The Energon Pub

Counterpunch wrote:

DevastaTTor wrote:And about your closing, nice attitude. Glad to see when you don't agree, you tell people to piss off. No need to be a total douche bag.

Please allow me that distinction.

And Sir? The only Flame baiting around here will be done by me and will further be directed towards, me (or Punch, he's a dick).

Clear?

(Now smile for the cameras, er, mods. :D )

Now that actually made me laugh out loud.

DevastaTTor wrote:And about your closing, nice attitude. Glad to see when you don't agree, you tell people to piss off. No need to be a total douche bag.

obviously you read that wrong, and took it offensively..
sorry you're softy, but i meant it like go tear them a new asshole.
i don't own stock, just toys, so i bitch with my checkbook, or lack of using it.
i'm sorry you took that personally.

and it seems that punch through a cream pie in counterpunch's face to lighten the mood.
now we laugh.

Counterpunch wrote:

DevastaTTor wrote:And about your closing, nice attitude. Glad to see when you don't agree, you tell people to piss off. No need to be a total douche bag.

Please allow me that distinction.

And Sir? The only Flame baiting around here will be done by me and will further be directed towards, me (or Punch, he's a dick).

Clear?

(Now smile for the cameras, er, mods. :D )

Now that actually made me laugh out loud.

Ironhide Texas wrote:Man this thread is intense!!!!!

No kidding. Who knew it was going to spark off so much debate. Well, it's made my Wednesday go by that much quicker.

DevastaTTor wrote:

Ironhide Texas wrote:Man this thread is intense!!!!!

No kidding. Who knew it was going to spark off so much debate. Well, it's made my Wednesday go by that much quicker.

it's wednesday?

what january?

sorry, random guy on the couch reference.
first thing that came to mind

decepticonjon wrote:

DevastaTTor wrote:And about your closing, nice attitude. Glad to see when you don't agree, you tell people to piss off. No need to be a total douche bag.

obviously you read that wrong, and took it offensively..
sorry you're softy, but i meant it like go tear them a new asshole.
i don't own stock, just toys, so i bitch with my checkbook, or lack of using it.
i'm sorry you took that personally.

and it seems that punch through a cream pie in counterpunch's face to lighten the mood.
now we laugh.

Believe me, I've already been to Hasbro's investors site and am going to follow up with them. Hasbro strikes me as the kind of company who cares what their investors have to say-like they do the fans of their products. Just look at BotCon and the effort they put into that. A fan who's also a shareholder is someone they might actually listen too.

Now, I've taken a deep breath... and am all relaxed.

TheMuffin wrote:Wow. You are so wrong it's hilarious. 4 weeks in a row of unloading the truck at TRU has given me a slight better insight than your baseless comments. Stores around here have gotten nothing in the last month when it comes to Deluxe figures. NOTHING. We only now got in 5 cases of Voyagers yesterday. So before you go attacking someone, at least make sure that you're not coming off like an ignorant ass.

Hilarize your ass if you want, but it sure is not the case here. Plenty of stock everywhere I go. If I can't find something, I look elsewhere, that's it. No need for baby crying on all boards that I can't find figure X and that Hasbro/Wal-Mart/your mom sucks.

Here's what is probably going on with this lack of stock ordeal...

Stores like Walmart, Target, et al order what they think a reasonable number of figures will be to fill their stores and Hasbro fills that order. It is usually a conservative amount incase the movie flops they don't have a large amount of surplus stock to get rid of at a discounted price (they loose money this way). Each store might even have a set amount when buying the first few waves of any movie tie-in figures. In this case, the stores underestimated the popularity of the movie and depeleted their stock levels faster than they could replace them. On top of kids and the die hard TF collector you now have people who after seeing the movie want to get into the line so this makes things harder to find. Then the scalpers get involved because demand is so high they know can turn a hefty profit. Believe me, Target, TRU, Walmart, and yes even Hasbro would love nothing more than to have entire stores chock full of Transformer goodness and have happy fans finding all the 09 BBs they could ever want. So why aren't they stocking the shelves faster? They are going as fast as they can. It takes time to manufacture these toys and with the rush job to get these on the shelves (which will make the QC suffer unfortunately). Plus they have to ship them from China, most likely by boat since air freight would be way too expensive. Believe me in a month's time there will be nothing on these boards but "so how many 09 BB are warming the shelves in your area".

DevastaTTor, you say that Hasbro should have anticipated the popularity of the film and made more figures. This is very tough to engage. If the movie flopped and Hasbro produced more stock than the stores ordered, then they would have wasted alot of money and you would have a true shareholder gripe to deal with because that is bad business plain and simple. We should feel lucky that the movie did so well. It strengthens the TF brand and ensures that money will be going into future TF lines. The movie's success also brings more awareness to Hasbro and TF which usually means a higher stock value. Since Star Wars, which was Hasbro's big money maker in the past, is pretty much over, Hasbro needs the TF brand to succeed fill in that gap. Plus anything that can stengthen the company is good for its stock price.

So in closing, if you want to blame someone, blame the person who orders the figures for each retail chain because they clearly didn't order enough. And who can blame them. Just look at all the Spiderman 3 and Pirates of the Caribbean figures still on the shelves; and their movies opened way before TF did. It isn't Hasbro that calls the shots these days, it's Walmart, Target, et al who tell Hasbro what they want (size of figures, price points of each class, box dimensions, etc.)

well, lemme tell you this:
last week, talked to manager at tru:
said they get new shipment of cases on monday night, show up tuesday as they open to get the new goods.
well,
i went.
and they did in fact get casses.
1 case of voyager, 1 case of deluxes, other random crap.
1 case of deluxes means 1 bb, 1 rc, 1 dreadwing, 1 fb jazz, 1 barricade (orig, not recon), 1 long arm, 1 payload
i bought 4 deluxes, someone right behind me got my left overs.
that's why you're not seeing anything.
stores that are getting them are getting 1 case, 8 figs in delux, 4 in voyager.
the second they stock the product is allready sold.
may not be the case everywhere, but that's the instances here in phx at walmart, target, and confirmed at tru

the demand outweighs the supply, therefore driving prices through the roof in going any other manes to get said product.
its all basic economics.
who'd thunk college does pay off

To add to what Snap Trap is saying, one of the local Walmarts has 14 Classics Devastators and about 6 Classics Primes sitting on the shelf. Why would they want to take the chance on ordering a movie line of toys and have them end up just like the Classics that are collecting dust?

SnapTrap wrote:Here's what is probably going on with this lack of stock ordeal...

Stores like Walmart, Target, et al order what they think a reasonable number of figures will be to fill their stores and Hasbro fills that order. It is usually a conservative amount incase the movie flops they don't have a large amount of surplus stock to get rid of at a discounted price (they loose money this way). Each store might even have a set amount when buying the first few waves of any movie tie-in figures. In this case, the stores underestimated the popularity of the movie and depeleted their stock levels faster than they could replace them. On top of kids and the die hard TF collector you now have people who after seeing the movie want to get into the line so this makes things harder to find. Then the scalpers get involved because demand is so high they know can turn a hefty profit. Believe me, Target, TRU, Walmart, and yes even Hasbro would love nothing more than to have entire stores chock full of Transformer goodness and have happy fans finding all the 09 BBs they could ever want. So why aren't they stocking the shelves faster? They are going as fast as they can. It takes time to manufacture these toys and with the rush job to get these on the shelves (which will make the QC suffer unfortunately). Plus they have to ship them from China, most likely by boat since air freight would be way too expensive. Believe me in a month's time there will be nothing on these boards but "so how many 09 BB are warming the shelves in your area".

DevastaTTor, you say that Hasbro should have anticipated the popularity of the film and made more figures. This is very tough to engage. If the movie flopped and Hasbro produced more stock than the stores ordered, then they would have wasted alot of money and you would have a true shareholder gripe to deal with because that is bad business plain and simple. We should feel lucky that the movie did so well. It strengthens the TF brand and ensures that money will be going into future TF lines. The movie's success also brings more awareness to Hasbro and TF which usually means a higher stock value. Since Star Wars, which was Hasbro's big money maker in the past, is pretty much over, Hasbro needs the TF brand to succeed fill in that gap. Plus anything that can stengthen the company is good for its stock price.

So in closing, if you want to blame someone, blame the person who orders the figures for each retail chain because they clearly didn't order enough. And who can blame them. Just look at all the Spiderman 3 and Pirates of the Caribbean figures still on the shelves; and their movies opened way before TF did. It isn't Hasbro that calls the shots these days, it's Walmart, Target, et al who tell Hasbro what they want (size of figures, price points of each class, box dimensions, etc.)

You do understand the basics of how Walmart works (?)-they have a system of distribution centers (DC) all over the country constantly feeding stock into the store, all monitored by one of the most advanced computer networks built for business. Walmart doesn't even stock an item-they have no inventory. It's up to the manufacturer to replenish the distribution centers so that when a Bumblebee crosses the bar code reader in a store in BFE, the system alerts the DC that they need to send a replacement. That way, the always should have stock on hand or on the way. When 20-30 Walmarts in a region have nothing, that tells me that Hasbro is not keeping up with demand.

I agree that movie is an unproven brand and comparing Star Wars to Transformers is like an apple to an orange. I also agree that Hasbro, as with stores, didn't want to have shelves and shelves of potential shelf warmers or discounts. But when so many people are noting that even Walmart, with all of their power, isn't able to get fresh stock in some areas, there was obviously some miscalculation on Hasbro's part. You're right though, this will strengthen the brand and we're not likely to see the same problem in future movie releases. They'll probably wind up like Spiderman 3 4-6 years from now: a glut of everything.

BS

Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

And if I can't find them looking around every day, parents must be having a nightmare of a time trying to locate these for their kids.

Is there a place to actually write to Hasbro in their crap efforts?

At least it's not Mattel. They just did a huge 9 million toy recall due to lead paint in kids toys. Ouch! At least they have an alibi for not having many toys out. Hasbro should have been on top of this Transformers thing.

upther wrote:To add to what Snap Trap is saying, one of the local Walmarts has 14 Classics Devastators and about 6 Classics Primes sitting on the shelf. Why would they want to take the chance on ordering a movie line of toys and have them end up just like the Classics that are collecting dust?

Then that just means that their initial orders at that particular store were off. They didn't understand the needs or demands of their market. Plus, a lot of fans have basically rejected Classics Devastator anyway. There are always exceptions to the rule.

I had to go to at least 15 wal marts amd target to find something and all the had was stupid wreckage and bone crusher!!! I still bought them.....

Versa wrote:BS

Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

And if I can't find them looking around every day, parents must be having a nightmare of a time trying to locate these for their kids.

Is there a place to actually write to Hasbro in their crap efforts?

At least it's not Mattel. They just did a huge 9 million toy recall due to lead paint in kids toys. Ouch! At least they have an alibi for not having many toys out. Hasbro should have been on top of this Transformers thing.

I heard it was 18 million toys in the us and a few hundred thousand here.

Versa wrote:BS

Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

And if I can't find them looking around every day, parents must be having a nightmare of a time trying to locate these for their kids.

Is there a place to actually write to Hasbro in their crap efforts?

At least it's not Mattel. They just did a huge 9 million toy recall due to lead paint in kids toys. Ouch! At least they have an alibi for not having many toys out. Hasbro should have been on top of this Transformers thing.

The Star Wars fans are screwed too. The majority of the stock out now is wave 1 & 2 30th stuff when wave 5 is out.

Saga Legends wave 2 has been out for awhile and you rarely see any of the wave 1 figures.

Versa wrote:Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

hasbro probably assumed that the first several waves would last through the movie's run, at least into august.. but they didn't.
did any star wars movies come out in the past year?
didn't think so.
once the hype dies down, your movie toys will be on the shelves.
star wars has more collectors give or take, than transformers.. and i only say that because of it's huge success and longevity - which doesn't vary too much from tf

Versa wrote:I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

wrong again.
my parents had to work hard to find optimus prime when he was released back in 85. and then 86 movie.
toys couldn't be ordered online and were much harder to get, so they did, fly off the shelves. and then when things died down, you were able to find them again.
haven't you taken history? don't you know it repeats itself?

[quote="SnapTrap"]
DevastaTTor, you say that Hasbro should have anticipated the popularity of the film and made more figures. This is very tough to engage. If the movie flopped and Hasbro produced more stock than the stores ordered, then they would have wasted alot of money and you would have a true shareholder gripe to deal with because that is bad business plain and simple. We should feel lucky that the movie did so well. It strengthens the TF brand and ensures that money will be going into future TF lines. The movie's success also brings more awareness to Hasbro and TF which usually means a higher stock value. Since Star Wars, which was Hasbro's big money maker in the past, is pretty much over, Hasbro needs the TF brand to succeed fill in that gap. Plus anything that can stengthen the company is good for its stock price.

quote]

I think Star Wars is far from Dead With no less than 2 tv properties comming on line

DevastaTTor wrote:

upther wrote:To add to what Snap Trap is saying, one of the local Walmarts has 14 Classics Devastators and about 6 Classics Primes sitting on the shelf. Why would they want to take the chance on ordering a movie line of toys and have them end up just like the Classics that are collecting dust?

Then that just means that their initial orders at that particular store were off. They didn't understand the needs or demands of their market. Plus, a lot of fans have basically rejected Classics Devastator anyway. There are always exceptions to the rule.

Chances are that the people ordering at the store don't know anything about what the fans think, they just look at it as stock that they can't sell. You're right, the person who did the ordering made a mistake but he won't make the same mistake again which means that he probably under ordered the movie line.

decepticonjon wrote:

Versa wrote:Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

hasbro probably assumed that the first several waves would last through the movie's run, at least into august.. but they didn't.
did any star wars movies come out in the past year?
didn't think so.
once the hype dies down, your movie toys will be on the shelves.
star wars has more collectors give or take, than transformers.. and i only say that because of it's huge success and longevity - which doesn't vary too much from tf

Versa wrote:I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

wrong again.
my parents had to work hard to find optimus prime when he was released back in 85. and then 86 movie.
toys couldn't be ordered online and were much harder to get, so they did, fly off the shelves. and then when things died down, you were able to find them again.
haven't you taken history? don't you know it repeats itself?

Again though, that was 85 when the toys were a relatively new and unproven brand. But I do agree that in about 3 months, the toys will be everywhere. My point was that in not having stock readily available to ship, Hasbro missed the prime opportunity to capitalize on the success of the movie while it's in release. I get it in 85-but in 2007 when Transformers is an established brand, there's less excuse.

DevastaTTor wrote:

decepticonjon wrote:

Versa wrote:Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

hasbro probably assumed that the first several waves would last through the movie's run, at least into august.. but they didn't.
did any star wars movies come out in the past year?
didn't think so.
once the hype dies down, your movie toys will be on the shelves.
star wars has more collectors give or take, than transformers.. and i only say that because of it's huge success and longevity - which doesn't vary too much from tf

Versa wrote:I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

wrong again.
my parents had to work hard to find optimus prime when he was released back in 85. and then 86 movie.
toys couldn't be ordered online and were much harder to get, so they did, fly off the shelves. and then when things died down, you were able to find them again.
haven't you taken history? don't you know it repeats itself?

Again though, that was 85 when the toys were a relatively new and unproven brand. But I do agree that in about 3 months, the toys will be everywhere. My point was that in not having stock readily available to ship, Hasbro missed the prime opportunity to capitalize on the success of the movie while it's in release. I get it in 85-but in 2007 when Transformers is an established brand, there's less excuse.

totally agree, but my suspicion is that they assumed that the june 2nd releases would at least last longer than they did on shelves. and the few waves after that would be restocks. but after the movie, within a week or two the shelves were clear. and all the newcomers are: "where's my goddamn toys!!!! i need them now!"
they didn't prepare for the sucsess and new fans.
you're right, there's no excuse.. but i'm sure they analysed more of they're other movie toys have been shelf warmers, and are now being sold on clearance: spiderman 3, pirates, etc.... all of which are only a month or two older than the new tf's.
just kinda playing devil's advocate for hasbro really.
but the frustration is high.

DevastaTTor wrote:You do understand the basics of how Walmart works (?)-they have a system of distribution centers (DC) all over the country constantly feeding stock into the store, all monitored by one of the most advanced computer networks built for business. Walmart doesn't even stock an item-they have no inventory. It's up to the manufacturer to replenish the distribution centers so that when a Bumblebee crosses the bar code reader in a store in BFE, the system alerts the DC that they need to send a replacement. That way, the always should have stock on hand or on the way. When 20-30 Walmarts in a region have nothing, that tells me that Hasbro is not keeping up with demand.

Confirmed.

This is how Wal-Mart works.

It takes a management override to make specific orders.

tmthor wrote:

SnapTrap wrote:DevastaTTor, you say that Hasbro should have anticipated the popularity of the film and made more figures. This is very tough to engage. If the movie flopped and Hasbro produced more stock than the stores ordered, then they would have wasted alot of money and you would have a true shareholder gripe to deal with because that is bad business plain and simple. We should feel lucky that the movie did so well. It strengthens the TF brand and ensures that money will be going into future TF lines. The movie's success also brings more awareness to Hasbro and TF which usually means a higher stock value. Since Star Wars, which was Hasbro's big money maker in the past, is pretty much over, Hasbro needs the TF brand to succeed fill in that gap. Plus anything that can stengthen the company is good for its stock price.

quote]

I think Star Wars is far from Dead With no less than 2 tv properties comming on line

Again, I agree with what you're saying. In business, it's hard to gauge what the market's going to bear. But when there are so many stores in so many regions with little or no supply at all, I have to question Hasbro's readiness and their ability to react.

And it will be interesting to see what's next for the SW brand with the new shows on the way.

decepticonjon wrote:

DevastaTTor wrote:

decepticonjon wrote:

Versa wrote:Hasbro screwed the pooch and they can't get these damn things out to the stores. Yet every other Hasbro toy is being well stocked. Look at all the Star Wars out all the time. They need to keep it full like that.

hasbro probably assumed that the first several waves would last through the movie's run, at least into august.. but they didn't.
did any star wars movies come out in the past year?
didn't think so.
once the hype dies down, your movie toys will be on the shelves.
star wars has more collectors give or take, than transformers.. and i only say that because of it's huge success and longevity - which doesn't vary too much from tf

Versa wrote:I'm VERY VERY disappointed in Hasbro. Even when the cartoon was popular back in the day at least they had the toys in supply and easier to find. This is just crazy.

wrong again.
my parents had to work hard to find optimus prime when he was released back in 85. and then 86 movie.
toys couldn't be ordered online and were much harder to get, so they did, fly off the shelves. and then when things died down, you were able to find them again.
haven't you taken history? don't you know it repeats itself?

Again though, that was 85 when the toys were a relatively new and unproven brand. But I do agree that in about 3 months, the toys will be everywhere. My point was that in not having stock readily available to ship, Hasbro missed the prime opportunity to capitalize on the success of the movie while it's in release. I get it in 85-but in 2007 when Transformers is an established brand, there's less excuse.

totally agree, but my suspicion is that they assumed that the june 2nd releases would at least last longer than they did on shelves. and the few waves after that would be restocks. but after the movie, within a week or two the shelves were clear. and all the newcomers are: "where's my goddamn toys!!!! i need them now!"
they didn't prepare for the sucsess and new fans.
you're right, there's no excuse.. but i'm sure they analysed more of they're other movie toys have been shelf warmers, and are now being sold on clearance: spiderman 3, pirates, etc.... all of which are only a month or two older than the new tf's.
just kinda playing devil's advocate for hasbro really.
but the frustration is high.

Ironically, I'll probably be writing the exact opposite thing 2-3 years from now when they've misforecast demand the other direction and have overstocked everything.

DevastaTTor wrote:You do understand the basics of how Walmart works (?)-they have a system of distribution centers (DC) all over the country constantly feeding stock into the store, all monitored by one of the most advanced computer networks built for business. Walmart doesn't even stock an item-they have no inventory. It's up to the manufacturer to replenish the distribution centers so that when a Bumblebee crosses the bar code reader in a store in BFE, the system alerts the DC that they need to send a replacement. That way, the always should have stock on hand or on the way. When 20-30 Walmarts in a region have nothing, that tells me that Hasbro is not keeping up with demand.

I agree that movie is an unproven brand and comparing Star Wars to Transformers is like an apple to an orange. I also agree that Hasbro, as with stores, didn't want to have shelves and shelves of potential shelf warmers or discounts. But when so many people are noting that even Walmart, with all of their power, isn't able to get fresh stock in some areas, there was obviously some miscalculation on Hasbro's part. You're right though, this will strengthen the brand and we're not likely to see the same problem in future movie releases. They'll probably wind up like Spiderman 3 4-6 years from now: a glut of everything.

Yes I do understand how Wal-mart's distriubution chain works, but here's what I am saying. Well before before any toy is scanned in; heck even before Hasbro begins manufacturing any figures, they need to get initial orders from Walmart and Target and the like. The buyers for the store pretty much guestimate the popularity of said upcoming line and probably do all kinds of research and use fancy software to come up with a number that will keep them well stocked for a couple of months so they can see how well the figures are selling. For example lets say Hasbro has the ability to make 20 million figures of all classes of movie figures. Walmart decides to order 5 million total figures Target orders 5 million and Tru orders 4 million, and 2 million go to others like Kohls, KB, etc. This happens shortly after the International Toy show in NY (Jan I believe). Hasbro gets all of the orders and makes 16 million toys and delivers them to the stores and begins manufacturing the next waves after the main run are delivered.

Well the toys become extremely popular and sell out much faster than the stores originally estimated. If Walmart had ordered 1 to 2 million more toys they may have had a better handle of keeping items in stock.
Most likely the stores realized too late that these were selling out faster and their stockpiles were quickly dwindling. The stores probably did order more right away but the turn around time for Hasbro to make and ship them takes time. Plus since the shortage is nation wide the distribution centers have to ship out to every store. Generally, there are some areas that sell out of stock quickly and other areas where it doesn't. The stock that we are seeing would generally go to the stores that are selling stock with the slower stores receiving little to no new figures in. Since all stores distribution centers are out of stock, then each one gets 1 box of deluxes, voyagers, etc instead. Like I posted earlier, Hasbro won't make the extra 4 million (remember the can produce up to 20 million) figures on speculation that the movie will be a big hit. It is too much of a gamble for them to do this. A good example of this is the Universe Seacon set that Walmart wanted and later backed out of. Hasbro was stuck with a store exclusive that nobody (but collectors and Skowl) wanted. The set was sitting around for three years in a storage facility until TFCC worked a deal to eventually start selling it. Imagine if these were 4 million movie toys.

I agree with you that Hasbro is having trouble keeping up with demand right now but it was the stores underestimating how well the toys would sell and ensuring that their initial order would help sustain them for a longer time than it actually did.