The Energon Pub

I think that Cyber Bishop is right, this thread has terned into one giant mob argument.
If this were real life and not an on-line message bored, someone would have caled the cops by now.

bloodyfeast wrote:Instead of all this circling debate you should all look at the toys that you love for inspiration. They hold all the moral answers.
Decepticons vs. Autobots

Decepticons (collectors) seem to always be attacking the Autobots (scalpers), acting out of a selfish sense of greed and power. They want control (msrp, clearance items) but lack the skills to maintain the power and usually lose it pretty fast. They suffer in fighting because they are all looking out for themselves first and foremost.

The Autobots are bringing the figures to the open market. They destroy the evilness that is american retail, after all, hasbro will not even ship internationally. What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

Interesting way of putting things....

And the Comic shop guys buying up all the cool toys is JUSTICE. They are not like these big retailers, most comic shop guys love comics and that whole culture... thats why they do what they do in most cases. Why should the most sincere retailer be cut out of the retail chain because one 'huge' toy company decided to only sell their toys to 'huge' retailers??? I think you guys who love Target, Walmart and Toys r us and their monopoly on everything are the ones who feed scalpers. You need to get the toys oh so cheap and oh so conveniently. I hate that all of you are so up big business' big ole behind.

bloodyfeast wrote:Instead of all this circling debate you should all look at the toys that you love for inspiration. They hold all the moral answers.
Decepticons vs. Autobots

Decepticons (collectors) seem to always be attacking the Autobots (scalpers), acting out of a selfish sense of greed and power. They want control (msrp, clearance items) but lack the skills to maintain the power and usually lose it pretty fast. They suffer in fighting because they are all looking out for themselves first and foremost.

The Autobots are bringing the figures to the open market. They destroy the evilness that is american retail, after all, hasbro will not even ship internationally. What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

That has got to be the stupidest post ever written.

Toyotus Superion wrote:

bloodyfeast wrote:Instead of all this circling debate you should all look at the toys that you love for inspiration. They hold all the moral answers.
Decepticons vs. Autobots

Decepticons (collectors) seem to always be attacking the Autobots (scalpers), acting out of a selfish sense of greed and power. They want control (msrp, clearance items) but lack the skills to maintain the power and usually lose it pretty fast. They suffer in fighting because they are all looking out for themselves first and foremost.

The Autobots are bringing the figures to the open market. They destroy the evilness that is american retail, after all, hasbro will not even ship internationally. What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

That has got to be the stupidest post ever written.

Easily. Yikes... Put that in the post of shame...

bloodyfeast wrote:Instead of all this circling debate you should all look at the toys that you love for inspiration. They hold all the moral answers.
Decepticons vs. Autobots

Decepticons (collectors) seem to always be attacking the Autobots (scalpers), acting out of a selfish sense of greed and power. They want control (msrp, clearance items) but lack the skills to maintain the power and usually lose it pretty fast. They suffer in fighting because they are all looking out for themselves first and foremost.

The Autobots are bringing the figures to the open market. They destroy the evilness that is american retail, after all, hasbro will not even ship internationally. What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

i do not understand the idea of this post. is this a parody or an attempt at humor?

i for one cannot compare autobots to scalpers.

SCALPERS are: people who hunt and buy/hoard/whatever you call it -> TFs that are either hot/in demand/not on the market yet -> and sell/auction it for a much higher fee than what is normally reasonable. that is scalping IMHO, and please take my definition of it word-for-word and do not misconstrue it so that there will be no cause for debate.

besides, scalpers do it FOR PROFIT, no matter what the scalper-supporting people in this thread may say. it's always profit, and helping other people is just second tier or even not a priority at all.

autobots, on the other hand, do it for free. heck, if they operated the way scalpers do right now, prime woulda charged energon cubes by the truckload for all their trouble protecting earth and all its fleshy little inhabitants.

Target, kmart, toys r us and big W (I think this is Walmart but I could be wrong) all charge over double the price in Australia. Is this scalping? What about when they do it in england? It stings just as much. What use are store exclusives when you can't get to that store? Most auctions are driven by the market, it helps people get things that are extremely popular. All these selfish "me, me, me" arguments but forward by collectors are making me sick. I am not a scalper and not really a collector, I am a transformers fan who has a few transformers.

bloodyfeast wrote:Target, kmart, toys r us and big W (I think this is Walmart but I could be wrong) all charge over double the price in Australia. Is this scalping? What about when they do it in england? It stings just as much. What use are store exclusives when you can't get to that store? Most auctions are driven by the market, it helps people get things that are extremely popular. All these selfish "me, me, me" arguments but forward by collectors are making me sick. I am not a scalper and not really a collector, I am a transformers fan who has a few transformers.

im guessing its because it costs more money for hasbro to ship to other countries and overseas, therefore they charge more. but i could be wrong, just a thought.

bloodyfeast wrote:Target, kmart, toys r us and big W (I think this is Walmart but I could be wrong) all charge over double the price in Australia. Is this scalping? What about when they do it in england? It stings just as much. What use are store exclusives when you can't get to that store? Most auctions are driven by the market, it helps people get things that are extremely popular. All these selfish "me, me, me" arguments but forward by collectors are making me sick. I am not a scalper and not really a collector, I am a transformers fan who has a few transformers.

Um, if you are neither a collector, nor a scalper, then what good is your view on the topic?

So it costs Hasbro more than it costs scalpers? I honestly don't see your case. It's because big business is profiteering.

bloodyfeast wrote:All these selfish "me, me, me" arguments but forward by collectors are making me sick.

hmm, isn't TF collecting, or any other collecting hobby, inherently selfish in the first place? that's why it's called collecting. it's for YOUR SELF, not for others. if it wasn't, people would be giving away free transformers now and then out of pure love of others now would they?

as for trying to destroy an evil institution, it could be done without resorting to scalping. if you want to destroy an evil institution, especially one that involves commerce, DO IT without REAPING PROFITS, as profiteering is an integral part of the "evil american retail" system that the idea you have posted is trying to destroy. as i have said before, scalpers do it for the profit.

on store exclusives, try to look at it this way... sure scalpers may get these exclusives to other people who do not have access to that particular store, but at the same time, THEY DEPRIVE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT STORE IN THE FIRST PLACE. so there is no sense in arguing this for the defense of scalpers. whatever they do, they deprive people one way or another. no argument on that.

bloodyfeast wrote:What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

fair? tell if charging $32 or even $18 w/o shipping for a deluxe is fair. what they do is create a false sense of demand that only aggravates newbies to the genre to go desperate and feed the scalper's profit margins by bidding recklessly and driving prices up.

you want fair, then scalpers should sell it at a little over MSRP only. if they can't pay eBay fees, then there are other media on the internet available like forums/websites/etc. where they can sell without paying extra fees.

in my opinion, i find it lame that other people use these eBay fees as an excuse to jack up TF starting bid prices. that's looking out for profits. THAT'S SELFISH.

fair? tell if charging $32 or even $18 w/o shipping for a deluxe is fair. what they do is create a false sense of demand that only aggravates newbies to the genre to go desperate and feed the scalper's profit margins by bidding recklessly and driving prices up.

The Aussie dollar is about 90 US cents maybe a bit less. not too sure.

These are our Actual Retail Prices

Movie Ultimate $120 @ Target
Movie Leader $100 @ TRU $88 @ Big W
Movie Voyager $50 @ Target $45 @ kmart $40 @ Big W
Movie Deluxe $30 @ TRU, Target and Kmart $25 @ big W

Classics Voyager $45
Classics Deluxe $25-28

That is without shipping in a store. And you still can't find them. Most of these toys are below retail even with shipping for us.

Um, if you are neither a collector, nor a scalper, then what good is your view on the topic?

I am a fan with an interest in the toys. I have a few movie toys and even more classics. I'm simply trying to advance an argument as an "interested 3rd party". Is this not allowed?

bloodyfeast wrote:

fair? tell if charging $32 or even $18 w/o shipping for a deluxe is fair. what they do is create a false sense of demand that only aggravates newbies to the genre to go desperate and feed the scalper's profit margins by bidding recklessly and driving prices up.

The Aussie dollar is about 90 US cents maybe a bit less. not too sure.

These are our Actual Retail Prices

Movie Ultimate $120 @ Target
Movie Leader $100 @ TRU $88 @ Big W
Movie Voyager $50 @ Target $45 @ kmart $40 @ Big W
Movie Deluxe $30 @ TRU, Target and Kmart $25 @ big W

Classics Voyager $45
Classics Deluxe $25-28

That is without shipping in a store. And you still can't find them. Most of these toys are below retail even with shipping for us.

how about here in the Philippines?

using XE.com, retail prices for the following (rounded off to the nearest AU dollar):

Movie Ultimate Php 5999 = $ 160 AUD
Movie Leader Php 2999 = $80 AUD
Movie Voyager Php 1350 = $35 AUD
Movie Deluxe Php 699 = $19 AUD

aside from UBB and leader classes, the differences between our retail prices are slight markups. but the difference is the income generating-power of aussies vs. pinoys (off topic). simply put, you aussies earn much more per day compared to us.

distro sucks even more for us too, more than you guys there.

We complain about having to pay higher prices here in the U.S.- I do it all the time, but are we too spoiled by major retailers such as WM and Target? Companies whose sole intention is the destruction of private toy stores. Eventually "real" toy stores will not exist b/c they are being cut out of the market by guys who seller cheaper and form exclusive deals with toy manufacturers. I feel bad, b/c one day my son wont be able to walk into a toy store. We will only be able to order toys online or buy it at a "superstore" who could care less about toy shipments.

zemper wrote:

bloodyfeast wrote:All these selfish "me, me, me" arguments but forward by collectors are making me sick.

hmm, isn't TF collecting, or any other collecting hobby, inherently selfish in the first place? that's why it's called collecting. it's for YOUR SELF, not for others. if it wasn't, people would be giving away free transformers now and then out of pure love of others now would they?

as for trying to destroy an evil institution, it could be done without resorting to scalping. if you want to destroy an evil institution, especially one that involves commerce, DO IT without REAPING PROFITS, as profiteering is an integral part of the "evil american retail" system that the idea you have posted is trying to destroy. as i have said before, scalpers do it for the profit.

on store exclusives, try to look at it this way... sure scalpers may get these exclusives to other people who do not have access to that particular store, but at the same time, THEY DEPRIVE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ACCESS TO THAT STORE IN THE FIRST PLACE. so there is no sense in arguing this for the defense of scalpers. whatever they do, they deprive people one way or another. no argument on that.

bloodyfeast wrote:What they do makes the world fair and even for all sentinal beings to obtain these awesome toys... not just the decepticons in middle america who want to hold them prisoner for the rest of their days.

fair? tell if charging $32 or even $18 w/o shipping for a deluxe is fair. what they do is create a false sense of demand that only aggravates newbies to the genre to go desperate and feed the scalper's profit margins by bidding recklessly and driving prices up.

you want fair, then scalpers should sell it at a little over MSRP only. if they can't pay eBay fees, then there are other media on the internet available like forums/websites/etc. where they can sell without paying extra fees.

in my opinion, i find it lame that other people use these eBay fees as an excuse to jack up TF starting bid prices. that's looking out for profits. THAT'S SELFISH.

Of course selling on eBay is all about the profit. If there was no money in it, why would sellers even bother? Making a profit is not an evil concept. Sellers can set their price. Bidders know what they are paying up front and enter into an agreement. If both parties agree, business is done.

There realy is not that much profit in it anyway. I believe that eBay sales of in-demand Transformers represent a miniscule amount of the figures out there. Right now there are just over 100 auctions for concept Camaro Bumblebee. This is a small drop in a huge bucket. The big retailers are buying these in the tens of thousands. Volume = better business.

E-bay sellers are scraping by making a few quick bucks that the buyer agreed to pay. No harm done in a mutual transaction. The bidders actually help set the price. Sellers listing Buy-it-nows (BIN) are just listing theirs at a price that is close to what most bidders are going up to anyway. The difference is that with the BIN sales, they can complete a transaction without having to wait until the end of the auction. If the BIN price is too high, the item does not sell.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:Of course selling on eBay is all about the profit. If there was no money in it, why would sellers even bother? Making a profit is not an evil concept.

no, i was not implying it was evil. without profits, businesses wouldn't flourish in the first place. but excessive profits are tEh suck. if you all read my posts beforehand, scalpers are people who (insert your definition here) and put excessive dollars on TOP of the overhead costs for shipping a certain TF.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:E-bay sellers are scraping by making a few quick bucks that the buyer agreed to pay. No harm done in a mutual transaction. The bidders actually help set the price. Sellers listing Buy-it-nows (BIN) are just listing theirs at a price that is close to what most bidders are going up to anyway. The difference is that with the BIN sales, they can complete a transaction without having to wait until the end of the auction. If the BIN price is too high, the item does not sell.

i agree with this. i totally agree. what i have been trying (and maybe failing) to point out is that i have a clear definition of an ordinary seller and a scalper. scalpers are all about hoarding AND profits galore, unlike ordinary sellers. ain't nothing wrong with making a profit as long as it is not too much.

that's why i always keep on pointing out the $32 BIN price. to me, it's a lame reason that because the current trend for the ave. winning bid of a certain fig is $30-40, the seller should set a BIN at that level. basically, BINs are like selling in the most basic sense - it's not an auction anymore. it's selling with an large profit margin.

and what was that i was saying about scalping and profits?...

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Bonger wrote:So the problem is the members and not the topic. I say suspend the members not being courteous and then we can have a fun debate without people getting upset.

Then you would be one of the people that would be suspended due to some complaints I have received against you for this thread.

There are about 6 or 7 members that we keep getting complaints about.

Hah, for what personal attack? I do not believe I used anyones name. Or was it for sticking up for old contributing members of this forum being visciously attacked by noobs with myopic views of the world?

However, if I did indeed launch a personal attack against another poster, by all means, I deserve a suspension as well.

But when someone attacks Seibertron, calling him a scalper, I call for that member being banned. Such a person is not contributing anything of worth here and has no sense of respect or protocol.

Someone needs to take out the trash.

bloodyfeast wrote:So it costs Hasbro more than it costs scalpers? I honestly don't see your case. It's because big business is profiteering.

well, when big companies ship overseas.... in this case hasbro(U.S.) has to ship over the atlantic to europe or over the pacific to australia, im sure there are many strict laws and regulations that they have to meet. when big companies shipping to other countries they just dont bubble wrap a couple of boxes and let fedex handle the rest.... im pretty sure hasbro has to buy containers to put on cargo ships, paying for fees to get their bulk of toys shipped across, or maybe they might even choose to ship through airmail.... it will costs a lot money to ship overseas, especially when its thousands of toys and not just one figure. on the other hand, scalpers just usaually ship one figure at a time. now they can simply bubble wrap a fig and box it up and let fedex take care of it.... and also, i dont get why ebay sellers have to charge so much for shipping.... and believe me they are not high because theyre sending through next day airmail.

honestly, i dont see why people have the mentality of "oh, i have to buy toys so i can make money off of them."

Bonger wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Bonger wrote:So the problem is the members and not the topic. I say suspend the members not being courteous and then we can have a fun debate without people getting upset.

Then you would be one of the people that would be suspended due to some complaints I have received against you for this thread.

There are about 6 or 7 members that we keep getting complaints about.

Hah, for what personal attack? I do not believe I used anyones name. Or was it for sticking up for old contributing members of this forum being visciously attacked by noobs with myopic views of the world?

However, if I did indeed launch a personal attack against another poster, by all means, I deserve a suspension as well.

But when someone attacks Seibertron, calling him a scalper, I call for that member being banned. Such a person is not contributing anything of worth here and has no sense of respect or protocol.

Someone needs to take out the trash.

Some people here are a little thin-armored....any insult hurts them to their very spark. Don't worry bonger, I didnt see you do anything horrible lol

Toyotus Superion wrote:

Bonger wrote:

Cyber Bishop wrote:

Bonger wrote:So the problem is the members and not the topic. I say suspend the members not being courteous and then we can have a fun debate without people getting upset.

Then you would be one of the people that would be suspended due to some complaints I have received against you for this thread.

There are about 6 or 7 members that we keep getting complaints about.

Hah, for what personal attack? I do not believe I used anyones name. Or was it for sticking up for old contributing members of this forum being visciously attacked by noobs with myopic views of the world?

However, if I did indeed launch a personal attack against another poster, by all means, I deserve a suspension as well.

But when someone attacks Seibertron, calling him a scalper, I call for that member being banned. Such a person is not contributing anything of worth here and has no sense of respect or protocol.

Someone needs to take out the trash.

Some people here are a little thin-armored....any insult hurts them to their very spark. Don't worry bonger, I didnt see you do anything horrible lol

tom brokaw wrote:

bloodyfeast wrote:So it costs Hasbro more than it costs scalpers? I honestly don't see your case. It's because big business is profiteering.

well, when big companies ship overseas.... in this case hasbro(U.S.) has to ship over the atlantic to europe or over the pacific to australia, im sure there are many strict laws and regulations that they have to meet. when big companies shipping to other countries they just dont bubble wrap a couple of boxes and let fedex handle the rest.... im pretty sure hasbro has to buy containers to put on cargo ships, paying for fees to get their bulk of toys shipped across, or maybe they might even choose to ship through airmail.... it will costs a lot money to ship overseas, especially when its thousands of toys and not just one figure. on the other hand, scalpers just usaually ship one figure at a time. now they can simply bubble wrap a fig and box it up and let fedex take care of it.... and also, i dont get why ebay sellers have to charge so much for shipping.... and believe me they are not high because theyre sending through next day airmail.

QFT. THANK YOU for making a simple yet weighty elucidation. this is exactly what i mean by scalping, charging higher than a few bucks + overhead costs, and circumventing eBay fees.

tom brokaw wrote:honestly, i dont see why people have the mentality of "oh, i have to buy toys so i can make money off of them."

heh. scalper mentality. exactly what i had in mind. buying toys BY THE BULK so that you can make money off them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-2008-C ... dZViewItem

*raises his fist at the sky*

Bonger wrote:Someone needs to take out the trash.

Just say my name 3 times...

If I do, will you make everybody dance to the Banana Boat?