The Energon Pub

My son brought home a CD of thiers a few weeks ago. I read through the words of one of their songs and it seemed alright to me. There was no swearing or violent material. So I am on my parenting message board and we get to talking about music our kids listen to. THe other parents start warning me about that band. They said the lyrics are very dark and violent. Well I knew there were some younger people on this board who may know better then a bunch of parents of teenagers.How are the lyrics? He has the Year Zero CD. I red through the first song and another further in. I did not see anything at the time but I did not read every song. I do not want to get him mad if I dont have to. I like to pick my battles.

Depends on which album, I believe.

They're lyrics aren't like "Yeah kill everyone", though they do get a bit.. verbal sometimes. I wouldn't say they would get many people doing anything they shouldn't, and really, if your child is smart enough, there's nothing to worry about. Can I ask how old he is? If he's mid-teens, I wouldn't worry too much. I mean as long as a person understands that lyrics are expression (of the artist) not imperatives, music becomes less of a worry. If you know he knows that, s'all good. If you're worried about strong lyrics outright, then its occasional in NIN material. Heck, some tracks are just instrumental.
All depends on the maturity of the listner. I think that goes for ALL morraly questionable material. Films, games, music.

I don't own asny CD's, but have listened to them. My only caution is that some songs get crazy from the start such as the titled "I wanna f*** you like an animal"
But if you think he can handle it, and knows it's only music, he should be fine.
But do be careful with their songs.

As Meverix and Sherade said, it all comes down to how old your son is and how well he can distinguish fatasy from reality. Some of his albums have very dark undertones (The Downward Spiral in particular) so you might want to read through these first.

http://www.darklyrics.com/n/nineinchnails.html

I was in 7th grade when I started to listen to NIN. My mother wasn't too thrilled with it, but we sat down and had a little chat about it and came to an understanding. And lets face it, in this day and age there is a lot of stuff out there that is MUCH more worse that he could be listening to.

Their most famous mainstream song is Closer, which contains the chorus "I wanna f....k you like an animal".

Their song Terrible Lie is an indictment against religion.


What you should ask on the parenting board is how religious the parents are who are warning you about it. Because from a non-Christian standpoint, NIN is harmless for the most part.

As for Closer, I recommend that you not view that lyric as a support for rape, because it is not. It is expressing nothing more than the primal sexual urge of the normal male. Deep down, men want to have sex with attractive women, but that's not always possible or wise. It's refreshing to hear music, or read something, that puts our desires and thoughts so bluntly.

It's been my experience that people who are kept from something will only want it more. I think right now what you should do is not worry too much about the music. Pick your battles indeed. If you make the music a bone of contention based on your personal ideology, then you will only invite problems. Do not give him something to rebel against.

It's a common misconception that parents seem to have that something their child watches or listens to is what makes them do something. When I was 15, I got flack from my mother for playing Doom. When I was a child, I was not allowed to watch GI Joe. When I was 25 and came home from hanging out with a guy from work and the news that we'd been shooting a gun in the woods, she got very upset.

She hated that I was playing Doom because it was so violent, and she would not have been pleased to know that it was the violence that I liked most about it, even though I claim it was the exploring and the design, which was actually second. She wanted to keep me from things that she found offensive in hopes that I would grow up to be the person she wanted me to be.

What she didn't realize is that I actually abhor violence. I hate most horror movies, and I hate action movies that talk about the glory of battle and warfare. Doom was a cartoon to me. A safe outlet for primal instincts.

That's what NIN is to a lot of people too. Two other bands you might want to watch out for are GWAR and Cannibal Corpse. GWAR has over the top stage theatrics, the least of which includes spraying fake blood all over the audience. Cannibal Corpse is indeed the parental nightmare that it sounds like, but the same thing applies to that as to Doom for me when I was your son's age. The people in these bands are not murderers, and they do not think their fans should go out and kill people. Cannibal Corpse's cover artwork and song content is enough to scare more than concerned parents, and I'm willing to bet that your son knows about them. But they are very different musically than NIN and your son might just think they're really lame like I do. I'm telling you about them because they are just like Doom. A safe outlet. And NIN is not even close to that band in terms of nastiness. Not even close.

Also, NIN has a lot of very thought provoking and symbolic lyrics, and lots of people I know who listen to them are very intelligent people.

So I'm asking you again, please do not start something over your son with his music. It's not a warning sign of anything. If he was torturing small animals, that is a warning sign. At his age, you are not raising him as much as the culture around him is raising him. But what you can still do, what you can always do, is provide a loving home in which he feels welcome and accepted. If you try to control his interests, based on your own personal ideology, and from your outside perspective of his culture and generation, you are only giving him something to rebel against.

Thank you for your replies. Jack will be 16 in a few months so he is not a young teen.
A lot of the other parents on this message board are religious so that is another reason I came here. I wanted an opinion of people who actually heard the music.

Dark Zarak wrote:



It's been my experience that people who are kept from something will only want it more. I think right now what you should do is not worry too much about the music. Pick your battles indeed. If you make the music a bone of contention based on your personal ideology, then you will only invite problems. Do not give him something to rebel against.

It's a common misconception that parents seem to have that something their child watches or listens to is what makes them do something. When I was 15, I got flack from my mother for playing Doom. When I was a child, I was not allowed to watch GI Joe. When I was 25 and came home from hanging out with a guy from work and the news that we'd been shooting a gun in the woods, she got very upset.

I had an over the top controlling mom who wanted to control what I liked and did all the time. I not only did what I wanted anyway but the as soon as I found a way out of that house I took it. My mom and I get along fine now but we didn't when I was a kid. I do not want that for Jack so I know what you are talking about.

Jack really gets into the the SOCOM and Medal of Honor video games plus the racing one what is that name, I think it is Need For Speed. Even though SOCOM is rated M I do not think it is very bad. I see worse on Law and Order.
Jack is the real aggressive type. He does not get into fights or anything but his main outlet is sports. He says he loves football so much because he can ram other players as hard as he wants and it feels good. He came home one day and said it was so much fun being encouraged to do things in football that would get him arrested out in the street.
Jack and his dad go shooting all the time. There is an awesome shooting range not far from here. Of course hunting is big here as well as fishing so shooting out in the woods would be considered normal here.

Sherade wrote:the start such as the titled "I wanna f*** you like an animal"

But do be careful with their songs.

I did not see anything like that in the album. I did read some more of the songs and had Jack read them as well. By the look on his face I do not think he was listening to the words. I told him I would let him keep the CD but do not buy any more from that group. His favorite group is Metallica anyway so it is not a big deal to him anyways. It is strange though that his favorite group was mine when I was that age. Same favorite song too.

I'd say, as long as you talk to him a lot, and he seems to be a normal, level-headed kid, he'll stay that way. I like to listen to stuff like Meshuggah, Dimmu Dorgir, Behemoth, and other stuff that would make some people's blood curdle, but I've turned out good for the most part. Mostly, it's just a way to vent anger or get pumped, depending. People can generally distinguish reality well enough.

EDIT: Ya, I'm assuming he's between 12 and 13, because that's how it all starts with music...

you'll generally give way a lot in the next few years, especially after he discovers Limewire.

Limewire??? Oh well I am sure I will find out soon enough. We are finally getting high speed next week. Jack is so excited he can barely stand it.

Missourisnowflakes wrote:Limewire??? Oh well I am sure I will find out soon enough. We are finally getting high speed next week. Jack is so excited he can barely stand it.

Ha, his names Jack? Same here. Cept I'm, you know, 17.

Anyway, high speed internet? Well you can just about forget moderating what he's listening to. Unless you monitor what goes on on your computer (or his one, if he has his own) you wont know too much about what he's downloading. How you want to act on that, well, thats up to you. Personally, if you've got a lot of faith in his judgement, I'd let him do what he likes and hopes that if he messes up, he'll learn from it. But that's just me.

He has a pretty good head on his shoulders. Well as much as a teenager can have anyways. I trust his judgement enough that I check into what he is doing about once a month. I tell ya what really scared him was when I kept telling him to keep personal information private on his myspace page. I kept catching him telling everything about himself. He went through my page and added all of my friends to his. I got a personal message from this mom on a baby's and toddlers message board. She said that she was not trying to get Jack into trouble or anything but by reading his myspace she knew where he lived what school he went to and who is girlfriend was. I just let him read that pm for himself. It really got him considering neither of us really knew this other girl. He has since pulled all personal information off of his page. I think he finally learned that lesson.

Heh. Honestly that tells a person nothing. If you go on my myspace you can see where I live, where I work, my real first name, where I went to school and what I look like. But in the realm of identity theft, those things mean nothing.

Considering what's on regular t.v. the news ect. and on the radio nowadays NIN to me is just fine. I'm sure your a good parent raising a fine kid and should be ok if he listens NIN. I've been listening to them for god knows how long and i'm pretty normal. Ok maybe a little nuts!

I like NIN. Have for years. Favorite song is Star@@@ers.
Just remember there is worse music out there, like Country.
And Gwar isn't that bad. It's just a little theatrical.
Who doesn't love a crack fueled bat?Huh?Huh??

Missourisnowflakes wrote:Jack really gets into the the SOCOM and Medal of Honor video games plus the racing one what is that name, I think it is Need For Speed. Even though SOCOM is rated M I do not think it is very bad. I see worse on Law and Order.

See, I'd have a problem with that, but that's me, and I wouldn't try to keep him from it. Games like that take real wars and make them fun. That to me is way more hideous than any kind of horror/monster/hell/satanic shooting game out there. But like I said, that's me, and if I had a son who was into that sort of game, then I would expose him to stuff like Jacob's Ladder and Paradise Now and other movies about war and terrorism from a much less "propaganda" viewpoint, just to let him know what's really happening out there, and that a game is just a game.

And Need for Speed is awesome.

Missourisnowflakes wrote:Jack is the real aggressive type. He does not get into fights or anything but his main outlet is sports. He says he loves football so much because he can ram other players as hard as he wants and it feels good. He came home one day and said it was so much fun being encouraged to do things in football that would get him arrested out in the street.

That's pretty classic. It sounds to me like he's not in any danger at all of going wrong. That's exactly the kind of thing I had with Doom.

Missourisnowflakes wrote:His favorite group is Metallica anyway so it is not a big deal to him anyways. It is strange though that his favorite group was mine when I was that age. Same favorite song too.

Nice. My mom's favorite music is jazz like Cherry Poppin' Daddies and Manhattan Transfer. I can't stand that stuff.

What is this favorite song of you two?

While I wouldn't give a NIN cd to a 12 year old, a 16 year old, in my opinion, is mature enough to understand that it's just music and enjoy it for what it is. Trust me, if he's 16, he's seen worse on TV or in R-rated movies than anything NIN can throw at him.

Dark Zarak wrote:And Need for Speed is awesome.




What is this favorite song of you two?

Jack loves that game. He plays that one the most.

The fvorite song is Enter Sandman. Oh what was just too funny was when he was listening to one of his ringtones on his phone. I asked him who was getting the Nirvana ringtone and he spun around and said I have been trying to remember the name of this band all day. It is wierd how kids are still listening to what I listened to as a teenager. My moms music was on the oldies station by the time I became a teenager.