stop it. Best we can do is not let it get to us that much and move on, enjoying the brand we love for what it is rather than what we'd want it to be.

Sabrblade wrote:More like I feel they are 1 continuity for the same reason as Armada, Energon, and Cybertron all are: That's the official canon. It matters not how I personally feel about them all being tied together, as I go by what's canonical.

in this context,in a fiction canon is derived from continue

example
If tomorrow, Hasbro came out and said that the G1 cartoon and the 1 Marvel comic and the G1 Dreamwave comic were all 1 continuity wouldnt make it correct.


if the story truly doesnt fit that they are not in 1 continuity, no matter what anyone says.

and thats not an opinion based statement, its just a mater of mathematics

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:More like I feel they are 1 continuity for the same reason as Armada, Energon, and Cybertron all are: That's the official canon. It matters not how I personally feel about them all being tied together, as I go by what's canonical.

in this context,in a fiction canon is derived from continue

example
If tomorrow, Hasbro came out and said that the G1 cartoon and the 1 Marvel comic and the G1 Dreamwave comic were all 1 continuity wouldnt make it correct.


if the story truly doesnt fit that they are not in 1 continuity, no matter what anyone says.

and thats not an opinion based statement, its just a mater of mathematics

Well, it's a good thing Hasbro wouldn't do something that absurd, anyway.

But as far as the Aligned continuity goes, it's all meant to be one story, despite the few errors that arise. But as I said, the G1 cartoon itself was riddled with similar errors and plot holes, yet no one makes a fuss about that, claiming it to not be one story.

The way Hasbro's been handling this for the most part has been "Follow our guidelines for the most part, but let the fans sort everything out." And we have been.

Sabrblade wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:More like I feel they are 1 continuity for the same reason as Armada, Energon, and Cybertron all are: That's the official canon. It matters not how I personally feel about them all being tied together, as I go by what's canonical.

in this context,in a fiction canon is derived from continue

example
If tomorrow, Hasbro came out and said that the G1 cartoon and the 1 Marvel comic and the G1 Dreamwave comic were all 1 continuity wouldnt make it correct.


if the story truly doesnt fit that they are not in 1 continuity, no matter what anyone says.

and thats not an opinion based statement, its just a mater of mathematics

Well, it's a good thing Hasbro wouldn't do something that absurd, anyway.

But as far as the Aligned continuity goes, it's all meant to be one story, despite the few errors that arise. But as I said, the G1 cartoon itself was riddled with similar errors and plot holes, yet no one makes a fuss about that, claiming it to not be one story.

The way Hasbro's been handling this for the most part has been "Follow our guidelines for the most part, but let the fans sort everything out." And we have been.

at least they havent yet.

I wont deny that it was the intent that the Aligned be 1 continuity only, but "intent follows the bullet" not the shooter.

as to the g1 toon having similar continuity issues, I cant say for sure, since I am not fully aware of the level of the continuity offences in the Aligned story.But as far as the G1 cartoon , there arent any real major issues.

the biggest everyone always brings up is the Constructicon origin, and that one can be fixed with out ever re-writting the story.
One only needs to accept that the word "built" had different definitions and that the story/dialog itself never qualified what the word truly meant with the narritve.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:at least they havent yet.

And it's really not likely that they would at this point since A) they don't seem to care much about decades-old media to really bother with altering on such a significant level, an B) Hasbo thankfully isn't run by monkeys pounding senselessly on keyboards.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:I wont deny that it was the intent that the Aligned be 1 continuity only, but "intent follows the bullet" not the shooter.

Most of the stuff can fit well enough with any errors mainly being isolated cases that don't necessarily affect the greater continuity. There are a small few that do, however, but they're not as prominently abundant at the more minor quibbles.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:as to the g1 toon having similar continuity issues, I cant say for sure, since I am not fully aware of the level of the continuity offences in the Aligned story.But as far as the G1 cartoon , there arent any real major issues.

the biggest everyone always brings up is the Constructicon origin, and that one can be fixed with out ever re-writting the story.
One only needs to accept that the word "built" had different definitions and that the story/dialog itself never qualified what the word truly meant with the narritve.

Right, but until someone comes along and creates a piece of fiction that deliberately writes that word as meaning something to fit better with the Crystal City/Robo-Smasher backstory, it'll remain as vague as it currently is.

Though, the Wings Universe did fix that "built" instance to jibe with the other backstory, but sadly that fix pertains to just that universe's alternate version of the G1 cartoon rather than the G1 cartoon proper.

it could just be that they had been damaged or had to be rebuilt to function better on earth -it depends.
Also glad someones agreeing with me about the nonsense that is the alligned continutity

also in regard to the marvel g1 the tv series and dream wave the marvel g1 is completely independent of any other series -it does share some with the marvel uk series but they divered and in fact are fairly well established to be different
the tv series and the dream wave stuff only can be associated with each other up to the 2nd season end and even then a lot of stuff doesn't make sense -espically after the second mini series followed by the ongoing that didn't last long and the other comics so its likely also on its own
plus g1 diverged in the 4th seasons with the japanese series that also share some parts but not others. take for example the head masters series in both the american and japanese in japan they made them small transformers that has large bodys that they formed the heads of and in the american version the humans formed a symbiosis with the humans to form their heads-something i think is kinda dumb -its the same reason devistator is a moron too many minds trying to think as one. But both are g1 and the series goes on to do some interesting things with god masters and victory -those are g1 just not the same part as the american series -the point is that these things don't even make sense some times because of exectives or marketing people make these rules not the writers who come up with the idea. unless they are all working together not just from the same blue print set you won't get a very good continuity its one reason why i don't like this now if they had a group of writers and proof readers to go over it and once they see the alpha version of the media they can say ok its good or there are some issue but here are a few plot related issue for example in the novel you have the prime listed as zeta prime when we are calling him sentinal prime -here please switch the name -instead we get a rep say his names sentinal zeta prime which makes no sense and also its just them trying to not admit they **** up

chaosmage42 wrote:also in regard to the marvel g1 the tv series and dream wave the marvel g1 is completely independent of any other series -it does share some with the marvel uk series but they divered and in fact are fairly well established to be different
the tv series and the dream wave stuff only can be associated with each other up to the 2nd season end and even then a lot of stuff doesn't make sense -espically after the second mini series followed by the ongoing that didn't last long and the other comics so its likely also on its own
plus g1 diverged in the 4th seasons with the japanese series that also share some parts but not others. take for example the head masters series in both the american and japanese in japan they made them small transformers that has large bodys that they formed the heads of and in the american version the humans formed a symbiosis with the humans to form their heads-something i think is kinda dumb -its the same reason devistator is a moron too many minds trying to think as one. But both are g1 and the series goes on to do some interesting things with god masters and victory -those are g1 just not the same part as the american series

We know all this. Sto was speaking of a hypothetical situation in which Hasbro might do something absurd like claim that the G1 cartoon, Marvel comics, and Dreamwave comics were all suddenly in the same continuity. But that's all that that is, a hypothetical case, not a real one.

chaosmage42 wrote:-the point is that these things don't even make sense some times because of exectives or marketing people make these rules not the writers who come up with the idea. unless they are all working together not just from the same blue print set you won't get a very good continuity its one reason why i don't like this now if they had a group of writers and proof readers to go over it and once they see the alpha version of the media they can say ok its good or there are some issue but here are a few plot related issue for example in the novel you have the prime listed as zeta prime when we are calling him sentinal prime -here please switch the name -instead we get a rep say his names sentinal zeta prime which makes no sense and also its just them trying to not admit they **** up

Later fiction made sense of the name. The Transformers Vault revealed that the "Sentinel" part is part of his title and that "Zeta" is his given name. And the Covenant of Primus capitalized on this by referring to him as "Sentinel Zeta", and "Sentinel" for short, when not speaking the "Prime" part of his full name.

You just keep coming up with excuses to hate on something you don't like, and that's just mean.

Sabrblade wrote:Most of the stuff can fit well enough with any errors mainly being isolated cases that don't necessarily affect the greater continuity. There are a small few that do, however, but they're not as prominently abundant at the more minor quibbles.

anything major/solid that differed would make a separate continuity

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:Right, but until someone comes along and creates a piece of fiction that deliberately writes that word as meaning something to fit better with the Crystal City/Robo-Smasher backstory, it'll remain as vague as it currently is.

incorrect.

and the reason is because the dialog itself was indeed vague
nothing in the "heavy metal" story was clear that they were "new" life.

Megatrons dialog itself was vague.
"They were worth the time we spent building them in these caverns"

thats all we got, nothing in the entire episode serves as a qualifying word to tell us what was meant by the word "building".
Megatrton never refers to their "creation" or ever gives any such statement like "I created uou".
Not one on the autobots is surprised by the existence of the "new" bad guys.

no fix is needed because the only reason people see a contradiction is because as viewers we knew they were new characters, so our minds took the word "built" and gave it the definition of "newly created" when the story itself never did.

chaosmage42 wrote:also in regard to the marvel g1 the tv series and dream wave the marvel g1 is completely independent of any other series -it does share some with the marvel uk series but they divered and in fact are fairly well established to be different

plus g1 diverged in the 4th seasons with the japanese series

I was speaking hypothetically

also, Japanese G1 diverged well before the 4th season

i know but im using it as an example this is all considered g1 thats what we have her -the alligned continuity is the exact same thing its a bunch of different stories that share a set of basics but are not all one just like g1

also that bit with sential zeta prime is bull they made that up after the fact to cover a plot hole also its odd because zeta prime what what he was called or sential prime no transformer has 3 parts to their name that i know of and if they do its very rare -and this is the problem they keep trying to cover plot holes badly its just not very good they need to either stop trying to jam it together or do a better job -personally i think both are also an option, smashing everything together into a single plot line isn't a great idea -look what happened with energon and cybertron it was a mass of bad plot their too -enjoyable but it would have been better to cut the ties between them as they don't make sense -i love continuity as much as the next person but it makes more sense if their apart instead of handwaving a silly idea that the black hole is mucking up the past -thats not how black holes work -they cause time dialation to altering the past. At any rate i say that what we have with the cybertron games is one story on its own not directly related to other -espically primes.

also lets move this disscussion to another thread here alligned-continuity-scrap-it--p1609983.php#p1609983 otherwise its going to be the same people repeating the same thing with out anyone else's imput and its going to be the same thing over and over again

Returning to the main topic: I really sad that DW didn't get a chance to end Energon Comic, story was interesting and there was a lot of interesting ideas from Cartoon were done right. Especially, since they had to end this in very interesting moment, Megatron defeated Scorponock and was ready to regain control over Decepticons, and Prime was about do find out what is going on with Unicron's return. There was a lot character that didn't get enough time to shine (Snow Cat, Tidal Wave, Ironhide)

I would gladly revisit Armada/Energon continuity in form of a reebot. So much unused potential in this Universe it's almost sad. Why this series coudln't beign done by someone who takes production of Cartoons more seriously?

well the problem is they over pushed the toy gimick -and they didn't design many of the bots very well -the issue i think is that armada had a lot more pre production and planning -though it started suffering after a short time and energon was rammed rodded down the production pip line -it wasn't planned out well had poor animation and stuff doesn't make any sense

also cybertron was a different series that good added on to it -it really doesn't fit if you think about it -though the comic doesn't have the same problem i was hoping they would finish it but oh well -i did buy all the dream waves -im just sad the ceo screwed the writers -i wounder if its possible for them to ever finish it some other way but its probably not worth it with out the toy line

I wonder if it's in IDW interests to do something with the unicron trilogy, like a new series or mini series. Its more of a shame the reworked Japanese armada eps weren't used instead