The Energon Pub

what was the planet that unicron first ate in the begining of the movie? i cant remember if the movie even said...it did look alot like cybertron

The planet was Lithone

Only one survivor was left... and he got eaten by the Sharkticons.

I'm watching the original animated movie with Unicron and I just realized that when Prime dies he gives the matrix to UltraMagnus... why didn't Jazz get it? Isn't he supposed to be the 2nd in command? Shouldn't he have gotten it? Or did Optimus believe him dead so he passed him over? If that's the case why once they save him at the end doesn't he just step up and take it and say "Hey Prime groomed me for years that's meant for me."

It's been years since I've seen any of the old cartoons but I don't recall him ever saying he didn't want to lead.

Just because Jazz may have been his second in command the of the Ark crew, didn't mean that he was next in line through the entire Autobot army. Also, there's been no evidence that the Matrix was passed down through ranks. As Orion Pax, he was basically a nobody laborer when he recieved the Matrix.

Ultra Magnus was there, Jazz wasn't.

Jazz was on Moonbase 1 when that happened, wheras Prime was on Earth.

I wondered about that when I was a kid and watching it last night I had to ask. Jazz was always my favorite and I wondered why he got skipped.

Of course the real reason is: Hasbro were going to be selling Ultra Magnus toys, they weren't going to be selling Jazz toys.

Keeping it in continuity, I always find it interesting that the Autobots chain of command seems to be far more fluid than fanfic writers generally accept. Most fanfic has Prowl as the second in command, Jazz as 3IC, etc. But in the cartoon they seem to use a far more ad hoc basis for command. For example, in A Prime Problem, Ironhide seems to be in command when there's some doubt as to which Prime is real. In MTMTE, Jazz seems to be 2IC. I can't actually think of an episode where Prowl acts as 2IC.

Sledge is probably right. The chain of command is pretty fluid depending on the episode and what they wanted to happen.

I just always thought Jazz was supposed to be the #2 but all of them had some meassure of leadership ability and took command as they seen fit when Prime wasn't there. Heck just because Rodimus opened the Matrix he was suddenly the leader.

I did agree with that one though... I mean come on Ultra Magnus... it had finger holes right here in it, Megatron even missed them, no one but Rodimus noticed they were there.

Or maybe I'm looking too much into it. *shrug*

My opinion has always been that the Autobots aren't arrayed like a traditional military. Prime is definitely in command, but if he's not their, I think the Autobot best suited to the situation takes command. For example, in The Core, a group of Autobots including Prowl are attacked by Devastator. If anyone takes command, it's Sunstreaker.

As for the Matrix, my thoughts on that run to an essay I really must write some time.

In most comic book continuities, it seems that its Prowl who is second in command, with the contingent of Grimlock/Ultra Magnus/Jazz/Fortress Maximus following right behind. But like another poster said, it seems to be fluid.

For example, at the end of the original G1 Marvel run, Prime gave the leadership mantle to Grimlock, ahead of Prowl who was standing right there when Prime died (again).

And in the Dreamwave run, it pretty much seems to be that Prowl is second in command, except during the period in War Within when Prime and Megatron disappeared. At that point Ultra Magnus came out of exile or hiding or whatever, and was supreme commander of the rejoined Autobot army.

In the toon, I always pegged Jazz as second in command in the opening trilogy, but Ironhide took over responsibilities for the rest of series 1 and 2. Toon Prowl never came across as second in command.


And something I've been wondering about that marvel issue when Prime puts Grimlock in command.

Now, understand I do not have the issue, or any before it, but I have seen scans of the scene where Prime dies.

He calls Prowl over and says

"Make Grimlock understand."

Then he conks out.

Now, everyone is saying this means he placed Grimlock in charge. But what if he actually wanted to say

"Make Grimlock understand why I put you in charge. Serve me well Prowl."

Did Grimlock not want to be leader? Because that sounds like Prime was telling Prowl to explain something to Grimlock that the Dinobot would not be happy about ie Prowl is in charge. Especially if Prowl was the second in command in the comics.

Just a thought.

Sledge wrote:My opinion has always been that the Autobots aren't arrayed like a traditional military. Prime is definitely in command, but if he's not their, I think the Autobot best suited to the situation takes command. For example, in The Core, a group of Autobots including Prowl are attacked by Devastator. If anyone takes command, it's Sunstreaker.

As for the Matrix, my thoughts on that run to an essay I really must write some time.

I agree with Sledge on this one. I guess it would make more sense for the perfect bot to take charge when cap'n ain't there.

Lithone FTW!!!

Insurgent wrote:And something I've been wondering about that marvel issue when Prime puts Grimlock in command.

Now, understand I do not have the issue, or any before it, but I have seen scans of the scene where Prime dies.

He calls Prowl over and says

"Make Grimlock understand."

Then he conks out.

Now, everyone is saying this means he placed Grimlock in charge. But what if he actually wanted to say

"Make Grimlock understand why I put you in charge. Serve me well Prowl."

Did Grimlock not want to be leader? Because that sounds like Prime was telling Prowl to explain something to Grimlock that the Dinobot would not be happy about ie Prowl is in charge. Especially if Prowl was the second in command in the comics.

Just a thought.

If you ever get the chance, look at that scene again. It took me more than one read to actually get it, but what actually happens is that Prime calls Prowl over then tells him "get Grimlock tell hm..."
The scene moves further away for a panel, implicating that Prime is telling Prowl something that only he can hear.
The scene then comes back with Prowl really low to Prime's face, as Prime says "Make...MMMMake him...underst...."
and then he dies.
A couple pages later, Prowl is arguing with Grimlock telling him that Prime had named him the new Autobot leader.

If I'd been Prowl, I'd have assumed Prime had been out of his mind with pain and taken command myself. Or at least appointed a leader who can construct a sentence without using his own name in it.

Loki120 wrote:

Insurgent wrote:And something I've been wondering about that marvel issue when Prime puts Grimlock in command.

Now, understand I do not have the issue, or any before it, but I have seen scans of the scene where Prime dies.

He calls Prowl over and says

"Make Grimlock understand."

Then he conks out.

Now, everyone is saying this means he placed Grimlock in charge. But what if he actually wanted to say

"Make Grimlock understand why I put you in charge. Serve me well Prowl."

Did Grimlock not want to be leader? Because that sounds like Prime was telling Prowl to explain something to Grimlock that the Dinobot would not be happy about ie Prowl is in charge. Especially if Prowl was the second in command in the comics.

Just a thought.

If you ever get the chance, look at that scene again. It took me more than one read to actually get it, but what actually happens is that Prime calls Prowl over then tells him "get Grimlock tell hm..."
The scene moves further away for a panel, implicating that Prime is telling Prowl something that only he can hear.
The scene then comes back with Prowl really low to Prime's face, as Prime says "Make...MMMMake him...underst...."
and then he dies.
A couple pages later, Prowl is arguing with Grimlock telling him that Prime had named him the new Autobot leader.

Oh. So Prime was indeed naming Grimlock the next leader. So do we find out what he wanted Prowl to 'make Grimlock understand'? From what I've heard of comic Grimlock, he wanted to be leader. So why would he need to be made to understand that? Did he have a change of heart and decide to stop trying to be leader or was it something else?

The full line was "Make Grimlock understand he's only leader for a couple of days, until I get resurected again."

The "make him understand" comment was in reference to wanting Grimlock to try and bridge the peace gap between Autobots and Decepticons, and for Grimlock to lead the Autobots to protect all life forms across the galaxy.

Mwah ha! Thank you. Like I said, I don't have any of the issues, just going off a scan of the death scene I saw.