The Energon Pub

Sabrblade wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:Beast Machines WAS pretty dark...but it was also slow, and after re-seeing it(I thought it was...THE BOMB when I was littler) to me it goes against the story...how can Cybertron be organic if he's Primus?

Primus isn't that Cybertron. There's more than one Planet Cybertron in the Transformers multiverse. The only Cybertron that Primus has used to assume a physical body with is the Planet Cybertron from the Cybertron/Galaxy Force series. Thus far, he's never used the Beast Era Cybertron to make a body.

Is that "canon" or your personal explanation? I thought that since Primus is a multiverse singularity,he is more-or-less the same in every single universe of the TF multiverse. However what you say seems quite logical.

(Didicos' brain exploded after trying to figure this out.)

Didicos wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:Beast Machines WAS pretty dark...but it was also slow, and after re-seeing it(I thought it was...THE BOMB when I was littler) to me it goes against the story...how can Cybertron be organic if he's Primus?

Primus isn't that Cybertron. There's more than one Planet Cybertron in the Transformers multiverse. The only Cybertron that Primus has used to assume a physical body with is the Planet Cybertron from the Cybertron/Galaxy Force series. Thus far, he's never used the Beast Era Cybertron to make a body.

Is that "canon" or your personal explanation? I thought that since Primus is a multiverse singularity,he is more-or-less the same in every single universe of the TF multiverse. However what you say seems quite logical.

(Didicos' brain exploded after trying to figure this out.)

There is one Primus, but more than one Cybertron, and each has had a different history. There's the Cybertron from the G1 cartoon (which may or may not be the same as the Beast Era Cybertron), the Cybertron from the G1 Marvel Comics, the Cyebrtron from Armada & Energon cartoons (which may or may not be the same as the Cybertron/Galaxy Force Cybertron), the Cybertron from the Dreamwave G1 comics, the Cybertron from the Dreamwave Aramda comics, the cyebrtron from the IDW G1 comics, the Cybertron from the Movies, the Cyebrtron from Animated, the Cybertron from the Shattered Glass universe, the Cybertron from the TransTech fiction, and many many more.

And out of all of those, which one has Primus ever used to assume a physical robot form? The one from the Cybertron/Galaxy force cartoon.

Sabrblade wrote:And out of all of those, which one has Primus ever used to assume a physical robot form? The one from the Cybertron/Galaxy force cartoon.

Cybertron is also Primus' "body" in other series apart from Cybertron/Galaxy Force (eg G1 Marvel comics) although he doesn't always transform into a robot.

The way I get it since Primus is a god-like,ethereal creature whatever happens to Cybertron(any Cybertron or any other physical form he may have adopted) doesn't affect his existence. It doesn't have anything to do with which Cybertron Primus used as a body but it is a matter of Primus' nature.

(I really enjoy this kind of discussions about various aspects of the TF mythos)

Didicos wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:And out of all of those, which one has Primus ever used to assume a physical robot form? The one from the Cybertron/Galaxy force cartoon.

Cybertron is also Primus' "body" in other series apart from Cybertron/Galaxy Force (eg G1 Marvel comics) although he doesn't always transform into a robot.

The way I get it since Primus is a god-like,ethereal creature whatever happens to Cybertron(any Cybertron or any other physical form he may have adopted) doesn't affect his existence. It doesn't have anything to do with which Cybertron Primus used as a body but it is a matter of Primus' nature.

(I really enjoy this kind of discussions about various aspects of the TF mythos)

Yes, the Marvel Comics Cybertron too. Though, the G1 cartoon/Beast Era one seemed to ignore this concept and placed things like Vector Sigma and the Oracle within Cybertron (why, Beast Machines showed to have an actual organic core). Though, some say that Primus = Vector Sigma, which I can somewhat believe and understand.

Though, Cybertron was destroyed in The Headmasters anime, which kinda shows that, even with Cybertron reduced to an uninhabitable hulk floating in space, Primus still lived on (and somehow, other things did too, like Vector Sigma/the Oracle, the Plasma Energy Chamber, the organic core, Iacon, and other underground places ).

Primus is within Cybertron, but Cybertron is not always Primus.

But getting back to the topic at hand...

zenosaurus_x wrote:About Animated....I couldn't take the art style...and since when it came out I thought it was tying to the movie...I was disappointed with the 20 sided allspark and the Optimus not being the leader. So...I quit watching it. Actually I never really watched it.

You're missing out. It's a great series that's almost on par with Beast Wars.

Why would anyone try to tie it in with the movies (I know Takara's trying to tdo this, but it's still doesn't make sense), or any other series for that matter?

20-sided AllSpark? It's a sphere (or mostly a sphere) housed in a hexagoanl prism-shaped container.

Why doesOptimus have to the be the leader? Why does he have to ba a flawless Mr. Perfect? If anything, Animated Optimus seemed the most real and human-like Optimus (aside form Optimus Primal, who also was a lower ranking bot).

Well I have to admit Animated has grown on me(somehow without me even seeing it...)....but what I meant is that I pretty much got "into" TF after the movie, when the series came I thought it tied in, and about Optimus...I don't know...he just makes a good leader...or at least a high rank, in Animated wasn't he like just a worker or something?

Beast Wars hands down.

I just pretend Beast Machines doesn't exist to ruin it's perfection.

After that G1 then Armada.

zenosaurus_x wrote:Well I have to admit Animated has grown on me(somehow without me even seeing it...)....but what I meant is that I pretty much got "into" TF after the movie, when the series came I thought it tied in, and about Optimus...I don't know...he just makes a good leader...or at least a high rank, in Animated wasn't he like just a worker or something?

At first, he was merely the captain of a maintenance crew because he took full responsibility for what happened on that alien planet with him, Sentinel, and Elita-1, and, as a result, got kicked out of the Autobot Academy (the punishment may not have been so severe had Sentinel not let Optimus take the full blame alone, but with Sentinel being a jerk, he just let Optimus take the fall himself).

However, with the discovery of the AllSpark, the sudden attack by Megatron, and the unanticipated crash onto Earth, Optimus was forced into a role he was never expecting to be forced into ever again: a soldier, a leader, a hero.

The point of his low rank near the series's beginning was to show this Optimus's rise to glory. Besides, even if Ultra Magnus was in charge, he didn't do much anyway.

Cyberstrike wrote:

Nathimus Prime wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:My top 3 are:



Beast Wars, Animated and Bay's movies don't look like Transformers that I grew up with. So what's your point?

[/i] series.

My point is that in the Bay movies and beast wars 2 they actually look mechanical

beast machines robot modes look like animals.

Nathimus Prime wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:

Nathimus Prime wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:My top 3 are:



Beast Wars, Animated and Bay's movies don't look like Transformers that I grew up with. So what's your point?

[/i] series.

My point is that in the Bay movies and beast wars 2 they actually look mechanical

beast machines robot modes look like animals.

They looked liked robots to me.

G1. why? Soundwave superior, everyyone else inferior. Except maybe starcream, swindle, and the terrorcons.

but mainly g1 quints. the quints are effin awesome.

Wow, I never thought this thread would get so big! Thanks for all the posts guys, and keep 'em coming, because I always like to hear what other people think!

g1 beast wars and transformers energon, fave character would be optimus prime.

Name_Violation wrote:G1. why? Soundwave superior, everyyone else inferior. Except maybe starcream, swindle, and the terrorcons.

but mainly g1 quints. the quints are effin awesome.

Haha, right you are, man.

Beast Machines would have to be my favourite by far, Its dark story telling and its philosophical issues really helped the series a great deal. I will never understand why it was so shunned upon, I'll admit that some of the toys were rubbish but the show was just perfection in my opinion.

But I will never forgive what they did to Rhinox.

Skullgrin140 wrote:Beast Machines would have to be my favourite by far, Its dark story telling and its philosophical issues really helped the series a great deal. I will never understand why it was so shunned upon, I'll admit that some of the toys were rubbish but the show was just perfection in my opinion.

But I will never forgive what they did to Rhinox.

I remember a thread at another board and someone posted that his theory on why Beast Machines gets so much hate was because subconsciously the fans knew (or once we told by the end of the second season) that this was the pretty much the end of the G1 era, and that once it was over that G1 was over as well. As long Beast Machines and any follow up to it there was always the faint hope that the G1 could have be brought back in one form or another. That is probably one of the reasons for the fascination with the ill-fated TransTech line.

My favorite Transformers series is...Transformers (the original 1984-1987 series, that is)!

1: Beast Wars: In every way this is the best in my opinion. It wakes nostalgia, the characters are moving and deep. The series is serious enough that you care but silly enough to make you laugh throug the whole for the right reasons instead of just making fun of mistakes and dubbing(I'm looking at you Armada) The CGI may be dated but considering the time frame it isnt bad either. I bought the whole series on DVD and I like it now more than I did growing up because I can understand much more of it. I could write this for an hour...heh

2: G1 for all the obvious reasons. Started everything. Nostalgia up the ass and it was cheesy as all hell but it was the 80's when tv wasnt good unlesss it was cheesebakll.

3: Beast Machines: The only series to take itself seriously throughout. I didnt like it as a kid much. Rewatched it recently and got way more out of it. I like it as the ending to the G1 canon. Brought a lot of things together in amazing fashion even if it was plagued by budget issues and being to different.


Frankly I wouldnt call any of the other shows even good. I watched them because they were transformers but the quality and emotion just isnt there in the animes. And animated is like a really long joke, Cant even get through it.

Predaprince wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:Some people say it sux ass and others say its the best, and the animation may look "kiddy" at first glace, but when you get into it, its the most serious and darkest TF series out there (it may be tied with Beast Wars in terms of that though).

Sorry, but Beast Machines was far more darker and serious than Animated. Not that Animated wasn't dark and serious at times, granted it was. But Beast Machines was dark and serious almost all the time.

whawhawha what!? I always thought Beast machines was some campy, low rate-ass, childish show about Cybertron turning organic! No joke, thats honestly what I thought it was. I may have to watch it now, and stop calling it the "actual thing that killed the franchise"!

Yeah, how can you judge a show you have never watched. I watched BM and have mixed feelings on it, but I certainly would say it isn't a bad TF show and it is certainly not the worse.

Truth. In all honesty, everyone who gets upset that someone doesn't love the movies at least has to recognize that the movie dislikers for the most part have SEEN the movies. Calling something terrible but not even having seen it is dumb.
Nothing so far beats Beast Machines for darkness.

My favorites are G1 and Beast Machines, incidentally. G1 was not only what I grew up with, and not only started the ball rolling towards live action movies, but it has the best characters, just being my opinion. Beast Wars had some great characters too, so maybe BW wins the character debate. Still, I'm with G1 and Beast Machines.

G1 for me all the way. I used to sprint home from school to make sure I didnt miss a second of it. It's a fond memory of my younger days.

I have two, actually...

G1 (first 2 seasons)....Nostalgia purposes.

Beast Wars (all 3 seasons).....Best written story-arcs, best voice acting, best graphics (it was the early-to-mid 90's! It was tops back then!), and best characterizations....a show for both new and old fans alike!

Even though G1 was made in the 80s and had tons of animation errors there's still a reason why it's worshipped to this day, the characters were memorable and became iconic.
Sure the plots were fairly 80s (Megatron is gonna fire his new ultimate weapon) but it was still so ridiculously entertaining.

2) Beast Wars- A fun, very well written series with lots of memorable dialogue, and loaded with great characters, concepts, humor, and it had plenty of twists, turns, and surprises. The CGI, in the first season especially, looks dated though.

^ That. Favorite character was Rhinox. The guy could kick everybody's a$$, but decided to just sit back and smell the flowers.

I'd say G1 and theres alot about G1 i love too, but if i sat down and watched a series from start to end, i think i'd enjoy BW more.

My favorite would have to be the beast era. It was the first thing i saw watching ytv at 5 in the morning but i remember it fondly. The characters were well thought out and the story was great. I never got many figures but my collection is growing. Armada and rid were ok but i had to rewatch rid to remember everyone but prime, magnus, megs and sky byte. Everyone else just kinda faded out of memory. Armada i liked for the mini cons, starscream and hotshot. everyone else was meh to me and really didn't matter. BUT Animated is a very close second even though i thought it would suck at first

Skullgrin140 wrote:Beast Machines would have to be my favourite by far, Its dark story telling and its philosophical issues really helped the series a great deal. I will never understand why it was so shunned upon, I'll admit that some of the toys were rubbish but the show was just perfection in my opinion.

But I will never forgive what they did to Rhinox.

As a fan and avid Beast MAchines supporter, I agree. The series gets way more trashing than it should, but that's just my opinion. The toys were crappy, and things got a little too organicy at the end. Like, Rattrap and Botanica falling in love? That was cute in BW because of Silverbolt, like his character just seemed better suited to something like that. But in BM it was just dumb. I thought the Airrazor/Tigatron romance was lame in BW also, so for me it's just something about Silverbolt as a character that made it tolerable to me, for whatever that may be worth.
Botanica and Nightscream were bad, but Nightscream wouldn't have been such a problem if he'd just been quiet from time to time. Same thing with Rattrap for me, if he'd have shut up and stopped with the incesant and increasingly failure-packed one liners he would have been alright.

I think the Rhinox/Tankor deal was just what the series should have done, really turn things upside down. MEgatron was characterized terrifically, and Primal was as well. But it was the story of it all that I really love.

It was smart. Beast Wars was really witty and made abuncha nods to the old school, but BM just had some smarts that none of the other series' have had.

I'm going to go with Masterforce. I liked that they kept the cast small and focused on developing the characters they had. As well I liked the sense of danger that it portrayed in that both factions were around equal in strength.

Also the 2nd half of Victory as Deszaras gets more involved in the action.

Then Beast Wars, and Galaxy Force (something about it drew me in).