The Energon Pub

I've been feeling real down lately. I can't seem to explain it. The stress of entering my senior year at high school, with the addition of thoughts like "what am I doing with my life?" and "how the hell am I going to get 08 Bumblebee" or my personal unfavorite "am I going to ask out that girl?". I know this isn't exactly the best place to complain about my problems, so i've decided to share something that truly inspired me when I was feeling down.

"This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys/girls are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many some girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming."

Cheers,

Phil

No offense, bud, but you seriously misunderstand women there! Yeah, that's unfair, but....

Usually if a woman wants you to go shopping or chit chat on the phone like that, there is NO sexual chemistry that she is feeling! She sees you ONLY as a friend, nothing more. Sad to say, I've had male friends that I've loved as only friends, and when I started to see that they wanted more, I had to cut all ties. It's unfair to everyone. But the one thing I've noticed is that usually if a guy will hang out with a girl as "friends", they are one of two things: a gay male friend, or a friend that wants to be more.

And as for dating jerks...well, nearly every man can be a jerk, and since the "nice" guy is her go-to man to complain, it's gonna seem that way, that every man she dates is a jerk. What is really is? You're a springboard for her frustrations. You will hear ONLY the negative things. She's not gonna call her "nice friend" to tell him all the great things in her relationship.

Thanks man. I needed that toast.


But I have to tell you, Moonbase2 is so right.

Girls aren't manipulative bitches, and when you've graduated from college and all your old buddies are complaining about how screwed up all women are, they're wrong. They just flunked. That's all.


You have to think about these things biologically. Women are instinctively guided to pick out the best possible mate. These are not qualities that our society thinks is the best possible mate. That's where most logic fails. No, these are qualities that nature thinks is the best possible mate. In other words, direct, confident, and above all, excels in his area of expertise or social gathering. In other words, the alpha.

If you be nice, she doesn't see you as that. She sees you as a no-hassle, worry-free friend. Can you be the alpha? Yes you can, but you may need to work on some personality traits.

Don't get hung up on one girl. But of course, don't pretend you're someone else either. It's all in the approach. You're a nice guy, and that's great, but she won't be attracted to that because there's no sexual tension involved. She wants to figure you out. The guy who's always there is just that: always there. And a rejection is just that, a rejection. And there are many rejections, including some very subtle but nice seeming ones. If she rejects you, she's made up her mind, and there's no mystery at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

So give her something to ponder. Tease her. Make fun. Not a jerk, not an asshole, just some playful humor. Figure out how to make her laugh, do it, and then hold back when she's expecting you to. You don't like how women play with your mind? Play with theirs.

And like anything else, it takes pratice if you're not used to it. There's a fine line between being funny and having a good time, and being a dick who doesn't respect her. It actually is possible.


And above all, don't lose faith in females. When your buddies crash and burn years from now and declare all women evil, do you really believe that? Or is it more probable that your buddies just don't know what to do?


You're not alone man. The nice guy is not appreciated. But that's because the nice guy tries too hard. Would you do all those things for your buddies? Hell no. Maybe some, every now and then, but not all.

Moonbase2 wrote:But the one thing I've noticed is that usually if a guy will hang out with a girl as "friends", they are one of two things: a gay male friend, or a friend that wants to be more.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that observation. I have loads of female friends and only one did I want a relationship with. She only wanted to be friends, but that's beside the point.

And Blurrz, feel free to vent if you need to. Worst that happens is the thread gets locked, but that would only be an extreme case. Plenty of people have started threads just to vent. Chin up lad, thing's get better.

Men that are nice aren't threatening to women, and of course you're gonna be treated like her security blanket. You're like her teddy bear when you are her "nice" friend. The sad truth is, she just doesn't want to sleep with you.

Women do want an aggressive male, but no, he can't be an absolute jerk. Like men, we want our mates to be confident, but NOT COCKY!!! You guys like a women to be confident, to own herself, right? Well, we want that too. Some women say that we want you guys to be sensitive and whatnot, but I think for a lot of us that is SOOOO not the case. I don't want to see you cry unless someone has died. Men are supposed to be strong. We can't have you losing your sh*t when something doesn't go your way. To this day I have never seen my husband cry, and unless one of our family members dies, I never want to.

Now if only women could get a handle on their emotions. I've toughened up a lot in the past year or two. I had to live without my husband for a year while he was in Iraq, and birth a child without him, all while rising another toddler. I learned to rely on MYSELF. I don't need anyone else's validation for my own happiness. I hate seeing women sob over the dumbest sh*t. Get ahold of yourselves, girls!

Thanks for the morale boosts Insurgent and Dark Zarak.

@Moonbase2: I appreciate your input alot, but are you trying to represent the whole entire population of women? I know there's going to be a girl for me out there somewhere, but the way you're talking it feels as if I have to act my way into getting a girl, instead of plainly being myself.

Blurrz wrote:Thanks for the morale boosts Insurgent and Dark Zarak.

@Moonbase2: I appreciate your input alot, but are you trying to represent the whole entire population of women? I know there's going to be a girl for me out there somewhere, but the way you're talking it feels as if I have to act my way into getting a girl, instead of plainly being myself.

No, women want you to be yourself, as long as yourself isn't a jerk that doesn't care about her. I by no means represent the entire female population, but I do understand how women think. Basically, a woman wants a guy that actually pays attention to what she is saying (even if you really don't care) and does what he says he'll do. Of course there is a woman out there for you. But if you don't give her any mystery or intrigue (and if she just isn't sexually interested) you won't get one that wants to date you. I'm not saying that is your problem but by your "nice guy" post, I'm assuming it is. Women love to ponder about their man, unravel little details and mysteries, not have you be her teddy bear that shares ice cream when she cries.

Blurrz wrote:the way you're talking it feels as if I have to act my way into getting a girl, instead of plainly being myself.

In part, that's true.

If yourself is eager to make people happy no matter what, worried or anxious about being accepted, or in the other case, only out for himself and eager to see how far he can push people to get a cheap laugh.

If any of those things are you, prepare to start acting.


The first two are me, so I have trouble with women as well. And I've tried the acting route, pretending to cocky, pretending to be confident. But how well can you act out nuances and subtleties of a personality you don't currently have? You can't and they'll see right through it. Anyone will.

So you have to straighten yourself out on the inside to be attractive to women. But even that's not enough, because you need to be able to actually make her attracted as well. If you don't have the looks, don't worry about it. You'd be surprised how far a good personality goes, just so long as you don't become the guy who's always there. I know that's what makes sense, but that's not exciting.

Women will always remain a mystery to me. I've tried everything, changed considerably (some of my friends thought I was broken when I became a confident flirt, it was a complete reversal to my usual self.) and back, nothing works. So instead of worrying about it, I just loose a piece of my sanity a day. The madness keeps me entertained.

Moonbase2 wrote:Usually if a woman wants you to go shopping or chit chat on the phone like that, there is NO sexual chemistry that she is feeling! She sees you ONLY as a friend, nothing more.

What if you have... the kavorka????

"nice guys finish last" is a bad cliché, and once you get out of high school and start seeing the real world out there, you'll know that's not true.

From my experience, it seems women go through a phase in high school and in early college when they just want to be with the typical "bad boy", the ones they see on TV that get them all hot and bothered. But like men (who cannot think of anything other than breasts for their entire 16th year of life on this planet), women do grow up and mature. There comes a time when they begin to really appreciate the "stand-up" guys. The ones who don't go shooting their mouths off, the ones who chose their words carefully, who are not brash or hot-headed. They begin to respect the men who respect women in return and appreciate the guys who listen and who are comfortable with their feelings, and don't try to hide behind a macho image.

Like all people, men and women grow up sooner or later, and when women start looking for a stable, long-lasting, meaningful, loving relationship with a partner who will care for them, love them unconditionally, and see them through whatever obstacles life throws at them, they'll go looking for those "nice guys", not the weiners who drive street-racing Civics and who don't even have their grade 11.

Trust me on this one, and the same goes for both genders. The bad boys come and go in a woman's life, but I'll tell you one thing, they never forget the men who are there for them when they need it, and when the time comes for them to start looking for a solid, loving relationship, they'll remember you.

Skowl, you are absolutely correct. Unfortunately, though, some women (and men) never grow up. But you don't want an immature woman. You want one that owns herself, that wants you to be yourself and be comfortable with who you are. Pretending to be cocky is one of the biggest turn-offs out there, right behind actually being cocky. Women hate it! Unless you have millions of dollars to back it up, don't bother.

Sometimes I think that a mail-order bride is the only way to go.

Spike wrote:Sometimes I think that a mail-order bride is the only way to go.

You know they're only in it for the citizenship. They get married, become a citizen, get divorced, take half your crap, then disappear.

Senor Hugo wrote:

Spike wrote:Sometimes I think that a mail-order bride is the only way to go.

You know they're only in it for the citizenship. They get married, become a citizen, get divorced, take half your crap, then disappear.

Well, the men are only in it for the sex, so everybody wins.

Moonbase2 wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:

Spike wrote:Sometimes I think that a mail-order bride is the only way to go.

You know they're only in it for the citizenship. They get married, become a citizen, get divorced, take half your crap, then disappear.

Well, the men are only in it for the sex, so everybody wins.

Ah, cruel, cruel world.

I think I have come to a conclusion and I'm just gonna wing it, and be myself. It's my senior year, and I know girls will definitely not be as "adventurous" in University or College. We'll see what can be done, I've learned I shouldn't be a pig, but I also can't be shy either. I've also learned that I need to show strength as well. Heck, I have the physique, so I should fine.

I'm just glad I went through the whole relationship process in Junior High, so I do know what to do to get a gal, but the problem is keeping her. Ah. I should just lock her up and throw away the key.

Thanks alot Moonbase2. When you post questions like these in other forums, my response-base is usually composed of men or women who say "there's a girl there for everyone", or "some girl will be there for you" or my personal favorite "you're too young to date!". But Moonbase, you've stuck around the whole time! though!

I think you're on the right track Blurrz. As long as you realize that it's not always logical to guys what a girl will be attracted to, you'll be able to avoid the whole "nice guys finish last because all they want are jerks" trap.

Blurrz wrote:and I know girls will definitely not be as "adventurous" in University or College.

Sorry, but just you wait.

I know you've heard it before, but things will change SOOOO much once you're out of high school. You'll change a lot, and so will women around you. I am almost a different person from what I was my senior year. Well, maybe being married since age 19 has something to do with that.

And yes, nice guys finish last. When these "bad boys' have eventually lost any decent woman because the women matured and they didn't, that is a lot more women for you, because they'll be wanting what nice, stable guys have to offer.

Go to a college that is 70% female.


You will thank me later.

The Mad Asshatter wrote:Go to a college that is 70% female.


You will thank me later.

Well fortunately for me, the year 1990 produced alot more girls than boys in Edmonton. I think the ratio is around 4:1. One class I had last year contained me, a couple of my buddies, and the rest were girls. And no, that class wasn't Health or Modern Dancing( ), it was Social.

Blurrz wrote:

The Mad Asshatter wrote:Go to a college that is 70% female.


You will thank me later.

Well fortunately for me, the year 1990 produced alot more girls than boys in Edmonton. I think the ratio is around 4:1. One class I had last year contained me, a couple of my buddies, and the rest were girls. And no, that class wasn't Health or Modern Dancing( ), it was Social.

Where I live it's in a girl's favor. Nothing but young army men! Too bad I married the first one I ever talked to!

My school's got more sausage than all of Germany.

The Mad Asshatter wrote:Go to a college that is 70% female.


You will thank me later.

Or get into a hobby, TV show, etc, that has more women interested in it than men. Buffy the Vampire Slayer did it for me, though the few relationships I had as a result of that common interest didn't last too long. One lived in Texas, and two others were just too young. (Legal, mind you, just too young. LOL.) Met two of them at Buffy cons, the other through a mutual friend.

Skowl wrote:Like all people, men and women grow up sooner or later, and when women start looking for a stable, long-lasting, meaningful, loving relationship with a partner who will care for them, love them unconditionally, and see them through whatever obstacles life throws at them, they'll go looking for those "nice guys", not the weiners who drive street-racing Civics and who don't even have their grade 11.

Sure, when they grow up. They go out and have all this fun with jerks and assholes, and then they decide 'this isn't working.' Then, after they've tried the rest, they go to the 'last resort,' a --gasp-- nice guy. Gee, thanks. That's just what I'd like. Some jerk's leftovers. It's rather irritating. I went through this in college. Eventually, I just said 'f**k it.' I absolutely quit trying and didn't care anymore. Within a month, I had girls coming on to me, wanting to go out, and I'm rather ashamed to admit, I didn't treat them very well. But I really didn't care at that point. One of them stuck around, and we're married now. But I still think it's sad that I had to be a jerk to get anywhere with women when I was in college.

I'm more 'anger fueled' than 'nice' but I'll accept the toast.

Most women just don't want a guy that will strangle the nearest person at the drop of a hat. I've come to accept that. That's why men invented 'gentlemen's clubs'. All of the breasts, none of the nagging, bitching or 'stop-punching-my-cat' BS.