The Energon Pub

So. Should it be legal? Should it be banned? Should it be for medicinal purposes only?

What are your thoughts? While it isn't exactly an issue of burning importance, it is one that is going to have to be addressed by our government sooner rather than latter.

Are punishments for possession, using, and selling to harsh? Are they to lenient?

Personally, I think it should be legalized, with strict punishment for misuse, age restrictions, and heavily taxed. I think this not because I'm a fan or a user, I actually think you are rather retarded for using it at all, but because of the time and money wasted in keeping it illegal. This is time and money that our law enforcement and courts could use for much better things.


So, thoughts?

I think it should have similar restrictions to alcohol. No one under 21. No driving or operating heavy machinery. Don't do it if you're pregnant. Don't do it at work or school. etc etc etc.

I don't see this thread lasting long.

Savage wrote:I think it should have similar restrictions to alcohol. No one under 21. No driving or operating heavy machinery. Don't do it if you're pregnant. Don't do it at work or school. etc etc etc.

I don't see this thread lasting long.

Agreed on all points listed above.


The waste of American tax dollars pursuing marijuana sellers and users is just obscene! It is no more, or less, deadly than cigarettes and EXPONENTIALLY less deadly than alcohol, yet both remain legal for sale to adults and strictly prohibited for use by those under a certain age. Medicinal usage is being made legal in more and more US states, and had been decriminalized in many European countries for decades.

What are these HORRIBLE signs of marijuana usage??? You drink a bunch of Mountain Dew, play video games til your thumbs fall off, laugh at nothing til your face hurts, eat enormous quantities of mix-n-match junk food and pass out on your sofa! Ohmy, call an ambulance!

i agree this thread will not last long. but might as well post my opinion: GET RID OF IT ALL!!!!!! SHOOT IT IN TO SPACE!!!! KILL IT!!!!!!!

doubledealer25 wrote:i agree this thread will not last long. but might as well post my opinion: GET RID OF IT ALL!!!!!! SHOOT IT IN TO SPACE!!!! KILL IT!!!!!!!

Now that's just ignorant.

Well, if the government legalizes it, they could regulate it, and jack up the taxes like on tobacco.

We just passed a bill in Michigan to legalize medicinal marijuana. In the description, it said anyone who uses medicinal marijuana can tell anyone who lists off the bad sides of marijuana that they're wrong and why. God, I wish we had this in Health class.

doubledealer25 wrote:i agree this thread will not last long. but might as well post my opinion: GET RID OF IT ALL!!!!!! SHOOT IT IN TO SPACE!!!! KILL IT!!!!!!!

You're argument is flawed. How would one go about obtaining all marijuana on Earth to launch into space? The endeavor be highly costly, both having to find every place where marijuana is grown (A literally uncountable number), and to build a rocket and have an unmanned space flight in order to dispose of it.

sorry guys i hate the word, i hate the stuff, and did not mean to be rude

I have to resonate a hatred for the substance having lost a friend to it; no, they didn't die, but their addiction (mental, not physical) and subsequent lifestyle choices literally stole the friendship away. They were only available for smoking and that wasn't my choice.

The argument and comparison to alcohol and cigarettes is compelling except for the fact that I would not want to see its consumer base increase; legalization would cause the using community to grow and I see that being a detriment in the long run to any society just as legalized alcohol and nicotine abuse is a detriment.

For law enforcement concerns I do find it flat out disconcerting that it's common for marijuana users / dealers to receive less time than crack cocaine users/ dealers; our problem is more with the application of punishment (speaking from an American viewpoint) than what is / is not legalized. The whole "due process" that's guaranteed is rather borked when it comes to comparing the severity of drugs.

For medicinal purposes though, if monitored, it can be an effective treatment - but there's an emphasis here on being monitored. And lastly I will concede I've never heard of domestic issues from marijuana like I have from alcohol, nor have I heard of Mary Jane Cancer. But I still am against wholesale legalization of MJ.

Wingspan, you make a good argument, very well-executed.

doubledealer25 wrote:i agree this thread will not last long. but might as well post my opinion: GET RID OF IT ALL!!!!!! SHOOT IT IN TO SPACE!!!! KILL IT!!!!!!!

It will end with posts like that. If you can't post something rationa, then stay out of this thread. I'm tired of mature discussions getting sidetracked with stupid responses like this. Ironhidensh made a topic with a real logical post that has been responded to in a mature maner. And 50 million smiley faces don't help either.

So carry on and I will do my best to make sure these more serious topics stop getting locked because some of the less mature people can't stop spamming or making silly comments. And I am trying to get Philosopers Forum back opened, so we'll see what happends.

I am strongly against the use of marijuana as well, but I see legalizing it as a way of actually preventing usage.

I know that sounds crazy, but listen to me. People like to do stuff they know they should'nt be doing. Marijuana is illegal and thus is not allowed to be used. It has a "forbidden fruit" appeal to it that is very enticing to some.

If they were to legalize it and tax the crap out of it, there would defnitely be a rise in smoking for a time, but after a while it will lose it's appeal and not be used as much as it is now.

It's basic psychology, if you make the proverbial candy bowl easier to reach into, the less people will want to take from it.

Did that make any sense?

robofreak wrote:I am strongly against the use of marijuana as well, but I see legalizing it as a way of actually preventing usage.

I know that sounds crazy, but listen to me. People like to do stuff they know they should'nt be doing. Marijuana is illegal and thus is not allowed to be used. It has a "forbidden fruit" appeal to it that is very enticing to some.

If they were to legalize it and tax the crap out of it, there would defnitely be a rise in smoking for a time, but after a while it will lose it's appeal and not be used as much as it is now.

It's basic psychology, if you make the proverbial candy bowl easier to reach into, the less people will want to take from it.

Did that make any sense?

Yes it makes sense, plus the tax part is good too. I for one don't smoke (never even had a cigarette), but it seems less harmful then alcohol as long as it is not used as a gateway drug.

Personally, I see no problem with it.

People talk about how the addiction can completely claim a person. But it doesn't take a drug to cause people to get addicted to something and lose themselves, look at some of the extreme cases of world of warcraft.


Do I think it should be illegal? not at all

Do I think it should be legal? Yes for medical use and testing, it's ridiculous how much we're finding marijuana works to treat certain things, and yet governments want to ban it.

Making it legal would be an interesting to see. The pot dealers would be put out of business, save for those few who sell the really good @#$%.

I still hold to the fact the once something becomes legal and no longer a taboo, people actually use it like it should be used for.

Of course you will have those extreme cases, like you do with anything(again like World of Warcraft/Everquest, or alochol, smoking etc)

But those cases will be small when you look at how many people do these things responsibly.

Though, again, if it were legal, I wonder how the 15-22 years olds will react. The binge drinking usually happens to those who have just discovered the "club scene" entered college, it's something new and exciting for them, so they drink, and drink, and drink.

So how bad will this effect people if pot became legal?

Then they'll smoke and smoke and smoke.

Much like college kids have been doing for years.

Dealers?

You mean people don't grow their own in Indiana?

(Edit: Before anyone asks, I lived in Boulder for a year and grew up in Missouri, so I'm actually used to just seeing the stuff growing here and there. Highway medians, storm drains, etc. So the idea of having a 'pot dealer' just seems kind of funny. Like having a 'corn dealer' or a 'tomato dealer'.)

Personally it's not my thing, and i've heard all the arguments, that it's a harmless drug, or that it can severly **** your brain over (and i've seen that happen to people, but it's through an excessive amount of useage).

Should it be legalised? Probably. Though i'm not sure if it would free up time for cops. Especially if it was legallised it would be sold alongside cigarettes and taxed accordingly. Because they'd no doubt still have to go after those growing at home (who in a way are committing tax evasion).

So on the flip side, legalise it and don't commercialise it. Just let people grow it at home for personal use. But then no government would allow that because of all the precious tax money they'd miss out on.

Medicinal use, sure, legalise that. It's moderated use and no doubt the government gets a slice of it.

Burn wrote:They'd no doubt still have to go after those growing at home (who in a way are committing tax evasion).

Would they?

I know if you make Biodiesel at home you have to pay taxes on it, even if you don't sell it.

How does it work with Tobacco?

IMO, Marijuana and alcohol are the same thing. They are both essentially non addictive while both can destroy your life through over indulgance.....atleast Merijuana cannot kill you unlike alcohol poisioning.

Comparing either to crack cocaine is just silly. Crack will definately kill, definately ruin your life, etc.

Thus, my conclusion is to treat Marijunana and alcohol the same. Legalize them both or ban them both.

Caelus wrote:

Burn wrote:They'd no doubt still have to go after those growing at home (who in a way are committing tax evasion).

Would they?

I know if you make Biodiesel at home you have to pay taxes on it, even if you don't sell it.

How does it work with Tobacco?

The laws will no doubt vary from country to country, but here in Australia I can see them doing it.

There was a case a few years back of the tax office going after a tobacco farmer because he was selling tobacco on the side.

And they were bastards for doing it too as he was selling it on the side because the tobacco companies had cut back what they were buying from him due to declining sales brought on by the government's anti-smoking campaigns.

I know how the Australian Tax Office works, they'd go after these sorts of things.

The bio-diesel comparison isn't really accurate, as the taxes applied to tobacco are just extra cash in the budget whereas the tax on fuel helps pay the costs of maintaining the local and federal transportation infrastructure.

So I don't see tax enforcement of home grown Mary Jane, unless people start selling it, which would be a violation.

As far as my stance, I'm another one of those, "I don't use it, but think it should be legalized" people. I view it as a vice, just like alcohol. If used responsibly, one can have lots of fun and enjoy it. But if used to excess, just like alcohol and drunks, it can ruin a life.

I would much rather see Marijuana grown and sold in the US as an agricultural product rather than a black market import too. It would be another crop US farmers could diversify with when planning on what to plant in their fields. In a way, it would help the US economy, rather than exporting billions of dollars to the cartels and drug lords outside the country.

I would also rather focus on prosecuting the cocaine and other harder drug dealers and extending the penalties. I'd go so far as making dealing coke as a life sentence, death penalty if any of your buyers OD and die themselves. This would remove most of the dealers and cause those that remain to increase their prices to justify the potential risk of getting caught, resulting in consumers being unable to afford the drugs. Granted, some may resort to crime to get their fix, but I think the figures are by far exaggerated by those that wish to keep all drugs illegal.

GetterDragun wrote:

doubledealer25 wrote:i agree this thread will not last long. but might as well post my opinion: GET RID OF IT ALL!!!!!! SHOOT IT IN TO SPACE!!!! KILL IT!!!!!!!

It will end with posts like that. If you can't post something rationa, then stay out of this thread. I'm tired of mature discussions getting sidetracked with stupid responses like this. Ironhidensh made a topic with a real logical post that has been responded to in a mature maner. And 50 million smiley faces don't help either.

So carry on and I will do my best to make sure these more serious topics stop getting locked because some of the less mature people can't stop spamming or making silly comments. And I am trying to get Philosopers Forum back opened, so we'll see what happends.

sorry guys for all of my stupid **** that i said. i was out of line when i said that.

Bonger wrote:IMO, Marijuana and alcohol are the same thing. They are both essentially non addictive while both can destroy your life through over indulgance.....atleast Merijuana cannot kill you unlike alcohol poisioning.

Marijuana and alcohol are NOT the same. Alcohol IS physically addictive, while marijuana is purely a psychological thing. A person can easily quit weed without any adverse side-effects, while alcohol withdrawals can literally KILL a person! The only side-effects to weed withdrawal are purely psychosematic, a big fat mind-screw.

As for those that claim they lost friends to marijuana, that is not the substance's fault, that burden is squarely on the user! If a person is essentially mentally weak when they start smoking, they will only show such weakness in greater amounts after they get into it. It's the same with anyone when they become mentally addicted to anything, be it shopping, gambling, sex, or WoW. There is nothing in marijuana that is physically addictive. Medical fact.

I am for decriminalization myself. Save the prisons and the court systems for REAL criminals and drug dealers! As with any substance that alters perception, it should be regulated and should never be sold to minors, who generally lack the mental skills to deal with such things. It should be sold only to those 21 and older, IMO. By that age, one should show at least SOME inkling of personal and civic responsibility...they SHOULD anyways!

As some of my friends in law enforcement say "I don't care if you smoke pot till it comes out of your eyeballs, as long as you do it at home. That's YOUR business. However, if you bring your stoned ass out onto my streets, you make it MINE!"

It's all about moderation and personal responsibility.

I dont' use it nor have I ever. Maybe it should be legalized, but if it is, it should be regulated like cigarettes. Over here in some parts of Canada, it's illegal to smoke indoors in public places, which should be the same for marijunana.

Pyrostrata wrote:As for those that claim they lost friends to marijuana, that is not the substance's fault, that burden is squarely on the user!

This is the same as saying "Guns don't kill people; people kill people."

Me, Grimlock! wrote:I dont' use it nor have I ever. Maybe it should be legalized, but if it is, it should be regulated like cigarettes. Over here in some parts of Canada, it's illegal to smoke indoors in public places, which should be the same for marijunana.

Your the first person to man-up and mention the problem of second hand smoke. The same is true of parts of the use, it's illegal to smoke in extablishments that serve food here in my part of Colorado, so I doubt I'd feel any direct effects of marijuana legalization until I went home to Missouri, when I'd have to tolerate that ungodly stench half the time I went out to eat.

Now, even assuming that any such legalization effort would follow or accompany an overdue ban on enclosed public area smoking, what about marijuana smoking at home? I already take a dim view of parents smoking tobacco in an enclosed space with their children, I can't say I find the idea of smoking marijuana in that situation any more tolerable.

robofreak wrote:I am strongly against the use of marijuana as well, but I see legalizing it as a way of actually preventing usage.

I know that sounds crazy, but listen to me. People like to do stuff they know they should'nt be doing. Marijuana is illegal and thus is not allowed to be used. It has a "forbidden fruit" appeal to it that is very enticing to some.

If they were to legalize it and tax the crap out of it, there would defnitely be a rise in smoking for a time, but after a while it will lose it's appeal and not be used as much as it is now.

It's basic psychology, if you make the proverbial candy bowl easier to reach into, the less people will want to take from it.

Did that make any sense?

I think you're over-crediting the power of Reactance (the social psychological principle you're referring to), and either way, it would continue to be an issue so long as smoking is considered a status offense for minors, or parents attempt to restrict their children's usage.

And of course, you're forgetting to consider the large number of those already wanting to use it right now who obey the law.

And more severely, you're forgetting the large number of people that will start using it once the marketing teams at Camel, Marlboro, etc. are allowed to promote it - after all, those in the tobacco industry are the ones in a position to diversify into growing, harvesting, collecting, rolling, marketing, and distributing pot. They already have the infrastructure to do it. As hippy as they might be, Celestial Seasonings won't be the ones selling marijuana at Wal-Mart.

Leeee-ee-eegaliiizzzzzze it...

and we will advertissssssseeee it.

I don't use, for the record.

However, the truth is that the incarceration, process, and enforcement efforts in regards to marijuna are far too costly.

To me, the name of the game is money. Reduce governmental costs by legalizing it and then raise revenue through taxation.