Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.
ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
As for the magic the gathering thing, they've been censoring cards since the days of the original unholy strength, this is hardly suprising.
ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
You're right it wasn't along a left/right split. Still other trends were clearly identified young/old particularly also between the 4 nations. I'm not convinced the remoaner/gammon split has gone away either.
ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
You're right it wasn't along a left/right split. Still other trends were clearly identified young/old particularly also between the 4 nations. I'm not convinced the remoaner/gammon split has gone away either.
Funnily enough I was interviewed for a segment on BBC Radio 4 for a few months and compared to others living on the same street (can't quite remember why my old street was chosen) and I saw the divides there between ages and education levels.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
You're right it wasn't along a left/right split. Still other trends were clearly identified young/old particularly also between the 4 nations. I'm not convinced the remoaner/gammon split has gone away either.
Funnily enough I was interviewed for a segment on BBC Radio 4 for a few months and compared to others living on the same street (can't quite remember why my old street was chosen) and I saw the divides there between ages and education levels.
I can't think of anyone I know over 60 who didn't vote for brexit and I can't think of anyone under 40 who did. Can't say I've personally seen the education split myself but have read the data that backs that up. I'm just waiting for a rejoin party to form.
ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
You're right it wasn't along a left/right split. Still other trends were clearly identified young/old particularly also between the 4 nations. I'm not convinced the remoaner/gammon split has gone away either.
Funnily enough I was interviewed for a segment on BBC Radio 4 for a few months and compared to others living on the same street (can't quite remember why my old street was chosen) and I saw the divides there between ages and education levels.
I can't think of anyone I know over 60 who didn't vote for brexit and I can't think of anyone under 40 who did. Can't say I've personally seen the education split myself but have read the data that backs that up. I'm just waiting for a rejoin party to form.
The second they do, the media will jump on them, look at the press reaction to the judges that ruled that Brexit had to be passed by Parliament or those mps who did try to form their own group.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:High Command wrote:ZeroWolf wrote:I only say it wasn't a culture war because people on both sides of the left/right divide actually voted for Brexit in the first place. I mean isn't that what a culture war comes down to? Us vs them, right vs left etc etc.
You're right it wasn't along a left/right split. Still other trends were clearly identified young/old particularly also between the 4 nations. I'm not convinced the remoaner/gammon split has gone away either.
Funnily enough I was interviewed for a segment on BBC Radio 4 for a few months and compared to others living on the same street (can't quite remember why my old street was chosen) and I saw the divides there between ages and education levels.
I can't think of anyone I know over 60 who didn't vote for brexit and I can't think of anyone under 40 who did. Can't say I've personally seen the education split myself but have read the data that backs that up. I'm just waiting for a rejoin party to form.
The second they do, the media will jump on them, look at the press reaction to the judges that ruled that Brexit had to be passed by Parliament or those mps who did try to form their own group.
The only way I could see it working would be to start it as a deliberate satire and try to be as annoying as possible to brexit voting people. Make up all sorts of outlandish claims, like Spain promising everyone who votes to rejoin the EU a free house with swimming pool.
ShadowKatt wrote:I read your post earlier and I wanted to take some time to think of a response. I don't like speaking off the cuff, I like to consider my words before I use them. I was drafting my response in my head while I was browsing through the news and now I feel like all that time was wasted because I saw something that encapsulated everything wrong with it in a single article.
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/diversity-and-dnd
Just in case you dont want to read it, this is essentially a public release from WotC explaining how their depictions of orcs and drow have been culturally insensitive and they're going to change things to do better. This is a FANTASY GAME. The humans are just humans. The elves are just elves. The dwarves are just dwarves. And the orcs are just orcs. This is why the public collectively groans every time a big corperation decides to hop on board the bandwagon, because eventually it turns to the customers, the hobbyists, or just the fans and tell us that our hobby, which for so long was just fine, is now bad and now it has to change. And if you're against that change, well that makes you bad too.
They just did the same thing with Magic the Gathering. A game about monsters and magic, factions, guilds, and alliances, warfare and conquest across different dimensions and planes, and now they're purging their collections of anything that could ever be remotely misconstrued as racist or problematic. Cards like Crusade, which in a deck of white creatures(Mostly knights, soldiers, and priests) gives them more attack and defense. Because of the cultural implications, it's not only being banned but removed from any further prints and recalled from retail sales. This is insanity.
Several people earlier made a joke about Prowl being left in the image Hasbro put out because we all expected that he would be removed. There are still people calling for him to be removed from that image if you look at Hasbro's social media, no matter what platform. And what's next, are they going to pull Prowl from retail sales? Just tell any store that has Prowl on the shelves to either return or trash them. How about removing the character from the upcoming cartoon? Why not pull all the older cartoons and release an edited "SPECIAL EDITION" with no Prowl in it. You know, like the soviets used to do with people that disappeared in the middle of the night.
THIS is why people don't want corperate entities to get involved. I don't care about celebrities or athletes, they're people, they can do what they want. Businesses exist to provide a product or service and EVERY SINGLE TIME this comes up it ends one of two ways: Either they pay lip service and they get accused of not doing enough or they go the other extreme and start destroying and sanitizing their entire business lest they be branded the next problematic entity, even though the action of doing so is just going to be taken as evidence that they were already a problematic entity.
We have some real **** problems in this world. Forget police, lets call it athoritarian overreach and abuse as a whole so we can cover law enforcement, courts, judges, and everyone else that falls under that umbrella. We have class disparities in this world that leave people **** starving when we could be doing more to help boost their infrastructure and quality of life. Don't even have to leave the country for that, we could start with our own homeless populations. But instead we get **** THIS. Orcs are racist. Drow are racist. I'm sure if they pull their head out of their ass long enough to remember the Duergar, THEY'LL be racist. Trading cards are racist. Transformers are racist. I am so **** DONE with this whole thing.
You want to have some kind of discussion and change you need to start with THIS. And I'm sorry if I'm not coming off as my normal, more reserved and eloquent self but right now I am **** apoplectic with rage. You want to fight for equal civil rights, I **** promise you this isn't helping, because it's making people like me look at the whole movement and say to hell with it. Dungeons and Dragons has NOTHING to do with police brutality. Magic the Gathering has NOTHING to do with criminal injustice in the court system. Transformers has NOTHING to do with wealth disparity in marginalized communities. But the people **** BENT on finding racism in EVERYTHING will find it whereever they can and then shame those people into submission.
If you somehow think that I'm going to be swayed or guilted into joining your cause because you've found a way to impact my hobbies, the things I use to temporarily escape this and recharge to come back and fight the good fight, then you're wrong. And I don't mean to direct this at you personally. But this ranks right up there with someone, because I happen to play a trading card game, walking up to me and screaming "RACIST" and then pulling the cards out of my hands because they're problmatic. That's not how you make an ally. That's how you make enemies. If someone's **** hobby makes you uncomfortable because you think it's racist and it's NOT carving little swastika shaped flutes, you need some god damn counseling.
Rant over.
Absolute Zero wrote:First off. Take a deep breath. Don't post in rage.
Second. I read your link. Once you calm down, I'd suggest rereading it in a detached and objective manner.
Now, there's a lot to unpack here. Starting with M:TG. I like that you chose the crusade card, and not the card that had dudes that looked like they were wearing KKK hoods and burning a cross in the background. I understand on it's face why you wouldn't have any problems with a card called crusade. Crusades are a touchy subject. The west largely downplays it as simply a war between religious factions. And to an extent it was. Except the portrayal of Muslims has largely been more inaccurate than the portrayal of the knights and holy armies. There's a lot of history, but I'm going to break it down simply. Brown people under one religion were in control of the Middle East. They had a very progressive society. They didn't oppress people based on religion; you were free to practice whatever religion you wanted. You just had to pay a tax. This aspect continued all the way up to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. But back on target. The brown people also had advanced mathematics (we use their numbers today this 5 is a Arabic number/character) and had clockworks and fire proof armor and a bunch of other really neat stuff that has to be rediscovered because of the Crusades and other problems after. The white people came angry that brown people were in their holy land and charging taxes for them to pray and war were declared. White people claimed the land as holy because their white washed savior came from there (they ignore that he was not white) and raged. They mostly lost. They won a few times, but mostly lost. Sometimes before they even got there. But when they did get there, hoo boy did they do some evil stuff. There's stories told gleefully about these holy knights killing women and children for sport, and playing a particularly gruesome game of tossing babies up and catching them on their pikes and lances. So, you might want to think about that as to why crusades might be considered culturally insensitive at the least and racist at the worst (I personally view it as casually racist, because most people probably are not aware of history).
OK. Over to D&D. There's a very specific subset of players who don't care about the backgrounds and don't look for depth in their games. We call them murder hobos, because they only care about killing everything. D&D is littered with casual racism, and if you reread that article, you'll see they point that out. Drow are inherently evil and racist matriarchal and all black. Something happened earlier in 5e, where some of the drow were forgiven and their skin lightened up; because black people are evil. Drow society looks like a caricature of what white men think a matriarchal society looks like. As more people in a variety of colors and genders come into the game to play, why should they not have representation? Why should they see the only matriarchal society that exists in almost all the settings as being evil where the women all abuse the men under them? Why should all of the non-white races be inherently evil and they all have to play a Drizzt clone to be able to play a non-white race? As for Orcs, their society makes little sense, aside from the fact they're based on caricatures of tribal societies. Humans are the best race. They're adaptive, they learn quick, they often get extra skills and feats just for being human. The explanation is that humans live shorter lives than the other races, so that makes them some how more adaptable and industrious. Orcs have the same life span. Why are they brutes and racist and incapable of making anything remotely good for armor or weapons? It's not like they live in an isolated society. Why is their -one- god evil? Humans have like 100 gods of varying alignments, Orcs get one evil god. Drow even have a good god.
Western fantasy is built on casual racism and us vs them. When you don't have the literal light skinned people being good vs the dark skinned people being bad, you have the industrialized people who live in large cities are evil and people who live in rural areas are bad. I'm not saying all of it is that way, but more than enough of it is, and a lot of the things that break those molds are recent editions.
You admitted casual racism is just as bad as racism. This is casual racism. And as more than just white men begin picking up and gaining interest in these things, they shouldn't feel alienated.
I'm sorry you feel your hobbies are under attack, but I've been playing D&D for decades, and I honestly do not see your problem here.
ShadowKatt wrote:Absolute Zero wrote:First off. Take a deep breath. Don't post in rage.
Second. I read your link. Once you calm down, I'd suggest rereading it in a detached and objective manner.
Now, there's a lot to unpack here. Starting with M:TG. I like that you chose the crusade card, and not the card that had dudes that looked like they were wearing KKK hoods and burning a cross in the background. I understand on it's face why you wouldn't have any problems with a card called crusade. Crusades are a touchy subject. The west largely downplays it as simply a war between religious factions. And to an extent it was. Except the portrayal of Muslims has largely been more inaccurate than the portrayal of the knights and holy armies. There's a lot of history, but I'm going to break it down simply. Brown people under one religion were in control of the Middle East. They had a very progressive society. They didn't oppress people based on religion; you were free to practice whatever religion you wanted. You just had to pay a tax. This aspect continued all the way up to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. But back on target. The brown people also had advanced mathematics (we use their numbers today this 5 is a Arabic number/character) and had clockworks and fire proof armor and a bunch of other really neat stuff that has to be rediscovered because of the Crusades and other problems after. The white people came angry that brown people were in their holy land and charging taxes for them to pray and war were declared. White people claimed the land as holy because their white washed savior came from there (they ignore that he was not white) and raged. They mostly lost. They won a few times, but mostly lost. Sometimes before they even got there. But when they did get there, hoo boy did they do some evil stuff. There's stories told gleefully about these holy knights killing women and children for sport, and playing a particularly gruesome game of tossing babies up and catching them on their pikes and lances. So, you might want to think about that as to why crusades might be considered culturally insensitive at the least and racist at the worst (I personally view it as casually racist, because most people probably are not aware of history).
OK. Over to D&D. There's a very specific subset of players who don't care about the backgrounds and don't look for depth in their games. We call them murder hobos, because they only care about killing everything. D&D is littered with casual racism, and if you reread that article, you'll see they point that out. Drow are inherently evil and racist matriarchal and all black. Something happened earlier in 5e, where some of the drow were forgiven and their skin lightened up; because black people are evil. Drow society looks like a caricature of what white men think a matriarchal society looks like. As more people in a variety of colors and genders come into the game to play, why should they not have representation? Why should they see the only matriarchal society that exists in almost all the settings as being evil where the women all abuse the men under them? Why should all of the non-white races be inherently evil and they all have to play a Drizzt clone to be able to play a non-white race? As for Orcs, their society makes little sense, aside from the fact they're based on caricatures of tribal societies. Humans are the best race. They're adaptive, they learn quick, they often get extra skills and feats just for being human. The explanation is that humans live shorter lives than the other races, so that makes them some how more adaptable and industrious. Orcs have the same life span. Why are they brutes and racist and incapable of making anything remotely good for armor or weapons? It's not like they live in an isolated society. Why is their -one- god evil? Humans have like 100 gods of varying alignments, Orcs get one evil god. Drow even have a good god.
Western fantasy is built on casual racism and us vs them. When you don't have the literal light skinned people being good vs the dark skinned people being bad, you have the industrialized people who live in large cities are evil and people who live in rural areas are bad. I'm not saying all of it is that way, but more than enough of it is, and a lot of the things that break those molds are recent editions.
You admitted casual racism is just as bad as racism. This is casual racism. And as more than just white men begin picking up and gaining interest in these things, they shouldn't feel alienated.
I'm sorry you feel your hobbies are under attack, but I've been playing D&D for decades, and I honestly do not see your problem here.
I'll give you two things. One, you're right, I shouldn't post in rage, but sometimes the dam overflows. Mine did today. Secondly, I did read D&D article and it's not as if they're taking anything away. I'm just tired of every single thing being accused of racism now. We are falling back to Sarkeesian's quote "Everything is racist, Everything is sexist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out". Honestly, if that's the case, burn it all down and start over. If you firmly believe that everything is problematic these days, and a lot of people seem to, lets just fire every nuke and reduce the world to glass. That's the only way to get all of it.
I'm going to have to take your word for the D&D racism thing. I have literally not read anything of the forgotten realms, the sword coast, any of it. I'm a DM and a writer, I use the system and make up the rest myself. But have you heard the phrase "If you go looking for something hard enough you'll find it"? That's what we're dealing with now. Lets go back to D&D for a moment. If you wanted to play an orc, go play an orc. There's literally nothing stopping you from doing so. Play an orc of any gender, worship whatever god you want, or none, pick a class, make something up for your backstory. I hate to say this but if you're incapable of doing that, then either your DM needs to help you or you need to find a new hobby. And if your DM says no, because orcs MUST be like this, THEN you might actually have a case. Most likely they're overly controlling asshat on a power trip but you might have just found yourself a racist. Get you a horse and rope and go to town. But that's not the games fault, that's the DM. Now that we have to fix the "problematic" orcs and drow, are goblins next? Gnolls? Perhaps we should grab the beasiary and just go page by page to make sure no one gets left out. Where does this END.
As for Magic the gathering, I heard about the card with the hoods. I don't remember what it was but when I heard all the details, yeah, that one's racist. That one is SO racist I can't believe it got through. It even had the card number 1488. But really, that should show just how NOT racist everyone else is that it didn't even trip in their heads that it was a dogwhistle, because THEY didn't hear it. Enough about that one those. As for cards like Crusade and Jihad, these are words in our vocabulary. They mean things. They are not soley attatched to the events of history, events that we look back on and regret (Well, some people do) but that doesn't change them. And banning the damn cards won't change it either. If we cannot handle having trading cards in a game because someone finds the words offensive then maybe we should go through the dictionary as well. I've heard people joke about that but maybe I should be expecting that to come through as well.
Racism is bad, and casual racism is just racism. Casual, overt, covert, they all have the same root words. The culture we are creating through is one that is literally looking for any excuse, anything that could be possibly construed as the slightest bit offensive. People are calling for Prowl to be removed because he's a police car. What if someone doesn't like the US overmilitarization? Should we get rid of all the seekers? What if someone finds Prime offensive because he's a semi truck, one of the biggest contributors to enviromental damage? Prime needs to go too, I suppose. This can't continue.
I know you wanted to bring this back to BLM. That is what this thread is about. But I don't see BLM going to companies like Hasbro and demanding these changes. Some people might be doing it in their name but I don't believe that for a minute. BLM has been out there fighting for real changes, not flexing their mob power to see how many people bow to them. I think this entire situation has gotten out of their hands and away from their cause just like this thread has. If there is to be any hope at all of making an actual difference, this needs to stop. This isn't helping BLM at all. It's actively rolling back everything they're working for by making more and more people hate them. Every person fired from their job over a slight in their social media, every person that loses their hobby to this outrage, every person that speak s up only to be shouted down is going to be one more person sent to the other side and standing against them. You don't want that. I don't want that. I want all this to stop before it gets any worse but I'm doing what I can and what I can do is getting nothing done. I'm just screaming at the wall as it's pushed down.
AcademyofDrX wrote:"What about 'black-on-black' crime in Chicago" is a racist right-wing talking point.
-Kanrabat- wrote:I always take vox-pop with a grain of salt because they are ALWAYS biased.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
High Command wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:I always take vox-pop with a grain of salt because they are ALWAYS biased.
Agreed and here's how it can be done.
-Kanrabat- wrote:California repeal proposition 209 affirmation amendment
https://ballotpedia.org/California_Repe ... ment_(2020)
Wow. Just. Wow.
Americans, I hope you're proud of yourselves. As a Canadian, I'm pretty horrified of what the USA is changing into. Because if the USA sneeze, we catch a cold.
Jesus mother fokking Crayst.
Skritz wrote:All it take is a language and last name's cultural origin to make a difference.
The closest analogy I can make was people shitting on the Irish in past centuries.
-Kanrabat- wrote:Skritz wrote:All it take is a language and last name's cultural origin to make a difference.
The closest analogy I can make was people shitting on the Irish in past centuries.
But... But... racism against "whites" is impossible according to our elites "intellectual" overlords.
Right?
-Kanrabat- wrote:Indeed the supremacists and "progressives" are the two faces of the same coin.
-Kanrabat- wrote:High Command wrote:-Kanrabat- wrote:I always take vox-pop with a grain of salt because they are ALWAYS biased.
Agreed and here's how it can be done.
Damn, that was MASTERFUL. So, yeah, vox-pop should be taken not with a grain of salt but with the whole salt shaker.
This make me remember that with the current leftist inquisition, how much longer such perfect sketches of comedy be scrubbed and censored from History? Because right now, we let the regressives had their way for way too long and it's only a matter of time before Mel Brooks, Monty Python, and other masters get cancelled.
Burn wrote:I'm never clicking any of your links ever again.
Burn wrote:High Command is an arsehat.
AcademyofDrX wrote:I'm guessing that the conversation I'm missing isn't about how much Black Lives Matter.
Registered users: Bing [Bot], blokefish, Glyph, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, Lunatyk, MSN [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]