The Energon Pub

I was just thinking to myself and couldnt come to an answer. I should know this, but I have no clue. In what year does Beast Machines take place on Cybertron?

Well Beast Wars takes place three hundred years after G1. So that would be around 2305 and the Beast Wars were only a couple years so Beast Machines weren't that far off.

Alright, cool thanks, makes sense now.

Actually, 2 more question, instead of making a new thread, I'm asking myself all these questions lol...

What is the lifespan of a transformer? I mean, can they live forever as long as no one extinguishes their spark? Because I was thinking Ravage in Beast Wars, so obviously its a long life span.

And regarding protoforms, how do they actually first come to be, what exactly gives birth to them?

A3 (Alpha Trion) existed for 11 million years before he 'died' . See the ep Forever is a Long Time Coming.
And Shockwave was randomly sitting around on Cybertron for 9 million years when the others were in Stasis Lock on the Ark. So I guess they could go on forever if noone kills them and they keep their bodies maintained.

As for the Protoforms, I guess the Spark is placed in a stasis pod that gets filled with some kind of liquid metal (similar to the T-1000) and then gets encoded with whatever genetic material they want to use for the beast mode. And if they want to be a vehicle, though no protoform was turned into a vehicle, they use blueprints and the liquid metal simply solidifies into the correct form.

Since they're mechanical life forms, a transformer can live indefinately so long as its body is maintained & its spark (or laser core, before Raymond T. gets here) remains intact.

As for how a protoform is created... Well we know how they choose an alt mode, but as far as I know the actual creation has never been shown. Insurgents idea seems plausible though, I can see them being manufactured like that.

Protoforms are a "larval stage" of a Transformer (in BW/BM continuity). They aren't created first and then the TF, but the TF existed and then their spark is placed into a protoform and stasis pod to allow for safer passage of said spark. This protects them during the voyage on the Axalon and, in Rampage's case, contains them from doing damage.

As far as the actual time of BM, we don't actually know, but I assume that it was on Cybertron way before the events of BW and maybe even G1. The pod that the Maximals were flying in was in mid-flight through the transwarp tunnel when Megatron broke free and caused them to come out of transwarp. One thing is for certain, they didn't make it back to their own time. This might explain also why so many people claim to see Soundwave and Prowl and other G1 TFs in the backgrounds of BM and why Obsidian and Strika are there when it is stated that they were two of the best Cybertronian generals and fought before the "Great War" (i.e. G1).

Alas, if this is true, then the ending to BM with the whole planet becoming technoorganic causes a paradox, but it isn't like that means what I am saying isn't true since BM had plenty other plotholes and paradoxes in it.

Thanks! I always figured Beast Machines took place after G1 and still do, being maximals were existing already, such as Nightscream. It sure does open a lot of questions. I watched TF a bit as a kid, but Beast Wars is really where I sparked and got into it and I have the Transformers movie too. After I finally saw the Transformers movie, a lot more started to make sense in Beast Wars than it did before.

Greed wrote:Well Beast Wars takes place three hundred years after G1. So that would be around 2305 and the Beast Wars were only a couple years so Beast Machines weren't that far off.

Well, that depends on what happened the second time they used the Transwarp drive. I mean, the first time it took them ~3 million years into the past. Going back...?

We know they returned some 'time' after they left, as there were no paradoxes and Nightscream mentions upgrades that had occurred after the BW crew left and before Megatron conquered Cybertron.

Other than that we can't be certain however. For all we know they'd been gone a hundred years.

In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

Insurgent wrote:In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

Or

Megs just wound up back on Cybertron anytime from 1 picosecond to a year after he stole the Golden disk and left for Earth. Then there isn't any paradox.

[And I still think it's a major assumption that the Maximals arrived on Cybertron exactly when they meant to.]

Caelus wrote:

Insurgent wrote:In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

Or

Megs just wound up back on Cybertron anytime from 1 picosecond to a year after he stole the Golden disk and left for Earth. Then there isn't any paradox.

[And I still think it's a major assumption that the Maximals arrived on Cybertron exactly when they meant to.]

Insurgent wrote:In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

my head hurts...

Insurgent wrote:In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

My head... I think it's gonna...

I've always HATED TV shows, computer games ect. that involve time travel & this is why, it usually doesn't make sense to people that actually think about it instead of watching it with brain off.

I’m with the school of thought that says Megs got to Cybertron not too lng after he left, and the Maximals got there years later. After all, in order to take over Cybertron by the time Op and them got back, it would take years, and storywise, it would allow the events of BW to happen.

Uncrazzimatic wrote:

Insurgent wrote:In the ep where they explain how Megs beat them back, they say Megs broke free from the ship and fell out of transwarp into some time well before the BW left Cybertron. The rest of the Maximals continued on and arrived when they were meant to. Assuming they set the temporal coordinates to arrive when/just after they left, BM would take place 300 years after G1.

Of course, this would also create a paradox as Megs would have conquered Cybertron before he stole the Golden Disk and left to be pursued by the Axalon. So Megs basically wiped out everything in one hell of a timestorm without ever realising it. The sparks of the BW would be consumed by Megs virus, there would actually be 2 megs in this time (one who was planning to steal the Golden disk, and the one who was defeated in BW and created the techno virus), Primal wouldn't be able to pursue Megs at the start of BW because him and his crew would be captured with the rest of Cybertron, which would mean Megs couldn't go back in time to disrupt everything, so the BW did happen... and so forth (got a headache yet? ).

Either BM took place in a disrupted alternate reality, or Megs completely destroyed the fabric of the space time continuum ala Back to the Future pt2. Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

And to think, if the Maximals had put Megs inside the ship when they captured him, none of this would have happened.

My head... I think it's gonna...

I've always HATED TV shows, computer games ect. that involve time travel & this is why, it usually doesn't make sense to people that actually think about it instead of watching it with brain off.

or, megatron got back after he stole the discs, built an drone/house servent empire, got the drones in everyones homes akin to i robot, then activated the drones primary programming and infected everyone since everyone would of had a complimentary one.

Wow, this wasn't quite a quick to the point clear cut answer after all. This has gotten confusing ha. And here I thought I was like the only one that wasn’t exactly sure, but alas, I'm not the only ones whos head slightly hurts and in a daze. Its true, i think too much abut thing and over analyze.

Interesting none the less. I guess its up to us to decide.

Surely, there shouldn't be a paradox at all.

1. BW Megatron steals the Golden Disk and departs aboard the "Darksyde".
2. BW Maximals pursue and we have the events of the first two episodes of BW.
3. BW seasons 1 - 3.
4. The Maximals attempt to take BW Megatron back to Cybertron / return home.
5. BW Megatron escapes and arrives on Cybertron after he stole the Golden Disk but prior to the Maximals' homecoming.
6. BW Megatron becomes BM Megatron by taking over the planet using his virus.
7. The BW Maximals arrive on Cybertron, they 'become' the BM Maximals.
8. BM season 1 - 2.

The only query point should be the timescale between BW Megatron stealing the Disk (departing aboard the "Darksyde" at point 1) and him arriving on Cybertron at point 5. That could be a nanosecond, an Earth day, or years.

Basically, the easiest way to think about it is to assume BW Megs fell out of the timetstream and landed on Cybertron after he had left with the Golden Disks and the Maximals intended to land at that time, but a malfunction made them land a few years after. As Leonardo made the time line from BW perspective, here's one from Cybertrons:

1) 300 years after the end of G1, BW megs steals the Golden Disks and leaves. The Axalon pursues. They enter a time warp.

2) The maximal elders begin searching for the missing ships.

3) 1 year after the theft of the Golden Disk (based upon comments from The Agenda pt1) A transwarp wavefront heads towards Cybertron space. The Tripredicus Council prevent the Maximals from detecting it and dispatch Ravage. He isn't heard from again.

4) TM2 Megs falls to Cybertron. He develops his virus and unleashes it.

5) An undisclosed amount of time after, the BW maximals arrive in Cybertron orbit, thinking they are back in their own time. They are shot down and we have BM series 1 and 2.

The only paradox is if TM2 Megs lands before 1). If everything happens this way, there is no problem. Because the Maximals said they arrived when they were supposed to, it leads to the suggestion that 4) happened before 1). This would create the paradox. It's easiest to assume the events happened in the order stated above and the transwarp drive simply malfunctioned, dumping the Maximals a few years after they were meant to arrive.

To answer the original question, BM takes place about 300 hundred and a bit (depending how far off the Maximals were when they arrived back on Cybertron) years from now.
Now everyone go get some paracetimol.

That's essentially what I was saying. As long as TM2 Megatron arrives on Cybertron at some point after BW Megatorn has stolen the Disk and the Darksyde (and, by extension, the Axalon) has departed for space, there shouldn't be any paradox or time screw-ups!

Leonardo wrote:That's essentially what I was saying. As long as TM2 Megatron arrives on Cybertron at some point after BW Megatorn has stolen the Disk and the Darksyde (and, by extension, the Axalon) has departed for space, there shouldn't be any paradox or time screw-ups!

Which is what I said here:

Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

I think we are arguing the same point here. Not the first time I've done that.

Insurgent wrote:

Leonardo wrote:That's essentially what I was saying. As long as TM2 Megatron arrives on Cybertron at some point after BW Megatorn has stolen the Disk and the Darksyde (and, by extension, the Axalon) has departed for space, there shouldn't be any paradox or time screw-ups!

Which is what I said here:

Or Megs returned after the BW had left in the pilot and the other Maximals turned up a few hundred years after they originally left. The last one is the only way everything could happen without completely screwing up time.

I think we are arguing the same point here. Not the first time I've done that.

You're right, we are!

Leonardo wrote: You're right, we are!

D'OH!

Leonardo wrote:Surely, there shouldn't be a paradox at all.

1. BW Megatron steals the Golden Disk and departs aboard the "Darksyde".
2. BW Maximals pursue and we have the events of the first two episodes of BW.
3. BW seasons 1 - 3.
4. The Maximals attempt to take BW Megatron back to Cybertron / return home.
5. BW Megatron escapes and arrives on Cybertron after he stole the Golden Disk but prior to the Maximals' homecoming.
6. BW Megatron becomes BM Megatron by taking over the planet using his virus.
7. The BW Maximals arrive on Cybertron, they 'become' the BM Maximals.
8. BM season 1 - 2.

The only query point should be the timescale between BW Megatron stealing the Disk (departing aboard the "Darksyde" at point 1) and him arriving on Cybertron at point 5. That could be a nanosecond, an Earth day, or years.

Well thats what I always thought happened, but I still stand by my point that stories that involve time travel are for the most part stupid.

actually, tm2 megs could easily have arrived before the golden disk theft. he could have been there for years staging his plot, as long as he implemented it after the events that triggered bw. it's not an issue of when he landed, it's an issue of when he took over. a techincality, perhaps, but a valid point nonetheless.