The Energon Pub

decepta-scott wrote:Yeah I know. I am well aware that I dont have to buy them. It would be nice however to decide not to buy them because I dont want them and not because I havent built up enough equity in my home to to get a loan and buy theese figures. I am also aware that I am not owed anything by hasbro.
Since I am a collector and fan of their product however (as are many many collectors. Alot more than your giving credit for) the decent thing to do, owed to us or not and reguardless of the fact that no binding contracts were signed, would be to offer us a collectors club or something. A way to get figures only collectors would want into our hands at enough of a mark up to pay for the new mould and still make a profit, but not force us to choose between a figure and oh say.... HALF A YEARS WORTH OF ELECTRICITY!
There are enough fans to justify this. Mattel has done it for heman and motu hasnt had a line sold retail for damn near a decade. If motu has enough fans to make a collectors club lucerative then Im pretty sure transformers does.
Again, I know its not owed but it should be done. Particularly when concidering our passed and continued support of their product and concidering our passion for the classics line and desire for theese figures. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to being a decent company that respects and aprieciates its fans/supporters.

Now if youll excues me I have to go find a way to make six hundred dollars.

I understand how offensive it looks that these cost what they do, especially to someone new (or recently returned) to the game, but that's pretty much just the going rate of 3rd Party figs. And actually, my understanding is these guys really aren't making a killing doing it. These things are quite expensive to make and they're only making a couple thousand as opposed to tens or hundreds of thousands like Hasbro & Takara. Not to mention whoever is making them must be charging less than the $78 robotkingdom is selling them for. The online stores are marking them up from there.

As far as a club goes, there is one, but they only offer repaints as the cost is just too great in the design and engineering of entirely new molds. And for what it's worth, those repaints generally run about $50 a pop. Kinda makes the entirley new 3rd Party figs' cost a little less offensive, no?

He-man is a pretty bad analogy to make. He-man toys can make an entire line using the same base body with new accessories and heads. TFs require all-new molds to really please fans. And they have a lot of small parts to them too. I can see why Hasbro isn't very open to requests for TF.

But there's an upside. You won't pay $600 all at once, it's spread out with a new bot every 2 months. And even then I doubt these will sell out quickly.

HoosierDaddy wrote:However, I don't know if you are using the 4%/1000 collectors as a simple easy example or if you are serious with those numbers. Those numbers are way off. There many thousands of adult TF collectors world wide.

Versus the millions of children in the world...I'd say he isn't far off.

decepta-scott wrote: Yeah I know. I am well aware that I dont have to buy them. It would be nice however to decide not to buy them because I dont want them and not because I havent built up enough equity in my home to to get a loan and buy theese figures. I am also aware that I am not owed anything by hasbro.
Since I am a collector and fan of their product however (as are many many collectors. Alot more than your giving credit for) the decent thing to do, owed to us or not and reguardless of the fact that no binding contracts were signed, would be to offer us a collectors club or something. A way to get figures only collectors would want into our hands at enough of a mark up to pay for the new mould and still make a profit, but not force us to choose between a figure and oh say.... HALF A YEARS WORTH OF ELECTRICITY!
There are enough fans to justify this. Mattel has done it for heman and motu hasnt had a line sold retail for damn near a decade. If motu has enough fans to make a collectors club lucerative then Im pretty sure transformers does.
Again, I know its not owed but it should be done. Particularly when concidering our passed and continued support of their product and concidering our passion for the classics line and desire for theese figures. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to being a decent company that respects and aprieciates its fans/supporters.

Now if youll excues me I have to go find a way to make six hundred dollars.

I always enjoy these selfish threads on about why Hasbro should make everything cheap and easy to obtain for everybody. Hasbro should make this around $100 so the handful of us will buy it and then they will be a shelf warmer and hurt their business.

Hasbro (and most of us) have realized by now that anything over $80 tends not to sell, look at the ultimate bumblebee, looks at most Supereme class figures...almost always on clearance.

While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

GetterDragun wrote:
I always enjoy these selfish threads on about why Hasbro should make everything cheap and easy to obtain for everybody. Hasbro should make this around $100 so the handful of us will buy it and then they will be a shelf warmer and hurt their business.

Hasbro (and most of us) have realized by now that anything over $80 tends not to sell, look at the ultimate bumblebee, looks at most Supereme class figures...almost always on clearance.

While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

Took the words straight out of my mouth GD...

On topic, If you want nice things(open to interpretation here) you have to be prepared to pay a premium.

Given the amount of work, supplies, etc. that had to be put in to create these, is it really to much to ask for $100 per figure? Wasn't fan projects magnus armor somewhere in that ball park initially and it requires a seperate figure...

GetterDragun wrote:While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

I'm vehemently against that, too...now excuse me while I go play with my new Transformers Legos not made by Lego.

Kibble wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

I'm vehemently against that, too...now excuse me while I go play with my new Transformers Legos not made by Lego.

If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

GetterDragun wrote:

Kibble wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

I'm vehemently against that, too...now excuse me while I go play with my new Transformers Legos not made by Lego.

If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

Part of me can't help but think Hasbro is carefully observing this situation and is getting ready to fight back with their own version of a Neo G1 Devastator.

it will probably be announced when the 6th figure is complete and sold so fandom rage will rise.

robofreak wrote:
If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

Part of me can't help but think Hasbro is carefully observing this situation and is getting ready to fight back with their own version of a Neo G1 Devastator.

it will probably be announced when the 6th figure is complete and sold so fandom rage will rise.[/quote]
I wouldn't be entirely surprised, and it's be awesome for folks like me who can't afford the TFClub one, but it seems unlikely. Hasbro's record with combiners lately hasn't been doing much to make me think they'll even attempt to do a G1 Devy, let alone actually pull it off with any aplomb. The various movie Devastators were...I'll be polite here...not my cup of tea. The recently announced Encore version, designed over 25 years ago sports better engineering. PCCs at least had some half-decent commanders, but still, failed to produce either individual robot modes for the limbs, or convincing limbs out of the drones. Still a step down from the Scramble City and Energon combiner teams.

Anyone able to compare a G1 Jazz and a RTS Jazz? Or G1 Grimlock and MP Grimlock? Old and new Wreck-Gars? The technology and talent at their disposal has increased tremendously since the original days of the line. There should be no reason other than time and money that we can't get something just as appealing as the TFClub Devy. I'm not sure Hasbro would put them at the same size, or have integrated hands/feet (which I'm still not sure these 3rd party ones do) but I think enough people would pay 6 X $whatever a deluxe costs for a complete group of Scout sized Constructicons that form a 12inch-ish Devastator with fairly decent articulation at retail. Hell, I don't see that many people wanting Hook, or Long Haul or whoever as individuals, folks signing up for the $700 TFClub version are paying more for one than it could cost for a complete set from Hasbro.

I can only assume that someone at Hasbro doesn't want that money, or believes that people will still buy whatever multitude of Bumblebees they put out, again and again.

GetterDragun wrote:If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

Either that or Lego doesn't own the rights to building blocks just like HasTak doesn't own the rights to transforming robots. Mind you, I'm not defending the likes of iGear and their outright theft of molds, but the FansProjects of the world aren't doing anything more than Hasbro and their Lego sets.

robofreak wrote:Part of me can't help but think Hasbro is carefully observing this situation and is getting ready to fight back with their own version of a Neo G1 Devastator.

it will probably be announced when the 6th figure is complete and sold so fandom rage will rise.

Would there be rage, though? Sure, it would be ideal to have known ahead of time, but I'm getting Hercules...if HasTak wants to come along and put out something even better, by all means, please do! And if they come along and put something out and it's not quite as good, well, I'll still get it as it'll probably "only" be about $100. Then I'll throw it in a box and keep Hercules on my display shelves. (Assuming he lives up to the hype, that is.)

Basically you have to look at this thing as a custom that is put into production. I've seen very nice customs of combiner teams sell on ebay for over a grand, so the asking price isn't that outrageous (yes my original post was sarcasm, for those that didn't get it).

DISCHARGE wrote:Basically you have to look at this thing as a custom that is put into production. I've seen very nice customs of combiner teams sell on ebay for over a grand, so the asking price isn't that outrageous (yes my original post was sarcasm, for those that didn't get it).

Agreed. Look at Studio Half-Eye stuff...it was very flimsy plastic and were made like custom figures...plus for $750 they were small. These look like better quality than Studio Half-Eye, so the price seems justifiable to me.

robofreak wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Kibble wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

I'm vehemently against that, too...now excuse me while I go play with my new Transformers Legos not made by Lego.

If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

Part of me can't help but think Hasbro is carefully observing this situation and is getting ready to fight back with their own version of a Neo G1 Devastator.

it will probably be announced when the 6th figure is complete and sold so fandom rage will rise.

Oh that would be awesome. Imaging the masses that got pwned.

gavinfuzzy wrote:

robofreak wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

Kibble wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

I'm vehemently against that, too...now excuse me while I go play with my new Transformers Legos not made by Lego.

If there as an intellectual property issue, I'm sure Lego would have been all over Hasbro. Hasbro isn't a toy company in some cave in China that Lego can't go after.

Part of me can't help but think Hasbro is carefully observing this situation and is getting ready to fight back with their own version of a Neo G1 Devastator.

it will probably be announced when the 6th figure is complete and sold so fandom rage will rise.

Oh that would be awesome. Imaging the masses that got pwned.

Wouldn't bother me a bit, and I'm getting two of each Hercules figure. I would happily buy Hasbro's version as well to add to Devy collection.

GetterDragun wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Yeah I know. I am well aware that I dont have to buy them. It would be nice however to decide not to buy them because I dont want them and not because I havent built up enough equity in my home to to get a loan and buy theese figures. I am also aware that I am not owed anything by hasbro.
Since I am a collector and fan of their product however (as are many many collectors. Alot more than your giving credit for) the decent thing to do, owed to us or not and reguardless of the fact that no binding contracts were signed, would be to offer us a collectors club or something. A way to get figures only collectors would want into our hands at enough of a mark up to pay for the new mould and still make a profit, but not force us to choose between a figure and oh say.... HALF A YEARS WORTH OF ELECTRICITY!
There are enough fans to justify this. Mattel has done it for heman and motu hasnt had a line sold retail for damn near a decade. If motu has enough fans to make a collectors club lucerative then Im pretty sure transformers does.
Again, I know its not owed but it should be done. Particularly when concidering our passed and continued support of their product and concidering our passion for the classics line and desire for theese figures. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to being a decent company that respects and aprieciates its fans/supporters.

Now if youll excues me I have to go find a way to make six hundred dollars.

I always enjoy these selfish threads on about why Hasbro should make everything cheap and easy to obtain for everybody. Hasbro should make this around $100 so the handful of us will buy it and then they will be a shelf warmer and hurt their business.

Hasbro (and most of us) have realized by now that anything over $80 tends not to sell, look at the ultimate bumblebee, looks at most Supereme class figures...almost always on clearance.

While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

This offensive, single minded comment came from a moderator? good god!!

Nice goin. you realy told me.

If you think they're making a HUGE profit, you have no idea what it takes for a small company to design, manufacture, and distribute a product like that.

decepta-scott wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Yeah I know. I am well aware that I dont have to buy them. It would be nice however to decide not to buy them because I dont want them and not because I havent built up enough equity in my home to to get a loan and buy theese figures. I am also aware that I am not owed anything by hasbro.
Since I am a collector and fan of their product however (as are many many collectors. Alot more than your giving credit for) the decent thing to do, owed to us or not and reguardless of the fact that no binding contracts were signed, would be to offer us a collectors club or something. A way to get figures only collectors would want into our hands at enough of a mark up to pay for the new mould and still make a profit, but not force us to choose between a figure and oh say.... HALF A YEARS WORTH OF ELECTRICITY!
There are enough fans to justify this. Mattel has done it for heman and motu hasnt had a line sold retail for damn near a decade. If motu has enough fans to make a collectors club lucerative then Im pretty sure transformers does.
Again, I know its not owed but it should be done. Particularly when concidering our passed and continued support of their product and concidering our passion for the classics line and desire for theese figures. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to being a decent company that respects and aprieciates its fans/supporters.

Now if youll excues me I have to go find a way to make six hundred dollars.

I always enjoy these selfish threads on about why Hasbro should make everything cheap and easy to obtain for everybody. Hasbro should make this around $100 so the handful of us will buy it and then they will be a shelf warmer and hurt their business.

Hasbro (and most of us) have realized by now that anything over $80 tends not to sell, look at the ultimate bumblebee, looks at most Supereme class figures...almost always on clearance.

While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

This offensive, single minded comment came from a moderator? good god!!

Nice goin. you realy told me.

What does being a moderator have to do with pointing out something so basic. I don't understand why people think all cool things should be in the price range that they want...seems kind of selfish to me.

Agreed. Just because I choose to collect Transformers doesn't mean I deserve to own each one. There are figures in my collection that are cheap and some that are not. The ones that I actually had to work for, mean a little more to me. If everything was cheap, where would all the holy grails go?

decepta-scott wrote:

This offensive, single minded comment came from a moderator? good god!!

Nice goin. you realy told me.

but, like...he gave differing viewpoints on the issue. you might not have agreed with them, but there was more than a "singe minded comment" there.

I didn't have the patience at the time to read every post but my real concern is the QC factor. And that being said someone who will be quick for an on line video review...'nuff said!

[/quote]

What does being a moderator have to do with pointing out something so basic. I don't understand why people think all cool things should be in the price range that they want...seems kind of selfish to me.[/quote]

Okay. If you think that an action figure... A FIVE INCH PLASTIC ACTION FIGURE...should cost 100 dollars plus then you are wearing your mod sash to tight.
Hows this for basic. If you dont like to read about people being livid at prices of figs then.. well.. dont click on a thread titled 'Im lived at fig prices!!"
Stop calling me selfish. You dont know me. I happen to be known for my selflessness. I hardly consider asking to pay a bit less than 100 bucks for a five inch plastic toy selfish anyway. You want selfish? Selfish is creeping from store to store buying up all the hard to find figures and selling them for hella profit on ebay. A practice that, unless Im mistaken,(at least I think that was your post I read defending scalper practices) you see no problems with. Hypocrite anyone?

craggy wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:

This offensive, single minded comment came from a moderator? good god!!

Nice goin. you realy told me.

but, like...he gave differing viewpoints on the issue. you might not have agreed with them, but there was more than a "singe minded comment" there.

I have no problem with differing viewpoints. Infact I welcome them. I do howerev have a problem with being insulted. If your going to offer up your opinion, dont insult people in the process. Especially if you happen to be one of the few charged with making sure that kind of thing DOSENT HAPPEN.

amcgrath929 wrote:Agreed. Just because I choose to collect Transformers doesn't mean I deserve to own each one. There are figures in my collection that are cheap and some that are not. The ones that I actually had to work for, mean a little more to me. If everything was cheap, where would all the holy grails go?

Well since theese figures are ment just for collectors Id say theyd better make them affordable. weather or not a person deserves a figure is not relevent. It all comes down to cash. This company IS MAKING A HUGE PROFIT. At least it will if people pony up the cash for theese things. A company usually wont green light something unless theyre going to make about thirty percent profit or more so please stop acting like this is a pennys a day buisness.

Bottom line is everyone has an opinion. Give it by all means but dont be an ass. I dont insult anyone and I dont expect to be insulted in return. (it is a forum rule to show respect is it not?) If you sling mud at me Im going to sling it right back
Ill end by saying that

Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that.

decepta-scott wrote: Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that.

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

In my book, that's the wrong way to look at it, but, you know, whatever. I blame China...or something. I don't know.

Ok, wait. I DO know.

Stating an opinion like yours shows that you have no understanding of market economics and how demand/supply can drive price.

YOU do not get to set price on things you want to buy based on what you feel to be right and proper. You may influence that price through your in-action, or you may have no influence at all. You may set the price on things you wish to sell based on what you feel is right and proper and very often that will lead to you going out of business. However, that is not the point.

Lookie here:


Approximately 5" of plastic.

If I were to offer to sell this for $100, I would have my PM box filled up with people asking me to "please" sell it to them. I could ask $150 and it would be no different. At $200, maybe some of them would drop off after it goes out of their price range. Even at $300 there would still be people asking to buy it because not only are they purchasing the item (original cost of approximately $65) they are paying for the time and effort it took to import it and they are paying for the fact that there are less than 400 of these in existence. Both demand and supply are at work here.

Don't do yourself a disservice by acting like you're the sole arbiter of price and "honorable" behavior because it's a losing attitude.

Suddenly knowing that there are less than 400 of those Noisemaze figures makes my search that much more futile.

My limit on that guy is about $150.

I don't think these guys are making a huge profit. They aren't just selling these and marking them up, they're also designing, distributing, and marketing them. Maybe I've been in this hobby too long, but the prices for these seem kind of ... reasonable for what they are. Custom made figured created by a small company to a highly select market.

Counterpunch wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that.

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

In my book, that's the wrong way to look at it, but, you know, whatever. I blame China...or something. I don't know.

Ok, wait. I DO know.

Stating an opinion like yours shows that you have no understanding of market economics and how demand/supply can drive price.

YOU do not get to set price on things you want to buy based on what you feel to be right and proper. You may influence that price through your in-action, or you may have no influence at all. You may set the price on things you wish to sell based on what you feel is right and proper and very often that will lead to you going out of business. However, that is not the point.

Lookie here:


Approximately 5" of plastic.

If I were to offer to sell this for $100, I would have my PM box filled up with people asking me to "please" sell it to them. I could ask $150 and it would be no different. At $200, maybe some of them would drop off after it goes out of their price range. Even at $300 there would still be people asking to buy it because not only are they purchasing the item (original cost of approximately $65) they are paying for the time and effort it took to import it and they are paying for the fact that there are less than 400 of these in existence. Both demand and supply are at work here.

Don't do yourself a disservice by acting like you're the sole arbiter of price and "honorable" behavior because it's a losing attitude.

Bingo. People that think these things can be sold at or around the price that Hasbro would charge have lost touch with reality. Do yourself a favor and try to build a custom Devastator. After doing so, sell it for $80. I'm sure you'll feel great.