>
shop.seibertron.com amazon.seibertron.com Facebook Twitter X YouTube Pinterest Instagram Myspace LinkedIn Patreon Podcast RSS
This page runs on affiliate links — your clicks may earn us a few Shanix. Want the full transmission? Roll out to our Affiliate Disclosure.

Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Welcome to the General Discussion area where just about anything goes! This area is designed to discuss all matters and does not necessarily have to be Transformers related. Please keep topics relevant.

Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:02 am

Motto: "Continue building from within,attack your designated target,defend everyone."
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
Heya.

Was helping someone with English Homework the other day- the question came up as to why Dough and Tough are both spelled with 'gh' but are sounded differently.

I promised I'd try to find out.

My assumption is that they come from differing root languages but the sound was somehow grouped into the same spelling by the academics of the time, tho it occured to me that it's just as likely that they were originally pronounced the same but were changed over time with the evolution of topical dialects.

My guess is that perhaps Gaelic or Celtic play a role in the origins tho my education on these languages is severely stunted, and I realized I wasn't taught at all about Welsh in Australia where I grew up. Of course English also consists of Angle,Saxon and Jute, Norse/Nordic/Northern European Group of Languages (respectfully),Germanic, French...and plenty I don't even know have a seperate identity and history or have forgotten right now (again: Respectfully).

Is there anyone who can provide me with insights based on their own knowledge from their Pre-English native tongue(s)? I'm actually really curious now about the root, now... and there's a group of English Teachers also waiting to learn the result out of curiosity. (LOL)

Thanks to ALL.
"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away."
-my Wife
G1 Smoketreader
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:54 am
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 8
Rank: 10+
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 8

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:08 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
I'm going to cheat (:P) and use my Uni access to the OED Online, which I recommend for any kind of etymological need!

Dough - Etymology: A Common Germanic n.: Old English dáh, genitive dáges, = Old Frisian deeg, Dutch deg, Old High German, Middle High German teic, German teig, Old Norse deig, (Swedish deg, Danish deig, dei), Gothic daigs < Old Germanic *daigoz, < verbal stem dig-, deig-, pre-Germanic *dhigh- to form of clay, to knead: compare Sanskrit dih- to besmear, Latin fig-, fingĕre; compare Greek τεῖχος wall.

Tough - Etymology: Old English tóh < *tǫnh < *tanh, Old Germanic *taŋχu-z; North Frisian toch, tuch. From an Old Germanic stem *taŋχ-, taŋg-, whence Old English ge-tęnge. Compare (with ending of -ja declension) Old Saxon *tâhi (Middle Low German tâ, tei, Low German taa, tage, tau, Dutch taai); Old High German zâhi (Middle Low German zâhe, zæhe, zæch, German zähe, zäh)

The pronunciation for tough seems to remain pretty much unvaried, and looking very close to present-day glottals in Dutch 'g' and Scots 'ch'. The switch to a softer sound appears as of the 17th century in Middle English.
As for dough, again it's arounf C17 that the sound changes to the almost invisible present-day pronunciation. Similar to 'way' and 'day', tough. There is still a U.S. and British regional version of 'duff', meaning backside, which relates back to 'dough'.
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:28 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
As an afterthought, I would recommend the amazingly well written Cambridge Encyclopedia of English Language (2nd Edition) by David Crystal, and most of his other books, really.
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby G1 Smoketreader » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:02 am

Motto: "Continue building from within,attack your designated target,defend everyone."
Weapon: Double-Barreled, Armor-Piercing Particle Beam Cann...
That's phenomenal Va'al! Thank you very, very much! :grin:
"Everyone has a hobby.Even people who say they don't still have one under another name.If we're sick,injured, we still go to it and get down to see how it is.If it needs something, we bring it,make sure the attention is perfect.It exercises our care and protection and gives us back philosophies.It's a living thing to us,and is the most perfect way to teach a young person how to be towards a living thing. It's something that should never be taken away."
-my Wife
G1 Smoketreader
Headmaster Jr
Posts: 578
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:54 am
Strength: 10
Intelligence: 8
Speed: 8
Endurance: 8
Rank: 10+
Courage: 9
Firepower: 9
Skill: 8

Re: Requesting insight on 'gh' sound in pre English languages of British Isles (Homework matter).

Postby Va'al » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:26 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
A pleasure!

Nice to see my degree can be used somewhere.
(On a forum about giant robots and their plastic redition. But still!)
User avatar
Va'al
God Of Transformers
Posts: 17010
News Credits: 6188
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:00 pm
Location: Italy
Buy from Va'al on eBay


Return to General Discussion


[ Incoming message. Source unknown. ] No Signal - Please Stand By [ Click to attempt signal recovery... ]


Transformers and More @ The Seibertron Store

Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #1 Cvr C Dark Horse Comics JUN241137 1C MOTU TMNT Ziritt"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #1 Cvr B Dark Horse Comics JUN241136 1B MOTU TMNT (CA)Sakai"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #1 Cvr A Dark Horse Comics 2024 JUN241135 1A MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #2 Cvr C Dark Horse Comics 2024 JUL241092 2C MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #4 Cvr A Dark Horse Comics 2025 OCT241122 4A MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #4 Cvr B Dark Horse Comics 2025 OCT241123 4B MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #2 Cvr B Dark Horse Comics 2024 JUL241091 2B MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "USAGI YOJIMBO #23 IDW Comics 2021 AUG210593 (W/A/CA) Sakai"
NEW!
USAGI YOJIMBO #23 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #3 Cvr C Dark Horse Comics 2025 SEP241199 3C MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #3 Cvr A Dark Horse Comics 2025 SEP241197 3A MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TMNT Saturday Morning Adv ENDLESS SUMMER Cvr A IDW Comics 2023 JUN231427 Tango"
NEW!
TMNT Saturday Morn ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "TURTLES OF GRAYSKULL #3 Cvr B Dark Horse Comics 2025 SEP241198 3B MOTU TMNT"
NEW!
TURTLES OF GRAYSKU ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "USAGI YOJIMBO #26 IDW Comics 2022 DEC210550 (W/A/CA) Sakai"
NEW!
USAGI YOJIMBO #26 ...
Visit shop.seibertron.com to buy "GARGOYLES DARK AGES #2 Cvr F action figure Dynamite Comics JUN230665 2F (CA)Moss"
NEW!
GARGOYLES DARK AGE ...
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.

Featured Products on Amazon.com

Buy "Transformers MPM-03 Movie 10th Anniversary Figure Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Authentics Optimus Prime" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Attacker 15 Bania Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Authentics Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Voyager Class Elita-1" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Dinobot Snarl" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Titans Return Repugnus, Dastard, and Solus Prime Prime Master" on AMAZON
Buy "Masterpiece MPM-7 Bumblebee" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Bumblebee -- Energon Igniters Power Series Megatron" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Soundwave Action Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers Generations Combiner Wars Legends Class Protectobot Groove Figure" on AMAZON
Buy "Transformers: Generations Power of The Primes Deluxe Class Autobot Jazz" on AMAZON
These are affiliate links. We may earn a commission.
Details subject to change. See listing for latest price and availability.