The Energon Pub

GetterDragun wrote:Who do you think these figures are for? Collectors? It says ages 5 and up. How many 5 year olds are going to read the isntructions? Parents are going to give their kids these figures and they are going to break. The parents will then say that they will not buy this toy again because they break to easily.

I just don't want people to judge TFs in General because they bought a defective BumbleBee or Blackouts arm tabs broke off.

Sure it says "Ages 5 and up" on the package but who's posting on this forum? 5 years olds or collectors? The issues a 5 year old has with the figures wouldn't necessarily be the issues an adult has with the figures. You make it sound like you're fighting for the greater good of the TF line but really it just comes across is being overly critical.

You make a valid point that a 5 year old probably isn't going to use the instructions, and again, who's posting on this forum?. I've heard all the arguments as to why people prefer to transform them without instructions and I'm not here to tell anyone to do it differently, if you prefer to transform them the first time without instructions that's your choice but if it breaks because you didn't follow the instructions you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I'm defending these toys because I think that while some of the complaints I've read on here are very valid and legitimate a lot of them are just whiny fanboys blowing stuff out of proportion.

You guys are scaring people to the point where they're considering returning their brand new figures because you've made them believe that the entire toyline is a bunch of defective, fragile hunks of cracker that will crumble in your hands the moment you touch them. That is not the case.

Oh please if a figure can't be handled by seasoned collectors without breaking do you think you average kid will take better care with the figures?

Greed wrote:Oh please if a figure can't be handled by seasoned collectors without breaking do you think you average kid will take better care with the figures?

But it can be handled by seasoned collectors without breaking. What, you think every single Bumblebee sold in stores has broken? Gimme a break.

Ive been lucky. I can't find any problems with mine.

The answer you're after is this: they are just plastic puke.
Fugly bot modes, poor design, even poorer execution, the list goes on...

I was gonna get Blackout, but from what I've heard I shan't bother. That's another Alternator or two Titaniums.

I planned on getting Deluxe Brawl, but bad things are all I hear.

I really wanted Wreckage, it only seems to be a random QC issue rather than an international problem, so I'll still get him.

That's it really...

The only problem i have with any of the figures i've got so far is Starscreams crappy missile launcer. It's WAAAAAAAYYY too sensitive. Like i said in the Bumblebee thread, the hood had trouble ,at first, holding up. Now he is cool.

So far i've got:

Protoforms Prime & Starscream
Leader Optimus Prime.....which i absolutely love!!!!!
WalMart 2 pack Bumblebee vs. Barricade.......ehhh, they are o.k.
Voyager Starscream......well...he's big?.

If anyone's got any ideas on how to improve on Starscream's Launchers, your insight would be very much appreciated. For now, the missiles are staying in the side-arm holders.

Phenotype wrote:

Greed wrote:Oh please if a figure can't be handled by seasoned collectors without breaking do you think you average kid will take better care with the figures?

But it can be handled by seasoned collectors without breaking. What, you think every single Bumblebee sold in stores has broken? Gimme a break.

What percentage of figures do you think are sold to collectors vs. Children? Who cares about us? I mean your stamtent is that a "Seasoned Collector" *could* have no problmes transforming these figures. But that's not who they are intended for. And yes, even my BumbleBee works, but I had to search through 50 to find the one with the small tab.

GetterDragun wrote:What percentage of figures do you think are sold to collectors vs. Children? Who cares about us? I mean your stamtent is that a "Seasoned Collector" *could* have no problmes transforming these figures. But that's not who they are intended for. And yes, even my BumbleBee works, but I had to search through 50 to find the one with the small tab.

Who cares about us? Who on this board cares about "the children"? You're acting as thought you're championing all of this "for the children" but gimme a break dude, you're just pissed and you're looking to bitch about it. If you want to complain by all means go ahead, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but at least stand up for what you believe instead of hiding behind some crap about the little kiddies because I'm not naive and I know you're not doing all of this just for "the kid's sake".

The only figures that seem to be holding up well are the Real Gear figures, earning them even more Brownie points with me. I ahvent got many movie figures at all, and for now Im glad I decided to wait to slowly buy them 1 or 2 at a time, I am now quite nervous about getting Blackout, and I think I will skip Bumblebee altogether.

My Barricade wants to do the splits, which by itself is not such a bad problem as I can rest him up against other more well designed and made figures, like Cybertron Evac.

The problems, as Mulla said come from rushed production, as well as Hasbro trying to milk every cent of profit they can, by using less paint applications, cheap plastic, bad designers, and overcharging everyone outside the USA (and really for the level of quality these toys are, they are overcharging the USA too).

Its too bad that Hasbro will not learn from this mistake, as they will sell millions upon millions of these toys.

i_amtrunks wrote:The problems, as Mulla said come from rushed production, as well as Hasbro trying to milk every cent of profit they can, by using less paint applications, cheap plastic, bad designers, and overcharging everyone outside the USA (and really for the level of quality these toys are, they are overcharging the USA too).

Less paint applications? Maybe, sitting next to my Energon and Cybertron figures they certainly do seem less colorful but I'm not exactly sure they have less paint applications. The vehicles are real so they have realistic color schemes, not Energon's 700-colors-blind-me-like-the-sun paint schemes.

Cheap plastic? Jesus, that's like the fanboy's motto, "this plastic feels cheap". It feels cheap? Maybe the reason it feels cheap is because a lot of these figures are not blockformers like so many figures from the past 3 lines and since they have thinner and more delicate parts you guys automatically assume it's "cheap plastic". I guess when you're trying to transform these things with big thick ham fingers they might seem really fragile.

Bad designers? Where do you get that from? Did they contract out 10 year olds from Malaysia just for this toyline? I know, maybe Aaron Archer let his kids design this line. :/ I'm sure they used to same people they've been using.

Ohh i have jazz, barricade, ratchet and blackout. no problems so far, of course i transform them once or twice, then leave them in bot mode for dipslays.

Oh, i dont care much for frenzy and scorponok, but i can repaint those myself, like on the bck of the boxes!

I don't think it's the plastic, either. There certainly are more thin pieces of plastic on the movie toys in general, but I pretty sure that's due to the design, not a lack of quality.

If there is any problem at all inherent in the movie designs, it's the complexity of taking the live action concepts down to an even serviceable plastic facsimile. I think that Hasbro probably designed the automorph feature for this line because they couldn't find a way to make the figures even close to workable by 7 year old consumers otherwise.

Whether you're a fan of the movie designs or not, they are revolutionary concepts in how our beloved bots can transform. With such a radical departure from the norm, there are going to be some issues that no one in toy development has foreseen.

Phenotype wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:What percentage of figures do you think are sold to collectors vs. Children? Who cares about us? I mean your stamtent is that a "Seasoned Collector" *could* have no problmes transforming these figures. But that's not who they are intended for. And yes, even my BumbleBee works, but I had to search through 50 to find the one with the small tab.

Who cares about us? Who on this board cares about "the children"? You're acting as thought you're championing all of this "for the children" but gimme a break dude, you're just pissed and you're looking to bitch about it. If you want to complain by all means go ahead, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but at least stand up for what you believe instead of hiding behind some crap about the little kiddies because I'm not naive and I know you're not doing all of this just for "the kid's sake".

Ha! Ha! You're the one who thinks a "seasoned collector" is who these toys are for. Stop kidding yourself, these are meant for people ages 5-12, we're just in it for the nostalgia. And I am saying what I believe, that toys are meant for kids and transformers popularity is do to kids still buying it. My concern is that if people buying them for their intended audience (again, not the "seasoned collector" aka "raison d'etre c'est les jouets") find them breaking, maybe sales will decrease, leaving us Afficionados (maybe Master Collector should change their name), with no Transformers.

And the point is, G1 toys are still around and in good shape. What will happen to movie figures?

Asderiphel wrote:I don't think it's the plastic, either. There certainly are more thin pieces of plastic on the movie toys in general, but I pretty sure that's due to the design, not a lack of quality.

If there is any problem at all inherent in the movie designs, it's the complexity of taking the live action concepts down to an even serviceable plastic facsimile. I think that Hasbro probably designed the automorph feature for this line because they couldn't find a way to make the figures even close to workable by 7 year old consumers otherwise.

Whether you're a fan of the movie designs or not, they are revolutionary concepts in how our beloved bots can transform. With such a radical departure from the norm, there are going to be some issues that no one in toy development has foreseen.

Agreed, my point isn't really plasitc quality as much as design.

When I transform Barricade, I can't help but feel I'm transforming a model car, I won't even move the side windows up like in the pictures just because the plastic doesn't look like it would hold up too much without breaking.

GetterDragun wrote:Ha! Ha! You're the one who thinks a "seasoned collector" is who these toys are for. Stop kidding yourself, these are meant for people ages 5-12, we're just in it for the nostalgia.

Now that's just stupid, I never said I thought these toys were for collectors, you're missing my point entirely.

My concern is that if people buying them for their intended audience (again, not the "seasoned collector" aka "raison d'etre c'est les jouets") find them breaking, maybe sales will decrease, leaving us Afficionados (maybe Master Collector should change their name), with no Transformers.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. This was my entire point, you don't care about "the children", you just care about how this could potentially affect you as a collector. That's fine, I don't care about the children either, but stop dancing around the issue and acting like you actually give a crap how poor little johnny feels when his Bumblebee breaks. You care how this will affect you.

GetterDragun wrote:My concern is that if people buying them for their intended audience (again, not the "seasoned collector" aka "raison d'etre c'est les jouets") find them breaking, maybe sales will decrease, leaving us Afficionados (maybe Master Collector should change their name), with no Transformers.

And the point is, G1 toys are still around and in good shape. What will happen to movie figures?

Worst case scenario, based on the reports, is that Hasbro has to issue a recall on the BB because the broken tabs would constitute a hazard. I haven't seen a consistent complaint as strong as the BB (though, there sure are a bunch of complaints out there) to indicate that another figure has such a widespread malfunction. With a couple exceptions, the vast majority of complaints comes from the "I don't like
this" camp as opposed to "this is broke" camp.

People don't like Brawl's shoulder, or Wreckage's shoulders, but while the design may limit play value to some degree, there's really nothing wrong with either figure. It's a matter of preference.

I do think the vast majority of the movie toys will be consumed by the younger crowd, and end up in scrap piles and backyards all over come this time next year. But unless the movie is a total tank job (which it won't be) OR movie BB's start firing ragged projectiles into the eyes of 7yr old kids worldwide, I think we'll be fine.

Phenotype wrote:Ah, now we're getting somewhere. This was my entire point, you don't care about "the children", you just care about how this could potentially affect you as a collector. That's fine, I don't care about the children either, but stop dancing around the issue and acting like you actually give a crap how poor little johnny feels when his Bumblebee breaks. You care how this will affect you.

I spent 10 bucks on a Bumblebee figure my visiting nephew picked-out at Toys R Us and had me transform when we got home. The button wouldn't release the front no matter how hard I pushed on it and when I apllied pressure the tab broke and now the front of the car mode is crumpled. Thankfully he doesn't seem too bothered by it because he's only 5 and I also got him a Classics Cliffjumper (which he prefers), but if he were a year or two older and actually cared that the front looks like it hit a tree I'd be twice as pissed. As it is he's lost interest in it anyway and is out in the living room playing with his Classics figures and Bionicles. I got him a fast-action Ironhide, too, and he's also lost interest in that one because the arms don't have elbows and the roof of the truck keeps pops off every time he picks it up.

If I were a parent I can't say I'd be happy at all with the line and it's really given me second thoughts about picking-up Brawl and Bonecrusher for myself.

I am so frustrated with my Ironhide. The automorph on the leg feels so fragile and the waist keeps on clicking off whenever I move the the arms. And to make it worst I got the variant without the bluepiping... argh... I hate my ironhide figure Imma go return it for starscream.

Phenotype wrote:

GetterDragun wrote:Ha! Ha! You're the one who thinks a "seasoned collector" is who these toys are for. Stop kidding yourself, these are meant for people ages 5-12, we're just in it for the nostalgia.

Now that's just stupid, I never said I thought these toys were for collectors, you're missing my point entirely.

My concern is that if people buying them for their intended audience (again, not the "seasoned collector" aka "raison d'etre c'est les jouets") find them breaking, maybe sales will decrease, leaving us Afficionados (maybe Master Collector should change their name), with no Transformers.

Ah, now we're getting somewhere. This was my entire point, you don't care about "the children", you just care about how this could potentially affect you as a collector. That's fine, I don't care about the children either, but stop dancing around the issue and acting like you actually give a crap how poor little johnny feels when his Bumblebee breaks. You care how this will affect you.

Um, no. It doesn't effect me one way or the other because I buy two of everything so I'll always have one sealed in the box and I usually only Transform my figures like two times before putting them back in the box regardless. I buy everything that Hasbro puts out, good or bad. What does effect me is the sense of nostalgia I have with Transformers and I would like to see it carry on, and the driving force behind that is kids. And I won't be buying these for my cousin who is turning 11 as I would feel silly buying him something that could potentially break. You know what they say, it takes a 100 rights to make a reputation, but one wrong to ruin it.

AbsumZer0 wrote:

Phenotype wrote:Ah, now we're getting somewhere. This was my entire point, you don't care about "the children", you just care about how this could potentially affect you as a collector. That's fine, I don't care about the children either, but stop dancing around the issue and acting like you actually give a crap how poor little johnny feels when his Bumblebee breaks. You care how this will affect you.

I spent 10 bucks on a Bumblebee figure my visiting nephew picked-out at Toys R Us and had me transform when we got home. The button wouldn't release the front no matter how hard I pushed on it and when I apllied pressure the tab broke and now the front of the car mode is crumpled. Thankfully he doesn't seem too bothered by it because he's only 5 and I also got him a Classics Cliffjumper (which he prefers), but if he were a year or two older and actually cared that the front looks like it hit a tree I'd be twice as pissed. As it is he's lost interest in it anyway and is out in the living room playing with his Classics figures and Bionicles. I got him a fast-action Ironhide, too, and he's also lost interest in that one because the arms don't have elbows and the roof of the truck keeps pops off every time he picks it up.

If I were a parent I can't say I'd be happy at all with the line and it's really given me second thoughts about picking-up Brawl and Bonecrusher for myself.

Thank you. This is what I mean.

I'm with you Getter,

Transformers has carried on so long because of the fond memories of the people who had them as kids, those people then are more likely to get those toys for their children...

But if all the movie toys keep breaking a) children will be less likely to stay intrested in them (as shown by AbsumZer0) or b) Parents will stop buying them for their kids because they don't wan to waste their money.

Lets face it, even though we all know that TF's have been going strong for 20 years, this movie line is the first one to get 'mainstream' exposure since G1 ended...
If the QC problem put enough people off and they don't sell, well guess what, Hasbro isn't going to continue a line that they can't sell to kids (yes alternators and titaniums do appeal to kids so don't try to use that arguement)

Bun-Bun wrote:I'm with you Getter,

Transformers has carried on so long because of the fond memories of the people who had them as kids, those people then are more likely to get those toys for their children...

But if all the movie toys keep breaking a) children will be less likely to stay intrested in them (as shown by AbsumZer0) or b) Parents will stop buying them for their kids because they don't wan to waste their money.

Lets face it, even though we all know that TF's have been going strong for 20 years, this movie line is the first one to get 'mainstream' exposure since G1 ended...
If the QC problem put enough people off and they don't sell, well guess what, Hasbro isn't going to continue a line that they can't sell to kids (yes alternators and titaniums do appeal to kids so don't try to use that arguement)

IF QC was going to be the death knell of TF's, then TF's would have died a long time ago. The first release of Titaniums...come on, the megatron is a complete pile and I've seen a couple Optimus broken in the box. And I don't know what Alternators you own, but the Meister I bought would drop both doors and an arm if you looked at him funny, my Shockblast never could keep his head on, and my Camshaft had two left hands. As for play value, I don't see how a kid could come close to 'playing' with an Alt. As for G1...Jumpstarters, anybody? Duocons? Runabout? Deluxe Insecticon Barrage?

I agree that this line is getting more exposure than any line since G1, but there is only two consistent breakage reports (with Bumblebee beating Blackout by a wide margin) only one of which seems unavoidable out of the box. There might even be a recall on the BB. But the vast majority of the movie related toys are fine.

In the rush for production leading up to the movie debut, there have been allot of QT issues and certain design issues, of which Hasbro will be correcting over the course of the year. Remember though, that the finalized concepts of these robots and their forms were not completed until almost up to the final days of shooting, even then they were still making revisions on what the bots heads and faces were to look like in this movie. I don't doubt that as we move ahead closer to the Xmas season we will have a correct and accurate depiction of BB in the 1970s Camaro, and the QT issues and design flaws will have been worked out to a better degree.. that means the first wave is gonna be like the hottest rare item ever!! but I'm looking forward to the re released fixed stuff, like 2008 BB, and so on..I just hope they reworked Ultimate BB and made his chest closer to what it was supposed to be..

As of right now i have RV Prime, Barricade, Jazz, Bonecrusher, Booster, zoom out, And the small Barricade. The only Problems i have are with Barricade. His left foot wont lock into place. Alot of these figures have design flaws from the plastic to plasment of parts. Such as Barricades weak windows to Ironhides thin waist connector. But so far i like this line. Barricade and Ironhide are two of my favorite figures. They are complex and look great.Jazz kicks ass to. But if you want to play it safe then buy the Real Gear guys because they seem to be made better than the rest. And maybe hsbro will fix these problems with later releases. But if your like most Transfans you'll buy them anyway. Hell if you break it send it back to hasbro they'll send you a new one.