The Energon Pub

Why do people want to abduct children and harm them???
What makes people feel the need to do harm to innocent children like this?
As a father of two (both daughters, one 16 the other will be 5) this disturbs me more now than it ever has in the past.

When I see this on the news like the most recent case it breaks my heart because that could be my child, or the child of someone I am close with.

I do my best to teach my girls to avoid strangers and what to do if ever approached.
We teach our children these things but it never seems to be enough..

The creeps always manage to nab some children regardless of the warnings we give them...

I've been trying to figure that out for quite some time. I really don't know. I think that most of the people who actually do it don't know, but they're just compelled to. It makes me sick to think of these things, especially when every day I see on the news that some child's body was found or some child went missing. Compounded by sick and injured children, the news depresses me.

My heart breaks even when I *don't* think it could be mine (I have a two-year-old girl and hopefully another baby on the way one day) because I know it's *somebody's*. Even old news, things that have happened over the last few decades, still makes me sad. As a Christian, I take solace in believing that they end up in Heaven, but I know it's still heart-wrenching.

Thanks for posting this. Sometimes I feel like the only one who notices or cares.

A number of possibilities.

One: Dangerous World Syndrome. You have to ask yourself--didn't this crap go on when I was a kid? I'm sure it did, but we never heard about it. So...is the world really more dangerous--are there really more child-abducting/molesting perverts than when we were kids--or is the 24/7 newscycle and Amber Alert just making us more aware of them?

Two: Sexualization of children. It's disgusting. I was at a strip mall the other day and I saw a little girl in a stroller whose t-shirt was labelled 'future porn star'. Really, I have to ask what kind of sick idiot puts that tee on their daughter? I went BALLISTIC at a male friend of mine who bought his then-thirteen year old daughter sweatpants with the word 'juicy' written across the butt. "What's the big deal?" he asked. Geez, just like every other pervert in the universe now has his eyes drawn to her butt and will say, 'sure looks juicy to me'? Nah, I don't see any problem.

Three: sexual submission/pornography. Yeah, 'scuse me whilst I hop on the gender-studies soapbox. Here's the problem. Real women aren't as...passive and submissive to male desire as women in pornography are. Guys who grow up watching a lot of smutty stuff start thinking some pretty awful things are okay, like...nonconsensual sex. Like your desire matters, and hers really doesn't and that she really likes it when you are kind of rough/demeaning. When said guy tries that with, say, a real woman and gets shut down...some of them decide that it's THAT obnoxious woman, or that they're too old, and they should 'get them younger' before all those 'hairy legged feminists' get to the girl and spoil her with these notions of subjectivity and dignity and such. Thinking that way, a young girl is pure and untouched and perfectly passive. With little boys, in Japan it's been enshrined as shouta but it follows the same basic principle. Young, and pure, and acquiescent the way older ones aren't.

Now this isn't just men: how many more stories do I have to hear about female teachers having sex with their underage students? (Excuse me ) Look: I teach, and my kids are technically all above the age of consent but the very thought of it....oh it literally makes me queasy. But apparently it happens--I asked one of my developmental comp students about it (we were talking about creeps on myspace and it came up) that every single one of them knew someone from their high schools who had had sex with a teacher. WTF?!?! We keep sexualizing young folks and this is going to get WORSE. I know those teachers aren't *abducting* the kids, but it comes from the same nest of symptoms and is, at least to me, almost as morally repugnant.

HK, Just think of Jon Benet Ramsey.

Over Sexualization of children.. Yup, this is a HUGE problem in society today..

The answer isn't easy because there are many reasons. It's very easy to write it off as people being "crazy" and "perverted" but it's far too simplistic a view that doesn't address the issue.

I believe that the subject of this thread can be expanded upon. Abduction and harm of children, abduction and harm of adults, as well as animals...all of these behaviors are rooted in various deficits in an individual. People must recognize the complexity of the human being in both the function of the mental and emotional states as well as the development of a human being's mental and emotional states all throughout life.

The vast majority of people in our world(Past, present, and future) are able to reasonably function in society. Those who aren't able to function in such a way tend to be the ones who harm others. Such people aren't always obvious in their appearance or even behavior in most settings that there are some things that aren't working "right" with them.

I think that a large obstacle in reducing such occurrences is that people are quick to demonize and simplify people who harm others. This willful ignorance of the root of their behavior perpetuates the patterns in society that can lead to such behavior. We must take an objective look at the problems and dissect all factors involved. It's not easy. I'm not saying it is. This kind of harm against others is definitely a subject that will evoke strong opinions.

From what I've read, not that I'm by any means well read on the issue, the majority of people who commit acts of harm to others are not born that way. They are not even necessarily brought up that way. More often than not, again from my limited knowledge, it seems that these people went through a series of events in their lives to bring them to the point of being able to commit such acts.

Now it's not that I'm saying if we knew the causes of these problems entirely that we would be able prevent every case but the vast majority of people in the world are ignorant to the conditions and social structures that can contribute to the development of behavior that is harmful to others. If we can better understand and recognize such conditions, we can hopefully prevent such harmful development in most people.

I spoke of deficits earlier...I hesitate to say chemical or emotional deficits because it's not that simple. It's not one or the other. It's not just those two. It's a combination of these and other factors.

I also hesitate to use "chemical" and "emotional" because it implies that the problems can be simply "fixed" by a pill or injection or having more love shown to someone. This isn't the case. On the other hand, a lot of people believe that by including those factors in the discussion that somehow it is an attempt to remove responsibility from the people who commit such acts of harm. This also is not the case. However, chemical and emotional issues are interconnected as the chemistry of the body has been demonstrated as a factor in regulating emotional states, which significantly affects behavior.

One of the consistent findings of cases of people who harm others, who exhibit deviant behavior, is that their brain and body chemistry differ from "normal"/"stable" people. Again, this is not a sole cause but from a logical and rational standpoint, one should not ignore the significant affect that chemical regulation of the body and brain are a, if not the, main factor in behavior of humans.

I agree that over sexualization of youths is a factor but hardly a cornerstone of the cause in the overall picture. Children have been abused, unfortunately, in most if not all cultures, throughout at least recorded history. A child doesn't have to be sexualized at all in appearance to be targeted by someone who has intent to abduct and sexually assault a child. Similarly, a man or woman doesn't have to be dressed in a provocative manner to be targeted for sexual assault. The assaulter has already set in their mind that they will assault someone.

Now personally, I strongly dislike some of the accepted fashion trends such as the aforementioned clothes for girls with suggestive captions as well as clothes that are revealing.

After all this talk of mine about causes and developmental conditions, I certainly accept that there must be some cases where some people are born with these issues due to a variety of issues. Some people seem to be destined for their path of harm. However, these cases are extremes and exceptions to the majority of issues.

I also believe that we should recognize that developmental conditions contribute to all varieties of deviant behavior. There's a relationship between the decision to assault someone sexually or violently or steal from them or any other kind of destructive behavior. They all involve disregard for the wellbeing of others because of their urge to fulfill a desire becomes greater than their inhibitions.

I believe that when people understand and recognize the importance of the variety of factors that lead to destructive behavior, the development of such behavior can be reduced to a significant degree. If we remain with the mindset that people who commit harmful acts are simply crazy psycho killers or perverts without looking further into the issue, we, as a global society, will continue to contribute, inadvertently, to the cultivation of destructive behavior.

The long and short of it is some people are sick. Very sick.

The over sexualisation of children is just something that increases their temptation.

One of my friends at school was the cousin of a girl who was kidnapped, raped and murdered when she was 6 (I was the same age at the time). What I remembered of that was parents suddenly becoming very paranoid and over protective. It was a sad indication that NZL was changing, and not for the better. It took over 20 years to get the bastard and if it wasn't for the fact my sister was 8 months prego at the time she would have been on his jury. She did see him. She did hear the lawyers talk of him. And she said he came across as a very sad and unwell individual.

It probably doesn't help that life is now very cheap. The values that would have stemmed the behaviour or stopped it once upon a time have now been dispatched with.

Well over here in Heck, every time an election year comes around the kidnapping rate soars by 100s of %s. And sorry, nothing you can do, the government and cops are in on it (most of the time they do the kidnappin' themselves )

To put it short, there are some F****** up people in this world.

I think all rapists, child abductors/molesters should be shot after the guilty verdict is announced, not parolled 5 years later for good behavior, honestly, they aren't going to do ANYTHING in prision since no kids/women are around, why don't people think of that?

Bloodlust wrote:To put it short, there are some F****** up people in this world.

I think all rapists, child abductors/molesters should be shot after the guilty verdict is announced, not parolled 5 years later for good behavior, honestly, they aren't going to do ANYTHING in prision since no kids/women are around, why don't people think of that?

I don't want to play Devil's advocate--I don't know if there's anyone I hate more than the degenerates who violate babies, infants, or children--but shot? I'm not a psychologist, but I think some of these people aren't responsible for their actions in the same way we are. Responsible? Yes. In the same way? No. they don't know what they're doing. (Do they not? Well, that's for a better read person here to inform us. But for the sake of argument, let's keep going.) They're in the same position as someone who has a delusion and just snaps, killing anyone under insanity. There's no trace of rationality left. So they should be locked up, but killing them might be unjust in this sense. Even with those that DO know.... I don't want to enter the politics of the we're-no-better-than-them game.

Now, I totally agree about parole. These ****** have done something that will always scar lives: parents, siblings, family, friends, classrooms, etc. They did the deed. Even after rigorous "detox" sessions, I'm not willing to risk letting them out and seeing if they strike again. These psychology sessions are no more than one-size-fits-all guessing games.

That was Devil's advocate, though. As biased as he is, the parent in me wants them shot.

I moved this to the Philosophers forum since the discussion has gotten so deep.

There have been cases over here very recently, that have obscured any possible preconceptions I had about why people feel the need to abduct, abuse or harm a child in any way. This has very little to do with over sexualisation either, which is what I feel is a major problem with kids' fashion these days.

This case was a nursery worker a woman around the same age as me who abused the babies, BABIES in her care!... What could drive anyone to want to abuse a baby, a toddler is completely beyond me. I personally don't understand the mentality, maybe it is chemical, possibly environmental, it's more likely a combination of all of these things.

I do agree with the statement that perpetrators of these crimes should be shot, without any hesitation... or put through a fate worse than death. I am not a parent and one of my reasons for not wanting to be is how cruel and apathetic this world really is.

I also think a lot of the problem is society trying to make kids grow up too fast. I did train as a teacher for just under a year when I was 21 and I know I look young for my age, but these kids who were 5 - 10 years younger than me, spoke to me like I was one of them, they spoke to all their teachers that way bar a couple. Most teenagers are so hormone driven that they simply don't see much of their behaviour as overtly sexual and if they do they simply don't care.. for example 12 year old girls hitching their school skirts up until they're practically a belt so they can impress that new boy or whatever, it has always happened. Happened when I was at school, when my mum was at school and is happening now. And unless these kids have parents or people around them who are willing to point out the dangers to them, the world just becomes a much more dangerous place for the ignorant.

This isn't me placing blame, don't get me wrong, bringing any harm onto children is a heinous act and should never EVER be condoned but you have to ask yourself are we letting this happen? Yeah we have sex offenders' registers to monitor the sick ones who have been caught and social workers taking care of abused children within families but are we doing enough? I have found that parents over here shelter their kids far too much. They don't want to tell them the horrors of the world, of not trusting strangers, of not talking to people you don't know online. I mean to me it's just good sense but soo many aren't telling their children, why? I came from a rough neighbourhood, and a not so pleasant upbringing, my dad made sure I was scared of what was out there, not to the point where I wouldn't leave the house, but to the point where I was careful, where I was wary of others' intentions.

It used to get taught at schools, they just don't teach it anymore, it's like burying your head in the sand syndrome and pretending it will go away. I mean just this week a 17 year old was found dead after meeting up with someone online... by 17 she should know how dangerous this is right? Yet it still happens. It makes me angry.

There is no one definite cause for this I feel, but I honestly don't think that enough gets done to prevent it. And now we have children abusing other children sexually and otherwise, it probably has always happened. The question I feel is not why this happens, or how to punish the individuals who do this but why have we let it go on for so long and what can we do NOW to stop it? Now it's gotten to the point where the media no longer gets in a frenzy over a case of a missing child, because... it's another missing child... the apathy of society regarding issues like these is what sickens me. We know it goes on, we know it happens, but nobody does a damn thing about it until it happens again then there is uproar for a while, then it all quietens down until another unsuspecting, innocent child becomes the victim.

We shouldn't be asking why people do this, we should be demanding what can be done to stop it.

Bloodlust wrote:To put it short, there are some F****** up people in this world.

I think all rapists, child abductors/molesters should be shot after the guilty verdict is announced, not parolled 5 years later for good behavior, honestly, they aren't going to do ANYTHING in prision since no kids/women are around, why don't people think of that?

Recently a guy was released from prison after serving 10 years for raping a 12 year old girl.

Why was he released?

Turns out he was innocent.

Another case we had recently, a guy who spent 15 years in prision for the murder of his family, he finally got a retrial and lo and behold - innocent.

That's not to say EVERYONE in prison is innocent, but imagine if those two men had been executed? Chances are no one would have ever pushed for an investigation, but the reason the death penalty in NZL is illegal is because some poor schmoo got hanged for something he didn't do.

We can't go around killing people because they commit morally debase actions.

Besides, prison is much worse, esp.if it isn't a summer camp with the occasional arse raping.