The Energon Pub

[ZeroWolf]

Plus, honestly... a continuation of the original G1 series wouldn't work because it didn't really have a particular story behind it. It was just fun, silly situation-of-the-week episodes that had no real connection, was pretty mindless, and never went anywhere. Which is fun, but there's not really any story to continue there.
Now if you're talking about something like Marvel G1, Beast Wars, Animated etc. who do have stories and characters that went places and it would be great to see a continuation of - especially given the latter's cancellation - then that makes sense. But beyond the pure basic thinking birthed from nostalgia of "OMG MY CHILDHOOD SHOW'S BACK", what could you really do with the G1 cartoon?
It's why I was initially scared at the rumours of Combiner Wars being a G1 continuation because it's (trying to be) a serious story which doesn't really fit in at all with G1.

You've captured perfectly my other thoughts about this, the tone of G1, and you would have to get dark and let the bad guys win in order to properly bridge the gap between s2 and the movie and that for me would pretty jarring. You could argue that the beginning of the movie was dark but that was just the after effect of a pure business decision, aka the law of unintended consequences.

[Hero Alpha]

If I'm honest, I'm very meh on the idea and I would like to see them continue to tell new stories that aren't constricted by G1. Give me an animated series set in the idw time line or a new time line altogether. The original G1 had its time in the sun, let it enjoy retirement.

Although Sunbow season 2.5 would be sweet. I have to agree that my preference would be an IDW set show. MtMtE would fit perfect for a 30min show.

[william-james88]

If I'm honest, I'm very meh on the idea and I would like to see them continue to tell new stories that aren't constricted by G1. Give me an animated series set in the idw time line or a new time line altogether. The original G1 had its time in the sun, let it enjoy retirement.

Although Sunbow season 2.5 would be sweet. I have to agree that my preference would be an IDW set show. MtMtE would fit perfect for a 30min show.

I would be all for a MTMTE show. However, I think Hasbro would be warmer to a John Barber Transformers show than a show like the MTMTE comic.

[o.supreme]

Plus, honestly... a continuation of the original G1 series wouldn't work because it didn't really have a particular story behind it. It was just fun, silly situation-of-the-week episodes that had no real connection, was pretty mindless, and never went anywhere.

With all due respect, I do not agree with your assessment. Was the original series silly at times? Sure, but so was the Marvel Comic. Also there was a very solid overall story especially in season 3 despite the limitations of the animation. I have had literally hundreds of ideas for episodes that could take place in the original series. saying its pointless is just nonsensical to me. Now I'm not saying that the majority of fans would agree that a continuation of the original animated series would be a good thing, but since its never been done before, how would we know? But I'm pretty sure we will never know because Hasbro is just too cheap to try it.

All I know is this...There are many fan made short films on sites like YouTube using all forms (cosplay, toys, animation etc..) based on the original series. I have not seen one for BW that uses anything original other than reused clips from the series itself, and basically nothing from any other TF continuity.

[Kurona]

Plus, honestly... a continuation of the original G1 series wouldn't work because it didn't really have a particular story behind it. It was just fun, silly situation-of-the-week episodes that had no real connection, was pretty mindless, and never went anywhere.

With all due respect, I do not agree with your assessment. Was the original series silly at times? Sure, but so was the Marvel Comic. Also there was a very solid overall story especially in season 3 despite the limitations of the animation. I have had literally hundreds of ideas for episodes that could take place in the original series. saying its pointless is just nonsensical to me. Now I'm not saying that the majority of fans would agree that a continuation of the original animated series would be a good thing, but since its never been done before, how would we know? But I'm pretty sure we will never know because Hasbro is just too cheap to try it.

All I know is this...There are many fan made short films on sites like YouTube using all forms (cosplay, toys, animation etc..) based on the original series. I have not seen one for BW that uses anything original other than reused clips from the series itself, and basically nothing from any other TF continuity.

Alright, what was the story? What progress was made? What arcs happened, what character development happened, did anything actually happen of any substance other than situation-of-the-week episodes, the Movie changing the setting and episodes that introduced new toys notwithstanding?

[ZeroWolf]

A better way of putting it might be, what happened that wasn't reset by the end of the ep. Off the top of my head I can think of two-three instances off the top of my head but one is a multi episode event (key to vector sigma) and the other may as well be a two parter (starscream brigade and revenge of bruticus) but then again they are only introducing characters. Plus the comics may of had their light moments (car wash of doom any one? ) but they had far more involving story lines then the toon and inspired people just as much as it's toon counterpart because of its storytelling.

[Bumblevivisector]

All I know is this...There are many fan made short films on sites like YouTube using all forms (cosplay, toys, animation etc..) based on the original series. I have not seen one for BW that uses anything original other than reused clips from the series itself, and basically nothing from any other TF continuity.

With all due respect to you as well, I think the reason there hasn't been as much of that for Beast Wars is that it told a much tighter story that didn't need as much improvement, introduce as many underused characters, or leave as many loose ends to enable or warrant that much fanwankery. What room there was has already been explored by official stories from 3H, FunPub, and IDW, after being run into the ground by the glut of late '90s prose fanfic. Ben Yee said his original idea for 'Descent Into Evil' was a G1/BW bridge story, until he remembered that just about every long-term TF fan with internet access in 1996 had already written that story, therefore no one would allow an official version to displace their personal canon for that particular time gap.

(DISCLAIMER: o.supreme, the rest of this isn't directed at you as much as an argument that needs to be put forth forth for counter-argument's sake; this general argument's been bugging me for a while)

And therein lies the reason that an "official G1 continuation" will never, ever work: It means something too different to every one of us. I'd most like to see more late season 3 stories, so Rodimus could get more respect as was his due, before being unfairly brushed aside by that arrogant zombie whose heroic death was also unfairly undone.

Which brings me to the reason I would actually LOVE to see Hasbro try this proposition: watching an official G1 continuation crash and burn is the only thing that might ever put this silly pipe-dream to rest. Cuz no matter how it turns out, where it tries to fit in, or what right notes it hits, I guarantee you, every geewunner who's been whining for this for three decades despite never actually rewatching the cartoon so dear to their memories in all that time would just scream their head off about how "Hasblow didn't do it right! And why not? It woulda' been so easy! This crap isn't even Transformers!" In fact, I need to hear some of that ASAP to get that glowing youtube review of the fangasmically awesome TF:TM Deviations comic out of my head. Please Hasbro, get your newly-acquired animation studio working on the G1 continuation!

Mods, if I've just reopened old wounds, I'll accept any stern warnings I'm due. But that had to be said. And had to be negative.

But if you think I'm actually wrong, then please explain just how this hypothetical continuation of the G1 cartoon would be quantifiably better than the one we already got. You see, any 'new season 4' argument simply presumes that the G1 anime don't count. Well, why not?

Because most western fans didn't see it when they were kids? Well, even though Hasbro hobbled the official Shout! release with dumb subtitle decisions, surely anyone who "needs" more G1 cartoons can have a look somewhere online, or could have at some point in the last decade.

Because accepting Headmasters bumps The Rebirth out of the timeline? While I do get the strength of nostalgia-blinders for those 3 eps as a symbol of what might have been, any actual demand for more G1 eps makes clinging to them instead of accepting three whole seasons pretty illogical.

Because of inconsistencies with the Sunbow cartoon? Well, are any of those greater than the U.S. material's internal inconsistencies? Like the Autobots losing their collective flying ability near the end of the third episode, the means by which new TFs are brought to life changing every season, and Optimus somehow becoming retrievable between Dark Awakening and Return of Optimus Prime? (That's just off the top of my head)

Because you think the accompanying manga was too silly/fanwanky? Well, the earliest manga technically do fit within the S2/TF:TM gap that so many cry out to be filled. Though I'll admit, Rumble and Frenzy's little dress-up stunt could be considered a legitimate deal-breaker for that particular stretch.

I've surely made some factual misstatements here that Sabreblade will post TFWiki links for in reply...and I welcome it, because of the point I'm trying to make with this rant. "Do an official G1 cartoon continuation" has been repeated a bazillion times throughout our fansites, and has yet to produce anything that fandom overall has accepted as such (AFAIK; again, any relevant links correcting me would be genuinely appreciated) To anyone reading this who disagrees with my argument, instead of repeating the call for the billion-and-first time, please use TFWiki to brush up on the G1 "continuations" we've already got, and explain what a "true continuation" would have to do better. Otherwise, clamoring for that elusive perfect G1 continuation will remain the stalest dead-end demand in transfandom.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to writing the definitive Season 4 of Beast Wars that EVERYONE will accept once Hasbro makes it official, because Beast Machines doesn't even count, right? (See, I brought my post full circle, so it wasn't just a tangent)

[Bumblevivisector]

Oh yeah, the video...um...maybe Megatron was scheduled to fight the Combaticons, but showed up early?

So early that the Constructicons were still building the necessary arena?

Whatever. Still mostly looking forward to this series.

[Sabrblade]

All I know is this...There are many fan made short films on sites like YouTube using all forms (cosplay, toys, animation etc..) based on the original series. I have not seen one for BW that uses anything original other than reused clips from the series itself, and basically nothing from any other TF continuity.

With all due respect to you as well, I think the reason there hasn't been as much of that for Beast Wars is that it told a much tighter story that didn't need as much improvement, introduce as many underused characters, or leave as many loose ends to enable or warrant that much fanwankery. What room there was has already been explored by official stories from 3H, FunPub, and IDW, after being run into the ground by the glut of late '90s prose fanfic. Ben Yee said his original idea for 'Descent Into Evil' was a G1/BW bridge story, until he remembered that just about every long-term TF fan with internet access in 1996 had already written that story, therefore no one would allow an official version to displace their personal canon for that particular time gap.

(DISCLAIMER: o.supreme, the rest of this isn't directed at you as much as an argument that needs to be put forth forth for counter-argument's sake; this general argument's been bugging me for a while)

And therein lies the reason that an "official G1 continuation" will never, ever work: It means something too different to every one of us. I'd most like to see more late season 3 stories, so Rodimus could get more respect as was his due, before being unfairly brushed aside by that arrogant zombie whose heroic death was also unfairly undone.

Which brings me to the reason I would actually LOVE to see Hasbro try this proposition: watching an official G1 continuation crash and burn is the only thing that might ever put this silly pipe-dream to rest. Cuz no matter how it turns out, where it tries to fit in, or what right notes it hits, I guarantee you, every geewunner who's been whining for this for three decades despite never actually rewatching the cartoon so dear to their memories in all that time would just scream their head off about how "Hasblow didn't do it right! And why not? It woulda' been so easy! This crap isn't even Transformers!" In fact, I need to hear some of that ASAP to get that glowing youtube review of the fangasmically awesome TF:TM Deviations comic out of my head. Please Hasbro, get your newly-acquired animation studio working on the G1 continuation!

Mods, if I've just reopened old wounds, I'll accept any stern warnings I'm due. But that had to be said. And had to be negative.

But if you think I'm actually wrong, then please explain just how this hypothetical continuation of the G1 cartoon would be quantifiably better than the one we already got. You see, any 'new season 4' argument simply presumes that the G1 anime don't count. Well, why not?

Because most western fans didn't see it when they were kids? Well, even though Hasbro hobbled the official Shout! release with dumb subtitle decisions, surely anyone who "needs" more G1 cartoons can have a look somewhere online, or could have at some point in the last decade.

Because accepting Headmasters bumps The Rebirth out of the timeline? While I do get the strength of nostalgia-blinders for those 3 eps as a symbol of what might have been, any actual demand for more G1 eps makes clinging to them instead of accepting three whole seasons pretty illogical.

Because of inconsistencies with the Sunbow cartoon? Well, are any of those greater than the U.S. material's internal inconsistencies? Like the Autobots losing their collective flying ability near the end of the third episode, the means by which new TFs are brought to life changing every season, and Optimus somehow becoming retrievable between Dark Awakening and Return of Optimus Prime? (That's just off the top of my head)

Because you think the accompanying manga was too silly/fanwanky? Well, the earliest manga technically do fit within the S2/TF:TM gap that so many cry out to be filled. Though I'll admit, Rumble and Frenzy's little dress-up stunt could be considered a legitimate deal-breaker for that particular stretch.

I've surely made some factual misstatements here that Sabreblade will post TFWiki links for in reply...and I welcome it, because of the point I'm trying to make with this rant. "Do an official G1 cartoon continuation" has been repeated a bazillion times throughout our fansites, and has yet to produce anything that fandom overall has accepted as such (AFAIK; again, any relevant links correcting me would be genuinely appreciated) To anyone reading this who disagrees with my argument, instead of repeating the call for the billion-and-first time, please use TFWiki to brush up on the G1 "continuations" we've already got, and explain what a "true continuation" would have to do better. Otherwise, clamoring for that elusive perfect G1 continuation will remain the stalest dead-end demand in transfandom.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to get back to writing the definitive Season 4 of Beast Wars that EVERYONE will accept once Hasbro makes it official, because Beast Machines doesn't even count, right? (See, I brought my post full circle, so it wasn't just a tangent)

Bravo!

To add a little bit more, the way I see it, what the desire for a Season 2.5/continuation/remake of the G1 cartoon really boils down to is that people just want to see and hear all the same characters that they know, love, and grew up with back on TV in new situations that allow them to show off their personalities all over again. What kind of new situations? Doesn't matter. They could be any random situations so long as the classic characters get to once again show off who they are and how they behave exactly like they did 30 years ago.

And while that's a nice feeling to have, it doesn't seem to be a feeling that Hasbro reciprocates all that strongly, as the most we've ever gotten out of that kind of feeling in the modern age are funny script readings at fan conventions and also the Transformers: Devastation game. Those are bones tossed at the specific fans who want to relive the sound and feeling of the G1 cartoon in a new format in the modern age, but that's all that they are: Bones.

The main course meals are reserved for the more non-"1980s G1" modern fiction (i.e. - the movies, the current cartoons, the IDW comics, etc.) because there's more contemporary brand prominence in those works.

Hasbro has consistently expressed a disinterest in reviving the 30-year-old original cartoon, and that seems to be because of how irrelevant it, in essence, has become to the brand after all this time. Does it still have some importance? Yes, of course, but more in a legacy sense rather than a contemporary sense. It is revered but not relevant, homaged but not honed in on. The brand still takes inspiration from it, but has chosen to steer its course on a path that needn't be fully tied down to everything that the cartoon did the past.

And frankly, if people really want to see a witty Transformers cartoon full of great characters showing off their personalities in fun situations that just seem to do whatever they want to do episode after episode, we already do have a modern TF cartoon like that right now, and which will soon overtake G1 as the longest-running TF cartoon of all time: Rescue Bots.

[ZeroWolf]

those are some impressive posts there guys.

Though one point, if it ever did happen and then subsequently fail, those who are asking for it, would simply keep asking for another cracking at it. To them, this idea can't possibly fail, it would just mean the staff working on it suck.

The g1 cartoon is many different things to many different people. To some it was a revelation from heaven, for others, just a better concept for a half hour toy commercial. I think it would be best if we just left it be in that special place on our hearts and memories.

[Optimizzy]

Personally, I don't think the cartoon/marvel era had the best possible story. I loved it, and it was defining, but not the best possible.
Beast Wars was good...but it's starting to become as overrated as G1 is.*
I do think I'd like to see an IDWverse cartoon. I really think IDW has filled in where Prime failed and made a definitive transformers universe.
However, I am perfectly contented to continue reading the comics. All I really want is toys based on the comic versions anyway.

To be honest, though I was excited by Prime (Frank Welker and Peter Cullen? yes.), I still think Transformers Animated had the best world-building for the cartoon media so far. It was fresh and different and really tried to play with the concepts. The animation style is an arguable point but they really did make good stories.




*overrated does not mean bad, just... overrated.

[Tyrannacon]

Very impressive posts actually. I appreciate the arguments put forth and yeah. I agree with them.

I watched G1 fairly recently (like 2 to 2 and a half years ago or so). I don't have any tight or nostalgia goggle visions of the original series because I was born in 84 and barely remember it. I do remember catching some of Season 3, but those memories are hazy. So what I watched recently was more or less my first time. Yeah, the shows are a shameless plug to sell toys. It didn't have much going into story telling quality like other and later shows.

I really didn't mind season 1 and 2 of G1 though as the episodes felt more memorable to me least. That may just be my own personal preference there. The original movie was decent for me as well even though it was more shameless selling of toys and took out a lot of favorite characters. I love Optimus and Megatron and both Cullen and Welker are the heart and soul of the brand in my eyes. The only reason why I'd want a official "Season 2.5" of the original cartoon is mostly for the fact I feel, officially at least, it's mostly unexplored. Fan stories and what not are fine and all though, and the fallout that any official "Season 2.5" would like have a lot of people upset about it not being what they envisioned or otherwise.

[MrBlack]

So...has anyone actually watched the first episode since it posted this morning?

I wasn't thrilled with it, but I'll give it a chance. On the plus side, the animation was smooth, and the voice was pretty well done. On the negative side:

I do not like Windblade's characterization. They basically turned her into Arcee-lite, which is not in keeping with either her IDW or RID personality. They also have to introduce another character to die in the first episode to give Windblade some additional angst, which is a pretty cheap trick, and seemingly unnecessary since there is enough in the dialogue between Windblade and Menasor to set up her story arc.

Computron jobs to Menasor this episode, but at least he survives. Way to sell the new toy. Menasor bites it. I guess that's what you get for not having toys on the shelf.

I couldn't help but feel that we are only getting half the story. The prelude videos tried to flesh things out, but the plot still seems rushed.

[ZeroWolf]

So...has anyone actually watched the first episode since it posted this morning?

I wasn't thrilled with it, but I'll give it a chance. On the plus side, the animation was smooth, and the voice was pretty well done. On the negative side:

I do not like Windblade's characterization. They basically turned her into Arcee-lite, which is not in keeping with either her IDW or RID personality. They also have to introduce another character to die in the first episode to give Windblade some additional angst, which is a pretty cheap trick, and seemingly unnecessary since there is enough in the dialogue between Windblade and Menasor to set up her story arc.

Computron jobs to Menasor this episode, but at least he survives. Way to sell the new toy. Menasor bites it. I guess that's what you get for not having toys on the shelf.

I couldn't help but feel that we are only getting half the story. The prelude videos tried to flesh things out, but the plot still seems rushed.

I wasn't aware this was even out yet, I'll try to watch tonight at some point.

[Kurona]

I didn't know it was out either. Is it on youtube?

[Sigma Magnus]

I didn't know it was out either. Is it on youtube?

Not yet. I hope they put it there eventually...

[o.supreme]

As for the original animated series continuation...I know I'm the minority in wanting it to be revived. But don't you guys worry, I think we all know its never going to happen, Hasbro would never take that chance. And I am dirt poor with no resources, so the vision of greatness I have can never happen. Guess we can put that to rest. It's never going to happen we all know that.

So...has anyone actually watched the first episode since it posted this morning?

Yup just watched it. one thing I will say. I was concerned about accessibility because prior to this, I had never even heard of go90. What sort of hurdles was I going to have to go through just to watch this. Thankfully, like Youtube, there were none, for the moment at least.

The animation was pretty good, taking into account the smaller scale & budget involved. Windblade is a Mary Sue (should have been destroyed as easily as her partner, combiners should not be taken down in such a way by a single bot no matter how *special* they are)the opening scene was pretty good. I can definitely see that scenario playing out. So for a 5 minute episode 1 I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars (the first have I would give a 5 out of 5 , and the second half 1 out of 5)

literally just type in go90.com. there are no signups or anything. its as easy as youtube

[Kurona]

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm glad they thought through everything when deciding on what to put this new series on.

[MrBlack]

As for the original animated series continuation...I know I'm the minority in wanting it to be revived. But don't you guys worry, I think we all know its never going to happen, Hasbro would never take that chance. And I am dirt poor with no resources, so the vision of greatness I have can never happen. Guess we can put that to rest. It's never going to happen we all know that.

So...has anyone actually watched the first episode since it posted this morning?

Yup just watched it. one thing I will say. I was concerned about accessibility because prior to this, I had never even heard of go90. What sort of hurdles was I going to have to go through just to watch this. Thankfully, like Youtube, there were none, for the moment at least.

The animation was pretty good, taking into account the smaller scale & budget involved. Windblade is a Mary Sue (should have been destroyed as easily as her partner, combiners should not be taken down in such a way by a single bot no matter how *special* they are)the opening scene was pretty good. I can definitely see that scenario playing out. So for a 5 minute episode 1 I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars (the first have I would give a 5 out of 5 , and the second half 1 out of 5)

literally just type in go90.com. there are no signups or anything. its as easy as youtube

Regardless of whether Windblade should be able to take down a combiner, that's not what a Mary Sue is.

[o.supreme]

Oh, that's wonderful. I'm glad they thought through everything when deciding on what to put this new series on.

man that sucks...in that case I hope they do post it on youtube so all fans can have access to it. I'm fairly certain they will as Machinima has their own Youtube channel...or some fan might copy it to there if nothing else

[o.supreme]

Regardless of whether Windblade should be able to take down a combiner, that's not what a Mary Sue is.

from Wikipedia

the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting

sounds about right to me.

[Tyrannacon]

Went ahead and watched the first episode (along with a few other videos I hadn't seen) on Go90. The first episode is a lot shorter than I would have liked, was kind of hoping for something closer to 10-15 minutes or so. I felt like I didn't have enough to judge exactly. So it will be nice to get more episodes to see and get a strong feeling for it.

That also sucks that people outside of the US can't watch it as it's not fair. Terrible. Makes me wanting to have a cranky old man rant.

[Bumblebee21]

Spoilerish


its

"what a nerd"
i cant stand menasors voice.
Who is Maxima and how can she transform with an arm missing?
When a combiner loses a limb dont they automatically decombine?

[Powermaster Swag]

How long are these episodes supposed to be? I just watched an episode on the Go90 app called "The Fall". Is this the first episode?

[Bumblebee21]

How long are these episodes supposed to be? I just watched an episode on the Go90 app called "The Fall". Is this the first episode?

yes