The Energon Pub

decepta-scott wrote:$600.00 for the third party devestator!?!?!?!?!? $600 DOLLARS FOR MY PRECIOUS MUST HAVE CONSTRUCTICONS?!?!?!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!! I feel as if I were just stomped in the jewels!

OK, several points to make here:

1) It's a third-party product, so it's not even really Devastator. You're getting bent out of shape that a company is charging too much for a product that it doesn't even legally have the right to produce.

2) You are severely underestimating the cost of designing and producing just one of these figures. It's not just a five-inch tall piece of plastic. It is hundreds of small plastic and metal pieces that must fit together precisely in order to be able to change from one form to another. The expense of creating a Transformer toy is the reason why Hasbro releases so many redecos and retools.

3) Each toy Hasbro releases is produced in huge quantities. This spreads the fixed cost of designing the toy across many more buyers. Third-party companies do not have this luxury. Thus, each purchaser must take on more of that fixed cost.

Example: Say it costs $10,000 to design a Transformers toy. Say it costs $6 to physically make and ship each toy.

Hasbro will sell 1 million of this toy. The total cost of each toy is $6 + $10,000 / 1,000,000 = $6.01. A third-party company will sell only 1,000. The total cost of each toy is $6 + $10,000 / 1,000 = $16. That is why a third-party product will always cost more than a Hasbro product. (Those numbers are no where near accurate to real numbers, but they illustrate the point.)

I'm not trying to be a dick, but your reaction to the pricing of a unofficial product is just beyond comprehension.

decepta-scott wrote:Come on hasbro! Reward hordes of loyal old school fans with an acceptable, affordable devastator figure! Make him reasonably priced and readily available too for christs sake!...... Sorry again for the rant guys n gals.
End rant.

Hasbro has thrown so many bones to the collectors over the past five years that it's unbelievable. The updated G1 characters that have come our way have been beyond awesome. Yes, there are problems with distribution. The wild success of the live-action films has altered the retailers' buying patterns in a way that Hasbro is just now figuring out how to adjust to. It will get better. And we will get more and more classic characters.

At this time, Hasbro doesn't feel a combiner will sell well enough to justify the expense. I'm hoping they change their minds in the very near future. I fully believe that there will be a Classics Devastator made at some point. It won't be next year. It may not be for another five years. For now, I'm just enjoying what I'm getting, and there is tons of it to enjoy.

wooah-oh we're halfway there
wooah-oh livid on a prayer

decepta-scott wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Yeah I know. I am well aware that I dont have to buy them. It would be nice however to decide not to buy them because I dont want them and not because I havent built up enough equity in my home to to get a loan and buy theese figures. I am also aware that I am not owed anything by hasbro.
Since I am a collector and fan of their product however (as are many many collectors. Alot more than your giving credit for) the decent thing to do, owed to us or not and reguardless of the fact that no binding contracts were signed, would be to offer us a collectors club or something. A way to get figures only collectors would want into our hands at enough of a mark up to pay for the new mould and still make a profit, but not force us to choose between a figure and oh say.... HALF A YEARS WORTH OF ELECTRICITY!
There are enough fans to justify this. Mattel has done it for heman and motu hasnt had a line sold retail for damn near a decade. If motu has enough fans to make a collectors club lucerative then Im pretty sure transformers does.
Again, I know its not owed but it should be done. Particularly when concidering our passed and continued support of their product and concidering our passion for the classics line and desire for theese figures. At the end of the day I guess it comes down to being a decent company that respects and aprieciates its fans/supporters.

Now if youll excues me I have to go find a way to make six hundred dollars.

I always enjoy these selfish threads on about why Hasbro should make everything cheap and easy to obtain for everybody. Hasbro should make this around $100 so the handful of us will buy it and then they will be a shelf warmer and hurt their business.

Hasbro (and most of us) have realized by now that anything over $80 tends not to sell, look at the ultimate bumblebee, looks at most Supereme class figures...almost always on clearance.

While I am against these third party companies stealing Hasbros intellectual property, at least there is an option for some people. If the price of entry is too steep, then boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

This offensive, single minded comment came from a moderator? good god!!

Nice goin. you realy told me.

You seem to be having difficulty getting off the entitlement wagon, huh? If you don't like the price, don't buy it. It's not like they are coming into your house and robbing you. Does everything in life need to be at an affordable price for you? And if you think that is unfair, then go out and start your own company and make your own.

Counterpunch wrote:
Lookie here:

I think livid accurately describes me not being able to find one of these at Botcon.

Midnight_Fox wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:
Lookie here:

I think livid accurately describes me not being able to find one of these at Botcon.

Did you know we have a club?

Counterpunch wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that.

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

In my book, that's the wrong way to look at it, but, you know, whatever. I blame China...or something. I don't know.

Ok, wait. I DO know.

Stating an opinion like yours shows that you have no understanding of market economics and how demand/supply can drive price.

YOU do not get to set price on things you want to buy based on what you feel to be right and proper. You may influence that price through your in-action, or you may have no influence at all. You may set the price on things you wish to sell based on what you feel is right and proper and very often that will lead to you going out of business. However, that is not the point.

Lookie here:


Approximately 5" of plastic.

If I were to offer to sell this for $100, I would have my PM box filled up with people asking me to "please" sell it to them. I could ask $150 and it would be no different. At $200, maybe some of them would drop off after it goes out of their price range. Even at $300 there would still be people asking to buy it because not only are they purchasing the item (original cost of approximately $65) they are paying for the time and effort it took to import it and they are paying for the fact that there are less than 400 of these in existence. Both demand and supply are at work here.

Don't do yourself a disservice by acting like you're the sole arbiter of price and "honorable" behavior because it's a losing attitude.

1. I am no idiot. Please do not presume to tell me what I do and do not know about. I have a complete understanding of supply and demand.

2. Your 200 dollar figure is extreemely limited run. You cant compare theese constructicons being pricy to your limited run figure being pricy. There were only 400 made. That changes the game a bit. Im also thinking you were only able to procure them at bot con making them that much harder to obtain.


3. Show me one time that I said I was the sole arbiter of price and honor. Infact show me one time I even eluded to the possibility that I was the SOLE arbiter of price and honorable behavior. Oh you cant? Well then.

4. Your post was BASICALLY rubbish. Im starting to believe you people are arguing just for the sake of arguing.


This third party IS MAKING A HEFTY PROFIT!! Companys do not embark on such pricy endevors if the return is not great. Thats just the way it is. That being said they donot have to make such a hefty prifit. I would have paid sixty five a figure and been glad to do so. (Im betting Im not the only one) My complaint is that We as collectors are being targeted and taken advantage of. They price them as they do because they are banking on our passion to blind us to the fact that we are paying to much. If you people want to pay six hundred plus for devestator then do it! It is your right to do so, just as it is my right to bitch about the terrible inflated prices. I am a registered nurse and I moonlight as a janator at wal mart and still this hoby saps me. I dont see how some of you so adamantly defent jacked up prices. Im thinking the majority of posters with this thought process do not have to pay bills, support their family, earn their own money etc. Could be that they are just very young. Or both.(could be wrong)

decepta-scott wrote: This third party IS MAKING A HEFTY PROFIT!! Companys do not embark on such pricy endevors if the return is not great. Thats just the way it is. That being said they donot have to make such a hefty prifit. I would have paid sixty five a figure and been glad to do so. (Im betting Im not the only one) My complaint is that We as collectors are being targeted and taken advantage of. They price them as they do because they are banking on our passion to blind us to the fact that we are paying to much. If you people want to pay six hundred plus for devestator then do it! It is your right to do so, just as it is my right to bitch about the terrible inflated prices. I am a registered nurse and I moonlight as a janator at wal mart and still this hoby saps me. I dont see how some of you so adamantly defent jacked up prices. Im thinking the majority of posters with this thought process do not have to pay bills, support their family, earn their own money etc. Could be that they are just very young. Or both.(could be wrong)

That's where you're wrong. The people making these are fans themselves and that's largely what drives them. And these products are also limited...not 400 piece limited, but maybe in the neighborhood of 2000. You seem to think these guys are no different than Hasbro, only they charge 10x the price...and that couldn't be further from the truth. Honestly, I couldn't tell you how well these people do or don't do, and I'm not sure how you think you can either, but what I can tell you is when Hasbro makes similarly limited runs of exclusive figures that are just repaints, they charge in the neighborhood of $50 a figure...and they already have the molds and R&D done for those figures. This stuff isn't cheap to do...

decepta-scott wrote: 1. I am no idiot. Please do not presume to tell me what I do and do not know about. I have a complete understanding of supply and demand.

Funny how you don't show that in what you said...

decepta-scott wrote: 2. Your 200 dollar figure is extreemely limited run. You cant compare theese constructicons being pricy to your limited run figure being pricy. There were only 400 made. That changes the game a bit. Im also thinking you were only able to procure them at bot con making them that much harder to obtain.

It's an example of demand. Your simple and blunt statement was that 5" of plastic isn't worth $100 and that that was a "fact". I proved you wrong by showing that price is a matter of demand and/or supply. Don't make dense blunt statements if you don't want criticism.

decepta-scott wrote:3. Show me one time that I said I was the sole arbiter of price and honor. Infact show me one time I even eluded to the possibility that I was the SOLE arbiter of price and honorable behavior. Oh you cant? Well then.

Didn't you say this bit here?

decepta-scott wrote:Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that.

Yes you did.

Yes, you did.

decepta-scott wrote:4. Your post was BASICALLY rubbish. Im starting to believe you people are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

My post was awesome. Super-awesome in FACT. (this "FACT" thing is fun)

decepta-scott wrote:This third party IS MAKING A HEFTY PROFIT!! Companys do not embark on such pricy endevors if the return is not great. Thats just the way it is. That being said they donot have to make such a hefty prifit. I would have paid sixty five a figure and been glad to do so. (Im betting Im not the only one) My complaint is that We as collectors are being targeted and taken advantage of. They price them as they do because they are banking on our passion to blind us to the fact that we are paying to much. If you people want to pay six hundred plus for devestator then do it! It is your right to do so, just as it is my right to bitch about the terrible inflated prices. I am a registered nurse and I moonlight as a janator at wal mart and still this hoby saps me. I dont see how some of you so adamantly defent jacked up prices. Im thinking the majority of posters with this thought process do not have to pay bills, support their family, earn their own money etc. Could be that they are just very young. Or both.(could be wrong)

I'm ballin' outrageous.

Anyway, so what if 3rd parties are making a profit. They should. If they didn't I would not be able to buy awesome stuff.

Funny though, because at the end of your rant, you're once again telling people how to behave in accordance with how you live...

just sayin'

decepta-scott wrote:
This third party IS MAKING A HEFTY PROFIT!! Companys do not embark on such pricy endevors if the return is not great. Thats just the way it is. That being said they donot have to make such a hefty prifit. I would have paid sixty five a figure and been glad to do so. (Im betting Im not the only one) My complaint is that We as collectors are being targeted and taken advantage of. They price them as they do because they are banking on our passion to blind us to the fact that we are paying to much. If you people want to pay six hundred plus for devestator then do it! It is your right to do so, just as it is my right to bitch about the terrible inflated prices. I am a registered nurse and I moonlight as a janator at wal mart and still this hoby saps me. I dont see how some of you so adamantly defent jacked up prices. Im thinking the majority of posters with this thought process do not have to pay bills, support their family, earn their own money etc. Could be that they are just very young. Or both.(could be wrong)

You assume that they are making a 'hefty' profit, but how can you prove it. The fact is, we don't know their profit margins. With designing, renting factory time, and a limited production run I can't imagine they have too much gain on these complex, niche items.

In the same paragraph you chastise them for making a profit, and claim you would happily pay 65 dollars a figure, then, go on about how you can barely afford your hobby. The door swings both ways here. Could any of the businesses you work at afford to drop the price of their services by 35% and stay alive? Of course not.

No way in hell they are making 35 bucks profit on every 100 sold. Not even mature, global companies can make that high of a profit.

It's phenomenally expensive. If the reissued Fortress Maximus he wouldn't cost even 30% of that.

But on the flipside, TFClub are going out of their way to produce a top class, Classics version of Devastator that is G1 accurate, combines, and with each individual Con transforming. I think it's too expensive but they do need to make a profit and HasTak have no intention of making anything as cool as this.

Counterpunch wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: 1. I am no idiot. Please do not presume to tell me what I do and do not know about. I have a complete understanding of supply and demand.

Funny how you don't show that in what you said...

decepta-scott wrote: 2. Your 200 dollar figure is extreemely limited run. You cant compare theese constructicons being pricy to your limited run figure being pricy. There were only 400 made. That changes the game a bit. Im also thinking you were only able to procure them at bot con making them that much harder to obtain.

It's an example of demand. Your simple and blunt statement was that 5" of plastic isn't worth $100 and that that was a "fact". I proved you wrong by showing that price is a matter of demand and/or supply. Don't make dense blunt statements if you don't want criticism.

A piss poor example. One that should have never been used.

decepta-scott wrote:3. Show me one time that I said I was the sole arbiter of price and honor. Infact show me one time I even eluded to the possibility that I was the SOLE arbiter of price and honorable behavior. Oh you cant? Well then.

Didn't you say this bit here?

decepta-scott wrote:Ill end by saying 100 dollars for a five inch plastic fig is too much. FACT. There realy is no debating that. :

Yes you did.

Yes, you did.

No. I never said I was the SOLE arbiter of honor and prices. You can look until your eyes bleed and youll not find any such statement. So..
NO I DIDNT
NO I DIDNT

decepta-scott wrote:4. Your post was BASICALLY rubbish. Im starting to believe you people are arguing just for the sake of arguing.

My post was awesome. Super-awesome in FACT. (this "FACT" thing is fun)

decepta-scott wrote:This third party IS MAKING A HEFTY PROFIT!! Companys do not embark on such pricy endevors if the return is not great. Thats just the way it is. That being said they donot have to make such a hefty prifit. I would have paid sixty five a figure and been glad to do so. (Im betting Im not the only one) My complaint is that We as collectors are being targeted and taken advantage of. They price them as they do because they are banking on our passion to blind us to the fact that we are paying to much. If you people want to pay six hundred plus for devestator then do it! It is your right to do so, just as it is my right to bitch about the terrible inflated prices. I am a registered nurse and I moonlight as a janator at wal mart and still this hoby saps me. I dont see how some of you so adamantly defent jacked up prices. Im thinking the majority of posters with this thought process do not have to pay bills, support their family, earn their own money etc. Could be that they are just very young. Or both.(could be wrong)

I'm ballin' outrageous.

Anyway, so what if 3rd parties are making a profit. They should. If they didn't I would not be able to buy awesome stuff.

Funny though, because at the end of your rant, you're once again telling people how to behave in accordance with how you live...

just sayin'[/quote]
I have never said that people need to live the way I do. My original post was simply a vent on how I would not be purchasing my favorite set of bots and a yo yos like yourself thought it would be fun to insult me for doing so.

Again your post is rubbish. I find it funny that you had no comment on the whole bit about how you must not have to support yourself in anyway if you see no problems with shelling out so much cash for theese figs .


Just sayin.

decepta-scott wrote:I find it funny that you had no comment on the whole bit about how you must not have to support yourself in anyway if you see no problems with shelling out so much cash for these figs .

Just sayin.

I don't see how that is relevant.

I support myself, live on my own, drive my own car, pay my bills, etc, etc... And I have no problems shelling out that amount of money on toys every now and again. Just like the majority of the biggest collectors on this site...

decepta-scott wrote: I have never said that people need to live the way I do. My original post was simply a vent on how I would not be purchasing my favorite set of bots and a yo yos like yourself thought it would be fun to insult me for doing so.

Again your post is rubbish. I find it funny that you had no comment on the whole bit about how you must not have to support yourself in anyway if you see no problems with shelling out so much cash for theese figs .

But I primarily support myself and my lifestyle with my crushing good looks and my ability to tell a funny story over a glass of Scotch...

Counterpunch wrote:But I primarily support myself and my lifestyle with my crushing good looks and my ability to tell a funny story over a glass of Scotch...

While wearing a monocle and top hat.

Counterpunch wrote:But I primarily support myself and my lifestyle with my crushing good looks and my ability to tell a funny story over a glass of Scotch...

He doesn't always post post on Seibertron.com. But when he does, he does it over a glass of scotch.

Counterpunch,

He is the most interesting man on the interwebz.

Jesterhead wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:But I primarily support myself and my lifestyle with my crushing good looks and my ability to tell a funny story over a glass of Scotch...

He doesn't always post post on Seibertron.com. But when he does, he does it over a glass of scotch.

Counterpunch,

He is the most interesting man on the interwebz.

LIKE!

Counterpunch wrote:
Did you know we have a club?

Indeed I did. I even had a top hat and monocle all prepared for my glorious victory of finding it.

Jesterhead wrote:

Counterpunch wrote:But I primarily support myself and my lifestyle with my crushing good looks and my ability to tell a funny story over a glass of Scotch...

He doesn't always post post on Seibertron.com. But when he does, he does it over a glass of scotch.

Counterpunch,

He is the most interesting man on the interwebz.

*tips my double shot of Cabo Wabo*

Didn't read the whole thread. Heck, I couldn't make it through the first post. As soon as I saw him question why they are making such a HUGE profit, I lost it. How can you know they are making a huge profit if you have no idea what their costs are? Ugh.. This fandom and it's sense of entitlement...

Insane Galvatron wrote:Didn't read the whole thread. Heck, I couldn't make it through the first post. As soon as I saw him question why they are making such a HUGE profit, I lost it. How can you know they are making a huge profit if you have no idea what their costs are? Ugh.. This fandom and it's sense of entitlement...

Uh... but I do know how much they are hence the post. Do yourself a favor and at least finish the initial post before you pass judgement on someones statements.
[rolls eyes]
I love how you people are so quick to call someone stupid (or elude to it) simply because they dont agree with you. Ill say this once more and then Im done with this thread. This company IS MAKING A NICE PROFFIT! COMPANYS DO NOT EMBARK ON ENDEVORS SUCH AS THIS IF THEY ARENT MAKING A NICE PROFFIT! HELL THEY DONT DO ANYTHING IF THEY ARENT MAKING A NICE PROFFIT!! WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?!?!?
Now I was only stating that I wish they didnt have to make SUCH a proffit. I was saying that I wish they would have priced them somewhere in the relm of sixty dollars each. I also stated that I wish more of theese figures Im after couild be bought retail so I could save cash. THATS BASICALLY IT!!!
Enter all you A$$ holes who cant give your opinion without acting like an ignorant 13 yr old punk, being abrasive, calling people stupid and inviting people who dissagree with you to come live in the "real world",
I am well aware of the fact that I dont have to buy theese if I dont like the price. Thats beside the point.I dont need some smart ass to waltz into my thread and whine about me "whining"
Ive made every point I set out to make long ago. I am done with this thread and any smart ass who should happen to post hence forth. Thanks to those who offered their opinion without acting like an insane fanboy with millions of dollars to blow on figures and acts as if anyone who dosent is an idiot.

But you don't know exactly how much of this is pure profit. That's the big problem with your statement. We can only compare it to other 3rd party products and, I have to say, there are more expensive ones that deliver less for what they are.

And what's the problem with making a profit? Should they work for cost? I agree they must make a profit on these, but .... how much of a profit is totally up in the air. It's a big assumption that these guys are working just for the profit. If it's just about profit there are other things they could have made that wouldn't be nearly as risky.

decepta-scott wrote: Enter all you A$$ holes who cant give your opinion without acting like an ignorant 13 yr old punk, being abrasive, calling people stupid and inviting people who dissagree with you to come live in the "real world",
I am well aware of the fact that I dont have to buy theese if I dont like the price. Thats beside the point.I dont need some smart ass to waltz into my thread and whine about me "whining"
Ive made every point I set out to make long ago. I am done with this thread and any smart ass who should happen to post hence forth. Thanks to those who offered their opinion without acting like an insane fanboy with millions of dollars to blow on figures and acts as if anyone who dosent is an idiot.

If I hadn't been arguing with you in this thread, your post here would have earned you a warning.

Occasionally, when you find yourself arguing against everyone and everything, perhaps you should engage in a little introspection and ask yourself if just maybe you happen to be wrong on the matter.

Posting in all caps and outright insulting people is a sign that your argument is weak and instead of pounding the facts, you're pounding the table.

This is a discussion forum, if you want to post a hard and definitively sided opinion, be prepared for it to be subjugated to the withering cross-fire of public ridicule. If you're really putting something forward that's worth saying, you'll get support. At the same time, recognize gracefully when you've come at things from the wrong direction.

Lastly, if you outright insult people in forums that I moderate again there will not be a polite, reasoned reply. There will only be an infraction on your account.

Counterpunch wrote:

decepta-scott wrote: Enter all you A$$ holes who cant give your opinion without acting like an ignorant 13 yr old punk, being abrasive, calling people stupid and inviting people who dissagree with you to come live in the "real world",
I am well aware of the fact that I dont have to buy theese if I dont like the price. Thats beside the point.I dont need some smart ass to waltz into my thread and whine about me "whining"
Ive made every point I set out to make long ago. I am done with this thread and any smart ass who should happen to post hence forth. Thanks to those who offered their opinion without acting like an insane fanboy with millions of dollars to blow on figures and acts as if anyone who dosent is an idiot.

If I hadn't been arguing with you in this thread, your post here would have earned you a warning.

Occasionally, when you find yourself arguing against everyone and everything, perhaps you should engage in a little introspection and ask yourself if just maybe you happen to be wrong on the matter.

Posting in all caps and outright insulting people is a sign that your argument is weak and instead of pounding the facts, you're pounding the table.

This is a discussion forum, if you want to post a hard and definitively sided opinion, be prepared for it to be subjugated to the withering cross-fire of public ridicule. If you're really putting something forward that's worth saying, you'll get support. At the same time, recognize gracefully when you've come at things from the wrong direction.

Lastly, if you outright insult people in forums that I moderate again there will not be a polite, reasoned reply. There will only be an infraction on your account.

But My arguement is not weak and I havnt went about it the wrong way. Plenty of folks agreed on the first pages but when you get mods and lackys coming in throwing insults Id say some people tend to shy away. I havnt been arguing with everyone either. Its the same three or four members that keep posting. Thats Hardly everyone.
You want to give me an infraction? go right ahead. Just know that nothing I posted was any worse than what anyone else (including you) has said to me. Its all in the posts.
p.s. you have mail.

decepta-scott wrote:
But My arguement is not weak and I havnt went about it the wrong way.

You have no proof that TFC is going to make an enormous profit off of their Devastator.

I'm sure they make the profits the need to keep afloat, pay their employees, and grow in the future, to provide us with better products, maybe cheaper ones too. Warbot from Fansproject was a similar price, so was Delicate Warrior.

Without proof your argument comes off as weak, and whiney.

Fact is, Hercules is very expensive, but that's likely the price it needs to be for TFC to be sustainable.

Jesterhead wrote:

decepta-scott wrote:
But My arguement is not weak and I havnt went about it the wrong way.

You have no proof that TFC is going to make an enormous profit off of their Devastator.

I'm sure they make the profits the need to keep afloat, pay their employees, and grow in the future, to provide us with better products, maybe cheaper ones too. Warbot from Fansproject was a similar price, so was Delicate Warrior.

Without proof your argument comes off as weak, and whiney.

Fact is, Hercules is very expensive, but that's likely the price it needs to be for TFC to be sustainable.

But you see my friend you have no proof that they are NOT making a huge profit. Thats the other side of the coin see?
So, you have to look at what is logical. Is it logical to assume that this company is embarking on this huge hard to acomplish task while making minimum proffit, or is it pretty safe to say that they follow suit with every other company and are making max profit.
I swear, What started off as me saying simply that It sucks to pay so much for a figure that I really wanted has mutated into something that I hardly recognize.
If they want to make a killing fine! I cant stop them. I can however wish that they would lower the price so that I can afford it.
Im betting if they lowered their price by 150 dollars (over all) they would do alot better than they are going to do with a 600 plus price tag.
Still, after all this , I am going to find a way to buy this damn thing.
So I guess banking on collectors, blinded by their passion will pay just about anything for a piece they realy want is a good bet.
Take care and thank you for sparing me the insults and sarcastic remarks.