The Energon Pub

Why Hasbro, these feel like cheap KO's. I have to rant because they feel inferior to everything you have put out. I got BW toys from '96 that feel like a toy compared to these hollow terrible plastic pieces of crap you call ingenuity.

The FE should have been the actual line. Instead these are not even fit for kids. My son has 'Bee, CJ, and WJ, and they are terrible. My wife has FE Pink Arcee and Fe Cliffjumper and comapred the two all on my own to the RID counterparts. I tried in every way to think of why they (Hasbro)thought this should be the main line. Disgusted.

first Bandai with the bad rendition of megazords for Samurai which aren't even close to the Sentai counterpart. I could see a loss of paint apps but it's like a whole different toy with terrible build quality.

Now Hasbro you tease us with FE's and turn around and release garbage. They don't even feel like deluxes. Why are American companies giving us less, and even from a kids perspective he my son was not impressed.

Hasbro get your act together. I know my loss of dollars is insignificant, but this is drawing the line.

At least Soundwave is pretty great, but yeah everything else from the RID first wave is... lackluster to say the least. I do also like the Cyberverse commander Bulkhead, but they're really pushing it with the mini-DVD nonsense(and associated price bump).

Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.

Plastics come from petroleum products. If they had started drilling a long time ago, then there would be sources of cheap petrol. Now countries like Venezuela and Iran have a strangle hold in the market coupled with all their saber rattling!

Again, the WH line would be we can't drill our selves out of this mess, but if they had started drilling years ago, then the return on investment would have been felt by now.

And another thing, though the law of supply and demand should theoretically apply (low demand due to a not so cold winter) would have had ample supply, the wise @ss oil companies are now selling the excess to China hence contributing more to the scarcity which leads to even higher prices.

In the end, its all based on gut feelings on how the prices of petrol spike up or down. This are one of the factors that multinational companies like Hasbro have to consider when rolling new plastic based products.

You'd probably be living in Wonderland if you didn't consider this as among the factors that affects our hobby. The cost of producing stuff like this needs electricity, electricity comes from energon and the more...... ...electricity comes from generators powered by fossil based products aka oil. The cheapest energy source at present. Well technically nuclear is the cheapest.....but the most riskiest to produce. Wind? Don't get me starting how "cheap" it is to produce a megawatt of electricity..............

fenrir72 wrote:Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.

Plastics come from petroleum products. If they had started drilling a long time ago, then there would be sources of cheap petrol. Now countries like Venezuela and Iran have a strangle hold in the market coupled with all their saber rattling!

Again, the WH line would be we can't drill our selves out of this mess, but if they had started drilling years ago, then the return on investment would have been felt by now.

And another thing, though the law of supply and demand should theoretically apply (low demand due to a not so cold winter) would have had ample supply, the wise @ss oil companies are now selling the excess to China hence contributing more to the scarcity which leads to even higher prices.

In the end, its all based on gut feelings on how the prices of petrol spike up or down. This are one of the factors that multinational companies like Hasbro have to consider when rolling new plastic based products.

You'd probably be living in Wonderland if you didn't consider this as among the factors that affects our hobby. The cost of producing stuff like this needs electricity, electricity comes from energon and the more...... ...electricity comes from generators powered by fossil based products aka oil. The cheapest energy source at present. Well technically nuclear is the cheapest.....but the most riskiest to produce. Wind? Don't get me starting how "cheap" it is to produce a megawatt of electricity..............

Couldn't have said it better my friend. I don't pretend that McCain would have been a great president, but...he would have done better than Obama has done (which is to say, drive the country into massive debt and try very hard to put through congress bills that would utterly CRIPPLE the domestic coal and oil economies).

Seriously? We do not need a political debate when there are much more important issues to discuss...namely toys

LOST Cybertronian wrote:Seriously? We do not need a political debate when there are much more important issues to discuss...namely toys

Haha, you make a good point, sir. But sometimes the real world gets in the way of a good hobby.

RAcast wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.
...

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Presidents and Government don't control prices like you think they do

Mkall wrote:

RAcast wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.
...

...

Presidents and Government don't control prices like you think they do

Gas prices however, do. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that a little drilling can magically drop gas prices significantly in the short term, but it's a long-term investment. ALL good economic practices are long-term investments. Of course, that makes the any democratic government (the Indian and US governments particularly come to mind) BAD at making good economic decisions; long-term goals are seldom in mind when there's an election every four years. Long-term goals is the one thing that China does really, REALLY right...of course the civil unrest that's building right now might make that a moot point if there's a civil war.

Mkall wrote:

RAcast wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.
...

...

Presidents and Government don't control prices like you think they do

Turning down the construction of an oil pipeline, which would have brought both fuel and jobs sure can do that...Like Obama did.

Flakmaster wrote:

Mkall wrote:

RAcast wrote:

fenrir72 wrote:Blame it on Obama! Seriously, the namby pamby approach to oil drilling/going environmental is a factor.
...

...

Presidents and Government don't control prices like you think they do

Turning down the construction of an oil pipeline, which would have brought both fuel and jobs sure can do that...Like Obama did.

All right, heated issue to be sure, with easy accusations to make on all sides. This is a toys forum, not a politcal soapbox and I regret getting involved.

Regardless of the amount of plastic involved (both quantity-wise and cost-wise), there's no denying that these sculpts and some of the paint seem to be of lower quality than the FE line. I really like my CLiff and WJ, but compared to the quality of sculpting of the FE figures, they're just not as good. It's especailly evident to me in FE Arcee and PRID Arcee. I don't feel that there's enough of a size reduction between the lines to have that drop in quality of sculpt and paint.

Don't get me wrong, I like the PRID figures, but they should have been higher in quality.

I know there is no magic fix to increase or decrease the prices of oil. Even if the current administration suddenly changes policy, it would take yearsssssssss before the actions start being felt by the consumer. But we all should know, remove politics for a moment then and go straight to economics (which greatly affects our hobby)101.

Transformers figures are made out of PVC,ABS and a bit of die-cast. The first two come from petrol by products. The last from mines (iron ore etc). How pre tell do you extract them? By using fossil fuel powered machines. Fossil fuel comes from, well the dirty icky oil wells. If there were a lot of available oil wells (ones with confirmed output), then the stupid speculators won't even be interested in mucking up the prices, which affects the consumer with a $ 4.00 a gallon or worst cost.

Just like certain TF molds, our bane......the toy scalpers. By hoarding the limited figures, there is created an artificial shortage that results to higher prices. It all goes down once fresh deliveries come out at our local TRU. Heck, scalpers are making a killing with the mucked up distribution snafu with the FE.

So the high cost we are now experiencing (not to mention the sucky credit rating the US is suffering thanks to the all the debt wracked up by past and present administrations (Republican and Democrat...........okay more during Bush II and even more with the present)is a result of this confluence of events.

Where once we have Voyager sized figs to leader as a norm, now we get deluxes. Why? Of course the various factors I mentioned. It ain't that cut and dried but all are intertwined.

In an analogy, pretend I'm Hasbro. I want to make billions of dollars by sucking every morsel of cash from our loving public pockets. So I'll produce, using CAPITAL, some new product that is sure to sell. Example the Prime series. But before it goes to the design process, the project is budgeted so as to ensure the bottom line is attained.

I pay for the concept, engineering design, raw materials, cost of manufacturing, advertisement, labor, legal and transport etc. I want to make a PROFIT! So what next,a designer pitches this for example MP Grimlock with all the bells and whistles. But wait, by including the crown, it would go waaaaaaaaaaaay beyond the computed budget. Then the guys get a memo, maybe we should remove a feature here, shave a part there, buy cheaper plastic materials etc. Get my drift?

All of this activities are dependent on cheap manufacturing costs (electricity and transport) all of which, again runs of fossil fuels which are abundant but not being put to use in the good old USA.

If America just starts tapping into more of its reserves, lower the cost of manufacturing and labor, maybe, just maybe, we could all go back again to the time when a lot of kick @ss toys are "Made in the USA" again. Iirc Deadmetal opined the possibility or hope of seeing a made in the USA TF product. Made from a collaborative USA/Japanese design team and manufactured by American laborers who can tell the difference between a AAA battery from a CR32 type cell (this btw happened to my MP Grimlock........wrong batteries). So maybe no more of this idiotic QC issues.

I hear ya' fenrir72, but I don't buy it. Thoughyour point would do well if you were a Hasbro executive explaining this to stockholders, but I really don't think that is the case.

I don't try to justify, excuse , or explain why we got a whole different mold and a smaller figure because like all companies they are out to make money.

There was an incident with Capcom, a game called Street Fighter X tekken and DLC. I won't explain but look it up. people have tried to justify what Capcom did with all these reasons.

I won't even read it.

It's greed. They knew what they were going to do from the giddy up. I can care less about oil plastic and Obama. Personally it's hogwash. Not that I am trying to bash you but trying to rationalize why a company remade the molds due to a looming crisis, come on man. you're not Hasbro and IMO I don't think it is the reason at all.


Kinda derails the point that the molds are bad and just not up to standard. I'm mad. my one favorite hobby is ruined by incompetence and greed.

Heck I'm not asking anyone to agree with me or give me explanations. I follow an old standard, excuses don't excuse, and explanations don't explain.

If you are pleased with the RID molds then good for you.

@ bvzka

I am no Hasbro stoogie. Even more the recent trend of DLC in console games (I'll get to that later)

No,I'm not happy with the RID situation. If it were up to me, Hasbro should have stuck with a uniform size for this particular series.

Haven't you noticed? Not only in toys but even among our grocery items, everything is being downsized! From M 7 M to potato chips etc.

Now as for the DLC.........let me sum it in two words..........."It SUCKS!" I mean years ago, when you buy a game, you get the entire content.....for free, because you bought. Now, you not only bought the software, you have to pay(?) to unlock the contents..........wtf?!

I won't even go to cr@p Capcom pulled with Streetfighter IV and UMVC.......talk about bleeding us dry!

bvzxa wrote:Why Hasbro, these feel like cheap KO's. I have to rant because they feel inferior to everything you have put out. I got BW toys from '96 that feel like a toy compared to these hollow terrible plastic pieces of crap you call ingenuity.

I have some Beast Wars figures laying about. Magnaboss, Tripredacus, Magmatron, Slapper, Gasskunk, etc, you get the idea. Yeah, some of them are rock solid compared to some of the plastics and overall figures offered today. It's kinda weird. The weight's the first dead giveaway.

However, that era suffered from GPS like crazy. Now the A/E/C trilogy is suffering from T/CPS (Translucent/Clear Plastic Syndrome). With most of the PRID figures having translucent plastic...it's just a matter of time before they crumble. Heck, my Voyager Megatron has stressmarks on the pin hole that works as the hinge for his waist/leg assembly. It's okay, right now. In a few years? I can only hope for the best. I could buy another Megatron as a back up, but should I have to?

But, figures that have solid plastics such as Bumblebee, should hold up rather well.

bvzxa wrote:The FE should have been the actual line. Instead these are not even fit for kids. My son has 'Bee, CJ, and WJ, and they are terrible. My wife has FE Pink Arcee and Fe Cliffjumper and comapred the two all on my own to the RID counterparts. I tried in every way to think of why they (Hasbro)thought this should be the main line. Disgusted.

I agree, but Peaugh made a very good point in one of his review videos: "Go with the First Edition, if you can, because it's more show accurate. But, if you want a TOY you can PLAY with, then Robots In Disguise figures are the toys for you." (Not the exact wording, but 95% close to it.)

First Editions, while playable, do require some transform skill. Vehicon? One of the trickier ones. Impossible? No. Could drive a kid nuts, though.

I agree that First Edition should be the main line, I also find it ridiculously wasteful for them to have made TWO molds of the SAME character in the SAME size class. That just makes no sense to me. It's one thing to have a repaint of TF1 Optimus in ROTF, to fill a shelf space, only to have it followed up by Battle Blades Optimus in HFTD. Two different molds for one character in the same universe, but two totally different figures in two different toy lines. This is the second time I've seen a company offer such a situation.

The other? Bandai. Power Rangers Jungle Fury. (You know what I'm talking about. But, for those who don't...) They had two, electronic, fully deluxe Megazords. Japanese imports, repacked and missing the die-cast metal. On the same shelf, or one below...a $20.00 version of the first Megazord, minus the gimmicks, but it worked with the rest of the auxiliary Zords. Which is where they get ya. They always do. You know this better than anyone, seeing as we're both Rangerboard members.

However, Bandai learned from that and stuck with the transforming Zords and dropped the deluxes altogether. Hasbro, unlike Bandai with aux Zords, has nothing to justify this move, or supplement the figures to make the change worth it. A total waste of money.

bvzxa wrote:first Bandai with the bad rendition of megazords for Samurai which aren't even close to the Sentai counterpart. I could see a loss of paint apps but it's like a whole different toy with terrible build quality.

I'm going to be fair to Bandai, here.
For the past few years, Power Rangers had been on a steep decline. Shows weren't being aired due to the broadcasters unwilling to find airtime, toys weren't the #1 anymore, no movies, and everyone thought RPM was the end.

Samurai, while not perfect, has far surpassed most expectations. We finally got a Rita figure, while it's sad she sucks, we did get one. We're receiving US only items, such as the Shogun Buckle, the Shogun Ranger from the Bull/Gigazord cockpit, plus the full Gigazord set. I admit, I'm not pleased with the lack of emblem modes on the Samurai Megazord, plus distribution of the Octozord, but we are getting the full set, plus Zords never seen before. It's not perfect, but in some ways it's better. At least Bandai gave us that much, at least they're catering to all their fans, adult collectors included, not just kid core audience. Hasbro? Not even close. They've even said we mean nothing to them. (In nicer, PC words, but that's how it really is.)

bvzxa wrote:Now Hasbro you tease us with FE's and turn around and release garbage. They don't even feel like deluxes. Why are American companies giving us less, and even from a kids perspective he my son was not impressed.

Because I think the economy is much worse than we've been led to believe. Or, to be fair, let's say it's doing as well as they claim for a sec, that means Hasbro really doesn't know their @$$ from a hole in the ground. But, I firmly believe the economy sucks and Hasbro's running their ship aground.

bvzxa wrote:Hasbro get your act together. I know my loss of dollars is insignificant, but this is drawing the line.

It is frustrating. Doesn't make a lick of sense.

RAcast wrote:At least Soundwave is pretty great, but yeah everything else from the RID first wave is... lackluster to say the least. I do also like the Cyberverse commander Bulkhead, but they're really pushing it with the mini-DVD nonsense(and associated price bump).

I agree on Soundwave. He's one of the only good PRID figures, but he's also a pretty good TF, in general. He can stand proudly among the past heavyweights. Yeah, the Cyberverse pricing point is ridiculous, but Hasbro's smart. The weapons can be used with the Deluxes and Voyagers. In fact, a poster over at TFW showed a picture proving that the Cyberverse version's weapons will work on the First Edition Deluxe and give him show accurate weapons. Just snaps onto the arm and hides his folded up fist. I have a feeling we'll see more of that pop up as the line goes on. The Mini-DVD, I hear, has not even a full episode of the show, but one of those webisodes kinda things they used to do. If so, that sucks even more.

bvzxa wrote:There was an incident with Capcom, a game called Street Fighter X tekken and DLC. I won't explain but look it up. people have tried to justify what Capcom did with all these reasons.

I won't even read it.

Ah, yes. This again. They pulled it with Sonic Generations. Casino Night mini game for $1.59, when it's already embedded in the game. Hackers and pirates had figured out how to unlock the game long before Steam released it. Which, btw suffered from VALVetime. (I.E. came out waaaaay after the original release date was promised.)

Took 'em, I think...three weeks after the promised date, to finally get it out there...

Didn't the PC version of WFC have the DLC bots for the multiplayer and there were ways to hack 'em free for use? I could've sworn that was it, or something like it.

They do it to cut costs and you just pay for the unlock code, plus no bandwidth on their servers, plus no extra plastic to produce for the disc(s), but still...crappy.

I can't believe anyone is complaining that WJ is weak and flimsy. He feels sturdy enough to me, even solid and strong. Sure, Soundwave is a bit delicate but what do you expect - he's no warrior and he looks exactly like the cartoon counterpart. Have you handled FE Starscream? He's not exactly robust either ya know.

RAcast wrote:At least Soundwave is pretty great, but yeah everything else from the RID first wave is... lackluster to say the least. I do also like the Cyberverse commander Bulkhead, but they're really pushing it with the mini-DVD nonsense(and associated price bump).

Ironically, I have no qualms with any RID figures I've gotten so far other than Soundwave. I know he's getting a lot of love right now, but man, what a scrawny piece of crap.

The only god awful toys in the first wave of PRID is Optimus and Bee. The moneymakers. Everyone else is decent enough to pick up. Megatron's tranculent plastic actually works because it's Dark Energon. Soundwave and Wheeljack are excellent representations, and it all depends on reference with Cliff. Regardless on how much crap Optimus and Bee are, I've already begun to pick them up anyway, only to fill spots for my FE's to come.

However, FE also had some awful toys as well. For Example:
* Vehicon. Reason: Kibble. Probably too many burgers.
* Arcee. Reason: Too Tall, and Funky Shoulders. The paint's accurate though

So we, or I at least, can't beat up one line without beating up the other. FE isn't perfect either, and again. Not many of us can get this through our heads, but this is a toy company. Out to sell toys. Out to sell to kids. They cannot cater to the collectors all the time. They gave us Wave 1 of FE and told us to screw off by releasing the PRID.

I wouldn't dump the whole line yet. We've still got great figures like Vehicon, Ratchet, Arcee, and Hot Shot (Yes, I said it) coming our way. If you like some PRIDs and some FEs, get them both. Satisfy yourself that way.

I'm going to be honest- I think the only way to remedy this situation is to simply not buy any of the RID stuff if you don't like it. I personally bought the entire wave 1 (except Bumblebee) and I must say as far as quality is concerned Wheeljack, Megatron, and Soundwave are good- Soundwave and Wheeljack are great in my opinion. Megs works for me. Optimus and Cliffjumper, ehh. There's something off about Cliffjumper. I don't know that FE Cliffjumper is better (maybe better proportioned?) but Optimus Prime- FE wins hands down. Though the RID is kind of neat the FE looks like a masterpiece in comparison. I say if you really don't like RID stick with FE. It's more expensive but at least you'll get what you want and I'd say that's worth it. I may return Cliff and Prime and buy the FE's instead but that's because as a fan of TF Prime I want some really good figures and right now those are the best representations of those specific characters.

Of course the economy is bad. Buy what means most to you. As for the overall dip in quality I think it's a combination of economy and greed. Hasbro knows they can churn out subpar toys and people will pay jacked up prices for their kids (see TF 07, ROTF, and to a lesser degree DOTM). You can see the movieverse influence in the RID Prime toys (as unfortunate as that is). I got excited for this line because of the FE (thinking that's what we'd be getting throughout).

I say don't buy the stuff, not even for your kids. Go on ebay and grab a few Classics, G1, Beast Wars, Animated, or FE for them. Look at the quality of Beast Wars (outstanding) Those came out during our nation's economic peak (mid to late 1990s) It's no coincidence that now during a period of economic struggle we find these subpar toys on the shelves.

fenrir72 wrote:@ bvzka

I am no Hasbro stoogie. Even more the recent trend of DLC in console games (I'll get to that later)

No,I'm not happy with the RID situation. If it were up to me, Hasbro should have stuck with a uniform size for this particular series.

Haven't you noticed? Not only in toys but even among our grocery items, everything is being downsized! From M 7 M to potato chips etc.

Now as for the DLC.........let me sum it in two words..........."It SUCKS!" I mean years ago, when you buy a game, you get the entire content.....for free, because you bought. Now, you not only bought the software, you have to pay(?) to unlock the contents..........wtf?!

I won't even go to cr@p Capcom pulled with Streetfighter IV and UMVC.......talk about bleeding us dry!

yeah. I was stocking the frozen section at Walmart back in '08, a lady remarked at how everything is getting higher in price, and yet getting smaller in size..

yeah the DLC thing is something else....I'm one of the people who busted Capcom by posting the DLC endings on youtube. Capcom shut me down.

dinojack86 wrote:I'm going to be honest- I think the only way to remedy this situation is to simply not buy any of the RID stuff if you don't like it. I personally bought the entire wave 1 (except Bumblebee) and I must say as far as quality is concerned Wheeljack, Megatron, and Soundwave are good- Soundwave and Wheeljack are great in my opinion. Megs works for me. Optimus and Cliffjumper, ehh. There's something off about Cliffjumper. I don't know that FE Cliffjumper is better (maybe better proportioned?) but Optimus Prime- FE wins hands down. Though the RID is kind of neat the FE looks like a masterpiece in comparison. I say if you really don't like RID stick with FE. It's more expensive but at least you'll get what you want and I'd say that's worth it. I may return Cliff and Prime and buy the FE's instead but that's because as a fan of TF Prime I want some really good figures and right now those are the best representations of those specific characters.

Of course the economy is bad. Buy what means most to you. As for the overall dip in quality I think it's a combination of economy and greed. Hasbro knows they can churn out subpar toys and people will pay jacked up prices for their kids (see TF 07, ROTF, and to a lesser degree DOTM). You can see the movieverse influence in the RID Prime toys (as unfortunate as that is). I got excited for this line because of the FE (thinking that's what we'd be getting throughout).

I say don't buy the stuff, not even for your kids. Go on ebay and grab a few Classics, G1, Beast Wars, Animated, or FE for them. Look at the quality of Beast Wars (outstanding) Those came out during our nation's economic peak (mid to late 1990s) It's no coincidence that now during a period of economic struggle we find these subpar toys on the shelves.

I don't have a lot of the '07 toys, but ROTF was pretty darn good as far as quality.

Yeah I think I will be reserved with the RID line, but Hasbro needs to bring back the FE's one more time for those that never got to see them in their area. This is as bad as Hot Wheel treasure hunts which you had to race to the major retailers to find them.

I wish I knew what I know now about the overall RID line because everyone I played with was not good. I have Soundwave MIB, and another one MIB. I kept Ratchet but the rest I am dumping on ebay. I'm going old school collecting which is more fun. I still like the TF Prime show though.

dinojack86 wrote:I'm going to be honest- I think the only way to remedy this situation is to simply not buy any of the RID stuff if you don't like it.

Exactly.

After seeing the toys first appear online, especially Ratchet, it was almost obvious that the quality was going down. poopy paint schemes and simple transformations means production costs were cut. When that happens, what suffers? Quality. So way back then I decided to not buy the line. I bought the entertainment pack of deluxe Prime and Megatron, and got FE Arcee in a trade. That's it. I thought about getting Voyager Prime and Megatron until I saw them on the shelves. The deluxes show off so much better, due to detail and paint apps.

Yeah, Hasbro is a toy company, selling to kids. They probably gave us collectors the FE line to somewhat satisfy us. Knowing some of their past moves, when it comes to the FE stuff, I say count our blessings and move on. If you still want the whole PRID line, go for it. But have realistic expectations.

I love Wheeljack, don't get all the praise for Soundwave. Is it just some sort of subconscious thing because of how hard it supposedly is to find one since they're shortpacked? I didn't have much trouble finding one, and don't think it's that great. Not a garbage figure, but certainly not the cream of the crop.

Anyway, one of my biggest gripes with the line is the lack of faction symbols on the deluxes. What the frick, Hasbro?

Sure, I could buy a sheet of reprolabels or something, but while I appreciate what those guys do, I'm not fond of having to apply stickers to anything except vintage figures from the era when such things were the norm.

In defense of Soundwave...there's just something about him that's cool. For starters there aren't very many (if any other) UAV transformers, and his transformation scheme is certainly quite unique. I can't think of any other jet/plane-former whose wings themselves actually become their arms. He's got effectively no kibble (if that's a thing you worry about), a great amount of posability due to hinges and joints EVERYWHERE, and his aesthetic is just great.
Besides, how can you not love the silent menace of Laserbeak perched on his arm?

RAcast wrote:In defense of Soundwave...there's just something about him that's cool. For starters there aren't very many (if any other) UAV transformers, and his transformation scheme is certainly quite unique. I can't think of any other jet/plane-former whose wings themselves actually become their arms. He's got effectively no kibble (if that's a thing you worry about), a great amount of posability due to hinges and joints EVERYWHERE, and his aesthetic is just great.
Besides, how can you not love the silent menace of Laserbeak perched on his arm?

He's also quite show-accurate.