The Energon Pub

by **AUTOBOT STITH** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:15 pm

Do transformers grow up like we do?

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:28 pm

Of course they don't. Do metal and/or circuits grow? No they don't. (Regardless of what another certain indivdual who shall remain nameless thinks, although this is the same individual who likes to think Transformers share all the biological traits we do by subbing our parts out for more mechanical sounding parts.) But in any case, a robot is a robot.

The only Transformer who's ever been able to be construed as a 'child' is Wheelie, and that's down to warped programming. Being that Transformers are built from parts, etc, and not born, because, you know, they're not biological creatures, they're obviously not going to grow. Megatron's been that way since he was created, smae with Optimus, same with Grimlock, same with Cliffjumper, any Transformer you can name has been that way since they were built. They can change their armor and parts to make themselves bigger, like with Scattorshot and the Vanguard team in Cybertron, but come on, why would a robot physically change?

Next week: Damolisher solves the OTHER age old question: Does a bear...?"

News Credits: 1 · by **Brakethrough** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:57 pm

Actually, the Matrix has been known to make characters "grow". And there's always the potential for upgrades as time passes. It's completely dependent on the personality of the character though. Ultra Magnus may have started small (maybe even a less fancy name?) but he wouldn't be who he is now without all that bulk. Likewise Kup who's old as the hills, and exhibits that through his ramshackle, yet spry frame.

Oh, hey. 1,000 posts.

by **Susinko** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:28 am

You know, the thing about Transformers is that they are ALIENS. A lot of people compair them to Earth machines, but that isn't right. Who's to say that Transformers don't grow as they get older like organic creatures do? Maybe they have nanites that help convert energon into materials that are added to the body to help them grow from childhood to adulthood? Aliens!!

Food for thought!

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:21 am

We have seen Transformers grow from out side means such as power surges,The Matrix of Leadership or consuming a great power source but growing simply from age we have not seen......however in the 1986 animated movie,at the begining we see a planet called Liton,and on this planet exsist's Transformer like life forms.We also see a few different robotic children who seem to be of different ages in apperance.So I guess anything is possible.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:25 am

Susinko wrote:You know, the thing about Transformers is that they are ALIENS. A lot of people compair them to Earth machines, but that isn't right. Who's to say that Transformers don't grow as they get older like organic creatures do? Maybe they have nanites that help convert energon into materials that are added to the body to help them grow from childhood to adulthood? Aliens!!

Food for thought!

Very true..........we have seen Alpha Trion when he was very young with a little mustash and 4 million years later the mustash has grown into a fu-man-chu type of thing.........so if its living metel like Colossus of the X-Men I can see why its not possible.But it has never be explored on the show or the books.

by **zombiebunny** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:38 am

I'll use science for this matter

Things That makes a living thing Live

Reproduction kind of stuck on this one
Responds to a stimulus Yes
Is organized Probably but I'm not sure
Needs space If it has mass then yes

There are more but those are the only things I can think of from my science class

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:45 am

Raesnoangel94 wrote:I'll use science for this matter

Things That makes a living thing Live

Reproduction kind of stuck on this one
Responds to a stimulus Yes
Is organized Probably but I'm not sure
Needs space If it has mass then yes

There are more but those are the only things I can think of from my science class

dont forget:

consumpsion of fule.........yes
production of waste..........yes
can be effected by bactires..yes

please forgive my spelling.

by **Tangent** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:54 am

I think the 7 things what make life go are these, but there are exceptions to near all these rules...or so I have read in books. Transformers are machines, but also appear to be properly alive, so it's kinda hard to decide if they do grow. Lets use science to help!!! 8-}

Homeostasis: Yep
Organisation: Yep
Metabolism: Yep
Reproduction: Er, factories?
Growth: Not so much
Adaptation: Most definatly
Response to stimuli: Also yep

Tfs tick most the boxes, but not the two most important ones. Aside from eatin something crazy they don’t seem to grow at all, and even then, its not permanent if memory serves.

In closing, Science says no!

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:58 am

Without delving into the argument that Transformers aren't technically robots (even though Hasbro consistently refers to them as such), the fact remains that Transformers are rather unique among living creatures in that they are born physically mature.

In all of the many forms of reproduction accredited to Cybertronians, the new being emerges full size, able to walk, talk, and often already vaguely aware of their racial history. Mental/Emotional growth still occurs of course, as new experiences alter their personalities.

A person could argue that a Transformer physically grows and changes in spurts by upgrading, altering, and replacing components to suit his or her needs over the hundreds to millions of years he or she functions.

In canon, the Lithonians, also metal-based beings, were depicted as having children, so presumably they grow in some fashion more recognizable to us.

by **Deceptiwho?** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:27 am

I dont think we have to get so technical here.. they dont grow, period. They are made of metal and they are non organic thats it.

by **Deadpool.** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:47 am

Deceptiwho? wrote:I dont think we have to get so technical here.. they dont grow, period. They are made of metal and they are non organic thats it.

I agree.
Better not to think so deeply into it.

News Credits: 1 · by **sto_vo_kor_2000** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:51 am

Burn-Burn MkII wrote:
Deceptiwho? wrote:I dont think we have to get so technical here.. they dont grow, period. They are made of metal and they are non organic thats it.

I agree.
Better not to think so deeply into it.

Isint that the reason why there are fansites like this one?So that ideas like this one can be explored :-?

News Credits: 2 · by **Tekka** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:46 am

Using Frenzy from the new movie as my example. If the Transformers can incorporate themselves into other machinery or incorporate other machinery into themselves, it would be considered "growth" in a sense. Uprgrading and growth is probably the same thing to them.

News Credits: 5 · by **Sledge** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:55 am

The Lithonian "children" got about ten seconds screen time. I don't think there was anything in those ten seconds to show they weren't just small Lithonians goofing off.

News Credits: 6 · by **Dr. Caelus** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:19 pm

Sledge wrote:The Lithonian "children" got about ten seconds screen time. I don't think there was anything in those ten seconds to show they weren't just small Lithonians goofing off.

The Lithonian females certainly seemed to handle them as children.

News Credits: 6 · by **City Commander** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:24 pm

Damolisher wrote:Of course they don't. Do metal and/or circuits grow? No they don't. (Regardless of what another certain indivdual who shall remain nameless thinks, although this is the same individual who likes to think Transformers share all the biological traits we do by subbing our parts out for more mechanical sounding parts.) But in any case, a robot is a robot.

The only Transformer who's ever been able to be construed as a 'child' is Wheelie, and that's down to warped programming. Being that Transformers are built from parts, etc, and not born, because, you know, they're not biological creatures, they're obviously not going to grow. Megatron's been that way since he was created, smae with Optimus, same with Grimlock, same with Cliffjumper, any Transformer you can name has been that way since they were built. They can change their armor and parts to make themselves bigger, like with Scattorshot and the Vanguard team in Cybertron, but come on, why would a robot physically change?

Next week: Damolisher solves the OTHER age old question: Does a bear...?"

Just out of interest, what do you have to say on the technorganics?

I think you may have something cool saved up for this topic.

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:16 pm

Wow, it's kind of sad to see that people actually think Transformers grow like biological creatures. I don't see what would lead anyone to that conclusion. I read on the first page someone mentioned something about the matrix making Transformers grow- fair call, but in any case, I don't have an matrix inside me making me grow, and I'm pretty sure neither does anyone else. Transformers grow by armour replacement and upgrades. No newly built Transformer we've ever seen is a 'kid' they're the same size they were when we first met them. The Aerialbots, Megatron, Jetfire, Omega Supreme (In the Marvel Comics) are all the same size (Bigger, in Omega's case) than everyone else already. The only 'kid' sized Transformers are the minibots. Wheelie has a child's mentality, but that's due to what he's witnessed in his life, IMO.

Now then, to answer your question, Master Blaster, technoorganics? I haven't put much of a thought into it, but yeah, technoorganics... I dunno. I mean, it seems pointless for a robot to have an organ system.I mean, we've had technoorganics- the Dwellers from Dwellers in the depths. BUt those would grow similar to us, and share a few traits with us, going by the fact they're technoorganic. Well, either us, or plants.

by **Thanatos Prime** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:34 pm

Transformers will not simply chnage or grow because of their age however, they will use upgrade and other enhancements to change their appearance as well as strength, speed, and overall performance.

However, I have to agree with Damolisher. Tf's don't have children that they have to raise. Some aren't as experienced as others and will learn and mature mentally but physically they won't change unless they are:
A) horribly injured and must be re-bulit (ex. Bumblebee to Goldbug or TM Cheetor to TM2 Cheetor)
B) in a change of times or scenery and require a change in shape or appearance (ex. The beginning of Beast Wars or the beginning of G1)
C) Uptake some form of Deus Ex Machina and become super-powered. (ex. Hot Rod to Rodimus Prime, Megs tunring into Galvatron, TM Primal becoming Optimal Optimus, the oracle in Beast Machines)

News Credits: 3 · by **Damolisher** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:11 pm

Yeah, I mean, its senseless to apply our laws to a robotic race. All in all, people can come up with all the fankwank they want, and can say "In my fanfic this, in my fanfic that", and "Maybe they do this, maybe they do that." but the bottomline is, first and foremost, Transformers are robots. People can say "Nah, nah, nah, they're lifeforms, science says this must be the case with lifeforms, et al, and so it's irrelevant they're robots..." if its irrelevant, why not make a franchise about Transforming humans, then? Science does not write things according to science fiction, and biology laws only apply to things that are organic.

NO-one wrote the criteria for life and thought about giant transforming robos at the time, but I'm sure they'd make an exception since logically, Transformers don't need to meet those criteria, since they're closer to machines than anything you'd find that's organic. So It's really not irrelevant that Transformers are robots. That's the most important thing.

Also, there's no puberty or whatever. The reason Kup's so old and haggard is because his body is breaking down, he's using outdated tech, and so on and so forth. I'm aware of what the MTMTE books and the Ultimate Guide say (I'm familiar with them, because I had to read what each thing says over and over again in the reproduction topic. Ugh.) but then again, those books are out of date, and non-canon anyway. But yeah, they can't grow, bottom line. We've got more than enough evidence to state they don't. Combined with the fact that they're robots. The only way they grow is with a means of upgrading or matrix-related.

by **AUTOBOT STITH** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:19 pm

Oh ok then just wondering.

by **Malicron** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:23 pm

Wow, it’s the “Theories on Transformer Reproduction” thread all over again.
I’m getting out of hear before Tramp shows up.

News Credits: 1 · by **Saber Prime** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:31 pm

Sence the original question was stated like this.

AUTOBOT STITH wrote:Do transformers grow up like we do?

The answer is no.

There are Transformers who have "grown" in size and their personalitys do age like we do but they do not grow up like we do. They need some object of radiation that upgrades their appearance to grow. They do not grow naturally with age.

Wheelie allso is not the only child. He's just the only one we really know the name of. The planet at the begining of Transformers the Movie (1986) showed lots of robot children playing.