The Energon Pub

Nightwatcher wrote:I don't see what all the hubbub is about. MIB does not mean complete except for the item being unsealed. It means the toy is mint... And it's in the box. How people would think that means complete I'm unsure.

Exactly. Mint refers to the condition, it is not an inventory telling you the item is complete.

Also, MIB does not mean the box is also mint. Furthermore, one could have a toy that is MISB and still the box could not be in mint (i.e., the corners of the box could be slightly worn, but because the box is sealed the toy inside will be pristine and perfect).

The M (mint) refers to what's in the box, otherwise it would be MIMB or MIMSB, as mentioned earlier.

I have a great idea to put all of this to rest! I'm gonna take all of my TF boxes, US, Japanese and international, fill them with mints and sell them all MIB starting for a penny with reasonable shipping and we'll see how long it takes eBay to ban my ass!
"Oh, I meant Mint(s) in Box, you see... You shouldn't be so mad, you have fresh breath! And Negative feedback for asking!"

zodconvoy wrote:I have a great idea to put all of this to rest! I'm gonna take all of my TF boxes, US, Japanese and international, fill them with mints and sell them all MIB starting for a penny with reasonable shipping and we'll see how long it takes eBay to ban my ass!
"Oh, I meant Mint(s) in Box, you see... You shouldn't be so mad, you have fresh breath! And Negative feedback for asking!"

LMFAO...i love it.

Gutter Bunny wrote:

zodconvoy wrote:I have a great idea to put all of this to rest! I'm gonna take all of my TF boxes, US, Japanese and international, fill them with mints and sell them all MIB starting for a penny with reasonable shipping and we'll see how long it takes eBay to ban my ass!
"Oh, I meant Mint(s) in Box, you see... You shouldn't be so mad, you have fresh breath! And Negative feedback for asking!"

LMFAO...i love it.

Yeah, but it won't be long before all kinds of KO's start showing up on e-bay...first they'll just be Tic Tacs in a box, and then those crappy pre-wrapped restaurant mints...

You can tell it's a Zod Convoy oririnal because only I will use guanuine Altoid mints, not cheap "Tic Tacs!"

I have no idea what MIB means but in the seller's defense I feel that him saying that everything included are in the photos does take him off the hook. And since MIB seems to be subjective, even in this thread, it's hard to say if the seller was trying to be deceptive. Unless the seller is a store, I feel that it's a risk to buy off eBay anyway. Even if you buy an item MISB, it could have missing parts from the factory.

Anybody want to buy a Brack Battle COnvoy from Car Robots box full of 20 pounds of Altoids (est.) for $250?
FREE SHIPPING!!!! Buy it now, don't miss out! MsIB! MsIB!

Omega-1 wrote:Even if you buy an item MISB, it could have missing parts from the factory.

Good point. How does one resolve that situation? I mean, if it's an online store selling it, that would be easy, they'd follow normal procedure (return to supplier, etc.) but what would one do if one purchased from an individual seller an MISB item that was incomplete from the factory?

If the product is listed as MiB it should have everything considered product in it. If it is missing something due to factory error, it should be listed as such. Anything less constitutes fraud (depending on state or local statutes.) To knowingly sell defective merchandise is illegal. If it's been opened, the seller knows what is missing and has to state that before sale of the item. The key wording is "knowingly". That's what protects retailers and manufacturers because they don't knowingly sell incomplete or defective products. And that's why simply adding one letter, changing Mint to Mints is perfectly legal and within the letter of the law. Buyer beware doesn't apply when you're being flat out lied to. That's why things like lemon laws exist for used cars. The real question isn't "is it right" or even "is it legal", it's "is it worth the time, money and effort to sue the Mr. Slime Ball to get the relatively small amount of money for my Rodimus out of him?" No, not really. And that's why so many sellers in the world are ass holes.

MIB to me means that the figure is in C9 condition with its original packaging. It doesn't necessarily mean that it comes with original inserts, trays etc unless specified

MIB means everything is included. Like someone said on page 1 - MIB is just like MISB except the box is opened.

If the item doesn't come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

If the item is in the box but it is missing parts then it is Incomplete.





Edited for typo.

Stormrider wrote:If the item does come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

So, how would you describe a toy that is in perfect condition but isn't in a box?

The way I see it is:

MIMSB = C9+ toy in sealed C9+ box. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIMB = C9+ toy in C9+ box. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

MISB = C9+ toy in sealed box. Box of any grade as long as it is sealed. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIB = C9+ toy in box. Box of any grade. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

LOOSE MINT COMPLETE (or 100%) = C9+ toy with all accessories, weapons that are part of the toy. This does not include paperwork.

LOOSE MINT = C9+ toy. Not necessarily complete.

LOOSE COMPLETE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description. Comes with all weapons, accessories but not necessarily paperwork.

LOOSE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description.

Using this framework I know exactly what I'm getting, which is why I've never been disappointed.

Leonardo wrote:

Stormrider wrote:If the item does come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

So, how would you describe a toy that is in perfect condition but isn't in a box?

Oops. Sorry for the typo. I meant to say:

If the item doesn't come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

Stormrider wrote:

Leonardo wrote:

Stormrider wrote:If the item does come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

So, how would you describe a toy that is in perfect condition but isn't in a box?

Oops. Sorry for the typo. I meant to say:

If the item doesn't come in a box but is in perfect condition it is Loose-Mint.

Ah, understood!

Something which does annoy me about Ebay sellers is when they write "L@@K" as if I had no intention of doing so, or when they type "*MEGATRON OPTIMUS!!!*" in listing titles that have really nothing to do with either Megatron or Optimus.

Oh god, I hate those megatron optimus listings.

There is one thing that instantly sends up red flags for me on ebay. That is wghen they say "as pictured." Right there, you know there is a good chance something is busted, in my personal exp.

Especially if there's only one picture that conveniently hides the damaged part.

I'm just getting really annoyed by ebay stores in general. Besides the shady grading and descriptions, the fact that a lot have resorted to parting out complete figures to try and squeeze an extra buck out bugs the hell out of me.

I know. I'm considering restricting all my business (snort!) to online stores and Carbombya.

Same here. To this day, Carbomya buys for me have arrived in better condition that described. Thats never happenned with me on ebay.

That's because here we deal, for the most part, with fellow enthusiasts who appreciate what it's like to be cheated. There aren't as many scalpers or scammers here.

Leonardo wrote:

Omega-1 wrote:Even if you buy an item MISB, it could have missing parts from the factory.

Good point. How does one resolve that situation? I mean, if it's an online store selling it, that would be easy, they'd follow normal procedure (return to supplier, etc.) but what would one do if one purchased from an individual seller an MISB item that was incomplete from the factory?

The one person above said most people would refund/exchange the figure but I don't know about that. You are now forced to sell the figure MIB incomplete if you give a refund. If the figure is broken from factory, you probably won't even be able to sell it. I think I would try to get a refund or at least a discount but I'm not sure if the seller would be responsible for a factory error.

I really don't understand all this confusion.

MISB means (it seems without dispute) that item is exactly as if was, once it left the factory. The contents are in the box and the factory tape has not been broken.

The key with MISB is MINT IN Sealed Box. The MINT here means Tray, insert, paper work, toy, and accessories are MINT. Nothing is missing or removed, factory errors aside.

Why then, do we dispute this fact if the box has been opened?

Leonardo says,

MIMSB = C9+ toy in sealed C9+ box. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIMB = C9+ toy in C9+ box. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

MISB = C9+ toy in sealed box. Box of any grade as long as it is sealed. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIB = C9+ toy in box. Box of any grade. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

LOOSE MINT COMPLETE (or 100%) = C9+ toy with all accessories, weapons that are part of the toy. This does not include paperwork.

LOOSE MINT = C9+ toy. Not necessarily complete.

LOOSE COMPLETE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description. Comes with all weapons, accessories but not necessarily paperwork.

LOOSE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description.

I have some questions regarding this grading scale.

1) MIMB = C9+ toy in C9+ box. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

What is MINT about this, obviously the toy is not MINT and maybe the box is Mint. Seems like a cop out to me. You state that, "Not necessarily complete..." There is nothing MINT about that. You should list this as Loose toy, and then rate the toy C9 and down.

2) MIB = C9+ toy in box. Box of any grade. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

Again, what is MINT about this? There is a toy but nothing else, that is not mint to the factory, see reason above.

3) LOOSE MINT COMPLETE (or 100%) = C9+ toy with all accessories, weapons that are part of the toy. This does not include paperwork.

Again, what is MINT about this? Missing the parts that came in a Mint condition, see above.

4) LOOSE MINT = C9+ toy. Not necessarily complete.

Come on man, What is MINT if it is missing stuff?

5) LOOSE COMPLETE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description. Comes with all weapons, accessories but not necessarily paperwork.

Didja miss the word COMPLETE?

And for everyone's records: From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: (4)mint
Function: adjective
: unmarred as if fresh from a mint

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:I really don't understand all this confusion.

MISB means (it seems without dispute) that item is exactly as if was, once it left the factory. The contents are in the box and the factory tape has not been broken.

The key with MISB is MINT IN Sealed Box. The MINT here means Tray, insert, paper work, toy, and accessories are MINT. Nothing is missing or removed, factory errors aside.

Why then, do we dispute this fact if the box has been opened?

Leonardo says,

MIMSB = C9+ toy in sealed C9+ box. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIMB = C9+ toy in C9+ box. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

MISB = C9+ toy in sealed box. Box of any grade as long as it is sealed. Should be complete UNLESS there was a factory error. Most people would refund/exchange such an item.

MIB = C9+ toy in box. Box of any grade. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

LOOSE MINT COMPLETE (or 100%) = C9+ toy with all accessories, weapons that are part of the toy. This does not include paperwork.

LOOSE MINT = C9+ toy. Not necessarily complete.

LOOSE COMPLETE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description. Comes with all weapons, accessories but not necessarily paperwork.

LOOSE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description.

I have some questions regarding this grading scale.

1) MIMB = C9+ toy in C9+ box. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

What is MINT about this, obviously the toy is not MINT and maybe the box is Mint. Seems like a cop out to me. You state that, "Not necessarily complete..." There is nothing MINT about that. You should list this as Loose toy, and then rate the toy C9 and down.

2) MIB = C9+ toy in box. Box of any grade. Not necessarily complete (i.e., may not have all missiles, paper work, box trays/inserts).

Again, what is MINT about this? There is a toy but nothing else, that is not mint to the factory, see reason above.

3) LOOSE MINT COMPLETE (or 100%) = C9+ toy with all accessories, weapons that are part of the toy. This does not include paperwork.

Again, what is MINT about this? Missing the parts that came in a Mint condition, see above.

4) LOOSE MINT = C9+ toy. Not necessarily complete.

Come on man, What is MINT if it is missing stuff?

5) LOOSE COMPLETE = Toy of any grade. Grade defined by pictures or in description. Comes with all weapons, accessories but not necessarily paperwork.

Didja miss the word COMPLETE?

And for everyone's records: From Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: (4)mint
Function: adjective
: unmarred as if fresh from a mint

You keep asking what is mint about various things that are lacking certain items, but you're missing my point entirely. Mint, as in the definition you have listed, does not mean complete. Mint refers to the quality or condition.

For example, one could sell a mint-condition necklace, but I wouldn't argue such a necklace wasn't mint if it didn't come with the matching earrings.

As for the "complete" aspect, that's entirely subjective (as all of this is), but suffice to say for my purposes a complete toy does not have to include all the paperwork. Things like bio cards are not, as far as I'm concerned, part of the toy. They're extras.

Ahh, I see where you are going...

Same example, as a set.

You buy your mom a nice art deco jewelry set; Necklace, earrings, broach, bracelet, and limited edition paperwork. Comes in a nice decorative box, sealed.

If it was not opened, you could sell it as MISB.

If it has been opened, MIB.

If it is missing the earrings & Paperwork, what now? MIB*
*with the exception of the earrings & Paperwork?!?

These are conditions that you are adding to the MIB aspect. The items are no longer MINT if the WHOLE package is missing anything.

If a jeweler tried to get away with this, there would be H&ll to pay. Why should we settle for anything less, all because these are toys.

...and it's not the price point. Some Japanese TF toys go for thousands.

I am applying conditions, in a sense. For example, if a seller had a G1 Jazz that was of C9 quality, with no chrome wear, no sticker wear (or no stickers applied), no paint chips, no scratches, dents, markings, had tight joints, etc., yet was missing one missile but did have the box and all paperwork, I would have no qualms with the seller calling it MIB if they mentioned, either in the description or when asked, that the item was missing said piece.

The other thing to remember is that the criteria I set out is not intended to be gospel. As I said, it's the way I see it, which means it's a personal guide I use as a buyer to give me a rough idea of what to expect. If I want a complete item, I only bid on items that specify they are complete (preferably with all those items in the picture). If there's any doubt about what is written in the description, I email the seller and enquire. I imagine that is what most discerning Ebayers do. But my guide is by no means definitive. It is just the way I see it. Maybe the AFA or some similar body has a more rigid criteria.

I do have a question, though: if one takes MIB to include everything, including the plastic insert tray as stated in the initial post, where does one draw the line? For example, would a so-called MIB Cybertron toy have to include all the twist ties for it to be MIB?