The Energon Pub

decepta-scott wrote: If you wanted to continue our debate, you and sarblade should have kept it in the other thread. Your comments have no place here.

Dude, the very first sentence you wrote in this topic was a direct reference to the other topic. Even though you kept all names anonymous, it was still plainly obvious what you were referring to.

Because you brought it up like so, you pretty much made this thread a Version 2.0 (of sorts) of that other discussion. It's only expected that the parties involved before would get involved this time around too since you carried it over from there to here to begin with.

If you didn't want anyone from before coming into here, it would have been best to make no connection between this topic and that topic, yet you did and so here we are.

decepta-scott wrote: I know that I dont run it. Youll know If I ever do because you will be removed.

I believe that's called "abuse of power".

decepta-scott wrote:because You are disrespectful. TA TA.

I never once disrespected you. I never once attacked you. I never made any personal offenses towards you. It is you who is taking this all too seriously, and that is no attack either, but an observation.

If you are offended by even the slightest of disagreement with another user, then I'd suggest you seek some help because, frankly, a condition that serious would leave me concerned about your well being.

oops double post. apologies.

Actually I figured Youd both weigh in and wanted you to. I didnt expect you to [post what was posted though. I realy didnt think that many people were paying any attention to our arguement on the other thread so I didnt see how most would put two and two together.
I wanted to get others opinions on this matter to see where the board stood. Maybe I should left out the bit about being made aware that people didnt think wheeljack wind charger and brawn had died and I totally mis quoted stovokor when I said "infact" That was a mistake.
Still, having said that I dont believe you two should have posted anything but a dead, or alive answer. I would have respected the request of you, stovokor, or anyone else on this board and still will if they make any such request.
Say what you will but stovokor was being abrasive purposely with his post that began this on the other thread. I dont respond well to people who are disrespectful to any extent and make sure to treat people the EXACT SAME WAY on the cpu as I would were they standing right in front of me. I dont believe, in this case anyway that sto vor can claim the same and be telling the truth.
Reguardless of all that, I have done what I have to squash the personal issues with this arguement and hold no ill will twards any parties involved.
Have a pleasent evening.

decepta-scott wrote:Actually I figured Youd both weigh in and wanted you to. I didnt expect you to [post what was posted though. I realy didnt think that many people were paying any attention to our arguement on the other thread so I didnt see how most would put two and two together.
I wanted to get others opinions on this matter to see where the board stood. Maybe I should left out the bit about being made aware that people didnt think wheeljack wind charger and brawn had died and I totally mis quoted stovokor when I said "infact" That was a mistake.
Still, having said that I dont believe you two should have posted anything but a dead, or alive answer. I would have respected the request of you, stovokor, or anyone else on this board and still will if they make any such request.
Say what you will but stovokor was being abrasive purposely with his post that began this on the other thread. I dont respond well to people who are disrespectful to any extent and make sure to treat people the EXACT SAME WAY on the cpu as I would were they standing right in front of me. I dont believe, in this case anyway that sto vor can claim the same and be telling the truth.
Reguardless of all that, I have done what I have to squash the personal issues with this arguement and hold no ill will twards any parties involved.
Have a pleasent evening.

lets just forget the unpleasant part of it all.

Done.

decepta-scott wrote:Done.

I think they died, but I don't know for certain.

Sabrblade wrote:I think they died, but I don't know for certain.

Ditto.

decepta-scott wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:I think they died, but I don't know for certain.

Ditto. Also I just noticed something the other night. I have been watching the death/injury scene alot since I started talking about this (my wife thinks I friggen nuts not to mention obsessed with robot death) and brawn goty a bit more than a shot to the arm. It is only visible for a split sec but if you watch you can see that the whole top of his back is blown out. I never liked brawn anyway. He tried to bully percepter and I hate bullys.

They are dead. Brawn had a huge hole blasted in his shoulder and back. If he survived that, then he sure as hell didn't survive the shuttle exploding.

Wheeljack and Windcharger were pulled inside by Arcee. Windcharger had a hole in his chest. Wheeljack was what looked like to be shot up pretty bad. Neither one of them moving might give a good indication they were dead.

JeffX wrote:They are dead. Brawn had a huge hole blasted in his shoulder and back. If he survived that, then he sure as hell didn't survive the shuttle exploding.

Not to start this up again but theres no evidence the shuttle exploded or crashed.

Yes, there was "AN" explosion and a fire ball but they have survived worse.

And the ship may have landed with automatic pilot.

Sure, its sepculation, but so is the idea that the ship crashed and exploded.

And btw, they have also survived a crash from a much higher altitude 4 million years earlier.

Wheeljack and Windcharger were pulled inside by Arcee. Windcharger had a hole in his chest. Wheeljack was what looked like to be shot up pretty bad. Neither one of them moving might give a good indication they were dead.

or so damaged they were off line.

the evidence swings in both directions

I'm sure the shuttle kicked in the Auto-Pilot as it was on fire. I'd say it's far safer to say it exploded after seeing the very large fire then to say auto-pilot kicked in.

They technically didn't survive that crash millions of years ago. Teletran reactivated everyone.

JeffX wrote:I'm sure the shuttle kicked in the Auto-Pilot as it was on fire. I'd say it's far safer to say it exploded after seeing the very large fire then to say auto-pilot kicked in.

it wasnt much of a fire, just the blast looked big.

But thats the nature of a fire ball.

And I dont think either assumption is safer.Its likely the auto pilot was activated byb the Conbs before Hotrod attacked.

They technically didn't survive that crash millions of years ago. Teletran reactivated everyone.

which proves that "technically" they did survive but were rendured off line.

which is far different then death for a tf.

think lof it as unpluging your tv.

Whatever you think there. I'd say it's safer to say it crashed and burned over a mysterious auto-pilot. Can you prove said auto-pilot? If not, then don't bother responding.

Second, if it wasn't for teletran reactivating the Transformers then the series would have been over. So I'd say they were done for without Teletran. But they didn't really survive the crash as you stated. I'd say survived would be getting up and walking around. Not laying dormant for millions of years.

JeffX wrote:Whatever you think there. I'd say it's safer to say it crashed and burned over a mysterious auto-pilot. Can you prove said auto-pilot? If not, then don't bother responding.

Can you prove there wasnt an auto pilot??Dont bother answering, I know you cant.

Besides, we have had auto pilots capable of performing landings since 1914, its not a far stretch of the imagination to think that robots that are far more advanced us would have an auto pilot on their shuttles as standard equipment.

And its no way safer to assume any senerio over the other give the evidence, of lack of, in hand.

Second, if it wasn't for teletran reactivating the Transformers then the series would have been over.]So I'd say they were done for without Teletran.

And??

They still werent dead.

Maybe "good as dead", but not dead.

But they didn't really survive the crash as you stated. I'd say survived would be getting up and walking around. Not laying dormant for millions of years.

Thats a very narrow and erroneous definition for "surviving a crash".

When a group of people are involved in a crash they normally lump those involved into 2 categories.

Those that died and those that survived.

People that end up in comas dont "get up and walking around", but they are still counted as surviving.

The bot's and cons did indeed survive the crash as I stated,call t being off line,in stasis lock or a coma, but they wernt dead as we have come to know TF death.

If they were, Teletyran wouldnt have been able to revive them so easily.

Ya know, There are a lot of would be lawyers on this sight. some of us have made arguements for things that are beyond obscure and done a damn good job of it. Its people like us that got casey anthony off. ...............

I think a lot of this confusion is simply down to lack of continuity. This president was set in early in G1. Episodes like 'City Of Steal' for example, where Prime gets completely dismantled by Hook and doesn't die despite being decapitated.

These discrepancies continued in the movie itself. Magnus's death for example, we clearly see him blown to smithereens, however with the intervention of a couple of Junkions and a quick polish later he's as right as rain again!

I think, from a theoretical point of view, the best way to look at it, is to imagine what the script writers were looking to achieve with individual character development within the overall narrative of the movie.

Thats more or less what I try to do. Im of the opinion that they went all out with the movie, slaughtered all our favs to draw shock and show that this is indeed war and you can die in a war. I believe they needed room for new bots so they could sell new bot toys. I.M.O. All bots that were seen blown up or riddled with holes etc were ment to be viewed as dead. If they realy decided that they needed to bring one back, theyre gonna find a way no matter what anyway.
I get that there is no positive answer though and conceed that anyone who chooses to believe that they lived could make an arguement.
No matter the answer, we are still left with some kick ass war and death/injury scenes. I love how they showed the pain on prowls face and had the orange smoke come out of his mouth as he hit the ground.
Now I find out yrs later that he fades to grey (I have changed my initial opinion on this matter due to evidence brought to my attention by stovokor) which makes his death even cooler.
Still, those emotions are what made it so real to me as a child and are why I was bothered so badly by it for so long. It was a bittersweet movie exp for me.
Then they replaced optimus with rodimus and I REALY lost it.

MightyMagnus78 wrote:I think, from a theoretical point of view, the best way to look at it, is to imagine what the script writers were looking to achieve with individual character development within the overall narrative of the movie.

I've tried to look at it that way, but even more so then the series as a whole, the intention of the writers seem even more inconsistent.

The only thing we can be certain of is that they wanted to "push aside" the old in favor of the new, either by killing off old characters or just leaving their fates in a state of ambiguity.

You pointed out yourself the "implied" death of Ultra Magnus, but look at what they did to Trust,Dirge and Ramjet.

It seems they were really killed, only to return in season 3 with now explanation.

decepta-scott wrote:Thats more or less what I try to do. Im of the opinion that they went all out with the movie, slaughtered all our favs to draw shock and show that this is indeed war and you can die in a war. I believe they needed room for new bots so they could sell new bot toys.

This is pretty much my viewpoint on the matter. I like to think that the producers and script writers were making a film with a poignant commentary on the futility of war and the sacrifices involved... yet in reality, TF:TM is another example of capitalism shafting the working man by conning us out of more money for new toys.

LOL at Inigo montoya you killed my father prepare to die!! Great film. I love the princess bride. The dred pirate roberts/Wesley was a bad ass!!!