The Energon Pub

Disregard this post. Thanks Convotron for clarifying that.

Rastamus Prime wrote:Whoa, take it back a second. Are you implying that I feel this series needs my hate and scorn, and I'm kicking it while it's down? You sound like you were ranting on about Kiss Players (I had no idea they were that f.ucked up) more than my little testimony on Animated. This entire time you're condescending to me about ranting, and here you are calling out the Kiss Play thingies. See, part of this world is voicing your opinion on what you like and don't like. I don know where people come off on this idea that if you don't like something say nothing. The interchanging of ideas is how Globalization works, the REAL strange people are people who don't voice their opinions, now this is not a great example of that, we're arguing about a TV show for christ sakes. But on actual important matters in society, we need input and output to thrive. Don't tell me to find something else to do.

I think HK was commenting more on the KP line, which is my fault for bringing it into this discussion, than on anyone's feelings on TFA. Honestly, I think HK's comments are more directed at me for my previously stated distaste of KP. I also admit that I'm judging something without fully understanding it but that's a topic for another discussion so...let's focus on TFA.

Convotron wrote:

Rastamus Prime wrote:Whoa, take it back a second. Are you implying that I feel this series needs my hate and scorn, and I'm kicking it while it's down? You sound like you were ranting on about Kiss Players (I had no idea they were that f.ucked up) more than my little testimony on Animated. This entire time you're condescending to me about ranting, and here you are calling out the Kiss Play thingies. See, part of this world is voicing your opinion on what you like and don't like. I don know where people come off on this idea that if you don't like something say nothing. The interchanging of ideas is how Globalization works, the REAL strange people are people who don't voice their opinions, now this is not a great example of that, we're arguing about a TV show for christ sakes. But on actual important matters in society, we need input and output to thrive. Don't tell me to find something else to do.

I think HK was commenting more on the KP line, which is my fault for bringing it into this discussion, than on anyone's feelings on TFA. Honestly, I think HK's comments are more directed at me for my previously stated distaste of KP. I also admit that I'm judging something without fully understanding it but that's a topic for another discussion so...let's focus on TFA.

Ok thanks for resolving that, it sounds like another good argument. I'll make a thread about this one.

I seriously don't understand the hate for TFA. I really don't. Admittedly, when I had a chance to see the promotional art, I was completely turned off and disgusted by the idea, initially.

I watched the Transform And Roll Out! after Christmas special on CN, purely out of boredom and morbid curiosity.

...it sold me lock, stock, and barrel on TFA.

Then I watched more of the series, and found more and more to like about it.

Then the toys were released for BotCon that year, and I had Waves 1 and 2 shipped to me, and I got it. I finally got it. It was awesome, it was wonderful.

TransFormers Animated was something great, and should be recognized as such. Beast Wars *was* the best TF series, ever. That is, until TFA came along. The writing was smart, it was funny, it was handled with care and had many a fanwank in tow.

The toys had the daunting task of matching the show models and did so with incredible detail. And they're a heck of a lot of fun. Some are gimmicky, sure, but they're a lot of fun.

ROTF is clogging pegs and shelves right now, but I see Animated figures still selling, slowly but surely.

And now with the final toy waves hitting this November, we'll see Rodimus, Arcee (in a car form, for the first time EVER.), Ratbat, etc.

I realize that Animated isn't for every one, but I'd imagine it would sit better with you folks, than ROTF did.

Nothing's perfect, nor will it ever be, but look at it from a different perspective for a moment... we still have TFs and we've yet to see what the future holds. Instead of being negative all the time, how about we keep an open mind, a positive outlook, and just be patient?

I love the ROTF figures. I loooooove the Animated figures. I wasn't too keen on some of the Classics/Universe offerings, but even I found something to like about them.

Seriously, if TFs aren't getting it for you anymore, if they're making you miserable, stop collecting and supporting them. No one's holding a gun to your head, no one's going out of their way to make you miserable. Except you.

Cling to G1 with all your might, if you must, we'll be here, in the here and now, enjoying past present and future. And there'll be more for us.

Autobot032 wrote:I love the ROTF figures. I loooooove the Animated figures. I wasn't too keen on some of the Classics/Universe offerings, but even I found something to like about them.

Seriously, if TFs aren't getting it for you anymore, if they're making you miserable, stop collecting and supporting them. No one's holding a gun to your head, no one's going out of their way to make you miserable. Except you.

Cling to G1 with all your might, if you must, we'll be here, in the here and now, enjoying past present and future. And there'll be more for us.

Like you, I appreciate Transformers from different lines and can find aspects to appreciate in everything I've come across so far.

I'm a big G1 fan but it's funny to watch the G1 shows again and realize how bad they really are. The fog of childhood nostalgia makes everything perfect. I think TFA captured the ideal of what G1 was to me as a kid, which was an entertaining show about alien transforming robots fighting on Earth.

The surprisingly good writing on TFA is the main reason I miss the series but it also means that the bar is raised and so the next series has something to surpass in greatness.

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously don't understand the hate for TFA. I really don't. Admittedly, when I had a chance to see the promotional art, I was completely turned off and disgusted by the idea, initially.

I watched the Transform And Roll Out! after Christmas special on CN, purely out of boredom and morbid curiosity.

...it sold me lock, stock, and barrel on TFA.

Then I watched more of the series, and found more and more to like about it.

Since I posted this thread, I watched a few episodes more. Gradually it's started to grow on me. I will probably never come to grips with with the art but the show has been getting better as I've watched it. I'm sorry for coming down hard on the show, at the time I had only seen 3 episodes. One of which involved some wierd rendition of the seekers. Although the toys have improved greatly and seem virtually kibble free, the art work doesn't nor will it ever compell me to pick one up.

Autobot032 wrote:I seriously don't understand the hate for TFA. I really don't. Admittedly, when I had a chance to see the promotional art, I was completely turned off and disgusted by the idea, initially.

I watched the Transform And Roll Out! after Christmas special on CN, purely out of boredom and morbid curiosity.

...it sold me lock, stock, and barrel on TFA.

Then I watched more of the series, and found more and more to like about it.

Then the toys were released for BotCon that year, and I had Waves 1 and 2 shipped to me, and I got it. I finally got it. It was awesome, it was wonderful.

TransFormers Animated was something great, and should be recognized as such. Beast Wars *was* the best TF series, ever. That is, until TFA came along. The writing was smart, it was funny, it was handled with care and had many a fanwank in tow.

The toys had the daunting task of matching the show models and did so with incredible detail. And they're a heck of a lot of fun. Some are gimmicky, sure, but they're a lot of fun.

ROTF is clogging pegs and shelves right now, but I see Animated figures still selling, slowly but surely.

And now with the final toy waves hitting this November, we'll see Rodimus, Arcee (in a car form, for the first time EVER.), Ratbat, etc.

I realize that Animated isn't for every one, but I'd imagine it would sit better with you folks, than ROTF did.

Nothing's perfect, nor will it ever be, but look at it from a different perspective for a moment... we still have TFs and we've yet to see what the future holds. Instead of being negative all the time, how about we keep an open mind, a positive outlook, and just be patient?

I love the ROTF figures. I loooooove the Animated figures. I wasn't too keen on some of the Classics/Universe offerings, but even I found something to like about them.

Seriously, if TFs aren't getting it for you anymore, if they're making you miserable, stop collecting and supporting them. No one's holding a gun to your head, no one's going out of their way to make you miserable. Except you.

Cling to G1 with all your might, if you must, we'll be here, in the here and now, enjoying past present and future. And there'll be more for us.

I don't hate Animated, but I don't like it, and don't really have to. I also have a bunch'a figures from a bunch'a lines, and I gave Animated a chance, and I bought a bunch'a Animated figures, and I bought the DVDs and I watched them a bunch'a times, and I still never found anything to really like about it.
I said earlier in my first post for this thread, it all basically boils down to what you like, and what you don't like. We don't all have to like everything, and we don't really have to like anything if that suits us. We've got people 'round Seibertron that complain about EVERYTHING, making you wonder why they'd even bother being on a Transformers board if they can't find anything about Transformers to like in the first place.

I prefer G1. Sorry. That doesn't make me right or wrong in the court of opinion. I learned my lesson about that on Seibertron when the first movie came out. People whod been on here for years would say they disliked something about the movie or the movie toys and the people who signed up this morning would raise hell about their opinions not being respected. And geez, if you remember the Botcon 07 arguements..... Anyhow, when I got a warning for SAYING that I thought the Camaro Bumblebee figure was junk I learned that when something is new, you keep your mouth shut if you differ from the 'general' or loudest given opinion until the newness wears off, and then you can say you don't like it. Fortunately, that didn't really seem to happen with Animated, it seems like a whole lot of pro/anti-Animated sentiment sort of passed in the night and wasn't warcries to the opposing sides of the issue.
Just becuase I like G1, doesn't mean I'm like, resistant to change or anything, and just 'cause someone likes Animated doesn't make them cutting edge or in-the-now or any of that. And, even if it did mean that, maybe to play the devils' advocate, so what? Gee-whunners are the ones who act like you're not a real fan becuase you don't piss G1 dialogue every morning, I don't really think anyone here in this discussion was doing that....if someone did, I missed it, so, sorry. I like G1 best, so, sorry. If I want to 'cling' to it, I will. I think the only series I missed was RID, but I've seen all the others, minus the Japanese stuff, and if I happen to think that the one I saw at 6 years old is the best, then, sorry, but so what? That by itself isn't like, a condemnation of Animated or BW or anything. It's just what I like. Rastamus didn't care for Animated, but he really wasn't like, calling for heads or anything because some people do/did.

I mean, in principle I'm with you Autobot032, if you don't like Classics/Universe, good, that means more for me. Those, for my money, are the best figures out there. If that means I'm clinging to the dead horse of G1 for my very life, then that's fine. I'd rather like to think that it means that I'm liking what I happen to like, same as you are doing.

I don't cling to G1. It's sitting here comfortably right beside me. No matter the faults of G1, I still love it. It was my earliest Transformers exposure. I watched a few episodes of season 1 earlier tonight during supper and it was great. Animation mistakes, incorrect voicing, plot holes, and all. Is G1 better than any other piece of Transformers? In my opinion, nope. I don't think of things as better or worse, rather I look at things as what I like more or less. I love TFA too but I don't think it's better than anything else, I just like it better than some other things. I'm glad I can like most of Transformers but at the same time, it's hard on my wallet! There are just so many cool things to have...

Dagon wrote:And geez, if you remember the Botcon 07 arguements.....

In a way, I'm kind of glad I missed the craziness in the worldwide Transformers fan community when the first movie was in development and production. I can imagine some of the heated discussions that must have been going on at the time.

I never saw a full episode but did see bits and parts here and there; including a five minute clip off of the 2007 movie video game. I must say that what little I saw, I didn't care for. The designs, while unique on some, just didn't sit right with me for the most part.

Not to mention I didn't like the voice acting. Megatron didn't sound powerful enough and Optimus sounded like some late teen, early 20s individual. Not the sound of a leader. All of the other TF shows had pretty good voice acting, I thought. But this didn't seem to have it. I'm not sad or happy that it's gone, just indifferent for the simple fact that I didn't care for it anyways.

The Fallen Prime wrote:I never saw a full episode but did see bits and parts here and there; including a five minute clip off of the 2007 movie video game. I must say that what little I saw, I didn't care for. The designs, while unique on some, just didn't sit right with me for the most part.

Not to mention I didn't like the voice acting. Megatron didn't sound powerful enough and Optimus sounded like some late teen, early 20s individual. Not the sound of a leader. All of the other TF shows had pretty good voice acting, I thought. But this didn't seem to have it. I'm not sad or happy that it's gone, just indifferent for the simple fact that I didn't care for it anyways.

And if you watch more, you'll notice he isn't even the leader. He's practically a janitor for the Autobots.

Autobot032 wrote:Seriously, if TFs aren't getting it for you anymore, if they're making you miserable, stop collecting and supporting them. No one's holding a gun to your head, no one's going out of their way to make you miserable. Except you.

Cling to G1 with all your might, if you must, we'll be here, in the here and now, enjoying past present and future. And there'll be more for us.

In no way, shape or form am I miserable collecting TFs. As of now it's my favorite hobby. It's one series I was talking about for god sakes, I never said anything about hating TFs. You take a semi-serious semi-humorous thread and you take it so seriously. Just relax....

But for the record, here's a list of series I've liked other than G1:

RiD
Armada
Beast Wars, ok, so that's about it. I'd say G2 but it was never a show. I like the toyline though.

G1 really defined the series, it was the pinnacle of Transfomers and even in the broad view of TV shows, has to be one of the top ten most memorable 80s TV shows. So you can see why I like this show so much. The animation was good, except for character mishaps that happened more frequently then I'd like, I think the animation was great. I liked the plot to the series, it had a mian one but would also branch off into other adventures and what not which was cool. It had some great scenes, and real life references (for instance Michael Jackson is refered to in one episode, and in the beginning of Starscream's Brigade , they show a clip of the Battle of Guatacanal. (Albeit both the allies and the Japs are discharging lazers) But in all fairness there was a huge array of characters, lots of TF action and it spanned 4 seasons, it's safe to say this is the best damn series of TFs. It has spawned other series from it (Headmasters, Super-God Masterforce, Zone and Victory) It's had a cinematic movie based on it. What has Animated done? 3 seasons, a couple of toys and a FAT CANCELLATION from C/N itself. I mean this show got replaced by friggin PokEmon, that's embarassing!

ill admit i hated the show at first but like some here it grew on me once the story sunk in you know? and if you think in some ways it tried to encompass all we like and dislike about the other series.

for example:

Bad points:

The Headmaster: many are mentioning how annoying he was and how he spoke was just idiotic. well if you think on it that reflects the malaysian english dub of the headmasters series. some hate it and some laugh at how stupid it was. well in a sense hes like that.

Patrick and spongebob: Yes the voice actors of patrick and spongebob voicing characters in the show. i mean i guess Starscream, the clones, and bulkhead were portrayed well, but i mean... imagining them together in a scene talking i cant stand. not trying to piss off the fans of these characters or spongebob fans, but a scene in which bulkhead and starscream communicate is so hard to take seriously no matter how important it may be to the storyline, the 2 shouldnt mix. And at the same time i find it disturbing that of the few people that the headmaster was able to control, main storypoint ones had to be spongebob and patrick, er i mean bulkhead ansd starscream. god it erks me. just put buckets on their head and let plankton control em.

Neutral points:
Megatron and reverse engineering: the fining of a frozen megatron body the hand and the head, the ressurection thing, the reverse engineering, if im not mistaken that was used in the michael bay movie as well. im not saying its a bad concept or a good one, but it was done so recently, with the michael bay movie, it seems like not a renewal but like saying eh what eklse you got type thing.

The Allspark:
My personal opinion it was a lil too much like the matrix of leadership and like they fused michael bays all spark with the matrix.

Good Points:
BlackAracnia and Waspinator: Of course beastwars, and the development of waspinator was awesome. basically driven to be as nuts as beast wars waspinator then experimented on to become a freakish techno- organic, similar to when waspinator was put through the transmetals plot device. also the omage to the maximals after the two were blasted into the jungle and saw the animals the maximals turn into.

The Constructicons: while you cant combine em they have similar history to theg1. the originals were friends with omega supreme at one point before they were taken by megatron, , and the two original tfa constructicons were friends with bulkhead before beingswayed to be decepticons. dirt bos is just a controlling twerp though.

so many characters: you get into the aspects of beast machines and beast wars and other eras by season 3. strika from beast machines, and several others in this is why i hate machines and transwarped.

Rock Lords: On the subject of transwarped you have inclusion of the rocklords from gobots. GOBOTS for petes sake. thats really dipping into the barrel there.

Pretenders: Technically id consider sari as either a pretender or a beast wars type character, seieing she is part cybertonian and her scan is that of an organic, but hidden well, its a toss up here, but most pretenders ive seen are human so yeah... my opinion there

Protoforms: Discussed in many eras of tf, we see them and lso see one scan an organic (sari) reminding me of tigatrons scan in beastwars.

original voice actors: yes some original voice actors from g1 voiced in this. example? Blurr, a couple others.

and finally
Wreck-Gar:
Holy cow wreck gar!!!!! one of the most awesome and my fave character:(personal opinion) from g1, with his tv talk and referances to television!. The animated captures this junkion perfectly. Junkions have worked for autobots and decepticons, mainly autobots though, but also the factor of weird als dare to be stupid in the g1 movie. since they couldnt get the g1 voice actor they go for weird al, whos references to himself music and other things looneyish that he does is reminicent of wreckgar g1. and what better transformation than a garbage truck?


Theres probably many other lil thins im not mentioning, but the fact they could take all those generations and characters, keep true tosome, adjust others,a and make everything work so well in a limited 3 season story line that makes sense, i mean cmon, thats some good writing. youd have to be to be able to include all of those to make a decent storyline.

Like they say dont judge a book by its cover or a cartoon by its animation, cause the story in its entirety is the true meat of the dish you know? its right for some, for others not so much. But thats transformers in general. i mean look

g1: they never truly explained a lot of stuff and their were tons of continuity errors, and they turned grimlocks personality tfrom brutish rebel with honor to the stooge of the group. Biggest let down in my opinion. if it was like a replacement or a different grimlock fine, but never a true explanation for the severe personality change.

Headmasters: rtm1 dub, nuff said.

Masterforce: rtm1dub, and im reminded of gundum and robotech.

beastwars: many complaints from everyone, still after a while considered good

Beast machines: admitedly ive heard more complaints about issues in this than the rtm1 headmasters from people i know, ut whatever i like all tf series

the points are they all have their own faults and with some they arent truly apreciated until after the series has run its course and people look back on it. been thesame for tv, movies, music, everything for years.

Sorry about the super long rant its my first post on here.

I get that alot of this was based on Opinion but this one thing here is wrong.

Rastamus Prime wrote:Skywarp is conceited and narcassistic

You just described Thundercracker not Skywarp. Skywarp was a coward.

Now as for the rest of what you said. I agree with EVERYTHING you said about character designs and animation however when it comes to plot...

You really think Armada has a decent plot? Animated has it's fair share of plot holes, I will admit that and the ending seemed verry rushed but even still Animated was one of the better wrighten series.

Armada while I'll agree that the Animation was 1000 times better than most other series. The plot was not the least bit decent. I couldn't even follow what the hell was going on in that freaking series. It started out with a verry simple plot that people make fun of for being like Poke'mon and then they abandon that verry simple plot for an impossible to follow plot following Unicron who is a planet sized moon and has a minion who talks to him, doesn't know what side he's on, I think he actully saved the kids from being killed by his master in one episode, and yet revials himself to actully BE unicron while INSIDE of Unicron.

Then there's Thrust who starts out as a super awsome character who I loved for all of 1 episode untill in the verry next episode for no reason what so ever he turns into a totally insaine dumb ass. Sky-Byte was the same type of character as Thrust but when Sky-Byte went insaine and stupid in RID there was actully a reason behind it. He was only like that AFTER an insident where he was frozen in space. Granted it was never really exsplained how he got back to Earth after that and it was kind of a dumb reason to make the character retarded but at least there was some kind reason behind it. Thrust just randomly happened for no reason at all.

Then there's Tidal Wave who was described as a great warrior and leader who was arriving from a battle on another planet however right after hearing this description Tidal Wave proves himself to be the exact oppisite. He's big and powerfull for sure but in no sence is he a great leader. The guy is an idiot. That and that fact that even though Megatron and Tidal Wave have never met before Tidal Wave is some how able to combine with Megatron and worships the ground he walks on.

Wheeljack, just as bad as any of the others. He's originally introduced in "Past" which part 1 was a horribly wrighten episode and part 2 rather than being a continuation of it looked like a rewright of the same plot but better. It focused on Hot Shot and Wheeljack and left out Sideswipe and Blurr which was not a verry interesting story to begin with. Past Part 2 was the best episode and actully the only episode of Armada that I actully liked and wouldn't mind seeing again. You don't even need to watch Part 1 to understand the plot of Part 2 because all the Wheeljack stuff from part 1 is just repeated in Part 2 but better which is why I said it looks like a rewright rather than a continuation. Wheeljack's character again is one I liked for all of 1 episode then in the verry next episode they screw him up so he doesn't make any sence. Wheeljack started out hateing Hot Shot for leaveing him to die and for the rest of the series there no conflict what so ever between thoughs two characters. Wheeljack was still a Decepticon, he still CLAIMED to hate Hot Shot but there was no hatered in his voice anymore. He was all buddy buddy with Hot Shot for the rest of the series and there were times when he actully HELPED Hot Shot.

Oh and the leaders of the groups were just as horribly wrighten. Optimus Prime claims to care about the Mini-cons and says he won't force them to be weapons like the Decepticons yet there's really no difference in how the Autobots and Decepticons treat their Mini-cons and Optimus doesn't even know his Mini-con's name. Hell Optimus doesn't seem to know anyone's name. I've never seen a single episode of Armada where a character wasn't called by the wrong name and 90% of the time it was Optimus doing all the wrong names. Not to mention in the middle of the last episode he just randomly changes to his Powerlink colors along with Jetfire for no reason at all.

Megatron later Galvatron never got any respect unlike other Megatrons who have changed their names to Galvatron this version when he changed his name he was the ONLY character in the series calling himself Galvatron, everyone else still refered to him as Megatron. Starscream got more respect in the series. And Megatron died as a hero in Armada. His death ment the end of Unicron and the end of the war between Autobots and Decepticons. Both he and Optimus knew that and yet Optimus tried to save him and Megatron killed himself in order to save everyone else. What the hell? I don't know why more people aren't pissed about this. Megatron, the leader of the Decepticons, the guy who is supose to be the EVIL BAD GUY, dies as a HERO. I've heard in ROTF Megatron bows down and starts worshiping the Fallen. I think turning Megatron into a hero is 10 times worse than that. Megatron working for another Decepticon has been done before, G1 Megatron/Galvatron and Unicron, yeah someone more powerfull comes along, that's going to happen till he can regain his position as leader. But how in the hell is Megatron dieing as a hero more acceptible than something that has happened before in G1.

I think Armada is set in the Shattered Glass universe because the Autobots seem to be the bad guys and the Decepticons seem to be the heroes in the series. Actully worse yet each and every episode seems to be set in an entirely different universe sence I was just as confused watching the series in order from start to finish on YouTube as I was when I missed episodes when it first aired.

Starscream switching sides to join the Autobots. Makes just as much sence when you know the reason as it does when you just randomly turn it on and go "He's an Autobot now? How did that happen?"

Other series have plot holes. Armada doesn't have any Plot Holes, Armada IS a Plot Hole.

It's already know that I was worried about TFA before it came out, and I was sold pretty quick, the fact it had couple people on the Cartoon Network side that truly cared about the Transformers as fans and not just from the company perspective helped it and pushed the positives way further than the negatives that held the series back.

But I do need to mention Animated Prime. He is not a Janitor and until you have fully sat thru the series and know what happened to him pre-series you just don't get the full grasp of the character or the other elements that pushed him to be where he is.

Yes he sounds young, because he is younger than the traditional Prime we are used to seeing. He was a fine cadet and had circumstances been different he would be the one standing with Magnus at the top of the Elite Guard. Yes, he is leading a maintenance crew, but look at a couple simple things.

When Magnus removed Optimus from the Elite Guard for taking responsibility for his own actions:

1) He retained Prime's rank, and thus he does hold the same rank at Sentinel for the majority of the series.
2) He still recognized his leadership potential, and placed him in charge of his crew.
3) He gave him charge of Omega Supreme.

Yes, Magnus comes off at the beginning as having disdain for Optimus, it is clear that as he gave him rank and purpose, and then handed him one of the strongest weapons the Autobots had available (regardless of the current operating condition) that Optimus was never a janitor or simple technician. We may never know Magnus' motivation for placing Prime where he was but it's clear that he was destined for a greater purpose and Ultra Magnus gave him the tools he needed to grow into the leader that the Autobots required when they needed him.

Rial Vestro wrote:Armada while I'll agree that the Animation was 1000 times better than most other series. The plot was not the least bit decent. I couldn't even follow what the hell was going on in that freaking series. It started out with a verry simple plot that people make fun of for being like Poke'mon and then they abandon that verry simple plot for an impossible to follow plot following Unicron who is a planet sized moon and has a minion who talks to him, doesn't know what side he's on, I think he actully saved the kids from being killed by his master in one episode, and yet revials himself to actully BE unicron while INSIDE of Unicron.

Then there's Thrust who starts out as a super awsome character who I loved for all of 1 episode untill in the verry next episode for no reason what so ever he turns into a totally insaine dumb ass. Sky-Byte was the same type of character as Thrust but when Sky-Byte went insaine and stupid in RID there was actully a reason behind it. He was only like that AFTER an insident where he was frozen in space. Granted it was never really exsplained how he got back to Earth after that and it was kind of a dumb reason to make the character retarded but at least there was some kind reason behind it. Thrust just randomly happened for no reason at all.

Then there's Tidal Wave who was described as a great warrior and leader who was arriving from a battle on another planet however right after hearing this description Tidal Wave proves himself to be the exact oppisite. He's big and powerfull for sure but in no sence is he a great leader. The guy is an idiot. That and that fact that even though Megatron and Tidal Wave have never met before Tidal Wave is some how able to combine with Megatron and worships the ground he walks on.

Wheeljack, just as bad as any of the others. He's originally introduced in "Past" which part 1 was a horribly wrighten episode and part 2 rather than being a continuation of it looked like a rewright of the same plot but better. It focused on Hot Shot and Wheeljack and left out Sideswipe and Blurr which was not a verry interesting story to begin with. Past Part 2 was the best episode and actully the only episode of Armada that I actully liked and wouldn't mind seeing again. You don't even need to watch Part 1 to understand the plot of Part 2 because all the Wheeljack stuff from part 1 is just repeated in Part 2 but better which is why I said it looks like a rewright rather than a continuation. Wheeljack's character again is one I liked for all of 1 episode then in the verry next episode they screw him up so he doesn't make any sence. Wheeljack started out hateing Hot Shot for leaveing him to die and for the rest of the series there no conflict what so ever between thoughs two characters. Wheeljack was still a Decepticon, he still CLAIMED to hate Hot Shot but there was no hatered in his voice anymore. He was all buddy buddy with Hot Shot for the rest of the series and there were times when he actully HELPED Hot Shot.

Oh and the leaders of the groups were just as horribly wrighten. Optimus Prime claims to care about the Mini-cons and says he won't force them to be weapons like the Decepticons yet there's really no difference in how the Autobots and Decepticons treat their Mini-cons and Optimus doesn't even know his Mini-con's name. Hell Optimus doesn't seem to know anyone's name. I've never seen a single episode of Armada where a character wasn't called by the wrong name and 90% of the time it was Optimus doing all the wrong names. Not to mention in the middle of the last episode he just randomly changes to his Powerlink colors along with Jetfire for no reason at all.

Megatron later Galvatron never got any respect unlike other Megatrons who have changed their names to Galvatron this version when he changed his name he was the ONLY character in the series calling himself Galvatron, everyone else still refered to him as Megatron. Starscream got more respect in the series. And Megatron died as a hero in Armada. His death ment the end of Unicron and the end of the war between Autobots and Decepticons. Both he and Optimus knew that and yet Optimus tried to save him and Megatron killed himself in order to save everyone else. What the hell? I don't know why more people aren't pissed about this. Megatron, the leader of the Decepticons, the guy who is supose to be the EVIL BAD GUY, dies as a HERO. I've heard in ROTF Megatron bows down and starts worshiping the Fallen. I think turning Megatron into a hero is 10 times worse than that. Megatron working for another Decepticon has been done before, G1 Megatron/Galvatron and Unicron, yeah someone more powerfull comes along, that's going to happen till he can regain his position as leader. But how in the hell is Megatron dieing as a hero more acceptible than something that has happened before in G1.

I think Armada is set in the Shattered Glass universe because the Autobots seem to be the bad guys and the Decepticons seem to be the heroes in the series. Actully worse yet each and every episode seems to be set in an entirely different universe sence I was just as confused watching the series in order from start to finish on YouTube as I was when I missed episodes when it first aired.

Starscream switching sides to join the Autobots. Makes just as much sence when you know the reason as it does when you just randomly turn it on and go "He's an Autobot now? How did that happen?"

Other series have plot holes. Armada doesn't have any Plot Holes, Armada IS a Plot Hole.

About one-third of this is mainly due to dubbing errors, scripting errors, and dialogue errors. Next to Energon, Armada has to probably have been the worst dubbed TF series of them all. Why did Optimus keep calling Sparkplug "Leader-1"? Blame it on the dialogue writers. Why did they say Tidal Wave was a victorious leader? Just to make him sound cooler. It's dub inventions liek these that can be nerve-racking.

I'd bet that if you were to see the Japanese version, Micron Densetsu, you would find it easier to understand and more enjoyable than Armada. I'm not saying that it would make you like the series, just that you would find it better than the English dubbed version.

Rial Vestro wrote:I get that alot of this was based on Opinion but this one thing here is wrong.

Rastamus Prime wrote:Skywarp is conceited and narcassistic

You just described Thundercracker not Skywarp. Skywarp was a coward.

Now as for the rest of what you said. I agree with EVERYTHING you said about character designs and animation however when it comes to plot...

You really think Armada has a decent plot? Animated has it's fair share of plot holes, I will admit that and the ending seemed verry rushed but even still Animated was one of the better wrighten series.

Armada while I'll agree that the Animation was 1000 times better than most other series. The plot was not the least bit decent. I couldn't even follow what the hell was going on in that freaking series. It started out with a verry simple plot that people make fun of for being like Poke'mon and then they abandon that verry simple plot for an impossible to follow plot following Unicron who is a planet sized moon and has a minion who talks to him, doesn't know what side he's on, I think he actully saved the kids from being killed by his master in one episode, and yet revials himself to actully BE unicron while INSIDE of Unicron.

Then there's Thrust who starts out as a super awsome character who I loved for all of 1 episode untill in the verry next episode for no reason what so ever he turns into a totally insaine dumb ass. Sky-Byte was the same type of character as Thrust but when Sky-Byte went insaine and stupid in RID there was actully a reason behind it. He was only like that AFTER an insident where he was frozen in space. Granted it was never really exsplained how he got back to Earth after that and it was kind of a dumb reason to make the character retarded but at least there was some kind reason behind it. Thrust just randomly happened for no reason at all.

Then there's Tidal Wave who was described as a great warrior and leader who was arriving from a battle on another planet however right after hearing this description Tidal Wave proves himself to be the exact oppisite. He's big and powerfull for sure but in no sence is he a great leader. The guy is an idiot. That and that fact that even though Megatron and Tidal Wave have never met before Tidal Wave is some how able to combine with Megatron and worships the ground he walks on.

Wheeljack, just as bad as any of the others. He's originally introduced in "Past" which part 1 was a horribly wrighten episode and part 2 rather than being a continuation of it looked like a rewright of the same plot but better. It focused on Hot Shot and Wheeljack and left out Sideswipe and Blurr which was not a verry interesting story to begin with. Past Part 2 was the best episode and actully the only episode of Armada that I actully liked and wouldn't mind seeing again. You don't even need to watch Part 1 to understand the plot of Part 2 because all the Wheeljack stuff from part 1 is just repeated in Part 2 but better which is why I said it looks like a rewright rather than a continuation. Wheeljack's character again is one I liked for all of 1 episode then in the verry next episode they screw him up so he doesn't make any sence. Wheeljack started out hateing Hot Shot for leaveing him to die and for the rest of the series there no conflict what so ever between thoughs two characters. Wheeljack was still a Decepticon, he still CLAIMED to hate Hot Shot but there was no hatered in his voice anymore. He was all buddy buddy with Hot Shot for the rest of the series and there were times when he actully HELPED Hot Shot.

Oh and the leaders of the groups were just as horribly wrighten. Optimus Prime claims to care about the Mini-cons and says he won't force them to be weapons like the Decepticons yet there's really no difference in how the Autobots and Decepticons treat their Mini-cons and Optimus doesn't even know his Mini-con's name. Hell Optimus doesn't seem to know anyone's name. I've never seen a single episode of Armada where a character wasn't called by the wrong name and 90% of the time it was Optimus doing all the wrong names. Not to mention in the middle of the last episode he just randomly changes to his Powerlink colors along with Jetfire for no reason at all.

Megatron later Galvatron never got any respect unlike other Megatrons who have changed their names to Galvatron this version when he changed his name he was the ONLY character in the series calling himself Galvatron, everyone else still refered to him as Megatron. Starscream got more respect in the series. And Megatron died as a hero in Armada. His death ment the end of Unicron and the end of the war between Autobots and Decepticons. Both he and Optimus knew that and yet Optimus tried to save him and Megatron killed himself in order to save everyone else. What the hell? I don't know why more people aren't pissed about this. Megatron, the leader of the Decepticons, the guy who is supose to be the EVIL BAD GUY, dies as a HERO. I've heard in ROTF Megatron bows down and starts worshiping the Fallen. I think turning Megatron into a hero is 10 times worse than that. Megatron working for another Decepticon has been done before, G1 Megatron/Galvatron and Unicron, yeah someone more powerfull comes along, that's going to happen till he can regain his position as leader. But how in the hell is Megatron dieing as a hero more acceptible than something that has happened before in G1.

I think Armada is set in the Shattered Glass universe because the Autobots seem to be the bad guys and the Decepticons seem to be the heroes in the series. Actully worse yet each and every episode seems to be set in an entirely different universe sence I was just as confused watching the series in order from start to finish on YouTube as I was when I missed episodes when it first aired.

Starscream switching sides to join the Autobots. Makes just as much sence when you know the reason as it does when you just randomly turn it on and go "He's an Autobot now? How did that happen?"

Other series have plot holes. Armada doesn't have any Plot Holes, Armada IS a Plot Hole.

Hahaha, alright. I can't argue anything you said. I don't like Armada now, but when it came out I loved it, I was young and it was the 2nd Transformers show I was exposed to at the time It aired in 2002, I'm 17 now, figure I was about 10 years old. So to me it was awesome. Although today I don't like it like I used to but I have no problems with it. But your points are right. The combing factor was less than stellar with Megatron and Tidal Wave (though as toys I used to love that gimmick.) Looking back, Armada in both Mech designs ans animation shows some very G1 influenced art styles. Having seen about 5 Animated episodes the artwork turns me away, I gave it the college try but couldn't get into it. It's better than no Transformers but I'm just not into it. The one saving grace of the show is it's good storywritng.

Editor wrote:But I do need to mention Animated Prime. He is not a Janitor and until you have fully sat thru the series and know what happened to him pre-series you just don't get the full grasp of the character or the other elements that pushed him to be where he is....

I totally agree with all of Editor's points.

SPOILERS AHEAD

I just recently rewatched the finale of season 3 and the part where OP has the flashback to his and Sentinal Prime's hearing before UM, I got the impression that UM gave SP the chance to come clean.

When UM asked whose idea it was to go planetside, OP responded by saying essentially that he took responsibility because he was in charge of the crew. He didn't rat out SP and SP didn't confess his own wrong doing. UM was basically in between a rock and a hard place. He couldn't let OP off the hook because OP took responsibility and because SP didn't confess. He had to follow protocol and expel OP from the academy and remove eligibility from service in the Elite Guard, despite showing that he suspected that there was "more to the story than meets the optic sensor".

Just to go off topic for a moment to comment on the scene, Jeff Bennett's line delivery was great when he said "Anything you'd care to add?" to SP, his not-so-subtle inflection implying he was really giving SP one last chance to confess. That moment combined with when UM closes his eyes and shakes his head regretfully after SP says he has nothing else to add, was in my opinion some of the best animation done in the series. I understand that the animation was done overseas so I think this delivery of character animation is very impressive. I've heard on more than one occassion that getting these character moments animated right is very difficult, particularly when your animation studio isn't in-house. Animating an action sequence is easier to nail than animating the quiet moments in stories where you need to convey emotion and meaning just below the surface of the visuals and voice work. If it's too subtle, it's missed by the audience and if it's too overworked then it's a caricature rather than an honest moment of the story.

Back to the topic...one could say that OP should have told the truth but he has a sense of responsibility and teamwork to a fault, at least in that situation. He would never consider ratting out a fellow Autobot to save his own hide. However, this morality serves him well later on as a leader who had to handle fending off Decepticons, which in TFA are physically/mechanically superior to most Autobots, with a maintenance crew. A crew composed of an old war vet who has seen better cycles, a conflicted cyber ninja who had to yet complete his training, a space bridge technician(granted he's the most accomplished in that field being Cybertron's top space bridge tech), and a fellow academy drop out who happens to be pretty darn fast. Organizing such a rag tag unit to oppose the Decepticons and survive is no small feat. It shows that he is truly a natural leader and before his backstory is revealed fully, the audience should have a sneaking suspicion that he is in fact meant for greater things but unfortunate circumstances have placed him in the position we see him in at the beginning of the series.

I think that anyone who sells the character of TFA OP short aren't seeing the point of placing the character in such an unremarkable role as a maintenance crew captain. Putting the character in that position ultimately makes the characters extraordinary accomplishments even greater. Seeing an infallible character set up as a great hero from the get-go isn't as compelling as seeing a flawed character rise up to the challenges he's faced with and achieve success.

Compare the character development made for the many of the main characters from episode one to the last episode of TFA to the character development in many of the previous TF series. Every main Autobot's backstory had been explored in TFA, though the Decepticons were given less treatment. The Decepticons were given great material to use but not much effort was put into backstory. However, with solid characterization for the main Decepticon cast, I can't complain.

Rastamus Prime wrote:The combing factor was less than stellar with Megatron and Tidal Wave (though as toys I used to love that gimmick.)

The toys kinda lost all posability while combined but I still liked them. They held togeather better than Optimus Prime, Jetfire, and Overload at least. I have the most horrible time putting thoughs 3 togeather and then once they are finally combined it seems the slightest touch will make them fall apart again. Optimus and Jetfire alone are fine, it's mainly while adding Overload to the mix and makeing everything top heavy. Optimus and Jetfire don't look verry good though as Jetfire basically just because Optimus Prime's second set of pants. (the first being his trailer.)

Actully non of the Leader combinations were any good in the Unicron Trilligy. The only actully good Leader combiner was RID Omega Prime. The rest of them are just asking to be made fun of.

Jet Pants, Shoulder cannons, Power Rangers, Body Armor, and Arm. Oh wait, I can't remember what Cybertron Optimus and Wing Saber looked like togeather. That might of been a good one but considering how bad the others were I doubt it.

Looking back, Armada in both Mech designs ans animation shows some very G1 influenced art styles.

Agreed. The only thing that really seperates the animation styals of Armada from G1 is the human animation. Human characters have never been drawn as realistic as they were in G1.

The art in RID was preddy good too but they did have moments where the robots had overly sarcastic anime faces and then in Armada only humans did that.

It's a shame Energon and Cybertron got that crappy 3-D GCI robots on 2-D backrounds that never ever looked right. Pick one or the other please, mixing art styals never looks good.

As much as I don't like Animated's art styal I do at least give them credit for useing a single art styal rather than trying to blend 2 different things that don't look good togeather. Energon/Cybertron would of been good if they kept the same art styal from Armada or gone completly CGI but mixing the 2 was a definite no no.

Angry geewhiner is whiny.
But hey, everyone has its own opinion.

Rial Vestro wrote:It's a shame Energon and Cybertron got that crappy 3-D GCI robots on 2-D backrounds that never ever looked right. Pick one or the other please, mixing art styals never looks good.

I have to correct that if done properly it looks awesome. Best examples the original Ghost in The Shell movie and the anime series Gantz, which was made by studio Gonzo the same guys that did Cybertron. Which is odd as they did it perfectly in Gantz.

Rial Vestro wrote:Oh wait, I can't remember what Cybertron Optimus and Wing Saber looked like togeather. That might of been a good one but considering how bad the others were I doubt it.

You sure about that?

The big dual-cannon on top that's formed by the cockpit can be closed and folded down onto his back when it's not deployed for use.

Dead Metal wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:It's a shame Energon and Cybertron got that crappy 3-D GCI robots on 2-D backrounds that never ever looked right. Pick one or the other please, mixing art styals never looks good.

I have to correct that if done properly it looks awesome. Best examples the original Ghost in The Shell movie and the anime series Gantz, which was made by studio Gonzo the same guys that did Cybertron. Which is odd as they did it perfectly in Gantz.

I have to agree with DM. Mixed media succeeds when the artists are skilled and know how to use the media in a co-operative manner. The problem with the mix of traditional cel animation and CGI is that there was an obtrusive contrast between the two types of visuals. It definitely was a case of "stick to one style, please" for me because it did seem like the animation styles were going in two different directions. There was nothing subtle about the use of CGI,the resulting animation just didn't have a cohesive look.

Sabrblade wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:Oh wait, I can't remember what Cybertron Optimus and Wing Saber looked like togeather. That might of been a good one but considering how bad the others were I doubt it.

You sure about that?

The big dual-cannon on top that's formed by the cockpit can be closed and folded down onto his back when it's not deployed for use.

That's an improvment over Armada Overload in terms of appearance but it's the same basic concept. Wing Saber is just a back pack and shoulder cannons. Now I'll admit it is better than the others in the Unicron Trilligy but still not anywhere near as good as RID Omega Prime.

As for the mixing art styals... As much as I hate to admit this the first thing I ever saw that mixed different art styals was the first Poke'mon movie which used the same 2-D animation from the cartoon series as well as some added CGI animation that is only used for the movies. While the creators and the majority of the audience seemed to think that was a "flawless blend of different art styals" I still dissagree.

Maybe this is an odd side effect of my color blindness given that most people can't see the difference like I can but even the Poke'mon movies which look 100 times better than Energon/Cybertron still do not look good to me because of the mixed art styals.

There are bits of detailing that you get with any 3-D image that can't be duplicated with triditional animation and no matter how well the styals are blended togeather that difference is allways going to show up.

Now not all CGI images have to be done in 3-D. You can do CGI that looks like triditional animation however there's really no point in mixing triditional animation with 2-D CGI because they look exactly the same.

CGI was not made to blend with triditional art styals it was made to make animation easier. The computer can do in minuts what would take weeks to do with triditional animation.

Even though most people can't see it I still think trying to blend different art styals in any situation is ugly and/or a pointless waist of time.

Rial Vestro wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Rial Vestro wrote:Oh wait, I can't remember what Cybertron Optimus and Wing Saber looked like togeather. That might of been a good one but considering how bad the others were I doubt it.

You sure about that?

The big dual-cannon on top that's formed by the cockpit can be closed and folded down onto his back when it's not deployed for use.

That's an improvment over Armada Overload in terms of appearance but it's the same basic concept. Wing Saber is just a back pack and shoulder cannons. Now I'll admit it is better than the others in the Unicron Trilligy but still not anywhere near as good as RID Omega Prime.

As for the mixing art styals... As much as I hate to admit this the first thing I ever saw that mixed different art styals was the first Poke'mon movie which used the same 2-D animation from the cartoon series as well as some added CGI animation that is only used for the movies. While the creators and the majority of the audience seemed to think that was a "flawless blend of different art styals" I still dissagree.

Maybe this is an odd side effect of my color blindness given that most people can't see the difference like I can but even the Poke'mon movies which look 100 times better than Energon/Cybertron still do not look good to me because of the mixed art styals.

There are bits of detailing that you get with any 3-D image that can't be duplicated with triditional animation and no matter how well the styals are blended togeather that difference is allways going to show up.

Now not all CGI images have to be done in 3-D. You can do CGI that looks like triditional animation however there's really no point in mixing triditional animation with 2-D CGI because they look exactly the same.

CGI was not made to blend with triditional art styals it was made to make animation easier. The computer can do in minuts what would take weeks to do with triditional animation.

Even though most people can't see it I still think trying to blend different art styals in any situation is ugly and/or a pointless waist of time.

Now watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWlbOUK4u5I
It does contain bloody violence, now tell me what in this clip is traditional and what is 3D.

Dead Metal wrote:Now watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWlbOUK4u5I
It does contain bloody violence, now tell me what in this clip is traditional and what is 3D.

The blood at the end was 3-D everything else was 2-D.

And that was the worst thing I have ever seen. Why the hell was there such a long pause between gun fire and big monster reacting to gun fire. That wasn't violent, that was just bloody. And it wasn't even really bloody either, the blood was pink and the 3-D Blood at the end was pink and glitery. It was pretty. lol Sence when is bloody violence that stupid and pretty looking.

Rial Vestro wrote:Maybe this is an odd side effect of my color blindness given that most people can't see the difference like I can but even the Poke'mon movies which look 100 times better than Energon/Cybertron still do not look good to me because of the mixed art styals.

It's not odd at all. Colours affect perception of shape and form and texture. Use of different adjacent colours and background colours can vastly manipulate perception. There are visual "tricks" that involve use of varying colour to change perception of otherwise identical images. So being colour blind will impact how you perceive imagery compared to those without colour blindness. I think in cases of mixed media, the differences may be even more significant to you because there's little tricking your eyes in terms of colour use. Not that Energon/Cybertron did a good job of making the CGI match the cel animation, there was a noticeable difference, but to your eyes, the difference of media styles must be quite acute.