The Energon Pub

I'm reading all the comments about all the lost molds of G1 transformers. With all of our advanced technology why can't they take any g1 toys, heck I'd loaned my collection long enough for them to scan it on their computers and presto they now would have a computer image to re-create very closely a new mold!!! Does this sound easier than it actual is? I'd be very interested in anyone's comments as to if this would even be possible. And why did they throw the original molds away anyway???

transform1245 wrote:I'm reading all the comments about all the lost molds of G1 transformers. With all of our advanced technology why can't they take any g1 toys, heck I'd loaned my collection long enough for them to scan it on their computers and presto they now would have a computer image to re-create very closely a new mold!!! Does this sound easier than it actual is? I'd be very interested in anyone's comments as to if this would even be possible. And why did they throw the original molds away anyway???

The molds weren't thrown away many broke or were stolen.

In wheeljack/sunstreaker/mirage's case they were never repainted. Every single figure Has/tak released was able to be repainted (and when they weren't they'd repaint them anyway). I wonder if that has anything to do with it? They may have the molds but they just don't want to bother because they won't get all repaint happy.
I know a rep said some of them were lost, but this is a corporation. Unless you work there you never really know what's happening on the inside (cough enron cough)

I'd rather see a Classics remake of Wheeljack than a reissue- the original toy was badly misproportioned.

His legs are far too stumpy.

Basketball Jones wrote:I'd rather see a Classics remake of Wheeljack than a reissue- the original toy was badly misproportioned.

His legs are far too stumpy.

Actually I would like to see him, as well as some of the other autobots, get the masterpiece treatment but I would definitely agree on getting a classics version of him.

ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack? Anyways...I'm really really sad that Mirage will, probly, never get a reissue. He was sooooo cool looking.

I read all these posts and like what most of you said, unless we ourselves have access to the plants and shops, who knows what happened to the molds.

But what do the molds look like? Anybody here ever see one? Every part and piece must be a different mold, unless all the plastic ones are done at the same time. My parents make concrete statues and we make molds by coating a figure with latex liquid rubber and after enough coats have hardened or dried we make a shell aorund it and there you go, instant mold.

But these have to be alot different, I wonder if we will see any of the molds at this years Botcon. I am hoping for tours, that would be awesome.

Too bad some of our favorates have maybe been lost, but it woud be interesting to see what they look like and how they function.

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack? Anyways...I'm really really sad that Mirage will, probly, never get a reissue. He was sooooo cool looking.

I agree, G1 Mirage was a really good looking model. I always liked him, however alternators Mirage is becoming my new standard for what Mirage should look like. If he were ever going to show up in any movie sequels, he will have to be a Ford GT.

Ummm, I was just wondering. Wat kind of "Damage" does the molds the list have? Cracks?? IF they're cracks, isn't that easy to repair?

AMX wrote:I read all these posts and like what most of you said, unless we ourselves have access to the plants and shops, who knows what happened to the molds.

But what do the molds look like? Anybody here ever see one? Every part and piece must be a different mold, unless all the plastic ones are done at the same time. My parents make concrete statues and we make molds by coating a figure with latex liquid rubber and after enough coats have hardened or dried we make a shell aorund it and there you go, instant mold.

But these have to be alot different, I wonder if we will see any of the molds at this years Botcon. I am hoping for tours, that would be awesome.

Too bad some of our favorates have maybe been lost, but it woud be interesting to see what they look like and how they function.

THe moulds used for the Hasbro/takara figures are die-cast metal blocks, that are created from using the Master resin mould of the figure. This enables the front and back of the figure to be taken and sealed together to create what is called an IP (Injection Plastic) mould. Its this block that is used to add the greyed plastic for the first test run, then once it meets production approval, is then IP'ed with the coloured parts then assembled and tested then smacked, packed and racked for us lot to buy em off the shelves.

As far as a certain british company is concerned in its moulds, well yeah they cost about £10K to produce, but they deffinately make that money back because its always producing new kits, and even if it is a re-release, its providing a new set of accessories to customise them differently.

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

Vile MK III wrote:

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

I've been wondering that for a while.

Leonardo wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

I've been wondering that for a while.

I think I can provide the answer to your question young grasshoppa...

...the answer is in 3D scanning...

[For those who do not know]

3D scanning is where they take a revolving scanner in the shape of a two pronged clamp (or its single sided) and set it to scan the shape and dimensions of the subject matter into a computer.

The subject matter is then transferred from the computer program to the mould maker programme where a 3D representation of the subject then takes place before making a preliminary master figurine before sending the scanned information to the mould makers, who then make the die-cast IP (injection Plastic) brick for manufacturing the figurine.

and et voila you have a (some say perfect others say 99.9%) accurate mould of the subject matter

Kaiser Convoy wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

I've been wondering that for a while.

I think I can provide the answer to your question young grasshoppa...

...the answer is in 3D scanning...

[For those who do not know]

3D scanning is where they take a revolving scanner in the shape of a two pronged clamp (or its single sided) and set it to scan the shape and dimensions of the subject matter into a computer.

The subject matter is then transferred from the computer program to the mould maker programme where a 3D representation of the subject then takes place before making a preliminary master figurine before sending the scanned information to the mould makers, who then make the die-cast IP (injection Plastic) brick for manufacturing the figurine.

and et voila you have a (some say perfect others say 99.9%) accurate mould of the subject matter

Did not Mattel do that in early 2001, when they re-released the original He-Man figures?

Bluebullet wrote:

Calenatarion wrote:This question has been asked before and the answer is probably pretty logic, but...

Is it reall that hard for Has/Tak to make a new mold? Has/Tak make nice TF figures which are better than the old ones. So why don't they take a Mirage or Wheeljack or Grimlock (or whatever figure you can think of) and just copy it for a new mold? Or am I totally missing a point here?

Reverse molding would make for a terrible figure. It's what knockoff artists do to make their dimestore junk. Hasbro/Takara could use computers and, correct me if I'm wrong, lasers to make a new mold by entering the shape and dimensions of each piece into the computer and use that diagram to make a new mold, but it would cost too much money which they couldn't make back in sales.

In short, Hasbro/Takara will never make re-issues of figures with ruined molds, and we're screwed.

Really? Damn, that sucks. What about the "real scan" process they use to make action figures based on real actors? I've heard that they could use that tech to scan figures to make new molds. Would that be practical?

Ironhidensh wrote:

Bluebullet wrote:

Calenatarion wrote:This question has been asked before and the answer is probably pretty logic, but...

Is it reall that hard for Has/Tak to make a new mold? Has/Tak make nice TF figures which are better than the old ones. So why don't they take a Mirage or Wheeljack or Grimlock (or whatever figure you can think of) and just copy it for a new mold? Or am I totally missing a point here?

Reverse molding would make for a terrible figure. It's what knockoff artists do to make their dimestore junk. Hasbro/Takara could use computers and, correct me if I'm wrong, lasers to make a new mold by entering the shape and dimensions of each piece into the computer and use that diagram to make a new mold, but it would cost too much money which they couldn't make back in sales.

In short, Hasbro/Takara will never make re-issues of figures with ruined molds, and we're screwed.

Really? Damn, that sucks. What about the "real scan" process they use to make action figures based on real actors? I've heard that they could use that tech to scan figures to make new molds. Would that be practical?

It could be practical, but the thing is very few of us actually know how much that could costs, so depending on how much it costs to get a mold out of that process it could or couldn't be practical. In the end its all about $$$.

Rodimus Lantern wrote:I was looking to try and make a definitive list.
I'll update this first post as new molds are brought up.
Also please include a reference. Thanks.

G1
-Mirage (Announced BotCon 2005)
-Wheeljack (Announced BotCon 2005)
-Soundwave (Recently Damaged)

G1 Rumored Missing or Damaged
-Dinobots
-Sunstreaker
-Trailbreaker
-Shockwave
-Omega Supreme

Car Robots/RID rumored missing or damaged
-Sideburn
-Prowl
-X Brawn(Or whatever the hell his name was.)

Trailbreaker was reissued around the same time as Ironhide/Ratchet, as a convention/ehobby exclusive.

Trailbreaker obviously isn't damaged- the green repaint of him was reissued.

Hasbro no longer owns the trademark for the name.

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:

Kaiser Convoy wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

I've been wondering that for a while.

I think I can provide the answer to your question young grasshoppa...

...the answer is in 3D scanning...

[For those who do not know]

3D scanning is where they take a revolving scanner in the shape of a two pronged clamp (or its single sided) and set it to scan the shape and dimensions of the subject matter into a computer.

The subject matter is then transferred from the computer program to the mould maker programme where a 3D representation of the subject then takes place before making a preliminary master figurine before sending the scanned information to the mould makers, who then make the die-cast IP (injection Plastic) brick for manufacturing the figurine.

and et voila you have a (some say perfect others say 99.9%) accurate mould of the subject matter

Did not Mattel do that in early 2001, when they re-released the original He-Man figures?

That is exactly whay Mattel did, they actually bought up old figures and such from ebay.

As for Convoy, something tells me they tok extra care in preserving that mold.

Ok I have this DVD that shows how they make molds and let me tell you a multi-million dollar company has the technology to make molds at a cheap price. The DVD explains all about the scanning process and all that. It is a lilttle dry and such and you can get bored very easliy watching it. but I don't think it cost's no $20,000 dollars to make a mold seeing the have the computeres and software already. I mean the scanning process that was previously mentioned is basically how a lot of things are made now. The computers do all the work now a days...All we need is someone to work for hasbro concept ideas!!!
I think that it is more profit on the mold than anything. Too bad there aren't some millionares on this board that could front money for this project. Oh ya and they could use it as a tax write off somehow....
Like the qustion was asked before does anyone have pics of a toy mold? Doesn' exactly have to be a transformer but something along the lines like a Macross Jetfire, POwer Ranger zord etc....

I talked to someone who knows a lot about injection molding and maintenance of such.He told me with he high temperatures and high pressure of the process its possible to crack molds.Also every time the mold is emptied they need to go in and clean it.Using a high speed die grinder with a wire brushed tip the molds are cleaned.This process does ware the molds down and cause quality problems with the mold over time.Also storage of the mold is very important.Depending what the mold is made of oxidation/rust can set in on certain metal molds and ruin them by being pitted.I hope this info helps clear a few things up.

We have to keep this topic alive it is a very good source of information!!

Flint wrote:

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:

Kaiser Convoy wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:

Redimus' Ego +1 wrote:

Vile MK III wrote:ummm...Isn't Energon Downshift good e-nuf for a classic Wheeljack?

Hell


NO


That guy has Energon Autobots desease BAD.

...okie dokie...Speaking of molds, How can Takara re-use the Diaclone Convoy mold over and over w/ out it getting damaged? Come one, they used it's like a million times. (I know, a million is a big stretch but still)

I've been wondering that for a while.

I think I can provide the answer to your question young grasshoppa...

...the answer is in 3D scanning...

[For those who do not know]

3D scanning is where they take a revolving scanner in the shape of a two pronged clamp (or its single sided) and set it to scan the shape and dimensions of the subject matter into a computer.

The subject matter is then transferred from the computer program to the mould maker programme where a 3D representation of the subject then takes place before making a preliminary master figurine before sending the scanned information to the mould makers, who then make the die-cast IP (injection Plastic) brick for manufacturing the figurine.

and et voila you have a (some say perfect others say 99.9%) accurate mould of the subject matter

Did not Mattel do that in early 2001, when they re-released the original He-Man figures?

That is exactly whay Mattel did, they actually bought up old figures and such from ebay.

As for Convoy, something tells me they tok extra care in preserving that mold.

I believe for Convoy they either made a new mold or are using the G2 one (I can't remember), if they made a new mold I think they figured they would be using it a lot so that would make it profitable. On the other hand, they feel that no other character is as popular as Optimus so no other character is deserving of an entirely new mold (there are some exceptions I'm guessing though), which I think is lame on their part.

There's also reverse molding as well. Where you take a fig and make a mold around it, then convert it to a standard mold. That's how they brought G1 Soundwave back from the dead. However, "Lower" characters like Mirage, Wheeljack and others just don't seem to be worth the effort. The only reason Hound, Skids, Prowl, etc. got remolds is because the molds were still capable of being used. As for Shockwave and Omega Supreme (as I believe someone mentioned), Takara was never in ownership of those molds. The toys were manufactured by smaller asian toy companies then sent to Takara/Hasbro for packaging. Just read about the Jetfire fiasco in the 80's. Jetfire's the only fig Takara will NEVER re-release even if they wanted to, because Bandai owns that mold and they're a way bigger company than Hastak. That's what you get for stealing from Macross!