The Energon Pub

shamone wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

shamone wrote:to be fair its easy to see both sides

the matrix was not introduced to the series during the first two seasons, therefore viewers cannot make assumption that it did exist

On the other hand the matrix was planned to be introduced and was introduced during the movie, and it was suggested it always existed

Therefore you can make the reasoning that yes, the dinobots were created from the matrix, since it always existed, on the other hand it can be seen as a convenient retcon, in that some viewers can say, that at the time the matrix was an unknown entity, and is not being used to explain previous events.

And whether it was in production or meant to be introduced during season 2 is irrelevant, irrelevant to the viewer, who would not have been aware if it at the time. their first introduction to the matrix would be the movie

I never denyied that the viewer would be unaware.

But, when you [not saying you in particular] say something like "it wasnt written" then your stepping out of the purview of the viewer and entering the domain of the creators.

which means its safe to say that the viewer may feel that the reason was shoehorned in after the event

again, never denied or argued again est that.

F Prime wrote:The confusing bit re: "Guardian Drones", to me, is that the term is used in G1 to refer to the drones on Cybertron...I don't know if it would apply to any drone that guards something. Even if the Dinobots are drones (which I don't consider them to be) I wouldn't call them Guardian Drones.

If you mean the giant obese blue redecos of Omega Supreme, those would be the Guardian Robots.

@The Matrix giving life in the cartoon, that NEVER happened. It was never ever indicated that the Matrix of Leadership functioned in anyway like the Creation Matrix other than having the ability to destroy Unicron. The Creation Matrix contained the sacred lifeforce of Primus that had the power to grant life to non-living non-sentient machines. The Matrix of Leadership, however, contained the accumulated Wisdom of the Ages that could purify even the most corrupted and chaotic of minds, while also somehow serving as Unicron's kryptonite.

The whole Primus = Matrix retcon did not come about until after the cartoon had ended. The Unicron of the cartoon was not perceived as a god, but just a giant robot built by the scientist Primacron. The exact connection between the Matrix of Leadership and Unicron is unclear in the cartoon itself, with it only ever stating that the Matrix is his one weakness and the showing a very Matrix-like object rising from the dead body of Primacron's assistant after Unicron turned on his creator.

Now, there would indeed be later attempts by both the BotCon 3H/Fun Pub comis and the Kiss Players Position story & timeline to retcon Primus into the cartoon continuity to also make Unicron a god and his eternal rival, but as far as the context of just the G1 cartoon at the time goes, there was not even the slightest hint that the Matrix of Leadership could grant life in the same manner as the Creation Matrix.

Why, at the time that they were trying to and ultimately did introduce the Matrix into the cartoon, it was depicted as a physical talisman object, while the comic was still dead set with it being an untangible program installed inside Optimus Prime's head. It would not be until after the G1 movie that Simon Furman would retcon the Creation Matrix to be a tangible object stored in Prime's chest like the Matrix of Leadership. The way he got around the previous program description was by saying that the program was encoded in light patterns in the Matrix's crystal core. Though, the idea that the Creation Matrix contained the lifeforces of its previous bearers was another aspect taken from the cartoon's Matrix of Leadership.

So, it's not so much that the cartoon simply borrowed an idea from the comics, but that it instead merely took inspiration from that idea, created its own version of it, and then the comics took back some of the newer elements from the cartoon's version of what it had created. But the cartoon did not show any signs of having weaved the "Matrix can grant life" aspect of the comic's Creation Matrix into its own Matrix of Leadership.

Sabrblade wrote:

F Prime wrote:The confusing bit re: "Guardian Drones", to me, is that the term is used in G1 to refer to the drones on Cybertron...I don't know if it would apply to any drone that guards something. Even if the Dinobots are drones (which I don't consider them to be) I wouldn't call them Guardian Drones.

If you mean the giant obese blue redecos of Omega Supreme, those would be the Guardian Robots.

@The Matrix giving life in the cartoon, that NEVER happened. It was never ever indicated that the Matrix of Leadership functioned in anyway like the Creation Matrix other than having the ability to destroy Unicron.

I was not thinking of the guardian robots, I was thinking of the guardian droids from the UK comics (which don't apply here) and the robots from Key to Vector Sigma (which also don't apply because they were called Centurian Droids)
My bad.

And I agree, the Matrix of Leadership was never suggested to grant life. Also, I believe there are lines in Key to Vector Sigma that imply VS is the only way to get personalities. However, I am not 100% on that.

F Prime wrote:And I agree, the Matrix of Leadership was never suggested to grant life. Also, I believe there are lines in Key to Vector Sigma that imply VS is the only way to get personalities. However, I am not 100% on that.

Yeah, an example of life without VS would be when the super-intelligent Grimlock built the Technobots from parts of Unicron's head, giving them simple (but not dumb) minds, and then transferring his genius intellect into their combined Computron mind to make them function at full capacity.

F Prime wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

F Prime wrote:The confusing bit re: "Guardian Drones", to me, is that the term is used in G1 to refer to the drones on Cybertron...I don't know if it would apply to any drone that guards something. Even if the Dinobots are drones (which I don't consider them to be) I wouldn't call them Guardian Drones.

If you mean the giant obese blue redecos of Omega Supreme, those would be the Guardian Robots.

@The Matrix giving life in the cartoon, that NEVER happened. It was never ever indicated that the Matrix of Leadership functioned in anyway like the Creation Matrix other than having the ability to destroy Unicron.

I was not thinking of the guardian robots, I was thinking of the guardian droids from the UK comics (which don't apply here) and the robots from Key to Vector Sigma (which also don't apply because they were called Centurian Droids)
My bad.

And I agree, the Matrix of Leadership was never suggested to grant life. Also, I believe there are lines in Key to Vector Sigma that imply VS is the only way to get personalities. However, I am not 100% on that.

Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

Metroplex & trypticon being so huge,were made on earth. since they were created life-less on the earth,so huge+heavy. it would have been hard to drag these 2 to cybertron,push them into the vector sigma granting life spark room & so forth. I don't even think 2 city-formers could even fit inside the vector sigma room that granted sparks to robots.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

deathy wrote:Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

Starscream didn't create those personality components, though. Those five could have still been created by VS in the past.

deathy wrote:Metroplex & trypticon being so huge,were made on earth. since they were created life-less on the earth,so huge+heavy. it would have been hard to drag these 2 to cybertron,push them into the vector sigma granting life spark room & so forth. I don't even think 2 city-formers could even fit inside the vector sigma room that granted sparks to robots.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

Trypticon had the same simple-style brain as the Dinobots. He could have been a similar case to them.

As for Metroplex, how much intelligence did we ever see him to have? He seemed like a walking behemoth of sorts who was little more than a war machine. His mind could have also been simple, but more along the lines of the pre-smart Technobots rather than the uber-simplicity of the Dinobots and Trypticon.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

Starscream did create those personality components, though. Those five could have still been created by VS in the past.

deathy wrote:Metroplex & trypticon being so huge,were made on earth. since they were created life-less on the earth,so huge+heavy. it would have been hard to drag these 2 to cybertron,push them into the vector sigma granting life spark room & so forth. I don't even think 2 city-formers could even fit inside the vector sigma room that granted sparks to robots.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

Trypticon had the same simple-style brain as the Dinobots. He could have been a similar case to them.

As for Metroplex, how much intelligence did we ever see him to have? He seemed like a walking behemoth of sorts who was little more than a war machine. His mind could have also been simple, but more along the lines of the pre-smart Technobots rather than the uber-simplicity of the Dinobots and Trypticon.

both metroplex & trypticon had sparks.

megatron removed 5 sparks from THE COMBATICONS while they had padt lives on cybertron who were traitors to his cause. I NEVER WENT AGAINST THAT. I NEVER SAID STARSCREAMS EARTH BASED COMBATICONS WERE NEW LIFE ENTITIES.

MY MAIN POINT was. Their are other ways to give sparks to transformers in the G-1 cartoon. dragging everyone inside the vector sigma spark granting room ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION.

deathy wrote:MY MAIN POINT was. Their are other ways to give sparks to transformers in the G-1 cartoon. dragging everyone inside the vector sigma spark granting room ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION.

And I was agreeing with you.

I was merely trying to provide some explanation for Trypticon and Metroplex that wouldn't require Vector Sigma.

deathy wrote:Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

it was never said that their personalities that were copied...they said they were removed

Metroplex & trypticon being so huge, were made on earth

Metroplex was made on Earth in Scramble city....which is not in continuity with the US. cartoon, in short, we dont know how he was built.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

And again your letting Japanese continuity cross with hasbros

Hasbros continuity has Trypticon being created after the events of the movie, in short, Megatron had nothing to do with it.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

deathy wrote:Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

it was never said that their personalities that were copied...they said they were removed

Metroplex & trypticon being so huge, were made on earth

Metroplex was made on Earth in Scramble city....which is not in continuity with the US. cartoon, in short, we dont know how he was built.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

And again your letting Japanese continuity cross with hasbros

Hasbros continuity has Trypticon being created after the events of the movie, in short, Megatron had nothing to do with it.

BOTH Trypticon & Metroplex knew each other before viewers had a chance to see both season 3 city formers fight & charge each other in that FFOD episode. As Trypticon & metroplex have similar depth charge vs rampage inner grudge vendetta feelings for each other.
Trypticon is even laughing that mertroplex can't transform & he'll take this advantage to defeat him. their is back history with these 2 city formers that existed well before ther FFOD events/episodes happened.

both metroplex & trpticon were built by megatron & optimus prime after season 2 ended & before the 2005 movie time events started.

Metroplex was said to have been the transforming base in the 2005/1986 animated movie. metroplex was damaged & deactivated that's why he didn't transform into a robot in the 1986/2005 animated TF movie.

Trypticon was also damaged & deactivated during the 1986/2005 movie.
I suspect trypticon was getting repaired & fixed during the FFOD episodes.


I suspect that some time before the 2005 year happened in the movie.
both trpticon & metroplex had some huge fight & both got badly damaged. because their was a huge war between the autobots VS decepticons before the movie started. it's possible since the decepticons were focusing attention on cybertron. the decepticons abaondoned trypticon on the earth & the humans moved into trypticon for a few years,set up shop & claimed the city as theirs. until the decepticons returned in 2006 on earth,repaired trypticon & trypticon transformed & ruined all the humans stores that were built on him.


IF YOUR AGAINST THIS IDEA. PLEASE EXPLAIN why both trypticon & metroplex knew each other,had back story,grudes & hate towards each other when viewers first saw them engage in battle in that season 3 five faces of darkness episode????????????????????????????

deathy wrote:BOTH Trypticon & Metroplex knew each other before viewers had a chance to see both season 3 city formers fight & charge each other in that FFOD episode.

Sorry, but I see no solid evidence to support that.

Not even the characters knowing each others names prtoves that.

If you think you can find solid evidence of that please provide it.

As Trypticon & metroplex have similar depth charge vs rampage inner grudge vendetta feelings for each other.

Trypticon could have been programed with a hate for Metro....Metro would have felt that way because of the destruction he caused on his way to the fight.

Nice try but no cigar.

Trypticon is even laughing that mertroplex can't transform & he'll take this advantage to defeat him.

\

Sorry but that proves nothing.

their is back history with these 2 city formers that existed well before ther FFOD events/episodes happened.

your opinions and assumptions arent evidence.

If thats the case you should be able to provide solid evidence

both metroplex & trpticon were built by megatron & optimus prime after season 2 ended & before the 2005 movie time events started.

If thats the case you should be able to provide solid evidence

Metroplex was said to have been the transforming base in the 2005/1986 animated movie. metroplex was damaged & deactivated that's why he didn't transform into a robot in the 1986/2005 animated TF movie.

Or the city was built to attach to Metro.

Trypticon was also damaged & deactivated during the 1986/2005 movie.
I suspect trypticon was getting repaired & fixed during the FFOD episodes.

If thats the case you should be able to provide solid evidence

IF YOUR AGAINST THIS IDEA. PLEASE EXPLAIN why both trypticon & metroplex knew each other,had back story,grudes & hate towards each other when viewers first saw them engage in battle in that season 3 five faces of darkness episode????????????????????????????

I'm not "AGAINST YOUR IDEA"......I just dont see any solid evidence to support iy.

As for disproving your examples...............
already did, and quite easily I might add.

Theres no solid evidence they knew each other.

Hatred could have been programed into trypty

Metro would have hated because of Trypties actions

And theres no evidence of a back story in Try's case.

To clear up my stance before I respond to the quotes below: I do believe an alternate source was needed (at least, in canon...I really don't think the writers were concerned with where the sparks came from when the Dinobots and Techonobots were created). I do not believe that alternate source is the Matrix of Leadership, but I don't have an alternate explanation without some serious "behind the scenes" shenanigans.

deathy wrote:megatron removed 5 sparks from THE COMBATICONS while they had padt lives on cybertron who were traitors to his cause. I NEVER WENT AGAINST THAT. I NEVER SAID STARSCREAMS EARTH BASED COMBATICONS WERE NEW LIFE ENTITIES.

Please stop yelling.

I must have misunderstood your point...I thought you were arguing that there re-creation on Earth proved that sparks could be created. My interpretation is that they already had sparks.

deathy wrote: MY MAIN POINT was. Their are other ways to give sparks to transformers in the G-1 cartoon. dragging everyone inside the vector sigma spark granting room ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION.

Yup, that does seem to be the case.

deathy wrote: I don't even think 2 city-formers could even fit inside the vector sigma room that granted sparks to robots.

I don't have a real opinion on how Metroplex and Trypticon received Sparks (although I do feel they have them). However, even if VS is the only way to get sparks I was not imagining the city-formers going to the chamber. Their personality components could have been granted sparks before they were implanted...which matches up with my opinion of the Combaticons having sparks before their Earth-bodies (the main difference being that we know the Combaticons had bodies pre-Earth while we don't really know that much about Metroplex in that regard.)

deathy wrote: because no one admits their wrong,no one concedes,everyone when doing these types of replies thinks their more smarter/superior than the other guy their replting to.

I am sorry you feel this way, but I have witnessed pretty much everyone on these boards admit they were wrong at some point or another. Actually, you are the only one involved in this conversation who I *haven't* seen admit they were wrong, but that proves nothing as I have only read your posts in this one thread. I will assume, until shown otherwise, that you are a perfectly reasonable human being.

Just because people don't immediately bend to your debating points doesn't mean they refuse to admit they are wrong and that they are smug. Maybe they just believe their side with the same passion that you believe yours? There is no need to deride someone because they have a different opinion.

how vital is cybertronium to transformers that for some reason wheeljack and ratchet can build the dinobots without them but the rest of the transformers (at least at that episode) can't operate properly without them?

Looking back at what I wrote on this matter in my Exodus Vs. project, I spotted the following regarding Cybertronian birth in the G1 cartoon:

• The original Cybertronians were created by the Quintessons, with their bodies forged from the Plasma Energy Chamber and granted life by Vector Sigma. Later generations of Cybertronians were apparently birthed by being built by pre-existing Cybertronians.
• New Transformers could simply be mechanically constructed later in the war, with or without Vector Sigma’s life-granting abilities.

And let's not forget, the concept of sparks was first introduced in Beast Wars. At the time of the G1 cartoon's existence, the life status of a Transformer wasn't as cemented as it is today, hence all these headaches we're having trying to wrap the spark retcon around preexisting material that didn't cover such a topic very much.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:MY MAIN POINT was. Their are other ways to give sparks to transformers in the G-1 cartoon. dragging everyone inside the vector sigma spark granting room ISN'T THE ONLY OPTION.

And I was agreeing with you.

I was merely trying to provide some explanation for Trypticon and Metroplex that wouldn't require Vector Sigma.

Sorry,thanks for agreeing with me.

Optimus Primevil wrote:how vital is cybertronium to transformers that for some reason wheeljack and ratchet can build the dinobots without them but the rest of the transformers (at least at that episode) can't operate properly without them?

The way I took it, cybertronium was only vital to transformers whos current bodies originated on Cybertron

deathy wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

deathy wrote:Their was that one G-1 season 2 episode. where starscream went to cybertron. then stole 5 decepticons personalities that were copied on to something & put them inside his 5 self created combaticons on the earth.

it was never said that their personalities that were copied...they said they were removed

Metroplex & trypticon being so huge, were made on earth

Metroplex was made on Earth in Scramble city....which is not in continuity with the US. cartoon, in short, we dont know how he was built.

both prime & megatron had to of found another way to place sparks inside their city former on the earth.

And again your letting Japanese continuity cross with hasbros

Hasbros continuity has Trypticon being created after the events of the movie, in short, Megatron had nothing to do with it.

BOTH Trypticon & Metroplex knew each other before viewers had a chance to see both season 3 city formers fight & charge each other in that FFOD episode. As Trypticon & metroplex have similar depth charge vs rampage inner grudge vendetta feelings for each other.
Trypticon is even laughing that mertroplex can't transform & he'll take this advantage to defeat him. their is back history with these 2 city formers that existed well before ther FFOD events/episodes happened.

both metroplex & trpticon were built by megatron & optimus prime after season 2 ended & before the 2005 movie time events started.

Metroplex was said to have been the transforming base in the 2005/1986 animated movie. metroplex was damaged & deactivated that's why he didn't transform into a robot in the 1986/2005 animated TF movie.

Trypticon was also damaged & deactivated during the 1986/2005 movie.
I suspect trypticon was getting repaired & fixed during the FFOD episodes.


I suspect that some time before the 2005 year happened in the movie.
both trpticon & metroplex had some huge fight & both got badly damaged. because their was a huge war between the autobots VS decepticons before the movie started. it's possible since the decepticons were focusing attention on cybertron. the decepticons abaondoned trypticon on the earth & the humans moved into trypticon for a few years,set up shop & claimed the city as theirs. until the decepticons returned in 2006 on earth,repaired trypticon & trypticon transformed & ruined all the humans stores that were built on him.


IF YOUR AGAINST THIS IDEA. PLEASE EXPLAIN why both trypticon & metroplex knew each other,had back story,grudes & hate towards each other when viewers first saw them engage in battle in that season 3 five faces of darkness episode????????????????????????????

quick answer

its all speculation and personal theory

I would just like to add that the one episode "Scramble city" does count as canon towards the G-1 1980' TF cartoon series. Because Takara released the Scramble city episode in various sets of their complete japanese cartoons DVD releases.

Metroplex was in that one episode of scramble city. during that scramble city episode a decepticon casssete/bot recorded the design plans of metroplex.

After that scramble city episode ended their was a comming attraction for the second episode that would of had Tryticon in it.

this is why metroplex & trypticon already knew each other & hated each other before viewers same them fight in FFOD. Because both city formers knew each other way before in that scramble city series.

most fans view that scramble city episode as a peek into the past during the lost years when season 2 ended & season 3 started.

FYI for those who don't know. Their were tons of animated scenes for scramble city that got recycled & put into the japanese headmasters series.

deathy wrote:I would just like to add that the one episode "Scramble city" does count as canon towards the G-1 1980' TF cartoon series. Because Takara released the Scramble city episode in various sets of their complete japanese cartoons DVD releases.

Metroplex was in that one episode of scramble city. during that scramble city episode a decepticon casssete/bot recorded the design plans of metroplex.

After that scramble city episode ended their was a comming attraction for the second episode that would of had Tryticon in it.

this is why metroplex & trypticon already knew each other & hated each other before viewers same them fight in FFOD. Because both city formers knew each other way before in that scramble city series.

most fans view that scramble city episode as a peek into the past during the lost years when season 2 ended & season 3 started.

FYI for those who don't know. Their were tons of animated scenes for scramble city that got recycled & put into the japanese headmasters series.

Scramble City is canon only for the Japanese dub version of the cartoon (Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers), but not for the English language version of the cartoon.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:I would just like to add that the one episode "Scramble city" does count as canon towards the G-1 1980' TF cartoon series. Because Takara released the Scramble city episode in various sets of their complete japanese cartoons DVD releases.

Metroplex was in that one episode of scramble city. during that scramble city episode a decepticon casssete/bot recorded the design plans of metroplex.

After that scramble city episode ended their was a comming attraction for the second episode that would of had Tryticon in it.

this is why metroplex & trypticon already knew each other & hated each other before viewers same them fight in FFOD. Because both city formers knew each other way before in that scramble city series.

most fans view that scramble city episode as a peek into the past during the lost years when season 2 ended & season 3 started.

FYI for those who don't know. Their were tons of animated scenes for scramble city that got recycled & put into the japanese headmasters series.

Scramble City is canon only for the Japanese dub version of the cartoon (Fight! Super Robot Lifeform Transformers), but not for the English language version of the cartoon.

No,scramble city is canon for everything not just the japanese market. thats like saying nothing Japanese TF created is canon for american transformers.

my guess is the SHOUT japanese headmasters series will include the scramble city episode. which should make it even more canon for america.

if scramble city isn't released in shouts headmaster series. then it stands a great chance of being released in shouts masterforce or victory series.

most like shout will also include the ZONE episode in one of it's japanese Transformers series. most likely it'll be included in victory.

It's common knowledge,every TF fan who grew up during 1984 knows this.

deathy wrote:No,scramble city is canon for everything not just the japanese market.

It is canon for ONLY the Japanese continuity because it doesn't exist in the American continuity.

deathy wrote:thats like saying nothing Japanese TF created is canon for american transformers.

No it really isn't. Not every Japanese TF creation is canon for the American fiction. The Japanese have their own separate continuity for their dub of the G1 cartoon, as evidenced by how season 3 in the English version is followed by The Rebirth and then Powermaster Optimus Prime telling stories to Tommy Kennedy, while in the Japanese version, it is instead followed by The Headmasters, Chōjin Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Return of Convoy, Operation Combination, G-2, eHobby manga, etc.

deathy wrote:my guess is the SHOUT japanese headmasters series will include the scramble city episode. which should make it even more canon for america.

Not true.
1. The Shout! Factory The Headmasters DVDs set is already out, and it does not include Scramble City.
2. Shout! Factory was denied Scramble City by Toei when they tried to get it for their Matrix DVD set. They still have not gotten it and aren't trying to get it so much anymore.
3. Even if they got it, subtitled and all, that still would not make it canon for the English version.
4. Metrodome DID get Scramble City subbed (or at least, the subbed bootleg of it) for their Ultimate Edition DVD of the 1986 G1 movie, but again, that does not make it canon to the English version.

deathy wrote:if scramble city isn't released in shouts headmaster series. then it stands a great chance of being released in shouts masterforce or victory series.

See above.

deathy wrote:most like shout will also include the ZONE episode in one of it's japanese Transformers series. most likely it'll be included in victory.

They're trying to get Zone, but they're having little luck with getting it too. Their trying, but they've made no promise that they will get it.

deathy wrote:I would just like to add that the one episode "Scramble city" does count as canon towards the G-1 1980' TF cartoon series. Because Takara released the Scramble city episode in various sets of their complete japanese cartoons DVD releases.

Which means its canon twards Japanese continuity, not Hasbro....which is what I said in the first place.

most fans view that scramble city episode as a peek into the past during the lost years when season 2 ended & season 3 started.

what viewers and you nconsider for your personal canon is fine.

But its not official.

Theres nothing in Hasbro's G1 toon series that proves the characters vin question ever ment before 5fod.

FYI for those who don't know. Their were tons of animated scenes for scramble city that got recycled & put into the japanese headmasters series.

also not canon twards the Hasbro G1 toon continuity.

deathy wrote:No,scramble city is canon for everything not just the japanese market.

Your flat out wrong.

thats like saying nothing Japanese TF created is canon for american transformers.

its not, unless its been adopted officially.

And when its done they normally change things, like they did with God Jinri.

They completely changed who and what he was.

my guess is the SHOUT japanese headmasters series will include the scramble city episode. which should make it even more canon for america.

Nope, it would just be a added bonous for fans.

And thou its getting/got a US release, it doesnt add it to the same continuity as the G1 toon.

Sabrblade wrote:

deathy wrote:No,scramble city is canon for everything not just the japanese market.

It is canon for ONLY the Japanese continuity because it doesn't exist in the American continuity.

deathy wrote:thats like saying nothing Japanese TF created is canon for american transformers.

No it really isn't. Not every Japanese TF creation is canon for the American fiction. The Japanese have their own separate continuity for their dub of the G1 cartoon, as evidenced by how season 3 in the English version is followed by The Rebirth and then Powermaster Optimus Prime telling stories to Tommy Kennedy, while in the Japanese version, it is instead followed by The Headmasters, Chōjin Masterforce, Victory, Zone, Return of Convoy, Operation Combination, G-2, eHobby manga, etc.

deathy wrote:my guess is the SHOUT japanese headmasters series will include the scramble city episode. which should make it even more canon for america.

Not true.
1. The Shout! Factory The Headmasters DVDs set is already out, and it does not include Scramble City.
2. Shout! Factory was denied Scramble City by Toei when they tried to get it for their Matrix DVD set. They still have not gotten it and aren't trying to get it so much anymore.
3. Even if they got it, subtitled and all, that still would not make it canon for the English version.
4. Metrodome DID get Scramble City subbed (or at least, the subbed bootleg of it) for their Ultimate Edition DVD of the 1986 G1 movie, but again, that does not make it canon to the English version.

deathy wrote:if scramble city isn't released in shouts headmaster series. then it stands a great chance of being released in shouts masterforce or victory series.

See above.

deathy wrote:most like shout will also include the ZONE episode in one of it's japanese Transformers series. most likely it'll be included in victory.

They're trying to get Zone, but they're having little luck with getting it too. Their trying, but they've made no promise that they will get it.

Except,Scramble city was originally planned to air in america before hasbro changed gears & went into the animated 1986 movie Direction.

Scramble city was most likely in the beginning used by Hasbro as a promo episode. to show all the networks what they were getting the following year/years.

metroplex & trypticon clearly knew each other in FFOD before viewers saw them battle for the first time. they had memories of each other,knew each others names & had hate fueled vendettas before viewers got to see them fight in that FFOD episode.