The Energon Pub

As the one making the accusation the burden of proof is on you to prove it, not the other way around. And you can't. There's no way of proving they're making or aim to make a huge profit when they haven't even sold one of these guys yet.

Key word here? "Huge". Profit, yes. Huge profit? Dubious.

Gauntlet101010 wrote: Dubious.

His barganing posture?

joesaysso wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote: Dubious.

His barganing posture?

Highly dubious.

decepta-scott wrote: But you see my friend you have no proof that they are NOT making a huge profit. Thats the other side of the coin see?
So, you have to look at what is logical. Is it logical to assume that this company is embarking on this huge hard to acomplish task while making minimum proffit, or is it pretty safe to say that they follow suit with every other company and are making max profit.
I swear, What started off as me saying simply that It sucks to pay so much for a figure that I really wanted has mutated into something that I hardly recognize.
If they want to make a killing fine! I cant stop them. I can however wish that they would lower the price so that I can afford it.
Im betting if they lowered their price by 150 dollars (over all) they would do alot better than they are going to do with a 600 plus price tag.
Still, after all this , I am going to find a way to buy this damn thing.
So I guess banking on collectors, blinded by their passion will pay just about anything for a piece they realy want is a good bet.
Take care and thank you for sparing me the insults and sarcastic remarks.

I'd be buying one if it was cheaper. Definitely. I think a lot of people have posted similarly. They'd been expecting £40-60 figures and when it's been announced as £70+shipping, people have looked at the total and gone "hold on a minute!". Which makes me think that either TFClub have overestimated people's spending power (or will-power) or, that these are the lowest prices they can afford whilst still making profit. Lets say they were £10 cheaper, but 100 more people bought them. Would that work out ok? We can't know unless we know numbers. It may be they're being cautious. If there are any repaints/rereleases we might see them drop in price, or come with extras for the same price.

Yeah I have a hard time convincing myself to buy those 2 Bruticus add ons from whoever makes them. I'm not going hard core right now and I've forgotten who the 3rd party guys are. Watching convention footage with 80 dollars a figure for some of the exclusives get a bit much. Is it gouging, absolutely because they know how much collectors have to feed their need. Is it cost covering, I'm sure but we all vote with our wallets.

Imagine a con exclusive that was 100 and we all said NO to it. The price would drop. That'll never happen but it's just like gas or any other item for sale.

Oh yeah I remember a 3rd party now because I wanted to build up my Devistator....

CrazyDevy = CrazyPricey

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

joesaysso wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote: Dubious.

His barganing posture?

Highly dubious.

I'm glad somebody picked that up and didn't leave me hanging.

decepta-scott wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:
But My arguement is not weak and I havnt went about it the wrong way.

You have no proof that TFC is going to make an enormous profit off of their Devastator.

I'm sure they make the profits the need to keep afloat, pay their employees, and grow in the future, to provide us with better products, maybe cheaper ones too. Warbot from Fansproject was a similar price, so was Delicate Warrior.

Without proof your argument comes off as weak, and whiney.

Fact is, Hercules is very expensive, but that's likely the price it needs to be for TFC to be sustainable.

But you see my friend you have no proof that they are NOT making a huge profit. Thats the other side of the coin see?
So, you have to look at what is logical. Is it logical to assume that this company is embarking on this huge hard to acomplish task while making minimum proffit, or is it pretty safe to say that they follow suit with every other company and are making max profit.
I swear, What started off as me saying simply that It sucks to pay so much for a figure that I really wanted has mutated into something that I hardly recognize. If they want to make a killing fine! I cant stop them. I can however wish that they would lower the price so that I can afford it.
Im betting if they lowered their price by 150 dollars (over all) they would do alot better than they are going to do with a 600 plus price tag.
Still, after all this , I am going to find a way to buy this damn thing.So I guess banking on collectors, blinded by their passion will pay just about anything for a piece they realy want is a good bet.
Take care and thank you for sparing me the insults and sarcastic remarks.

You're going around in circles with your statements and you are still not providing any facts. And after 8 pages of moaning, insulting people, and making assumations & entitlement demands you're going to buy the figures anyway! What is the point of this thread?

Relax, stop making assumptions, and take a wait and see approach. It would be very ironic if you bought these figures and they turned out to be crap. This company does not have a stellar track record when it comes to quality control. And gestalts at this size can have issues with the joints.

Psst...Maketoy is making they're own Devastator.

As I said earlier.......we vote with our wallets. Wouldn't it be great to get TFW and Siebertron to both boycott prices until they fall? I'd do it.

SN95 Cobra R wrote:As I said earlier.......we vote with our wallets. Wouldn't it be great to get TFW and Siebertron to both boycott prices until they fall? I'd do it.

The only way they'd fall is if TFC is making a huge turnaround on the figures. I for one, still am not sold on the idea that they are. I agree they are making a profit because they have to but I don't believe it is as large as some people seem to believe.

SN95 Cobra R wrote:As I said earlier.......we vote with our wallets. Wouldn't it be great to get TFW and Siebertron to both boycott prices until they fall? I'd do it.

Of course if nobody buys the project they've sunk so much money into it might have the adverse effect of just bankrupting them.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

SN95 Cobra R wrote:As I said earlier.......we vote with our wallets. Wouldn't it be great to get TFW and Siebertron to both boycott prices until they fall? I'd do it.

Of course if nobody buys the project they've sunk so much money into it might have the adverse effect of just bankrupting them.

Exactly...since they're staggered releases, all this does is result in the other 5 not seeing the light of day. And then yes, the price would probably fall on the lonely Exgraver fig. Anyone want that fig alone for $40?

Kibble wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

SN95 Cobra R wrote:As I said earlier.......we vote with our wallets. Wouldn't it be great to get TFW and Siebertron to both boycott prices until they fall? I'd do it.

Of course if nobody buys the project they've sunk so much money into it might have the adverse effect of just bankrupting them.

Exactly...since they're staggered releases, all this does is result in the other 5 not seeing the light of day. And then yes, the price would probably fall on the lonely Exgraver fig. Anyone want that fig alone for $40?

As someone who previous made public my comments that the prices should be lower (because *I* feel they should be), I will say that not seeing the entire set of TFC Hercules figures go to market would be a sad thing indeed. And I would be hard pressed to buy a lone figure at $40 if it was definite that no other figures from that line would be released.

And so lies the problem, even if these get sold at the current price, will we actually see all the figures? Will sales for the first few releases support seeing the rest? Can we do a mail-in buy 5 get the last free?

Still haven't seen prototypes of the last two figures, or what they will look like combined. I own the MP Battle Roller figure, and it's a jangly mess. I really hope the same doesn't speak for these releases.

Stormrider wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:

Jesterhead wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:

You're going around in circles with your statements and you are still not providing any facts. And after 8 pages of moaning, insulting people, and making assumations & entitlement demands you're going to buy the figures anyway! What is the point of this thread?

Relax, stop making assumptions, and take a wait and see approach. It would be very ironic if you bought these figures and they turned out to be crap. This company does not have a stellar track record when it comes to quality control. And gestalts at this size can have issues with the joints.

Psst...Maketoy is making they're own Devastator.

1. I never set out to make facts. (although I think I ended up making a few anyway)This was simply a "I hate the fact that I have to pay 600 plus for devastator. Anyone else hate that?" thread. It wasnt until a few posters took things way to personal for no reason and started throwing insults my way that I fired back.(its all in the posts man) That being the case Id say that EVERYONE should have been a bit more calm and respectfull.
2.If Im assuming by stating that I think they are making a huge proffit then so are the posters who say that they are not.
3. I did not turn out 8 pages on my own. There were plenty of posts (mostly by the same four folks) that were people who were simply "moaning" that I was "moaning". Been anot of hypocrisy on this thread.
4. Ofcourse Im buying them. Why do you think Im so ticked off at the price? LOL!!

So this company dosent have the greatest record hu? I asked about this in another thread and was told they were solid. (I think) I cant do the whole weak joint thing as it makes figs hard to pose. I can sometimes fix loose joints though if they are made to detach. I just put small pieces of clear tape on the male end and when you reattach the limb (or what ever) presto!! loose is now tight.
Youve got me worried now though. I never considered that we may be stuck with only a few constructicons if they decide the whole thing is a bust. There are few things that I can think of that are more worthless thanconstructicons that are too few in number to form devistator.
One thing I needed to find out though and maybe you know the answer. Are ALL the constructicons going to be five to six inches, or just the core character? If they havnt found a way to make them ALL to scale with the rest of my collection then thats another strike for me.
Make toy making a devastator hu? Never heard of em. Im going to go check on that here in a bit. Thanks for the info bro.
Later.

necr0blivion wrote:Still haven't seen prototypes of the last two figures, or what they will look like combined. I own the MP Battle Roller figure, and it's a jangly mess. I really hope the same doesn't speak for these releases.

I'd wager that's because they haven't been made yet. Think about it from their point of view. They've prototyped 4 Constructicons without putting even one out yet. Maybe they can't afford to make 5 and 6 yet. Maybe they wanna see how they do a bit.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

necr0blivion wrote:Still haven't seen prototypes of the last two figures, or what they will look like combined. I own the MP Battle Roller figure, and it's a jangly mess. I really hope the same doesn't speak for these releases.

I'd wager that's because they haven't been made yet. Think about it from their point of view. They've prototyped 4 Constructicons without putting even one out yet. Maybe they can't afford to make 5 and 6 yet. Maybe they wanna see how they do a bit.

hmmm.... It would suck to hard to put into words if we were to purchase two, or three of theese guys only to find out that they arent going to be able to release the last few. Anyone interested in a Parapalegic devestator? LOL.

I am definitely excited about TFClub Devastator, but personally, I don't have 100% faith in it. There are several unknown factors about the piece:

The first pictures from this project surfaced 1.5 years ago (may be even longer). That seems like a relatively long time and only 4 figures have been shown so far. The fact that TFClub is starting preorders without announcing or showing sketches of the last two figures is pretty dicey (especially since Scavenger and Scrapper can be used right or left). They could at least show silouttes of the last two characters like the other 3rd party companies do.

If you read the blog of Matermind (creator of Heart of Steel Optimus Prime) http://mastermindcreation.blogspot.com/ you can see how many obstacles a small 3rd party company must overcome to make a figure fan worthy. Some of those things include - finding investors and securing funds; making test versions and making sure that all the pieces fit and function properly for a transformation; and finding a trustworthy and lucrative plastic company willing to make small batches of your figures and asseble them with the outmost quality control procedures.

Now it is possible that they have overcome all of these hurdles and this figure will be perfect in every way. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Well, this isn't the first thing they've made, so they must have overcome at least some of those hurdles. Meanwhile HoS Optimus was the first product the other company made, so those hurdles were new to them.

The production time doesn't bother me. Look at Fansprojects. How long did they take to develop Protector? These guys have shown us quite a few molds in a reletively short time. So I'm gonna trust them on this.

decepta-scott wrote: But you see my friend you have no proof that they are NOT making a huge profit. Thats the other side of the coin see?
So, you have to look at what is logical. Is it logical to assume that this company is embarking on this huge hard to acomplish task while making minimum proffit, or is it pretty safe to say that they follow suit with every other company and are making max profit.
I swear, What started off as me saying simply that It sucks to pay so much for a figure that I really wanted has mutated into something that I hardly recognize.
If they want to make a killing fine! I cant stop them. I can however wish that they would lower the price so that I can afford it.
Im betting if they lowered their price by 150 dollars (over all) they would do alot better than they are going to do with a 600 plus price tag.
Still, after all this , I am going to find a way to buy this damn thing.
So I guess banking on collectors, blinded by their passion will pay just about anything for a piece they realy want is a good bet.
Take care and thank you for sparing me the insults and sarcastic remarks.

I really enjoy business discussions that talk about minimum and maximum profit. Is there a specific number that you are using for maximum and minimum. I would assume that a minimum markup is a 1.0 multiplier since that would mean you are selling it at cost. Now what do you use for maximum markup? 1.5 2.0? This is why this is a poor argument. In todays economy (and not far off like in most years), profit margin is usually based upon what the market will bare. There is no such thing as "making maximum profit". Plus you have no idea what there cost of rent is, payroll, production cost, etc. Maybe they need to sell all they producte to even make a profit. But then I guess none of us know that unless they go public and issue an annual report. And I'm sorry that it sucks that you find the figure expensive, but that is the way things go in this world. We all don't deserve Bugatti Veyrons and awesome Devestators. This is why the American economy is in ths shitter instead of people trying to work hard to get nice things, they just believe they deserve it.

The QC is still a big question mark for me as I have not heard the best things about their Battle Roller. Plus, BBTS doesn't seem to be running out of pre orders. Last time I checked they had over 450 left so I'm going to let some other people be the guinea pig on this one.

[/quote]
I'm sorry that it sucks that you find the figure expensive, but that is the way things go in this world. We all don't deserve Bugatti Veyrons and awesome Devestators. This is why the American economy is in ths shitter instead of people trying to work hard to get nice things, they just believe they deserve it.[/quote]

Just for the record I work two jobs one of which required years of college to obtain and the other...well a monkey could do it but its a hard job none the less.
I work very hard to keep my jobs and to support my wife and family.
Until recently my wife and I took care of my granny (she was my true mother and bought me my transformers when I deserved them. R.I.P. granny )
I have never been given anything by anyone and have worked hard for the money to buy everything I own. It is for this very reason that I do not like to pay super inflated prices with my hard earned cash.
I have had a job since I was sixteen and when I wasnt full time I was in school So if you were refering to me, you were wrong.
Now, by saying "not EVERYONE deserves awesome devestators" you imply that some of us DO.
My question is with my work history and the fact that Im not responsible for putting the economy in the shitter do I qualify to be one of the people who DO deserve an awesome devestator? If so,where do I sign up? I NEEDS ME A DEVESTATOR!!

Seriously though, plenty of folks deserve things (be they good, or bad) and never get their come upins. When you get to be our age deserve has nothing to do with getting figures. Its all about cash man. Cool hard cash. Take care.

from TFClub's point of view, anyone with $700 deserves a Devastator. Since they're making the thing, I suppose it's up to them to decide who deserves it.

craggy wrote:from TFClub's point of view, anyone with $700 deserves a Devastator.

ROTFL!! Nicely said! If you got the cash, you deserve the figure. Simple and true.

I think you took the words "deserve" out of context. I don't think commodity speculators who rake in profit at the expense of normal consumers deserve this devestator. Maybe I should have used the word earned or saved or something else. We all have a grail figure that we will save up for a long time to get. I have a couple of figres that I could see paying a lot for and I have some figures that I have paid a lot for. But they were special figures. Do I think this devesator is cool looking, yea. Would I buy it, no. I think encore is more impressive because it is the original and is a legitimate figure not made by a knockoff company.

I think a reasonable complaint to make is that, yes, if Hasbro made something like this, it would be cheaper, however, the fandom who will cry and moan that Hasbro doesn't make certain things will also by knockoffs which obviously does not incentize (if that's a word) Hasbro to make more of what we want.

It's not a question of who "deserves" what. This is a capitalist system, not communist or socialist.