The Energon Pub

Yeah that reason is beast wars ph and of course the biggie, the live action movies which helped tremendously.

It seems to me you just want to live in the past and I've no objection to that, I mean unless you go out of your box those ideas you're liking won't go very far, especially if you apply cartoon clichés in there. Times have changed, the fandom is changing and if mtmte (which I'm noticing is getting a lot of the flack here) is getting new fans in who want toys of their favourites (nautica in titan returns!) Then that is not a bad thing. I fact that's a good thing. Tastes are different then they were in the eighties, it's time for the kids of today to have their own g1 (rescue bits, prime and robots in disguise), we need to stop forcing the old ways upon them.

Waffled on a bit more than I thought I would, last words for now: I also don't like the way fans react to other fans when they say they prefer the newer stuff, why do we as fans divide ourselves like this? I mean we are all fans of transforming giant alien robots aren't we?

Please feel free to go to comichron.com and look at the sales figures of MTMTE from the beginning to its' most recent month. The trend does not indicate an influx of new fans.

I'm just a little confused here. Especially with Massinissa's post.

I thought IDW started books like Esclation, MTMTE, not RiD etc. as a new take on G1? Does adding same sex couples and references to TV sitcoms make it not G1? Or is this how IDW appeals to people outside of the fandom? Using this logic, adding nudity to the pretender shells would increase sales. Interest in the characters themselves should be enough to bring new people in.

Lastly, my proposal does not exclude beasts as Massinissa claims. An alien warlord who wishes to purchase Transformers from a Quintesson may not think that a Jet was a right fit for jungle warfare. He would order a soldier that could transform from warrior to beast in order to silently stalk his prey. Or maybe he just wants a fearsome looking pet who can transform from beast to butler? Two product lines to choose from, baby! If you're an alien warlord, you've got options.

Whoa, totally missed massassina's post. I think you hit the nail on the head 1984. People are getting defensive because they feel we're attacking their lifestyle. Let me assure you I'm not. I just don't think certain subplots make sense in Transformers stories. So while some people feel as if they can now relate to the characters. There are some who now are turned off.
James Roberts said in a recent Transmissions podcast interview that he was pleased about LGBT readers feeling more connected to the charactoers and this was not calculated. I believe he is happy with the connection to some readers. But I'm calling BS on his denial of foresight. After the Dying of the Light story arc, I'm out.
1984, if you ever put out any fanfics, I would definitely like to read them.

Someone else posted?

*looks back*

Okay sorry about that, when I get a new post notification I just scroll to the bottom of the page.

Okay, furman helped start the idw G1 (I'd probably just of called it the idw verse but they know G1 can hook old fans in at the start while newer readers may just hoo aboard the start of something) but to do it in the 00s decade, saying this would be how he would launch transformers now. This is why the -tion series were set in present day. Though there was exceptions in the spotlight series and mini series like megatron origins which while awesome at the time have been retconned since...which is nothing new in comics. Actually the changes they've done to megs back story have really helped make hum a three dimensional character. But that's neither here or there.

Back on track, these references to sitcoms and other things exist in today's transformer shows not just the comics. The lgbt, I don't get the big deal over, while they may of been written using masculine pronouns, in their world their supposed to be genderless. As to why genderless beings feel the need to form connections of romance with each other, they still have feelings and companionship is the key factor. If this doesn't sit well with you then nothing I can say will help, I'm neutral with it, it's just life.

Final thing about it though is that hasbro still sign off on all these changes, so what's that tell you.

A side note, 1984 I think you should put these ideas down into writing properly as fan fictions, and if you prefer visual medium, then go to the art threads and see if any artists there wouldn't mind helping you out.

If there is a gap in the market, fill it

1984forever wrote:It's no secret that I despise all of the IDW comics. I have feelings of disgust and hatred for all of their titles. Even Deviations was a massive letdown because the dialogue was off and the characters were way out of character. I post what I don't like about a certain book and then people choose to comment about me, saying stuff like "you haven't liked anything since '84!" and "stop reading!" or "They're not for you!" Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Well, here's what I would do if I had the Transformers license. You can comment on my ideas or post your own because IMO anything is better than what IDW is squelching out now.

Then take your own advice. Stop reading and/or buying them and stop posting about how bad James Roberts "raped your childhood!" in threads about them go post about how you love Marvel and Dreamwave and focus on the things you like and stop posting all this bile.
If you can't offer any insight other than "IDW sucks and I hate them! then you're nothing but a troll.

misfire19d wrote:Whoa, totally missed massassina's post. I think you hit the nail on the head 1984. People are getting defensive because they feel we're attacking their lifestyle. Let me assure you I'm not. I just don't think certain subplots make sense in Transformers stories. So while some people feel as if they can now relate to the characters. There are some who now are turned off.
James Roberts said in a recent Transmissions podcast interview that he was pleased about LGBT readers feeling more connected to the charactoers and this was not calculated. I believe he is happy with the connection to some readers. But I'm calling BS on his denial of foresight. After the Dying of the Light story arc, I'm out.
1984, if you ever put out any fanfics, I would definitely like to read them.

thanks for the compliments. I can make up plots by the minute, but I would need to actually learn to be a writer to put out anything readable.

I would love to see this one in fanfic...

Autobots invade a Decepticon held city on Cybertron. Misfire manages to accidentally score a headshot on his commander Scorponok before damaging Getaway, who witnesses the whole clumsy act. With his cerebral circuits damaged, Getaway wanders out of the city his fellow Autobots have just taken. Back at Decepticon HQ Galvatron is furious. He feels that if Scorponok weren't taken out of the battle then his Decepticons would have kept the city. Misfire says he saw Getaway shoot Scorponok. Galvatron teams Misfire up with scary mechs like the Predacons and Terrorcons to bring Getaway back alive to be tortured.

Any one of those Decepticons would tear misfire apart if they found out the truth. Misfire decides that Getaway must not be captured. Even if it means helping him get out of whatever contraption his hunters devise to hold him in for the trip back to Galvatron.

Scorponok's Headmaster, Lord Zarak may lay in critical condition but Scorponok himself is about to come back online. Will he remember anything? Meanwhile Misfire's own Targetmaster thinks about outing him... but he's kind of the one who actually shot Scorponok....

Cyberstrike wrote:

1984forever wrote:It's no secret that I despise all of the IDW comics. I have feelings of disgust and hatred for all of their titles. Even Deviations was a massive letdown because the dialogue was off and the characters were way out of character. I post what I don't like about a certain book and then people choose to comment about me, saying stuff like "you haven't liked anything since '84!" and "stop reading!" or "They're not for you!" Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Well, here's what I would do if I had the Transformers license. You can comment on my ideas or post your own because IMO anything is better than what IDW is squelching out now.

Then take your own advice. Stop reading and/or buying them and stop posting about how bad James Roberts "raped your childhood!" in threads about them go post about how you love Marvel and Dreamwave and focus on the things you like and stop posting all this bile.
If you can't offer any insight other than "IDW sucks and I hate them! then you're nothing but a troll.

Be careful for what you wish. If sales drop any further TF and MTMTE both may go the way of gijoe v TF and RID.

If that happens I'll just look forward to the reboot with a new creative team.

See you at botcon.

Massinissa wrote:Anyway, to go back to 1984Forevers posts, realize that most people in the mainstream dont give a damn about G1, while MTMTE has attracted at least some outside attention from people who are not already TF fans.

Which is a great thing. New blood keeps The Transformers as a franchise and as a brand going.

Does anyone here really expect a G1 Sunbow fanwank comic to sell well in todays market? Not even all Transformers fans would be interested in what 1984forever is saying. Among other things, what he is proposing means no beasts

To some people sadly they do think that.
Never mind the fact that IDW already did a Marvel continuation and trio of Beast Wars mini-series that all pretty sucked and I don't see petitions for their revivals.

What 1984forever is proposing would only interest him and the ever decreasing number of GWUNers, im afraid.

By the way, I do have a question. Does anyone know where I can find out how well the old Dreamwave comics sold? Would be nice to compare that to MTMTE's numbers

The original Dreamwave series sold over million copies but in proper context it was the first all new Transformers series in a decade or more and the fans were starving for new TF comics and would have bought it, the only problem was it was pure **** it's story made no freaking sense and the art was horrible. The second series was also **** the story was a glorified fanwank and Pat Lee's art was even worse the second time around. By the time they did an "ongoing" series and hired Don Figuria to do the art the story was about a Gary Sue character who wants to have sex with Starscream or something and Prowl wants to build Autobot City on Earth because Optimus has vision of Unicron coming to eat Cybertron or Earth.

Sorry but my cat could come up with a better story than any of the writers from Dreamwave.

IMHO Dreamwave as a whole pretty much sucked, it did have some good ideas even a few great ideas but good ideas or not there is no amount of fanboy whining is not going to make what was actually printed and sold any damn good.

And if a G1 fanwank was a best seller then Dreamwave wouldn't have went bankrupt and/or Regeneration One would still be going on and would have been the #1 selling comic book of all time.

ZeroWolf wrote:
A side note, 1984 I think you should put these ideas down into writing properly as fan fictions, and if you prefer visual medium, then go to the art threads and see if any artists there wouldn't mind helping you out.

If there is a gap in the market, fill it

fanfics are nice... sometimes. But I'm not sure how a Transformers story can entertain me if I'm the one making up the stories. It's kinda like saying "you don't like the FF movie? Make your own!"

I just read your last idea 1984. You just blew last year of tf and mtmte stories out of the water. I would read the hell outta that.

I always wanted to see Grimlock vs Motormaster. They're both BAs with swords and attitudes. Onslaught vs Prowl. Two planners in a battle of wits and strategy.

There could be a PSA page at the back about not picking on kids who seem different and be sure to recycle plastics to satisfy the dozens upon dozens of "new" fans.

1984forever wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:
A side note, 1984 I think you should put these ideas down into writing properly as fan fictions, and if you prefer visual medium, then go to the art threads and see if any artists there wouldn't mind helping you out.

If there is a gap in the market, fill it

fanfics are nice... sometimes. But I'm not sure how a Transformers story can entertain me if I'm the one making up the stories. It's kinda like saying "you don't like the FF movie? Make your own!"

I can understand, just offering an outlet for you ideas

misfire19d wrote:I just read your last idea 1984. You just blew last year of tf and mtmte stories out of the water. I would read the hell outta that.

I always wanted to see Grimlock vs Motormaster. They're both BAs with swords and attitudes. Onslaught vs Prowl. Two planners in a battle of wits and strategy.

There could be a PSA page at the back about not picking on kids who seem different and be sure to recycle plastics to satisfy the dozens upon dozens of "new" fans.

I would approach Prowl v Onslaught like this-

In the artic Skyfire and (RTS) Perceptor have discovered a new element that increases the volume of Energon by 30%. Skyfire flies a sample back to the Ark while Perceptor guards the find. Skyfire starts malfunctioning mid flight. He doesn't know whether it's his new upgrades or the element that's making him glitch, but he knows for sure that he's going to crash over Carbomya.

Skyfire radios for help and releases some drones to form a defensive perimeter around the crash site. Soundwave intercepts the distress signal and informs Megatron who dispatches the Combaticons. Prime sends Prowl, Ratchet, Red Alert, Inferno and Hoist via shuttlecraft to rescue Skyfire. Sandstorms force both teams to land miles away from Skyfire's position with the Carbomyan army caught in the middle.

Swindle observes that the tanks have a purplish hue. He confesses to Onslaught that he sold "a few" sheets of Cybertronian steel to a human who said he was from Carbomya months ago. After calling him a fool, Onslaught deduces that the artillery is probably made from Cybertronian metal too. The Carbomyans are a now a threat.

On the other side Prowl has come to the same conclusion using just half the info. He considers shooting an acid pellet in the air in alt mode at just the right angle so it lands on a tank nearest the Combaticons, tricking the humans into firing on his enemies. But Prime wouldn't approve of that plan...

A beam fired from above nearly destroys Red Alert. Onslaught had ordered Blast Off to snipe the Autobot's leader, but he mistook Red for Prowl because he's shooting from orbit and both the Autobots were cars with sirens on top of them.

The Autobots roll for it with Hoist towing Red Alert. Onslaught wants to complete the mission, but he wants to destroy high value targets like the Autobot's medic and their strategist too. He decides to send Blast Off to scrap Skyfire and steal the element while he and the rest of the Combaticons form a one armed, but battle ready Bruticus!

Bruticus promptly trips over a tow line set by Hoist. Ordinarily even Bruticus wouldn't fall for such an obvious trap, but Prowl calculated that the combiner would be about 20% less intelligent without Blast Off and the humans would further distract the newly formed giant threat by firing upon him.

Obviously the story would continue with Onslaught making plans that his troops would foul up, while Prowl further infuriates him by besting them using simple, but effective tactics until there was a winner...

^^^

This is how I would do Grimlock v Motormaster.

Ratchet had just finished repairing Optimus and his welds hadn't even cooled yet when Teletraan reported Stunticons at the oil refinery. Prime rolled out giving orders to Ratchet to contact the nearest Autobot patrol and tell them to meet him there.

Motormaster tells the other Stunticons to make Energon cubes and then he hits the road, thinking about the time Prime forced him off a cliff where he wound up at the bottom in pieces. Motormaster doesn't even realize that Prime just sped past him going in the opposite direction until about 800 astroseconds later.

Prime arrives at the refinery and cuts thru the first three Stunticons with blows from his Energon axe. He aims his Ion blaster at Breakdown, but the Stunticon wisely transforms and speeds away... powerful vibrations from his engine shaking pipes loose. Sparks from a damaged Stunticon start a fire. Workers who went into hiding when the Stunticons arrived choose now to make a run for it. Prime shields them from the explosion with his own chassis.

Grimlock stands over the offline and barely functioning Optimus Prime. "You so weak... I told you about protecting stupid humans." Grimlock raises his sword to put Prime out of his misery. But before he can thrust it down into the ground in frustration of his inability to do what must be done for the good of all Autobots.... Motormaster crosses swords with him! "Why?" Grimlock demands. Motormaster laughs "Why? Because this hunk of junk owes me a rematch!"

The other Dinobots form a circle around them. Grimlock is stronger, but Motormaster is faster as he stabs him thru the torso. Motormaster pulls the sword out and swings it around intending to decapitate. Grimlock transforms, catches the sword in his jaws and breaks it in half. "Leave". Motormaster does just that. Transforming and leaving the other Stunticons behind.

Prime is brought back for repairs, the three damaged Stunticons are put in cold storage and Grimlock is hailed as a hero. He doesn't say a word as he passes by the drunken Autobots. A panel in the wall slides up, Grimlock steps in and powers down. "My time will come" are his last thoughts.

You are my hero. The guy from Brooklyn just pulled IDW's punk card.

Action in comics bore the hell out of me. Give me a character driven stories oh wait I got MTMTE and The Transformers from IDW not a retread of an 80s cartoon show, which I can watch anytime I want.

Cyberstrike wrote:Action in comics bore the hell out of me. Give me a character driven stories oh wait I got MTMTE and The Transformers from IDW not a retread of an 80s cartoon show, which I can watch anytime I want.

Not sure why you would want to, they are nothing special compared to everything that came out afterwards

Cyberstrike wrote:Action in comics bore the hell out of me. Give me a character driven stories oh wait I got MTMTE and The Transformers from IDW not a retread of an 80s cartoon show, which I can watch anytime I want.

yeah, I guess that's why people are more excited about reading the dying of the light arc rather than the few issues that came before it. It's because "The dying of the light" has less action in it

ZeroWolf wrote:

Cyberstrike wrote:Action in comics bore the hell out of me. Give me a character driven stories oh wait I got MTMTE and The Transformers from IDW not a retread of an 80s cartoon show, which I can watch anytime I want.

Not sure why you would want to, they are nothing special compared to everything that came out afterwards

I think what he meant was that if he wanted G1 cartoon-style action and story, he would just watch the G1 cartoon, not read a comic book version if it, as 1984forever proposed. I agree mostly, with the exception that action in comics, especially TF comics, are not boring if done right, especially 1-on-1 fights. Optimus vs. Thunderwing in Marvel #66 and Shockwave vs. Scorponok in #72 and #73 come to mind, Furman paced those fights very well. I haven't seen MTMTE even come close in fights, even if their stories are pretty good. (Still not as good as G1.)

Yes! Precisely!

Firstly - I appreciate your enthusiasm for the original series, 1984. I love it too, for what it is, but a good comic it would not make - you need character growth and once you start having growth, then characters are no longer their original 1984-biography selves.

Secondly - Dreamwave. Dreamwave (for me) didn't capture the 'spirit' of G1 at all. It just happened to look vaguely like it and feature similar characters. When you go back and look at the climate the original Dreamwave G1 6-issue series sold in then you'll have most of your answers - Hasbro were just reissuing Optimus Prime, being "retro" was the new thing to be (lol!) and those of us that enjoyed G1 originally were of a certain age enough to be enjoying things from our past, which all adds up to the market being very hungry for anything like it - if you go to the times when Dreamwave were closing down and IDW would soon take the reigns then you'll see the sales figures were similar between the transitions. The sales decline didn't start with IDW, it started with Dreamwave and the decline for the need of 'retro' in the market - even with G1 toys its incredibly unusual to see a reissue now, whereas back in 2002~2005 they were on general retail in ToysRUs and comic-book stores.

Thirdly - Writing. Bud Budiansky probably did the best job of that (given he wrote the original bios, that comes as no surprise) which you end up with wrestlers and mechanics wielding huge wrenches in your comic and that just won't fly with IDW's target audience which is adults. The comics back in 1984 got away with it because it was aimed at children and relied on the very large Transformers bubble that was around - they could've probably printed toilet paper with Transformers on it at the time and sold in equal numbers. Simon Furman was (and is) great, I agree - but I feel like he's had his time with the brand and fresh ideas are what is needed to prevent the brand from stagnation, which brings me neatly to

Forth - Stagnation. It won't be 1984 ever again. We won't be children ever again and children now like different things to children back then. Transformers has never looked back from the 1986 movie going onwards as continuous evolution of themes, ideas, characters and storylines has been a constant in the Transformers brand since its onset. Going backwards would be a mistake - Transformers has a rich history and IDW have been part of that now for a THIRD of it, which is longer than anyone else managed to take it - so far they've brought in heaps of new lore, new ideas, clever re-imaginings and respectful nods to its predecessors in all its forms and I feel that effectively throwing that away would be a waste of all that talent. Fandoms need new fans, new ideas, new material to survive - otherwise it stagnates and dies.

Last point - even Simon Furman when he created Regeneration One wanted a full signing off on the Marvel universe. Thats done with and he did a decent (my opinion) job of going back to it and in doing so - it really did feel 'old'. I feel that anyone that tried something similar would be left with the same fate, too - for the reasons above.

Thank you amelie that was a great post!

Rodimus Prime@ I was just talking about the g1 toon. Comics are a different beast

Amelie, my ideas are not Sunbow on paper! It's just the characters for the most part, sounding and acting like themselves. Yes I'm aware that some characters will grow and change from their original Tech Specs, but let's be real here, most of them will stay the same simply because there are too many characters to put in the spotlight. My biggest beef is that many of the Transformers in IDW never acted like themselves.

I don't believe that the addition of same sex couples (heterosexual couples in TFs were meh), references to Doctor Who and some show called Community (?), along with showing sparks laying on the ground like pool lights are great additions to the franchise. I guess most people nowadays would love it if the Transformers were depicted more with their necks craned towards their phones 24/7. Yeah! That's the way to make Transformers fresh and new! More people can relate to that right?

But what is wrong with that? More people relating if the tfs started acting more three dimensional than the parameters that only existed as background fluff for toys? What is the worst case scenario for you?

1984forever wrote:Amelie, my ideas are not Sunbow on paper! It's just the characters for the most part, sounding and acting like themselves.

Thats entirely the problem, though - the characters sounding and acting like themselves would just be that - Sunbow on paper. And it wouldn't work, just like how a lot of Budiansky's work came out as rather.... SaturdayAM, and not necessarily in a good way. On the subject of Budiansky and Furman - I think they did vast chunks of the G1 cast justice in their original Bio respect, inclusive of rather silly snappy one-liners (which IDW still has).

Personally I'd find the idea of another iteration of Dreamwave styled comics to be horrendous, because the writing felt less like G1 and more like someone trying to write - Sunbow: The Hardcore Edition. And that didn't sit well with me.