The Energon Pub

Jawnee wrote:

Bender Prime wrote:Yeah I'm not really a fan, glad she was dropped, prefer she is is left out of the sequel and someone like Jetfire/skyfire is stuck in instead.

You gotta have somethin for the girlies though

Why? That's like saying you've got to have something for the dudes in Desperate Housewives!

Auto Bot wrote:I think Autobots ought to have a BASE in Movie #2. Arcee can stay behind to guard the base. Hehe

In the kitchen cooking the boys pie and doing their laundry too, I suppose?

I'd rather her just not be in it at all. Like Neko said, she's not an interesting character.

Renne wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:I think Autobots ought to have a BASE in Movie #2. Arcee can stay behind to guard the base. Hehe

In the kitchen cooking the boys pie and doing their laundry too, I suppose?

I'd rather her just not be in it at all. Like Neko said, she's not an interesting character.

Hahaha Very well said.

Good thing i'm alone here, when i burst out in sudden laughter.

PaperBird wrote:

Jawnee wrote:

Bender Prime wrote:Yeah I'm not really a fan, glad she was dropped, prefer she is is left out of the sequel and someone like Jetfire/skyfire is stuck in instead.

You gotta have somethin for the girlies though

eh..not necessarily. I'm a "girlie" and I certainly have no burning desire for Arcee to be in the next film. I'm kinda worried that she would make the movie have to make explanations for things and waste precious screen time another bot could have, as others have said. However, I do like her design

Please read my last post you skipped over. I'm not talking about girls that are already fans.

decepticonjon wrote:gender and robots just don't seem to go together well in general. imo

I have to wonder if you're joking with Battle Angel Alita in your sig as you say that.

primesdestiny wrote:p.s. they dont need arcee to add more girls to the fan base anyway, all the girls seem to ADORE bumblebee after seeing the movie, so i think he alone is doing a fine job. alot of my girls love him to death, myself included.

With all due respect (and I think its awesome that you're female and you like the transformers as is) what you just said is an opinion, not a fact. My wife sat next to me the entire movie and was entertained but she was annoyed by Mikaela being the stereotypical dumb girl who dates jocks because she "has a weakness for tight abs and big arms". She would have enjoyed seeing a female figure (be it human or bot) kicking some tail on the screen with the boys but there wasnt any of that. Sure we had the one blond girl that detected the hack, and Mikaela did drive Bumblebee into battle against Brawl (Devastator) but these were secondary action roles and for girls like my wife who are fiercely independent women seeing Arcee (or another female form robot) laying the smack down would make the franchise that much more appealing.

Neko wrote:Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

If by the twins you mean Sunstreaker and Sideswipe I would LOVE to see them in #2

"Hi Im Arcee! Im here to be loving and nuturing and to ask if we can solve this without violence!"

T Honk wrote:"Hi Im Arcee! Im here to be loving and nuturing and to ask if we can solve this without violence!"

**DEAD**


Stop being bad T Honk.


now at Jawnee - no disrespect taken. and with all due respect, what u stated that ur wife felt is opinion, not fact as well. we can go round and round about this for days on why she should and why she should not be, but at the end of the day she wasnt in the movie (which i feel is an introduction to the transformers and adding her would have been overkill) and some of us dont wish to see her in the upcoming sequel. either way, at the end of the day, its not left up to US, its up to the powers that be. so we will see if she shows up in the sequel.....

It wouldn't be too hard to explain why the transformers have a "female", they could just class it as a sub-division and use them as spies or scouts or something where huge bulking mass would be inappropriate, I'm sure that's not a new idea. Furthermore, they could just explain that "female" is the closest transformer to english translation for the word they use to describe "her", or whatever. I dunno. Its waaaay to early in the morning to have to consider what I'm talking about.

Regardless, I think there are better characters then Arcee, and I think pinking up a femme is rather ghey. I mean, come on, how sexist can you get? Not all chicks like pink. I mean, what, it's like "Hey, look, that Transformer is pink, she must be a woman". We don't question Galvatron's sexuality based on him being purple do we? Seesh. [end feminist rant].

Heheh.

I have no problem with female character in the movie, I just want to see them as warriors, and not your typical lust stricken objects of love and that sort of crap. I've said it before, I'll say it again- I like Transformers the way it is. I DON'T want to see any sappy love stories in the plot.

Jawnee wrote:

Neko wrote:Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

If by the twins you mean Sunstreaker and Sideswipe I would LOVE to see them in #2

Ye-ah! If they brought in the twins, they should SOOOO bring in the Battlechargers (Runabout and Runamuck) Autobot twins versus Decepticon twins. Oh the destructive fun!

Neko wrote:No Arcee please.

As a fangirl I can say honestly I'd rather they kept away from the femmes alltogether. It's not a sexist issue, it's an action issue.

I'd rather they bring in someone else. Arcee just isn't an intersting character. Even in the cartoon she was just there for robotic eye candy of sorts.

Just no. No thank you.


Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

Neko= Awesome. My point exactly. Transformers is meant to be about action. Now why can't some of the OTHER female Transformers fans on here get that through their heads?

Neko wrote:
Ye-ah! If they brought in the twins, they should SOOOO bring in the Battlechargers (Runabout and Runamuck) Autobot twins versus Decepticon twins. Oh the destructive fun!

And on that note, I'd love to see some mindless vandalism!!

Also, I beleive a sequel requires a higher fatality rate from amongst the Autobot ranks!

Damolisher wrote:

Neko wrote:No Arcee please.

As a fangirl I can say honestly I'd rather they kept away from the femmes alltogether. It's not a sexist issue, it's an action issue.

I'd rather they bring in someone else. Arcee just isn't an intersting character. Even in the cartoon she was just there for robotic eye candy of sorts.

Just no. No thank you.


Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

Neko= Awesome. My point exactly. Transformers is meant to be about action. Now why can't some of the OTHER female Transformers fans on here get that through their heads?

Question.
Couldn't the writers of said movie . MAKE her interesting?
The whole she isnt interesting thing is kinda stupid. it's the job of writers to make characters interesting.

They did a piss poor job in this film, no matter how much I like it.

Jazz had a few lines 6 max, then dies, yet we are supposed to care.

Optimus GREAT lines, after jazz dies... he kinda moves on in 3 seconds.

Starscream Megatron..... No comment.

Decepticons in general outside of frenzy.... Cannon fodder.

Would it really kill writers of these movies to make the characters ... you know be characters.?

With Arcee, she doesn't need to be pink, or the stereotypical chick. I do believe alot of fans on here, think a female just isnt cool enough to be a transformer.
Regardless on how she's written.

Would Black arachnia.. renamed as a Mazda spider, be a good character? Or just no Arcee cuz she has cooties?

/Shakin my head

Neko wrote:No Arcee please.

As a fangirl I can say honestly I'd rather they kept away from the femmes alltogether. It's not a sexist issue, it's an action issue.

I'd rather they bring in someone else. Arcee just isn't an intersting character. Even in the cartoon she was just there for robotic eye candy of sorts.

Just no. No thank you.


Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

I agree, said several times..., TF's doesn't work in the earth way of two genders, they are robots!

Tazirai wrote:

Damolisher wrote:

Neko wrote:No Arcee please.

As a fangirl I can say honestly I'd rather they kept away from the femmes alltogether. It's not a sexist issue, it's an action issue.

I'd rather they bring in someone else. Arcee just isn't an intersting character. Even in the cartoon she was just there for robotic eye candy of sorts.

Just no. No thank you.


Bring Wheeljack, Prowl, or the twins in instead.

Neko= Awesome. My point exactly. Transformers is meant to be about action. Now why can't some of the OTHER female Transformers fans on here get that through their heads?

Question.
Couldn't the writers of said movie . MAKE her interesting?
The whole she isnt interesting thing is kinda stupid. it's the job of writers to make characters interesting.

They did a piss poor job in this film, no matter how much I like it.

Jazz had a few lines 6 max, then dies, yet we are supposed to care.

Optimus GREAT lines, after jazz dies... he kinda moves on in 3 seconds.

Starscream Megatron..... No comment.

Decepticons in general outside of frenzy.... Cannon fodder.

Would it really kill writers of these movies to make the characters ... you know be characters.?

With Arcee, she doesn't need to be pink, or the stereotypical chick. I do believe alot of fans on here, think a female just isnt cool enough to be a transformer.
Regardless on how she's written.

Would Black arachnia.. renamed as a Mazda spider, be a good character? Or just no Arcee cuz she has cooties?

/Shakin my head

You're trusting Hollywood to do all that when they kinda neglected it with the others?


I take it you never saw the concept art for Arcee (she was intended to be in the film but was replaced by Ironhide. Wisest move they made IMHO). Not only is she a motorcycle and only 9 feet tall, but she's PINK. Igh....just.....ew.


No thank you.


I'll stick with the twins and battlechargers if it pleases the court.

Tazirai wrote:
With Arcee, she doesn't need to be pink, or the stereotypical chick. I do believe alot of fans on here, think a female just isnt cool enough to be a transformer.

Why are you so hell bent on having one? If shes not stereotypical then what? explain. Im thinking Joe- from Facts of Life- when you say this. Maybe you never seen it. Fixed cars, Got in fights, etc. If so; Aside from boobs and a higher pitch to the voice; What would even be differant from a so called "male" TF?
Do you just want the name RC used? Do they have to give the general impression that they are female? If not why bother?

Would Black arachnia.. renamed as a Mazda spider, be a good character? Or just no Arcee cuz she has cooties?

/Shakin my head

No nO NO no NONONO!!!! No female shaped bodies! No stereotypical female pesonalities! No Eyegrabbing visual cues that this character must be female. Why? Everyone will ask it. Sorry if you think humans are un-evolved for putting 2 and 2 together and going " whats with the chick bot?"
I wish the fembots had never been put in those few stupid episodes designed to hawk a product to just a few more.......
She did nothing. She shot nothing. She whined. If you say revamp her personality I say why bother???
Give me Wheeljack; give me the Lambo twins; hell.... give me Hoist!!! Anyone but her. To many small TFs in this movie as it is.

PS Per your earlier question; would I still like it if TF where randomly evolved to resemble females in shape. No, and it hard to do female shapes from tanks and semis, so I dont see how anyone would have said " hey- lets do that!"

I see things differently. You can put Arcee in a film, and not have to explain why she looks feminine. The audience will only raise a fuss if you TRY to explain it and don't do it convincingly enough. If you don't even bother, people won't really care, they'll just take it as a "given" in the Transformers universe.

It's called "suspending your disbelief", it's a technique writers have been using for centuries when they're dealing with things that can't be explained in our own universe. It requires the reader/viewer to treat the universe they see on screen as a seperate universe different from their own with a different set of rules. The "rules" of this universe are usually implied and not stated, and they become part of the subconscious when viewing a film. Things only become problematic when a filmmaker decides to disregard the "rules" of the universe created in the film (see: Spider-man 3, Pirates 3, X-Men 3... but that's another topic...)

Perfect example: The Force in Star Wars. People will "suspend their disbelief" and believe that this "force" can do all the things it does in the movie. They don't need it explained to them, they just understand that this is one of the laws of this universe. In Episode I, George Lucas decided - rather unwisely - to explain where the Force came from (it's bacteria or something! Whoopee...) THEN it stops working, because the audience is suddenly given an explanation for a rule of ANOTHER universe based on the laws of OUR universe, and they can no longer "suspend their disbelief". And that's not only because Star Wars is really "out there" and is literally a seperate universe... the same can be said about the spider-senses in Spiderman, the mutant powers in X-Men, everything in Pirates of the Caribbean (the audience will believe a monster like Davy Jones could exist in that universe, and that people can be brought back from the dead etc... but if Jack Sparrow had a ship that could fly into outer space, then the audience would stop believing since it would break the rules of an already established universe.)

Same thing goes for Arcee. She can work in this Transformers Universe. She has for years along with Blackarachnia, Elita-One and others. You don't have to explain why, you can just do it and very few people will ask questions because they much rather just believe in something then struggle to comprehend WHY. The other robots are already implied "males" (they even refer to each other using "he" not "it", and people don't raise a fuss about that, do they?) so I don't think the audience will see it as that much of a stretch to include a "female" robot in a universe that has only "male" robots (in fact, I know alot of people that would consider that to be sexist even, oh la la!). And also, I really don't buy the argument that a female TF wouldn't work in an action movie... so women can't be good action heroes now? I think Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor and a long list of other tough gals would like to have a word with you...

It's my experience that people don't go to summer action movies to think and ask questions, if that were the case Independance Day wouldn't have been such a huge box office hit.

T Honk wrote:

Tazirai wrote:
With Arcee, she doesn't need to be pink, or the stereotypical chick. I do believe alot of fans on here, think a female just isnt cool enough to be a transformer.

Why are you so hell bent on having one? If shes not stereotypical then what? explain. Im thinking Joe- from Facts of Life- when you say this. Maybe you never seen it. Fixed cars, Got in fights, etc. If so; Aside from boobs and a higher pitch to the voice; What would even be differant from a so called "male" TF?
Do you just want the name RC used? Do they have to give the general impression that they are female? If not why bother?

Would Black arachnia.. renamed as a Mazda spider, be a good character? Or just no Arcee cuz she has cooties?

/Shakin my head

No nO NO no NONONO!!!! No female shaped bodies! No stereotypical female pesonalities! No Eyegrabbing visual cues that this character must be female. Why? Everyone will ask it. Sorry if you think humans are un-evolved for putting 2 and 2 together and going " whats with the chick bot?"
I wish the fembots had never been put in those few stupid episodes designed to hawk a product to just a few more.......
She did nothing. She shot nothing. She whined. If you say revamp her personality I say why bother???
Give me Wheeljack; give me the Lambo twins; hell.... give me Hoist!!! Anyone but her. To many small TFs in this movie as it is.

PS Per your earlier question; would I still like it if TF where randomly evolved to resemble females in shape. No, and it hard to do female shapes from tanks and semis, so I dont see how anyone would have said " hey- lets do that!"

You seem pretty hellbent against it. Something against females in general? You DONT have to explain it, if she shows up cool. There have been female robots since time immemorial.

I remember an old Sinbad Movie, from like the 60's (i'm not that old, I just like old school movies). A clock maker created a robotic kali, goddess of destruction) Why did he make her instead of say Aries, or Baldur? They never explain it, yet it works. There seems like a backlash against female robots in any form in regards to transformers.

Anime is full of female robots, some good some bad. It's up to the writers to make them interesting. But I know you guys feel like female bots are a sellout, so i'll stop now. Theres no rational way to get folks to accept something, they are dead set against.

I'll end with If she's in cool, if not cool.
At least put Prowl in the movie.


PS: Whats the difference between adding the twins over a fem bot ^^. If robots cant be female, according to this thread. Why should they be twins, especially Sunstreaker and Sideswipe,since "genetically" they are the same.

double standards perhaps?

I call them the twin simply because that is what people have come to call them. I do not think they are twins nor would I want them portrayed that way.
Maybe they are just overly competitive with each other due to very similar skill levels and each bots own competitive nature. Have them tryng to one up eachother.

I dont need examples of how its been done before, I get that,I dont care one way or the other. Great cool robots have been girls. Their also in a compleley differant context. it is off topic to this universe and irrelavant. Please re read what I wrote and answer the two questons I asked of you so that I can better understand what you want from this character.



Suspending belief should only be used when nessasary to the plot or the important conceptual factors. Arcee is not important to the story nor the concept.

You dont have to explain it, it would stick out like a sore thumb. No ones gonna ask about the gorrilla in the tuxedo?

I have to say, I fully agree with Skowl here. I mean, I'm not really a fan of any of the femme Transformers we've been introduced to, but I think it could be interesting to have some diversity.

Suspension of Belief is a wondrous thing.

Hell, if you tried to take every movie seriously and realistically, you'd have a hard time finding one to enjoy. X-Men wouldn't make sense to you, Harry Potter would make you gag, Star Wars would give you an aneurysm, Star Trek and Lord of the Rings would break your psyche, and Transformers would make you question the sanity of the people who made it.

I say, lean back, relax, and just have a good time. So long as the movie is done well, who cares if there is a chick-bot running around?

And to anyone who didn't like the movie, while I respect your opinion, I'm hoping you will respect that I REALLY enjoyed it.

<3

I just think suspention of disbelief needs to be used sparingly. Robotic aliens? Ok got to have it. Little bit of mass shifting? Ok, essential to the story. Female robot? Dont need it. scrap it. Next of 10000 characters please!

T Honk wrote:I just think suspention of disbelief needs to be used sparingly. Robotic aliens? Ok got to have it. Little bit of mass shifting? Ok, essential to the story. Female robot? Dont need it. scrap it. Next of 10000 characters please!

Is it wrong to want something that isn't essential to a story?

90% of all the Transformers characters ever made are not "essential" to any story...

When you have to add an element that, regardless of right or wrong, begs a question that doesnt have an answer it should be essential.Arcee just doesnt merit the trouble. People will wonder and it does add cheese.
You can want all day doesnt mean youll get itor should get it ; me included, but most are with me.

T Honk just because alot of people "seem" to agree, doesn't make you right.

Anywho, if she appears cool, if not cool. I'll still enjoy the movies. and I guess girl robots will still have cooties.

I just don't think that's a place the Transformers story needs to tred. And if they do, tred carefully. The first movie had plenty of awkward sex jokes and I fear bringing in Arcee will just be cannon foder for more.

I'd rather they bring in other characters that could into the story smoother and help develope the already establish characters even further. I like the idea that Barricade may/may not have survived the first film. If he does show up again, I'd think bringing Prowl in (as another Police car) would be an awesome thing. Imagine two police cars you can barely tell apart battleing it out between alt modes and bipedal forms. You'll never know which one is which until they Transform.